The reason BOS is in here is because Bethesda can't make compelling factions, I think
There's no reason the brotherhood would be the only piece of the US military to survive, and it would be a lot more interesting if Bethesda came up with something like the brotherhood but with a totally different outlook and backstory
but I continue to be confused as to why there aren't any NPCs in the game anyway, there are so many design decisions about this thing that confuse me
Each new piece of info just disappoints me more. I'm trying to take the approach of at least being glad for the people who like the multi aspect but it's hard to even do that when B is playing lazyball with lore design, because the longer term implication is "it's canon as of 76 so that's how it'll be for Fallout 5"
+3
Sir CarcassI have been shown the end of my worldRound Rock, TXRegistered Userregular
The reason BOS is in here is because Bethesda can't make compelling factions, I think
There's no reason the brotherhood would be the only piece of the US military to survive, and it would be a lot more interesting if Bethesda came up with something like the brotherhood but with a totally different outlook and backstory
but I continue to be confused as to why there aren't any NPCs in the game anyway, there are so many design decisions about this thing that confuse me
They also confirmed the Enclave is another faction present in Fallout 76. I'm not sure if the Enclave would have been active at that time since I believe they were still on their oil rig, but they're slightly more plausible being there, I guess.
The reason BOS is in here is because Bethesda can't make compelling factions, I think
There's no reason the brotherhood would be the only piece of the US military to survive, and it would be a lot more interesting if Bethesda came up with something like the brotherhood but with a totally different outlook and backstory
but I continue to be confused as to why there aren't any NPCs in the game anyway, there are so many design decisions about this thing that confuse me
The lack of quest NPCs I attribute to money. I mean I guess I can't really fault them over much for that choice all things considered. However the lack of human enemy types is really weird.
I mean hell they could have had generic Raiders, Cannibal Hillbillies (it is freaking post-apoc Appalachia), maybe even a group of power armor wearing tribals descended from a nearby US Army base.
I'm gonna take a guess here and say that the Enclave is also out and about too. I mean, like BoS I fully expect to see Enclave references and not actual Enclave soldiers.
Ugh, man, there are gonna be Institute references too aren't there? I can feel it.
edit- @Sir Carcass Sonavabitch, I posted my Enclave guess before I saw your post. Man, Bethesda, try being original.
edit 2- In regards to the Enclave IIRC they had the Oil Rig in the west and the bunker in the east at the same time. Or at least I'm pretty sure both were operational at the same time.
edit 3- The answer is technically yes. Raven Rock existed and I guess was home to Eden who made contact with the Enclave in the west then had them relocate to his base after they lost the Oil Rig.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Uh, excuse you, the Atom Cats are the single most compelling faction in all of video games.
Just wanna hang out, listen to music, and trick out their dope power armor.
The Atom Cats were a source of significant disappointment for me, because I agree with you that they seemed pretty damned awesome and yet... fucking nothing done with them.
They are pretty much a signpost for the entire Fallout 76 experience I imagine.
Uh, excuse you, the Atom Cats are the single most compelling faction in all of video games.
Just wanna hang out, listen to music, and trick out their dope power armor.
The Atom Cats were a source of significant disappointment for me, because I agree with you that they seemed pretty damned awesome and yet... fucking nothing done with them.
They are pretty much a signpost for the entire Fallout 76 experience I imagine.
The Atom Cats are a signpost for how Bethesda does factions in general in Fallout so far: Good imagery but then shallow or badly written. They need to have some of the people that work on Elder Scrolls lore work on their original Fallout factions. Even some of the minor ES groups like the Cult of the Worm, Camona Tong, and Khajit caravans have more nuance than their Fallout factions to say nothing of major groups like the Dark Brotherhood, Tribunal Temple, or Morag Tong.
I still fundamentally don't understand the point of 76.
It's like, okay, Bethesda, you're good at making interesting sandboxes. That doesn't mean you get to strip out literally everything else.
Well, the one thing everyone agreed on about 4 was that the main story was irrelevant at best. So instead of trying to find a way to make a compelling story that also is compatible with an open world, they just skipped it.
