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[Trump Immigration Policy] DACA renewals continue due to injunction, SCOTUS denies appeal

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Gotta say I like this tactic though. Make the whole thing about illegal immigration, then start clamping down on legal immigration.

    Hey guess what people who voted for them: it was never about immigration. it's about not-white people

    They know.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    they uh, know that the us doesn't have an official language, right?

    Outlook not so good.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Someone remind me to watch that shit when I get home tonight

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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Someone remind me to watch that shit when I get home tonight

    Make sure you take your medicine for heebie jeebies prior to exposure

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    TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootless_cosmopolitan

    Whoa, I was not actually aware cosmopolitan was used in an anti-Semitic campaign. Trumpians keep teaching me gross things.

    PAD ID - 328,762,218
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Gotta say I like this tactic though. Make the whole thing about illegal immigration, then start clamping down on legal immigration.

    Hey guess what people who voted for them: it was never about immigration. it's about not-white people

    Come on, they know. That's why they voted for him.

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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootless_cosmopolitan

    Whoa, I was not actually aware cosmopolitan was used in an anti-Semitic campaign. Trumpians keep teaching me gross things.

    If one of them says a word you don't quite get the context of, you can assume anti-Semitism with roughly a 50% hit rate.

    The other 50% is a combo of other forms of xenophobia.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootless_cosmopolitan

    Whoa, I was not actually aware cosmopolitan was used in an anti-Semitic campaign. Trumpians keep teaching me gross things.
    WHAT THE FUCK I did not know this was a thing. Holy shit. And hey bonus points to the Trump campaign for once again going "Oh hey, Russia." Even if by accident.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Saw the video. What the fuck?

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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Apparently so much stupid shit is said by Trump that I'm not even picking up on reporting of it.

    Like, apparently he claimed the Mexican President called to compliment him on the new immigration policy.

    They didn't, obviously

    The White House admitted to that, too.

    I like the top reddit comment's take.
    That's the wrong way to handle this.

    Since the conversation likely never occurred, they should have claimed Trump made some outrageous concession in exchange for something relatively minor.

    "Why, yes, we called, congratulated the President, and offered our support for his agenda. He was so happy, he has decided to return the state of Texas to its rightful sovereign, Mexico".

    Then you get to watch the Trump Administration try to disprove Trump said that.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Apparently so much stupid shit is said by Trump that I'm not even picking up on reporting of it.

    Like, apparently he claimed the Mexican President called to compliment him on the new immigration policy.

    They didn't, obviously

    The White House admitted to that, too.

    I like the top reddit comment's take.
    That's the wrong way to handle this.

    Since the conversation likely never occurred, they should have claimed Trump made some outrageous concession in exchange for something relatively minor.

    "Why, yes, we called, congratulated the President, and offered our support for his agenda. He was so happy, he has decided to return the state of Texas to its rightful sovereign, Mexico".

    Then you get to watch the Trump Administration try to disprove Trump said that.

    Conversation inside White House:
    "Wait, did he promise that? Was anyone there to check?"
    "We don't know sir. We ... we don't know."

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    LabelLabel Registered User regular
    Apparently, there was actually an in person conversation recently, just not a phone call.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article164939522.html
    Mexico's Foreign Relations Department said Pena Nieto remarked to Trump during a July 7 meeting at the G-20 summit in Germany that deportations of Mexicans from the United States had fallen 31 percent between January and June, as compared with 2016.

    Still, fuck Trump and his racist-assed immigration policies.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    That's loaded phrasing because "deportations to Mexico" doesn't include people being indefinitely detained, and the violent manner in which arrests have been made, or the militant style ICE has been handling things.

    I actually contacted my father for the first time in like a decade to warn him to have his papers on hand at all times when ICE was let off their leash at the start of the year. He's a bastard through and through, but he doesn't deserve wrongful deportation or any sort of hard time by that racist as fuck agency acting on orders from a racist as fuck administration.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    So, here's a hell of a story on NPR.

