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Flawless books?

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    Alchemist449Alchemist449 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Ummm...It doesn't have enough flaws?

    Alchemist449 on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2007
    I can't really think of anything bad to say about To Kill a Mockingbird.

    I'm sure somebody here will, though.

    Cue Moniker. The dude has no mercy.

    Irond Will on
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    Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    I can't really think of anything bad to say about To Kill a Mockingbird.

    I'm sure somebody here will, though.

    Cue Moniker. The dude has no mercy.

    Yes, well, I knew I was in for trouble when people here started ragging on Huck Finn.

    Target Practice on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    I can't really think of anything bad to say about To Kill a Mockingbird.

    I'm sure somebody here will, though.

    Cue Moniker. The dude has no mercy.

    Yes, well, I knew I was in for trouble when people here started ragging on Huck Finn.

    I agree with you on To Kill A Mockingbird, though. It was a great book, and anyone who takes issue with its sense of place and pacing is foolish.

    Irond Will on
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    TheBogTheBog Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I'm not as experienced in books as I'd like to be, but from what I've read

    1984 is flawless, and so is
    Slaughterhouse 5, and
    A Farewell to Arms.

    Well I super-enjoyed all of those.

    TheBog on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    I can't really think of anything bad to say about To Kill a Mockingbird.

    I'm sure somebody here will, though.

    Cue Moniker. The dude has no mercy.

    Yes, well, I knew I was in for trouble when people here started ragging on Huck Finn.

    I agree with you on To Kill A Mockingbird, though. It was a great book, and anyone who takes issue with its sense of place and pacing is foolish.

    Fuck you too, buddy.
    :P

    moniker on
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    Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    kaz67 wrote: »
    I consider The Death of Ivan Ilych to be the perfect short story.
    So true. I hated it the first time I read it, but over time I've come to appreciate it for the masterpiece it really is.

    On technical merits, I'd say that MZD's Only Revolutions is nearly perfect. The narration and story itself is terrible, but the way the whole novel is designed and structured is really amazing.

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    MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Big Dookie wrote: »
    kaz67 wrote: »
    I consider The Death of Ivan Ilych to be the perfect short story.
    So true. I hated it the first time I read it, but over time I've come to appreciate it for the masterpiece it really is.

    My hatred of that story has only deepened on subsequent readings. If I wanted a sermon, I'd go to church.

    MrMister on
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    The problem with To Kill a Mockingbird is that most people are forced to read it in school, which is a quick way to ruin any good book.

    Unrelated note: I think The Maltese Falcon belongs in here somewhere. Anyone agree?

    Daedalus on
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Savant wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    ege02 wrote: »
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    R.A. Salvatore - The Leged of Drizzit compliation.

    Dark Elf Trilogy, and Icewind Dale Trilogy, to be exact.

    The rest are meh.

    O_o

    Uh. Yeah, ok.

    I wanna nominate Stephen King's something or other, but there's bits that suck in those. The Gunslinger is pretty amazing.

    The Drawing of the Three was pure awesome. I think that was the best of the Dark Tower series because he fleshed out some interaction with the 'real world', but it was still very fresh at that point. It also had the nice random oh shit moment at the beginning which created an issue to drive the rest of the story.
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    The thing about The Gunslinger is that is flows like oil. Like, I don't think I've ever read anything so smooth, ever.

    I am referring to the original version.

    the Dark Tower series in itself could be close to perfection if half of book five and books six and seven hadn't taken a bath in idiotic, lazy shit.

    I like the revised better myself. Book five took a trip to boring town, but I don't get people's biffs with six and seven. I thought they were amazing.

    He lost his focus for most of the last books, and did the horrible trick of including himself without accomplishing much at all with it. Algul Siento was pretty good, but the final battle was just stupid.

    And he gave a ditribe against the true ending, when the true ending was completely fitting to the story of the Gunslinger before it started going astray in book 5. It seems to me like he had come up with that ending before he came up with a bunch of the useless stuff in the last few books, but couldn't throw it away even though he didn't like it.

    Disagree, but whatever.

    SniperGuy on
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    MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    The problem with To Kill a Mockingbird is that most people are forced to read it in school, which is a quick way to ruin any good book.