Also, it should be pointed out that mentions of a faction are different than members od a faction being present.
Fencingsax on
+1
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I still fundamentally don't understand the point of 76.
It's like, okay, Bethesda, you're good at making interesting sandboxes. That doesn't mean you get to strip out literally everything else.
Well, the one thing everyone agreed on about 4 was that the main story was irrelevant at best. So instead of trying to find a way to make a compelling story that also is compatible with an open world, they just skipped it.
Also, it should be pointed out that mentions of a faction are different than members od a faction being present.
I don't think anyone is really asking for a main story, just good side quests.
I mean yeah the main story was bleh, but there were a bunch of really well done side quests.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
+2
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I still fundamentally don't understand the point of 76.
It's like, okay, Bethesda, you're good at making interesting sandboxes. That doesn't mean you get to strip out literally everything else.
Well, the one thing everyone agreed on about 4 was that the main story was irrelevant at best. So instead of trying to find a way to make a compelling story that also is compatible with an open world, they just skipped it.
Also, it should be pointed out that mentions of a faction are different than members od a faction being present.
I don't think anyone is really asking for a main story, just good side quests.
I mean yeah the main story was bleh, but there were a bunch of really well done side quests.
It seems like sidequests are still in. With everyone being dead I don't know how compelling they are, but we'll see.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
No there are radiant quests handed out by robots.
Not the same thing.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
The reasoning I heard for getting rid of any human npcs and enemies, is that they want you to instantly know when see a player.
So you are still apparently getting quests, it's just from audio logs of dead people now.
Which just seems odd to me.
+2
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I mean, how to handle NPCs or the lack thereof was a losing battle no matter how Bethesda chose to do it. Back when people would talk about wanting an online version of Fallout, the biggest objection used was that the world was supposed to be sparsely populated after the bombs fall. So here we are in 76 with the bombs being freshly dropped, Bethesda said there won't be any NPCs because why the hell would anyone be setup just fine and dandy out where the shit happened, and people are... not happy.
I don't blame Bethesda on this, I blame players of the series. The more rabid, the more blame.
+4
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
I still fundamentally don't understand the point of 76.
It's like, okay, Bethesda, you're good at making interesting sandboxes. That doesn't mean you get to strip out literally everything else.
Well, the one thing everyone agreed on about 4 was that the main story was irrelevant at best. So instead of trying to find a way to make a compelling story that also is compatible with an open world, they just skipped it.
Also, it should be pointed out that mentions of a faction are different than members od a faction being present.
I don't think anyone is really asking for a main story, just good side quests.
I mean yeah the main story was bleh, but there were a bunch of really well done side quests.
It seems like sidequests are still in. With everyone being dead I don't know how compelling they are, but we'll see.
It all depends on the writing.
The Survivalist's tale in Honest Hearts was told only in scattered computer logs and notes and it was one of the best stories in the game.
I still fundamentally don't understand the point of 76.
It's like, okay, Bethesda, you're good at making interesting sandboxes. That doesn't mean you get to strip out literally everything else.
Well, the one thing everyone agreed on about 4 was that the main story was irrelevant at best. So instead of trying to find a way to make a compelling story that also is compatible with an open world, they just skipped it.
Also, it should be pointed out that mentions of a faction are different than members od a faction being present.
I don't think anyone is really asking for a main story, just good side quests.
I mean yeah the main story was bleh, but there were a bunch of really well done side quests.
It seems like sidequests are still in. With everyone being dead I don't know how compelling they are, but we'll see.
It all depends on the writing.
The Survivalist's tale in Honest Hearts was told only in scattered computer logs and notes and it was one of the best stories in the game.
That was Obsidian but still, shows they can work.
That was in the context of the larger story though. Would it hold up as well if it wasn't mirrored by how his actions shaped the NPCs in the area?
I still fundamentally don't understand the point of 76.
It's like, okay, Bethesda, you're good at making interesting sandboxes. That doesn't mean you get to strip out literally everything else.