    A Jamaican-born US citizen is detained by ICE for three years, is denied a lawyer for much of that time, and when he finally gets released? He isn't able to get any monetary compensation because he was held so long that the statute of limitations had expired!

    DarkPrimus on
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So, here's a hell of a story on NPR.

    A Jamaican-born US citizen is detained by ICE for three years, is denied a lawyer for much of that time, and when he finally gets released? He isn't able to get any monetary compensation because he was held so long that the statute of limitations had expired!

    It's utterly incomprehensible to me that the statute of limitations doesn't start at the END of incarceration.

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    He hasn't exhausted all his options in the court system, the 2nd US Circuit Court of Appeals ruling could get overturned. Don't know if he could sue every shit head ICE agent that was involved because there should be consequences for such incompetence, anyone that are still in the agency, should be fired. I would not be surprised if racism led to them not doing their fucking job.

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    The feined umbridge
    Wait - did I miss the Harry Potter cosplay?

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    Guess who lied about "they will pay for the wall"?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/you-cannot-say-that-to-the-press-trump-urged-mexican-president-to-end-his-public-defiance-on-border-wall-transcript-reveals/2017/08/03/0c2c0a4e-7610-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html
    But in his first White House call with Mexico’s president, Trump described his vow to charge Mexico as a growing political problem, pressuring the Mexican leader to stop saying publicly that his government would never pay.

    “You cannot say that to the press,” Trump said repeatedly, according to a transcript of the Jan. 27 call obtained by The Washington Post. Trump made clear that he realized the funding would have to come from other sources but threatened to cut off contact if Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto continued to make defiant statements.

    The funding “will work out in the formula somehow,” Trump said, adding later that “it will come out in the wash, and that is okay.” But “if you are going to say that Mexico is not going to pay for the wall, then I do not want to meet with you guys anymore because I cannot live with that.”


    He described the wall as “the least important thing we are talking about, but politically this might be the most important.”
    Trump seemed to acknowledge that his threats to make Mexico pay had left him cornered politically. “I have to have Mexico pay for the wall — I have to,” he said. “I have been talking about it for a two-year period.”

    To solve that problem, Trump pressured Peña Nieto to suppress the issue. When pressed on who would pay for the wall, “We should both say, ‘We will work it out.’ It will work out in the formula somehow,” Trump said. “As opposed to you saying, ‘We will not pay,’ and me saying, ‘We will not pay.’ ”

    Peña Nieto resisted, saying that Trump’s repeated threats had placed “a very big mark on our back, Mr. President.” He warned that “my position has been and will continue to be very firm, saying that Mexico cannot pay for the wall.”
    I am not shocked at all, really.

    Edit: Because it is also relevant, some more details on his early conversation with Turnbull leaked:
    At one point, Trump expressed admiration for Australia’s refusal to allow refugees arriving on boats to reach its shores, saying it “is a good idea. We should do that too.” In a remark apparently meant as a compliment, Trump told Turnbull, “You are worse than I am.”

    But the conversation rapidly deteriorated.

    “I hate taking these people,” Trump said. “I guarantee you they are bad. That is why they are in prison right now. They are not going to be wonderful people who go on to work for the local milk people” — an apparent reference to U.S. dairy farms.

    Turnbull tried to salvage the deal, noting that the detainees were economic refugees who had not been accused of crimes. He explained that they were being denied entry into Australia because of a policy aimed at discouraging human smuggling.

    “There is nothing more important in business or politics than a deal is a deal,” Turnbull said. “You can certainly say that it was not a deal that you would have done, but you are going to stick with it.”

    Trump only became angrier, saying the refugees could “become the Boston bomber in five years.”
    Trump literally does not understand being in a refugee detention center isn't the same as being put in prison for crimes.

    Edit: Here are the full transcripts: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/politics/australia-mexico-transcripts/

    Couscous on
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    Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    I can hazard a guess that President Nieto would love to never have to talk to Trump.

