Are you even going to get the original actors back? Oh and that's going to have a lovely bit of discussion around it, since after poking my head into the Dragon Age thread, I've now discovered that I'll now forever more get a finger wagged in my face if I ever breathe the name Jennifer Hale again, so... there's that. There's just too many ways it could fuck up, so my gut reaction is just to say never try.
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
Eh, I'll get excited when I actually see it.
Konami committing to videogames again probably only because some of their other sectors aren't doing so crash hot and (re-)diversifying again is, surprise, better for the overall health of the company
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miscellaneousinsanitygrass grows, birds fly, sun shines,and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered Userregular
The whole memes thing is even more relevant now than it was back then.
Which is the mind blowing part. Like for so long that entire sequence was a fun joke my friends and I would reference, with the silly word meme being said over and over. Only for us to watch in horror as the word became a more and more used piece of vocabulary in broader society making us look the fools
Prohass on
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
edited May 2021
When I first played mgs2, I thought "meme" was just a dumbass word they made up for mgs2 simply to rhyme with "gene."
Now I feel I may be living in some nightmare world.
Yeah, when I was young, I thought the evil acts ascribed to America in MGS were pretty silly, but it's a game. As I grew up, I realized... no if anything he's pretty generous and gentle to the Military Industrial Complex. Then he proved to be pretty spot on with the internet in MGS2 and quarantine in Death Stranding.
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
For all of Kojima's editing room flaws (it's part of the charm for me at this point), he's certainly not dumb.
His problem has never been his forward-thinking vision or thematic composition, it's more his utterly oblique interpretation of the English language and his idea of what constitutes a deep sentence re: translating Japanese wordplay into something that an English-speaking audience might actually consider meaningful
He desperately needs bilingual editors and translators in lockstep with his ideas, but also capable of exercising creative license to interpret his thoughts in a way that doesn't come off as garbled nonsense. Unfortunately given what we've read of him over the years, relinquishing creative control to co-creators as a creative equal rather than a lesser is something he's just not interested in
For all of Kojima's editing room flaws (it's part of the charm for me at this point), he's certainly not dumb.
His problem has never been his forward-thinking vision or thematic composition, it's more his utterly oblique interpretation of the English language and his idea of what constitutes a deep sentence re: translating Japanese wordplay into something that an English-speaking audience might actually consider meaningful
He desperately needs bilingual editors and translators in lockstep with his ideas, but also capable of exercising creative license to interpret his thoughts in a way that doesn't come off as garbled nonsense. Unfortunately given what we've read of him over the years, relinquishing creative control to co-creators as a creative equal rather than a lesser is something he's just not interested in
Not to mention him infamously butting heads with actually competent localization staff who were unable to get him to work with them, i.e. Agness Kaku on MGS2.
This is an important point to highlight, since it's in stark contrast to how Konami treated the localisation of the first MGS. Jeremy was blessed with access not only to Kojima himself, but also three huge, hard-cased ring binders from the R&D department, one of which was filled with original drawings by Shinkawa, another was the script and another was biographies, with info about all sorts of places and weapons. Agness laughs as she recalls the comparative lack of support from Konami, "Oh no, they were all originally just Word files. I should say that I was literally never given access to Konami."
I think this was more Konami's fault, but it always sounded like he's pretty high on his own supply when it comes to letting people translate his text.
It's unfortunate he had a falling out with David Hayter, especially since he went so far out of his way to give up a lot of his own salary for the Twin Snakes to bring the original cast back. He's got an ego for sure.
i mean, 70% of the cool MGS lingo in english was created by the translator who worked on MGS1 and did a really stellar job (I say this as someone whose native language is neither english nor japanese, so I've been exposed to several more orders of magnitude of localized/translated media, and also as a decade+ veteran of game localization and also a teacher of the subject), but as he was so creative Kojima hated him and made sure all subsequent games had very literal and controlled english versions.
i mean, 70% of the cool MGS lingo in english was created by the translator who worked on MGS1 and did a really stellar job (I say this as someone whose native language is neither english nor japanese, so I've been exposed to several more orders of magnitude of localized/translated media, and also as a decade+ veteran of game localization and also a teacher of the subject), but as he was so creative Kojima hated him and made sure all subsequent games had very literal and controlled english versions.