Well, the one thing everyone agreed on about 4 was that the main story was irrelevant at best. So instead of trying to find a way to make a compelling story that also is compatible with an open world, they just skipped it.
Also, it should be pointed out that mentions of a faction are different than members od a faction being present.
I don't think anyone is really asking for a main story, just good side quests.
I mean yeah the main story was bleh, but there were a bunch of really well done side quests.
It seems like sidequests are still in. With everyone being dead I don't know how compelling they are, but we'll see.
It all depends on the writing.
The Survivalist's tale in Honest Hearts was told only in scattered computer logs and notes and it was one of the best stories in the game.
That was Obsidian but still, shows they can work.
That was in the context of the larger story though. Would it hold up as well if it wasn't mirrored by how his actions shaped the NPCs in the area?
The point is, the writing is what carried it. Never once do you interact with an actual NPC.
Walking in the footsteps or shadows of the past and exploring a desolate world could be an interesting and meaningful experience on its own. Ghosts of the pasts with unfulfilled duties and dreams around every corner to actually see Appalachia become a sustainable place for humanity. That the vault dwellers are taking up their work and carrying the torch.
Whether Bethesda can actually succeed at delivering that premise, I find questionable but their environmental storytelling is the one part of their writing that has never let me down so I am somewhat hopeful that it'll be pretty solid in that regard.
It really makes me sad that building permanent structures and big huge building spaces aren't a thing like traditional survival games. Don't think the game will ever really fully realize the idea of "rebuild America" when everything you create just disappears once you leave.
At the end of the day, you can do all the quests to make the region better but if theres a not of feeling of lasting impact or change on the landscape, its hard to really feel the idea of progress coming across in the way the game kind of seems to want to sell it.
I hope it does well though. I think theres a lot of room for this to grow as a spin off series. Adding more NPCs in future installments, dialog options that you and your party members can interject themselves into and argue over (ala Divinity OS), etc.
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited October 2018
You know, 76 poses an interesting question: What the hell do Super mutants do once they finally kill, eat and assimilate all the humans in the surrounding area?
You know, 76 poses an interesting question: What the hell do Super mutants do once they finally kill, eat and assimilate all the humans in the surrounding area?
Pick fights with The Scorched ghouls?
"Kill eat crispy bacon humans now!"
They go to a new area and make a bunch more super mutants, because they're apparently everywhere.
You know, 76 poses an interesting question: What the hell do Super mutants do once they finally kill, eat and assimilate all the humans in the surrounding area?
Pick fights with The Scorched ghouls?
"Kill eat crispy bacon humans now!"
They go to a new area and make a bunch more super mutants, because they're apparently everywhere.
Did you know, the 63rd President of the United States was a Super Mutant.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
You know, 76 poses an interesting question: What the hell do Super mutants do once they finally kill, eat and assimilate all the humans in the surrounding area?
Pick fights with The Scorched ghouls?
"Kill eat crispy bacon humans now!"
They go to a new area and make a bunch more super mutants, because they're apparently everywhere.
Did you know, the 63rd President of the United States was a Super Mutant.
Has anyone found bobby pins ? I unlocked pick lock, and found stuff to unlock, but despite getting to level 7, didn’t find a single bobby pin...
I found a bobby pin, but never got the skill. Not sure (might have been a shack near the vault) where I got it though, since I only had four hours I just looted everything in sight/not glued down without really stopping to look.
Not having NPC's makes things a bit 'hollow' feeling, but the core of what I enjoy about exploring in these games is still there. I'll need to spend more time with it (well they've got my cash now anyhow) before I can decide how I feel about it.
Played an hour of the Beta last night - not a huge amount, as I'm in Europe and the whole "midnight to 4am only" schtick is a bit unfair to people in the EU, but them's the breaks.
I enjoyed the brief time I played - I didn't get much further than level 4, and a basic outfit. Fought a bunch of scorched, ghouls and robots - the game does feel a bit sparse, without NPC's, but the core exploration and survival experience is an enjoyable one. You will like it if you liked Survival mode in Fallout 4.
Here's hoping mods add Raiders, or they get put in with a later patch. Lore-wise it can't be too hard to justify - other vaults, rival survivors, etc.