    Mx. Quill on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Guess who lied about "they will pay for the wall"?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/you-cannot-say-that-to-the-press-trump-urged-mexican-president-to-end-his-public-defiance-on-border-wall-transcript-reveals/2017/08/03/0c2c0a4e-7610-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html
    But in his first White House call with Mexico’s president, Trump described his vow to charge Mexico as a growing political problem, pressuring the Mexican leader to stop saying publicly that his government would never pay.

    “You cannot say that to the press,” Trump said repeatedly, according to a transcript of the Jan. 27 call obtained by The Washington Post. Trump made clear that he realized the funding would have to come from other sources but threatened to cut off contact if Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto continued to make defiant statements.

    The funding “will work out in the formula somehow,” Trump said, adding later that “it will come out in the wash, and that is okay.” But “if you are going to say that Mexico is not going to pay for the wall, then I do not want to meet with you guys anymore because I cannot live with that.”


    He described the wall as “the least important thing we are talking about, but politically this might be the most important.”
    Trump seemed to acknowledge that his threats to make Mexico pay had left him cornered politically. “I have to have Mexico pay for the wall — I have to,” he said. “I have been talking about it for a two-year period.”

    To solve that problem, Trump pressured Peña Nieto to suppress the issue. When pressed on who would pay for the wall, “We should both say, ‘We will work it out.’ It will work out in the formula somehow,” Trump said. “As opposed to you saying, ‘We will not pay,’ and me saying, ‘We will not pay.’ ”

    Peña Nieto resisted, saying that Trump’s repeated threats had placed “a very big mark on our back, Mr. President.” He warned that “my position has been and will continue to be very firm, saying that Mexico cannot pay for the wall.”
    I am not shocked at all, really.

    Edit: Because it is also relevant, some more details on his early conversation with Turnbull leaked:
    At one point, Trump expressed admiration for Australia’s refusal to allow refugees arriving on boats to reach its shores, saying it “is a good idea. We should do that too.” In a remark apparently meant as a compliment, Trump told Turnbull, “You are worse than I am.”

    But the conversation rapidly deteriorated.

    “I hate taking these people,” Trump said. “I guarantee you they are bad. That is why they are in prison right now. They are not going to be wonderful people who go on to work for the local milk people” — an apparent reference to U.S. dairy farms.

    Turnbull tried to salvage the deal, noting that the detainees were economic refugees who had not been accused of crimes. He explained that they were being denied entry into Australia because of a policy aimed at discouraging human smuggling.

    “There is nothing more important in business or politics than a deal is a deal,” Turnbull said. “You can certainly say that it was not a deal that you would have done, but you are going to stick with it.”

    Trump only became angrier, saying the refugees could “become the Boston bomber in five years.”
    Trump literally does not understand being in a refugee detention center isn't the same as being put in prison for crimes.

    Australian refugee detention centers are worse. It's fucking awful there.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    He hasn't exhausted all his options in the court system, the 2nd US Circuit Court of Appeals ruling could get overturned. Don't know if he could sue every shit head ICE agent that was involved because there should be consequences for such incompetence, anyone that are still in the agency, should be fired. I would not be surprised if racism led to them not doing their fucking job.

    I would hope even the current SCOTUS can see that "they broke the law long enough so you can't sue" is beyond absurd.

    Also, how the fuck does the statute of limitations tun out that fast?

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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Guess who lied about "they will pay for the wall"?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/you-cannot-say-that-to-the-press-trump-urged-mexican-president-to-end-his-public-defiance-on-border-wall-transcript-reveals/2017/08/03/0c2c0a4e-7610-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html
    But in his first White House call with Mexico’s president, Trump described his vow to charge Mexico as a growing political problem, pressuring the Mexican leader to stop saying publicly that his government would never pay.

    “You cannot say that to the press,” Trump said repeatedly, according to a transcript of the Jan. 27 call obtained by The Washington Post. Trump made clear that he realized the funding would have to come from other sources but threatened to cut off contact if Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto continued to make defiant statements.