Yeah, probably why Kaku had such a hellish time on MGS2. Considering those constraints, I think she managed miracles.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited May 2021
Kojima's perpetual bane is that he desperately needs an editor with a human brain but he's always had too much of an ego to let a story not be entirely "his" story. And since he can't tell a story without over-telling a story, usually in large, indigestible chunks backed by other large, indigestible chunks hidden somewhere, that means an excruciating amount of babble burying something that might actually be really interesting.
If the version of MGS2 that we got is the sane version thanks to an almost-editor, I can't imagine how much of an obnoxious mess the story would've been with minimal deviation from Kojima's writing.
Ninja Snarl P on
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Kojima is one of those guys who has brilliant ideas, but needs an editor to reign him in. I'd let him write, but never let him direct.
(Kind of like the opposite of Nicolas Winding Refn.)
It's unfortunate he had a falling out with David Hayter, especially since he went so far out of his way to give up a lot of his own salary for the Twin Snakes to bring the original cast back. He's got an ego for sure.
Did Kojima actively do something to Hayter? Or is it what I suspect happened and he just fuckin' ghosted and "persona non grata" him for utterly no goddamn reason? They went to the effort of bringing in nearly all the old VA work in, including a side character who has all of like 5 seconds of dialog. If you want to do something different for the lead character that's one thing. But at the very least at this point you'd have enough respect to sit down and talk it over with your biggest star who is unilaterally celebrated in his role. But I guess he just blanked Hayter completely, and Hayter was just "What, there's making another MGS? News to fuckin' me.".
Yeah, I can see anybody being pissed off at that. Even if you've already made up your mind on the casting, what he can't have a cameo as some bit character? You telling me the King of Troll thinks it's too much if some random soldier coincidently sounds like Solid Snake? "Hmmm, I wonder if his genes are really yeah no I'm just fucking with you he's nobody". Have a character that looks like Raiden but talks like Solid Snake and watch the internet implode trying to make sense of it before revealing it was just a prank brah.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Kojima's work is a land of contrasts for sure. There's incredibly prescient, intelligent thinking behind stuff like the themes of MGS2, but then there's the really gross stuff with Quiet that only became more embarrassing the more he defended it. There's the impressive depth of systems in MGSV which contrasts with MGS4 being a not very well done movie for very long sections. Certain character writing being interesting and well done but then pun names, endless pun names, poo poo pee pee jokes, lol porno magazine jokes, etc.
It's unfortunate he had a falling out with David Hayter, especially since he went so far out of his way to give up a lot of his own salary for the Twin Snakes to bring the original cast back. He's got an ego for sure.
Did Kojima actively do something to Hayter? Or is it what I suspect happened and he just fuckin' ghosted and "persona non grata" him for utterly no goddamn reason? They went to the effort of bringing in nearly all the old VA work in, including a side character who has all of like 5 seconds of dialog. If you want to do something different for the lead character that's one thing. But at the very least at this point you'd have enough respect to sit down and talk it over with your biggest star who is unilaterally celebrated in his role. But I guess he just blanked Hayter completely, and Hayter was just "What, there's making another MGS? News to fuckin' me.".
Yeah, I can see anybody being pissed off at that. Even if you've already made up your mind on the casting, what he can't have a cameo as some bit character? You telling me the King of Troll thinks it's too much if some random soldier coincidently sounds like Solid Snake? "Hmmm, I wonder if his genes are really yeah no I'm just fucking with you he's nobody". Have a character that looks like Raiden but talks like Solid Snake and watch the internet implode trying to make sense of it before revealing it was just a prank brah.
As Hayter describes it, he just wasn't asked to come back. It was more that Kojima wanted, surprise, a big movie star in the role of Snake so Hollywood-sempai would notice him. Kojima was always polite, but Hayter gathered he just viewed him as an interchangeable employee, and didn't really appreciate how much he did to establish Metal Gear Solid and Solid Snake as an iconic character in the West.
manwiththemachinegun on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I have grown fond of his verbose style.
It is his charm.
I like all the overwriting in Death Stranding, for example.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I do wonder how much Tomokazu Fukushima had to do with the success, and how much he did or didn't impact Kojima's nonsense. He was a co-writer for MGS 1-3, aka the good ones.
I like all the overwriting in Death Stranding, for example.
If I was Bezos level rich, where money had long since ceased to have any meaning to me, I would seriously just pitch Kojima a videogame project where I give him a hundred and fifty million dollars, complete creative control, and a five year deadline just to see what pure insanity would come out of it.
I like all the overwriting in Death Stranding, for example.