+1
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
Got to buy a clip on mic for this game since theres no text chat (really, Bethesda?) and I hate headphones with giant earmuffs.
People don't mind the sound of a constant giant whirring fan, right? Thats not annoying at all.
I watched BikeMan play the FO 76 beta on Twitch with a few other streamers, and really it just looked like they were playing vanilla Fallout 4 with other humans, minus most of the things that made Fallout 4 fun. The menus are slightly cleaned up to look more MMO-like, and perks have been turned into cards to introduce randomness, I guess? Plus radiant quests would pop up now and again to go kill this or find that, mimicking Community Quests that a few MMOs have done in the past.
But otherwise it seemed pretty flat to me, just wandering around looking for crafting ingredients to upgrade weapons or armor a little bit, while cosplaying as a paramedic or mail carrier. I'll probably watch more just to watch on-going progress, but man I am not hyped for this game.
Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
edited October 2018
If your 3 weeks early limited access session feels like a real beta, you fucked up.
Hoping this will be fun to play with friends but not convinced yet.
Sirialis on
+2
Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
Not having the map on the Pip-boy is one of the most jarring changes for me.
During my time with it, I would constantly be bringing up the Pip-boy expecting the map, only it's been moved onto a separate button to be extra-diegetic now, versus how it's been since FO3.
Oh and they turned off the ability to move corpses (ragdoll actors) around, like you could in Skyrim, so maybe they had some problem with syncing that in the netcode.
Which means you come across some dead NPC's (well they are all dead and only PC players might end up having have access to the console) that fall like rigid mannequins in T-poses, propped up against walls.
It's just interesting to see (first hand) how they've tackled the problem of making the Creation/Gamebryo engine support multiplayer versus how the modding community has tackled it thus far.
It's like attaching wings onto a Buick and making it fly, when it was built to be a car.
GuibsWeekend WarriorSomewhere up North.Registered Userregular
My interest in this game came from the fact that it is a multiplayer fallout game. A friend and I enjoy the game enough that we would often just play fallout 4 on our side in a group chat and tell the other what was going on in our current game. Multiple times we mentioned that it would be fun if we could coop this game. Fallout 76 is sort of what we were looking for.
I get a lot of the restrictions and I'm not particularly interested in now in PVP, but I agree with others that what bugs me the most if the fact there are no human NPC. I just don't get their ideas being not providing them. To me, even if they are usually bare-bones, it adds some flavour and ambiance to the game.
It's just interesting to see (first hand) how they've tackled the problem of making the Creation/Gamebryo engine support multiplayer versus how the modding community has tackled it thus far.
It's like attaching wings onto a Buick and making it fly, when it was built to be a car.
They call Creation Engine an "engine" but it was eight billion middleware packages duct-taped to Gamebryo since the start.
+6
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
I just honestly don't see how in the world not having private servers and persistent construction is going to work for this type of game. Maybe I'll be pleasently surprised, but what I've read sounds insane (basically all your shit disappears when you log out and reappears when you log in if someone else hasn't build there? And if they have you just move all your shit somewhere else for free? So buildings just randomly appear and disappear as people log on?)
+3
Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
PC Beta tonight! Do you guys want to get some groups going? Is it possible to get groups going?
I just honestly don't see how in the world not having private servers and persistent construction is going to work for this type of game. Maybe I'll be pleasently surprised, but what I've read sounds insane (basically all your shit disappears when you log out and reappears when you log in if someone else hasn't build there? And if they have you just move all your shit somewhere else for free? So buildings just randomly appear and disappear as people log on?)
This is my feeling as well. Bethesda seems to want this game to be everything to every body, but when they describe stuff like this I can't imagine what the hell they were thinking. No NPCs, so no persistent towns, but not even persistent player dwellings to even attempt to breathe life into the game map.
Then there's that trailer a few posts above which tries to make the game seem lively and like you could have a community... but you can't, because each time you log in there is no persistence. Even if you have a group of friends to play with most or all of the time, you still can't create a "town".