    The funding “will work out in the formula somehow,” Trump said, adding later that “it will come out in the wash, and that is okay.” But “if you are going to say that Mexico is not going to pay for the wall, then I do not want to meet with you guys anymore because I cannot live with that.”


    He described the wall as “the least important thing we are talking about, but politically this might be the most important.”
    Trump seemed to acknowledge that his threats to make Mexico pay had left him cornered politically. “I have to have Mexico pay for the wall — I have to,” he said. “I have been talking about it for a two-year period.”

    To solve that problem, Trump pressured Peña Nieto to suppress the issue. When pressed on who would pay for the wall, “We should both say, ‘We will work it out.’ It will work out in the formula somehow,” Trump said. “As opposed to you saying, ‘We will not pay,’ and me saying, ‘We will not pay.’ ”

    Peña Nieto resisted, saying that Trump’s repeated threats had placed “a very big mark on our back, Mr. President.” He warned that “my position has been and will continue to be very firm, saying that Mexico cannot pay for the wall.”
    I am not shocked at all, really.

    Edit: Because it is also relevant, some more details on his early conversation with Turnbull leaked:
    At one point, Trump expressed admiration for Australia’s refusal to allow refugees arriving on boats to reach its shores, saying it “is a good idea. We should do that too.” In a remark apparently meant as a compliment, Trump told Turnbull, “You are worse than I am.”

    But the conversation rapidly deteriorated.

    “I hate taking these people,” Trump said. “I guarantee you they are bad. That is why they are in prison right now. They are not going to be wonderful people who go on to work for the local milk people” — an apparent reference to U.S. dairy farms.

    Turnbull tried to salvage the deal, noting that the detainees were economic refugees who had not been accused of crimes. He explained that they were being denied entry into Australia because of a policy aimed at discouraging human smuggling.

    “There is nothing more important in business or politics than a deal is a deal,” Turnbull said. “You can certainly say that it was not a deal that you would have done, but you are going to stick with it.”

    Trump only became angrier, saying the refugees could “become the Boston bomber in five years.”
    Trump literally does not understand being in a refugee detention center isn't the same as being put in prison for crimes.

    Edit: Here are the full transcripts: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/politics/australia-mexico-transcripts/

    He's just such a fuckin idiot child.

  • Options
    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Guess who lied about "they will pay for the wall"?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/you-cannot-say-that-to-the-press-trump-urged-mexican-president-to-end-his-public-defiance-on-border-wall-transcript-reveals/2017/08/03/0c2c0a4e-7610-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html
    But in his first White House call with Mexico’s president, Trump described his vow to charge Mexico as a growing political problem, pressuring the Mexican leader to stop saying publicly that his government would never pay.

    “You cannot say that to the press,” Trump said repeatedly, according to a transcript of the Jan. 27 call obtained by The Washington Post. Trump made clear that he realized the funding would have to come from other sources but threatened to cut off contact if Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto continued to make defiant statements.

    The funding “will work out in the formula somehow,” Trump said, adding later that “it will come out in the wash, and that is okay.” But “if you are going to say that Mexico is not going to pay for the wall, then I do not want to meet with you guys anymore because I cannot live with that.”


    He described the wall as “the least important thing we are talking about, but politically this might be the most important.”
    Trump seemed to acknowledge that his threats to make Mexico pay had left him cornered politically. “I have to have Mexico pay for the wall — I have to,” he said. “I have been talking about it for a two-year period.”

    To solve that problem, Trump pressured Peña Nieto to suppress the issue. When pressed on who would pay for the wall, “We should both say, ‘We will work it out.’ It will work out in the formula somehow,” Trump said. “As opposed to you saying, ‘We will not pay,’ and me saying, ‘We will not pay.’ ”

    Peña Nieto resisted, saying that Trump’s repeated threats had placed “a very big mark on our back, Mr. President.” He warned that “my position has been and will continue to be very firm, saying that Mexico cannot pay for the wall.”
    I am not shocked at all, really.