    I think this is even more true of poetry. People get the idea that they need to be able to say something smart about art in order to legitimately enjoy it, which is utterly and catagorically false.

    MrMister on
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    JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Guys.

    All Quiet on the Western Front by Enrich Maria Remarque is a flawless book.

    Why has no one mentioned it yet?

    James on
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    liquidloganliquidlogan Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    MrMister wrote: »
    The problem with To Kill a Mockingbird is that most people are forced to read it in school, which is a quick way to ruin any good book.

    I think this is even more true of poetry. People get the idea that they need to be able to say something smart about art in order to legitimately enjoy it, which is utterly and catagorically false.

    This has single handedly killed poetry for me and is party of the reason I refuse to continue studying it at length in university. Seriously. We end up over analyzing these poems so much that it ruins them for me. I can never look at John Donne the same way again.

    liquidlogan on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I propose The Hobbit
    Have you read that recently? Because it is really kinda poorly written. I started a job editing recently, and reading The Hobbit makes me want to cry now, because I see all the stupid shit he did that is so bad.

    deadonthestreet on
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    Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Jameserson wrote: »
    Guys.

    All Quiet on the Western Front by Enrich Maria Remarque is a flawless book.

    Why has no one mentioned it yet?
    You know, I really think you're on to something.

    Grid System on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I'll vote for The Old Man and the Sea

    deadonthestreet on
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    CrimsonKingCrimsonKing Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    My opinion on the Dark Tower, spoilers.
    There are a few things you do not do:
    Include massive tie ins and build up in almost ALL your other works to a certain series of novels. Have these tie-ins and build up be verified by virtue of the fact that it fits, makes sense and generally makes the series they tie into more enjoyable to read. Then COMPLETELY DISMISS ALL OF IT (atleast five books worth of tie-ins and background) EXCEPT FOR ONE THING in the span of one fucking page.

    You do not build up a certain villain to be the hottest shit since sliced bread, almost omnipotent and specify his location eighteen hundred times then FUCK UP HIS LOCATION AND TURN HIM INTO AN OLD GEEZER THROWING SNEETCHES

    CrimsonKing on
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    MrMister wrote: »
    The problem with To Kill a Mockingbird is that most people are forced to read it in school, which is a quick way to ruin any good book.

    I think this is even more true of poetry. People get the idea that they need to be able to say something smart about art in order to legitimately enjoy it, which is utterly and catagorically false.

    This has single handedly killed poetry for me and is party of the reason I refuse to continue studying it at length in university. Seriously. We end up over analyzing these poems so much that it ruins them for me. I can never look at John Donne the same way again.

    Ugh. I remember being forced to write ten pages on a single paragraph from some novel. Went against everything I believed in. It wasn't even my major, I just had to take some English class for "general education credit". Groan.

    Daedalus on
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    CrimsonKingCrimsonKing Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I propose The Hobbit
    Have you read that recently? Because it is really kinda poorly written. I started a job editing recently, and reading The Hobbit makes me want to cry now, because I see all the stupid shit he did that is so bad.

    I've read The Hobbit at least fifty times in my life. It being the first book I ever read, I don't think I can look at it critically.

    CrimsonKing on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I propose The Hobbit
    Have you read that recently? Because it is really kinda poorly written. I started a job editing recently, and reading The Hobbit makes me want to cry now, because I see all the stupid shit he did that is so bad.

    I've read The Hobbit at least fifty times in my life. It being the first book I ever read, I don't think I can look at it critically.
    Oh my, if only I had the time to tell you that tale. But there is no time now, for I must tell you how he got out of there. And as you have already guessed, he did indeed get out of it. And now I will tell you how.

    Shit like that all over the place.

    deadonthestreet on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2007
    MrMister wrote: »
    The problem with To Kill a Mockingbird is that most people are forced to read it in school, which is a quick way to ruin any good book.

    I think this is even more true of poetry. People get the idea that they need to be able to say something smart about art in order to legitimately enjoy it, which is utterly and catagorically false.

    That is an insightful thing you said, MrMr. I've not thought of it like that before.