"Hey, wasn't Dave's house right here?"
"Yeah he had to move over the hill there, because xXCumDumpster69Xx had his bed roll and cooking pot here when we logged in."
Posts
There's no reason the brotherhood would be the only piece of the US military to survive, and it would be a lot more interesting if Bethesda came up with something like the brotherhood but with a totally different outlook and backstory
but I continue to be confused as to why there aren't any NPCs in the game anyway, there are so many design decisions about this thing that confuse me
They also confirmed the Enclave is another faction present in Fallout 76. I'm not sure if the Enclave would have been active at that time since I believe they were still on their oil rig, but they're slightly more plausible being there, I guess.
Steam Support is the worst. Seriously, the worst
It's like, okay, Bethesda, you're good at making interesting sandboxes. That doesn't mean you get to strip out literally everything else.
The lack of quest NPCs I attribute to money. I mean I guess I can't really fault them over much for that choice all things considered. However the lack of human enemy types is really weird.
I mean hell they could have had generic Raiders, Cannibal Hillbillies (it is freaking post-apoc Appalachia), maybe even a group of power armor wearing tribals descended from a nearby US Army base.
I'm gonna take a guess here and say that the Enclave is also out and about too. I mean, like BoS I fully expect to see Enclave references and not actual Enclave soldiers.
Ugh, man, there are gonna be Institute references too aren't there? I can feel it.
edit- @Sir Carcass Sonavabitch, I posted my Enclave guess before I saw your post. Man, Bethesda, try being original.
edit 2- In regards to the Enclave IIRC they had the Oil Rig in the west and the bunker in the east at the same time. Or at least I'm pretty sure both were operational at the same time.
edit 3- The answer is technically yes. Raven Rock existed and I guess was home to Eden who made contact with the Enclave in the west then had them relocate to his base after they lost the Oil Rig.
Just wanna hang out, listen to music, and trick out their dope power armor.
The Atom Cats were a source of significant disappointment for me, because I agree with you that they seemed pretty damned awesome and yet... fucking nothing done with them.
They are pretty much a signpost for the entire Fallout 76 experience I imagine.
The Atom Cats are a signpost for how Bethesda does factions in general in Fallout so far: Good imagery but then shallow or badly written. They need to have some of the people that work on Elder Scrolls lore work on their original Fallout factions. Even some of the minor ES groups like the Cult of the Worm, Camona Tong, and Khajit caravans have more nuance than their Fallout factions to say nothing of major groups like the Dark Brotherhood, Tribunal Temple, or Morag Tong.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Well, the one thing everyone agreed on about 4 was that the main story was irrelevant at best. So instead of trying to find a way to make a compelling story that also is compatible with an open world, they just skipped it.
Also, it should be pointed out that mentions of a faction are different than members od a faction being present.
I don't think anyone is really asking for a main story, just good side quests.
I mean yeah the main story was bleh, but there were a bunch of really well done side quests.
It seems like sidequests are still in. With everyone being dead I don't know how compelling they are, but we'll see.
Not the same thing.
So you are still apparently getting quests, it's just from audio logs of dead people now.
Which just seems odd to me.
I don't blame Bethesda on this, I blame players of the series. The more rabid, the more blame.
The Survivalist's tale in Honest Hearts was told only in scattered computer logs and notes and it was one of the best stories in the game.
That was Obsidian but still, shows they can work.
That was in the context of the larger story though. Would it hold up as well if it wasn't mirrored by how his actions shaped the NPCs in the area?
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Walking in the footsteps or shadows of the past and exploring a desolate world could be an interesting and meaningful experience on its own. Ghosts of the pasts with unfulfilled duties and dreams around every corner to actually see Appalachia become a sustainable place for humanity. That the vault dwellers are taking up their work and carrying the torch.
Whether Bethesda can actually succeed at delivering that premise, I find questionable but their environmental storytelling is the one part of their writing that has never let me down so I am somewhat hopeful that it'll be pretty solid in that regard.
It really makes me sad that building permanent structures and big huge building spaces aren't a thing like traditional survival games. Don't think the game will ever really fully realize the idea of "rebuild America" when everything you create just disappears once you leave.