    Edit: Because it is also relevant, some more details on his early conversation with Turnbull leaked:
    At one point, Trump expressed admiration for Australia’s refusal to allow refugees arriving on boats to reach its shores, saying it “is a good idea. We should do that too.” In a remark apparently meant as a compliment, Trump told Turnbull, “You are worse than I am.”

    But the conversation rapidly deteriorated.

    “I hate taking these people,” Trump said. “I guarantee you they are bad. That is why they are in prison right now. They are not going to be wonderful people who go on to work for the local milk people” — an apparent reference to U.S. dairy farms.

    Turnbull tried to salvage the deal, noting that the detainees were economic refugees who had not been accused of crimes. He explained that they were being denied entry into Australia because of a policy aimed at discouraging human smuggling.

    “There is nothing more important in business or politics than a deal is a deal,” Turnbull said. “You can certainly say that it was not a deal that you would have done, but you are going to stick with it.”

    Trump only became angrier, saying the refugees could “become the Boston bomber in five years.”
    Trump literally does not understand being in a refugee detention center isn't the same as being put in prison for crimes.

    Australian refugee detention centers are worse. It's fucking awful there.
    Agreed. Eventually (I hope) it'll be seen as the same kind of blight as Terra Nullius. But xenophobia is way too strong at this point, and the lack of political will to tell those xenophobes to fuck off, it's fucking infuriating. I'm all for immigration law, but a) these people are a small minority of illegal immigrants, b) they're unfairly characterized, c) they should be treated humanely, and d) more often than not, they're found to be legitimate asylum seekers. Most of the people caught in the most famous seizure (Tampa) were granted asylum.

    But regarding the Trump/Turnbull intercept, Trump really comes across as ignorant as fuck.

    We're all gonna die. Wheeee!

    This f'n guy.

  • Options
    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    TRUMP: Why haven’t you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

    TURNBULL: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people —

    TRUMP: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

    TURNBULL: This is our experience.

    TRUMP: Because you do not want to destroy your country. Look at what has happened in Germany. Look at what is happening in these countries. These people are crazy to let this happen. I spoke to Merkel today, and believe me, she wishes she did not do it. Germany is a mess because of what happened.

    TURNBULL: I agree with you, letting one million Syrians walk into their country. It was one of the big factors in the Brexit vote, frankly.

    TRUMP: Well, there could be two million people coming in Germany. Two million people. Can you believe it? It will never be the same.
    They are both really terrible people. Like really terrible.

    Couscous on
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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    TRUMP: Why haven’t you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

    TURNBULL: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people —

    TRUMP: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

    TURNBULL: This is our experience.

    TRUMP: Because you do not want to destroy your country. Look at what has happened in Germany. Look at what is happening in these countries. These people are crazy to let this happen. I spoke to Merkel today, and believe me, she wishes she did not do it. Germany is a mess because of what happened.

    TURNBULL: I agree with you, letting one million Syrians walk into their country. It was one of the big factors in the Brexit vote, frankly.

    TRUMP: Well, there could be two million people coming in Germany. Two million people. Can you believe it? It will never be the same.
    They are both really terrible people. Like really terrible.

    Terrible yes, but even in this short conversation between two people who share similar goals in terms of increasing inequality and maximizing their own power, you can see who is merely greedy and who is an incompetent madman.

    Turnbull starts out making it clear that releasing these people wouldn't destroy their society, that in fact most of them are fine people, but that the people smugglers are the real problem. And there are decent reasons for that statement (people smugglers are a real problem) being true. Then Trump immediately turns the conversation into "All immigrants are here to kill us!" and Turnbull realizes he's not talking to a sensible person, but instead to just a buffoon and pivots to "Talking to an angry old person who will vote for you" mode. "Yes Grandpa. That would be a big deal if it happened. Lets get you back to bed..."

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    Part of what makes it amazing is that Trump is still mad even after Turnbull basically explains how to honor the letter of the deal but not the spirit of the deal.