    Though I think also that there's a kind of appreciation surrounding the context and studied interpretation of art as well. I'm not really sure - I'll have to think about it a little.

    Irond Will on
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    arod_77arod_77 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Similar issues occured in Lord of the Rings-but I actually loved it for that, it was like being in a dream when I read those books.

    arod_77 on
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    CrimsonKingCrimsonKing Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    You do know it is meant for kids right, as in something Grandpa Tolkien would be reading to his kids, or grandkids. In that light, shit like that sort of makes sense.

    I still enjoy it.

    EDIT:
    Also what arod_77 said

    CrimsonKing on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Oh yeah I totally love it.

    But it isn't in any way perfect.

    deadonthestreet on
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    Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I don't know about flawless

    but I really love the book Recursion by Tony Ballyntine.

    Oh, and how could I forget Atlanta Nights, which is perfect in its own special manner. Or check out the wiki.

    Apothe0sis on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will on
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    JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »

    Will are you in the right thread?

    James on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2007
    No I am not. Thanks.

    Irond Will on
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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Heroes Die by Mathew Woodring Stover. Perfect blend of dystopian sci-fi and sword and sorcory fantasy.

    Bloods End on
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    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Gatsby! Gatsby!

    On another note, Heart of Darkness has my vote for the most beautiful - perhaps flawless, but probably not - piece of prose ever written. Structurally it is a masterpiece. Technically it was a breakthrough, and remains fresh to this day. Philosophically it is profound, and difficult to surpass.

    bsjezz on
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    TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Flawless is difficult to define, if we're going to have any books that meet the criteria.

    I'd say The Mote in God's Eye is worth a mention, at least for science fiction.

    Somebody mentioned Frankenstein- I'd have to vote against it. I can't stand it when characters who are supposed to be geniuses act like morons.

    If we're doing kid's books, how about Maniac Magee?

    Tarantio on
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    MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I'd say The Mote in God's Eye is worth a mention, at least for science fiction.

    Perhaps if you turn a blind eye to the heavily misogynistic undertones.

    Ringworld was also pretty good, with the same caveat.

    MrMister on
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    BlightBlight Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman.

    I've read all the sci-fi classics but something about this one just clicked. Maybe its the Vietnam war comparisons that carry oh so well over to the Iraq war? It is similar to Enders Game in that it can be deep on some levels, and simple action on others.

    And ya, Dune's a given.

    Blight on
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    Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Pale Blue Dot

    Loren Michael on
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    KincaidKincaid You're standing on my neck KuwaitRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Flowers for Algernon

    Kincaid on
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    TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    MrMister wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I'd say The Mote in God's Eye is worth a mention, at least for science fiction.

    Perhaps if you turn a blind eye to the heavily misogynistic undertones.

    Ringworld was also pretty good, with the same caveat.

    Man, I must not have been paying very close attention. I guess I don't doubt it.

    Tarantio on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    The correct answer to this thread is Dante's commedia in its original Tuscan.

    Podly on
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    JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Podly wrote: »
    The correct answer to this thread is Dante's commedia in its original Tuscan.

    I have to agree, though I've only read the first part.

    It was in english, but it was a good translation.

    James on
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    PataPata Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Kincaid wrote: »
    Flowers for Algernon

    Oh crap here come the tears. :cry:

    Pata on
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    FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    Salinger's Catcher in the Rye always resonated with me for whatever reason. I realize in it's own right it's a teenage angst novel - but it still seems to transcend that genre into the classics range.

    Worst. Book. Ever.

    I recently went through a few "classics". Catch 22, 1984, Catcher in the Rye... Most were deserving...The latter is the only book that made me physically angry. Least likeable, least identifiable character I've ever come across. I found myself in the perverse situation of finishing the damn thing just to validate my hatred of it... Just in case it had a cool twist or something.

    I'm not having a go at anyone that liked it - in fact its hard to have such a strong reaction and not realise that it must have struck a chord with me personally... But god damn. Even having the book on my shelf... I get some kind of base emotive Pavlovian response... I have to surround it with other books I dont like, lest the taint spread.

    [/rant]

    Fallingman on
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