At the end of the day, you can do all the quests to make the region better but if theres a not of feeling of lasting impact or change on the landscape, its hard to really feel the idea of progress coming across in the way the game kind of seems to want to sell it.
I hope it does well though. I think theres a lot of room for this to grow as a spin off series. Adding more NPCs in future installments, dialog options that you and your party members can interject themselves into and argue over (ala Divinity OS), etc.
Pick fights with The Scorched ghouls?
"Kill eat crispy bacon humans now!"
They go to a new area and make a bunch more super mutants, because they're apparently everywhere.
Steam Support is the worst. Seriously, the worst
Did you know, the 63rd President of the United States was a Super Mutant.
*sigh* not another FEVr
Fresh out of the Vault. Not much time, go go go!
"No NPC's... No NPC's... Anywhere!"
More than Bethesda warning you about it... This game even lists the bugs... :P
More here: https://imgur.com/a/nVLAPwv
I found a bobby pin, but never got the skill. Not sure (might have been a shack near the vault) where I got it though, since I only had four hours I just looted everything in sight/not glued down without really stopping to look.
Not having NPC's makes things a bit 'hollow' feeling, but the core of what I enjoy about exploring in these games is still there. I'll need to spend more time with it (well they've got my cash now anyhow) before I can decide how I feel about it.
Some times you lean into something so hard, you fall flat on your face.
I enjoyed the brief time I played - I didn't get much further than level 4, and a basic outfit. Fought a bunch of scorched, ghouls and robots - the game does feel a bit sparse, without NPC's, but the core exploration and survival experience is an enjoyable one. You will like it if you liked Survival mode in Fallout 4.
Here's hoping mods add Raiders, or they get put in with a later patch. Lore-wise it can't be too hard to justify - other vaults, rival survivors, etc.
People don't mind the sound of a constant giant whirring fan, right? Thats not annoying at all.
But otherwise it seemed pretty flat to me, just wandering around looking for crafting ingredients to upgrade weapons or armor a little bit, while cosplaying as a paramedic or mail carrier. I'll probably watch more just to watch on-going progress, but man I am not hyped for this game.
Hoping this will be fun to play with friends but not convinced yet.
During my time with it, I would constantly be bringing up the Pip-boy expecting the map, only it's been moved onto a separate button to be extra-diegetic now, versus how it's been since FO3.
Oh and they turned off the ability to move corpses (ragdoll actors) around, like you could in Skyrim, so maybe they had some problem with syncing that in the netcode.
Which means you come across some dead NPC's (well they are all dead and only PC players might end up having have access to the console) that fall like rigid mannequins in T-poses, propped up against walls.
It's just interesting to see (first hand) how they've tackled the problem of making the Creation/Gamebryo engine support multiplayer versus how the modding community has tackled it thus far.
It's like attaching wings onto a Buick and making it fly, when it was built to be a car.
I get a lot of the restrictions and I'm not particularly interested in now in PVP, but I agree with others that what bugs me the most if the fact there are no human NPC. I just don't get their ideas being not providing them. To me, even if they are usually bare-bones, it adds some flavour and ambiance to the game.
PSN: Guibs25 | XboxLive: Guibs | Steam: Guibsx | Twitch: Guibsx
They call Creation Engine an "engine" but it was eight billion middleware packages duct-taped to Gamebryo since the start.
This one is abit nightmarish.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
This is my feeling as well. Bethesda seems to want this game to be everything to every body, but when they describe stuff like this I can't imagine what the hell they were thinking. No NPCs, so no persistent towns, but not even persistent player dwellings to even attempt to breathe life into the game map.
Then there's that trailer a few posts above which tries to make the game seem lively and like you could have a community... but you can't, because each time you log in there is no persistence. Even if you have a group of friends to play with most or all of the time, you still can't create a "town".
"Hey, wasn't Dave's house right here?"
"Yeah he had to move over the hill there, because xXCumDumpster69Xx had his bed roll and cooking pot here when we logged in."
"Oh."