    Turnbull explains how he just needs to go through a process of extreme vetting to basically winnow the number down to almost nothing. Trump then still whines about the deal some more and ends up mentioning his victory as a reason why he is going to break the deal.
    TURNBULL: Yes, but let me describe what it is. I think it is quite consistent. I think you can comply with it. It is absolutely consistent with your Executive Order so please just hear me out. The obligation is for the United States to look and examine and take up to and only if they so choose – 1,250 to 2,000. Every individual is subject to your vetting. You can decide to take them or to not take them after vetting. You can decide to take 1,000 or 100. It is entirely up to you. The obligation is to only go through the process. So that is the first thing. Secondly, the people — none of these people are from the conflict zone. They are basically economic refugees from Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. That is the vast bulk of them. They have been under our supervision for over three years now and we know exactly everything about them.
    TURNBULL: But can I say to you, there is nothing more important in business or politics than a deal is a deal. Look, you and I have a lot of mutual friends.

    TRUMP: Look, I do not know how you got them to sign a deal like this, but that is how they lost the election. They said I had no way to 270 and I got 306. That is why they lost the election, because of stupid deals like this. You have brokered many a stupid deal in business and I respect you, but I guarantee that you broke many a stupid deal. This is a stupid deal. This deal will make me look terrible.
    It isn't even like it would be hard for Trump to boast about how Obama made this terrible deal but he managed to get it down to whatever number of people through the extreme vetting Trump promised to have on all refugees instead of the thousands Obama originally promised.

    Couscous on
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    mRahmanimRahmani DetroitRegistered User regular
    oh my god he's still talking about the fucking election numbers

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    MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Is anyone else stunned that the content of these conversations leaked at all?

    Like, this is not something you usually see.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    mRahmani wrote: »
    oh my god he's still talking about the fucking election numbers

    He is, but also these are I think from January.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Part of what makes it amazing is that Trump is still mad even after Turnbull basically explains how to honor the letter of the deal but not the spirit of the deal.

    Turnbull explains how he just needs to go through a process of extreme vetting to basically winnow the number down to almost nothing. Trump then still whines about the deal some more and ends up mentioning his victory as a reason why he is going to break the deal.
    TURNBULL: Yes, but let me describe what it is. I think it is quite consistent. I think you can comply with it. It is absolutely consistent with your Executive Order so please just hear me out. The obligation is for the United States to look and examine and take up to and only if they so choose – 1,250 to 2,000. Every individual is subject to your vetting. You can decide to take them or to not take them after vetting. You can decide to take 1,000 or 100. It is entirely up to you. The obligation is to only go through the process. So that is the first thing. Secondly, the people — none of these people are from the conflict zone. They are basically economic refugees from Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. That is the vast bulk of them. They have been under our supervision for over three years now and we know exactly everything about them.
    TURNBULL: But can I say to you, there is nothing more important in business or politics than a deal is a deal. Look, you and I have a lot of mutual friends.

    TRUMP: Look, I do not know how you got them to sign a deal like this, but that is how they lost the election. They said I had no way to 270 and I got 306. That is why they lost the election, because of stupid deals like this. You have brokered many a stupid deal in business and I respect you, but I guarantee that you broke many a stupid deal. This is a stupid deal. This deal will make me look terrible.
    It isn't even like it would be hard for Trump to boast about how Obama made this terrible deal but he managed to get it down to whatever number of people through the extreme vetting Trump promised to have on all refugees instead of the thousands Obama originally promised.

    You know what becomes increasingly clear. Nothing bad that has ever been said about Trump, or his competence as a politician, negotiator, or businessman is not true. In fact, he is far more incompetent and dangerous in every aspect of everything he does than anyone could possibly believe. There was no hidden magic to him, or his campaign. No secret sauce for us to uncover. We were just unbearably unlucky.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    mRahmani wrote: »
    oh my god he's still talking about the fucking election numbers

    He is, but also these are I think from January.

    Yeah, these are not recent conversations. They are from late January. Each conversation record starts with a timeline that indicates when the conversation occurred.

    Still bad, just not recent.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    TRUMP: Why haven’t you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

    TURNBULL: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. So we said if you try to come to Australia by boat, even if we think you are the best person in the world, even if you are a Noble [sic] Prize winning genius, we will not let you in. Because the problem with the people —

    TRUMP: That is a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.

    TURNBULL: This is our experience.

    TRUMP: Because you do not want to destroy your country. Look at what has happened in Germany. Look at what is happening in these countries. These people are crazy to let this happen. I spoke to Merkel today, and believe me, she wishes she did not do it. Germany is a mess because of what happened.

    TURNBULL: I agree with you, letting one million Syrians walk into their country. It was one of the big factors in the Brexit vote, frankly.

    TRUMP: Well, there could be two million people coming in Germany. Two million people. Can you believe it? It will never be the same.
    They are both really terrible people. Like really terrible.

    Terrible yes, but even in this short conversation between two people who share similar goals in terms of increasing inequality and maximizing their own power, you can see who is merely greedy and who is an incompetent madman.

    Turnbull starts out making it clear that releasing these people wouldn't destroy their society, that in fact most of them are fine people, but that the people smugglers are the real problem. And there are decent reasons for that statement (people smugglers are a real problem) being true. Then Trump immediately turns the conversation into "All immigrants are here to kill us!" and Turnbull realizes he's not talking to a sensible person, but instead to just a buffoon and pivots to "Talking to an angry old person who will vote for you" mode. "Yes Grandpa. That would be a big deal if it happened. Lets get you back to bed..."

    Yup. You can see Turnbull spend the conversation essentially just placating and managing Trump after he realises he's a moron.

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    I manage to lose more respect for donald trump every day.

    we are in depths so deep that before 2017 i would have told you they wouldn't, couldn't exist.

    and yet here we are.

    Knight_ on
    aeNqQM9.jpg
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    EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    I saw a blip about this on the (Arkansas) news just now. Dickbag extraordinaire, Tom Cotton, said that all this immigration we've had has kept wages down due to saturation.

    I just couldn't even.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    So basically week one Trump caved and showed weakness in that he is all talk. "No please don't go to the press, I'll look stupid!" As a person of Mexican descent let me say, eat shit Donald.

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    DacDac Registered User regular
    As much as we talk about scandal fatigue, I do remember that Turnbull thing vividly. The points everyone is talking about were the same points seven months ago - we just have more context.

    That Nieto convo, though. Lol.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    I saw a blip about this on the (Arkansas) news just now. Dickbag extraordinaire, Tom Cotton, said that all this immigration we've had has kept wages down due to saturation.

    I just couldn't even.

    It's those dastardly brown people that are keeping you poor and your wages unreasonably low, not those rich fuckers overly taxed americans that keep giving themselves exorbitant bonuses and raises.

    The worst part is that this will work because of how much they've trashed education and the populace's ability to think critically.

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    Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    trump and turnbull are both assholes but trump has the saving grace of at least being a really stupid asshole

    edit:
    Trump wrote:
    Why haven’t you let them out? Why have you not let them into your society?

    good question m8

    Crimson King on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Holy shit did anyone hear Lindsey Graham's comment on this policy? He was pointing out the major flaw in the bill with his state as an example; that its economy is built a certain way, it's hard to get employees to fill particular jobs, so people on work visas help out. If you cut that in half, as the policy will do, it will hurt South Carolina's economy.

    And then literally his next sentence is "but other than that I think it's a great idea." Now, the source I heard this from follows up with asserting that was sarcasm, but given that it's Graham and how he hated the healthcare thing but voted yes anyway... I can't even fucking tell anymore.

    The source I heard it from is this, you have to skip to 7:20 in. If anyone gets a better more direct video I will replace this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2dhU6TAKjg

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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Today is a good day to think about refugees.

    Aug. 4, 1944: Anne Frank and her family are arrested by Nazis

    In 1941, the Franks were denied visas to the US, during a time when Americans were suspicious of a "Fifth Column" of secret German invaders.

This discussion has been closed.