If I was Bezos level rich, where money had long since ceased to have any meaning to me, I would seriously just pitch Kojima a videogame project where I give him a hundred and fifty million dollars, complete creative control, and a five year deadline just to see what pure insanity would come out of it.
Isn't that precisely what Death Stranding was?
Oh brilliant
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Kojima's work is a land of contrasts for sure. There's incredibly prescient, intelligent thinking behind stuff like the themes of MGS2, but then there's the really gross stuff with Quiet that only became more embarrassing the more he defended it. There's the impressive depth of systems in MGSV which contrasts with MGS4 being a not very well done movie for very long sections. Certain character writing being interesting and well done but then pun names, endless pun names, poo poo pee pee jokes, lol porno magazine jokes, etc.
You can see this dating all the way back to Snatcher and Policenauts. Clever writing, lots of indepth world building, out of nowhere trashy humor.
I do wonder how much Tomokazu Fukushima had to do with the success, and how much he did or didn't impact Kojima's nonsense. He was a co-writer for MGS 1-3, aka the good ones.
It's funny how MGS4 was considered a legitimate GOTY contender that year. It really was a different time.
It has its moments, like Act 4, but they are the exceptions, not the rule.
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
MGs4 is a genuinely good game with Kojima attention to detail that wraps up Snake's legacy. I remember the threads when it came out, and they were full of praise and people enjoying all the callbacks and references.
There's some interesting revisionism going on here.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Posts
How about demon slaying?
@TheWolfman
Wait.. what did Jennifer Hale do?
Hmmm 2: Sons of Liberty
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
Soon, perhaps, we will have the answer for Big Chungus.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Konami committing to videogames again probably only because some of their other sectors aren't doing so crash hot and (re-)diversifying again is, surprise, better for the overall health of the company
that olsen guy is currently livetweeting MGS2
Big Chungus?
I feel like anyone who missed mgs2 first time around is going to be so confused by the memes jazz sequence
Which is the mind blowing part. Like for so long that entire sequence was a fun joke my friends and I would reference, with the silly word meme being said over and over. Only for us to watch in horror as the word became a more and more used piece of vocabulary in broader society making us look the fools
Now I feel I may be living in some nightmare world.
His problem has never been his forward-thinking vision or thematic composition, it's more his utterly oblique interpretation of the English language and his idea of what constitutes a deep sentence re: translating Japanese wordplay into something that an English-speaking audience might actually consider meaningful
He desperately needs bilingual editors and translators in lockstep with his ideas, but also capable of exercising creative license to interpret his thoughts in a way that doesn't come off as garbled nonsense. Unfortunately given what we've read of him over the years, relinquishing creative control to co-creators as a creative equal rather than a lesser is something he's just not interested in
It's a dumbass word Richard Dawkins made up in 1976 to rhyme with gene.
Now, let me tell you about temes.
Its global spread exemplifies its own definition.
That's a pretty damn successful word creation.
Not to mention him infamously butting heads with actually competent localization staff who were unable to get him to work with them, i.e. Agness Kaku on MGS2.
http://web.archive.org/web/20120125211117/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/agnesskaku.htm#1
I think this was more Konami's fault, but it always sounded like he's pretty high on his own supply when it comes to letting people translate his text.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Source:
https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/18/20696081/metal-gear-solid-translation-japanese-english-jeremy-blaustein
Yeah, probably why Kaku had such a hellish time on MGS2. Considering those constraints, I think she managed miracles.
If the version of MGS2 that we got is the sane version thanks to an almost-editor, I can't imagine how much of an obnoxious mess the story would've been with minimal deviation from Kojima's writing.
(Kind of like the opposite of Nicolas Winding Refn.)
Did Kojima actively do something to Hayter? Or is it what I suspect happened and he just fuckin' ghosted and "persona non grata" him for utterly no goddamn reason? They went to the effort of bringing in nearly all the old VA work in, including a side character who has all of like 5 seconds of dialog. If you want to do something different for the lead character that's one thing. But at the very least at this point you'd have enough respect to sit down and talk it over with your biggest star who is unilaterally celebrated in his role. But I guess he just blanked Hayter completely, and Hayter was just "What, there's making another MGS? News to fuckin' me.".
Yeah, I can see anybody being pissed off at that. Even if you've already made up your mind on the casting, what he can't have a cameo as some bit character? You telling me the King of Troll thinks it's too much if some random soldier coincidently sounds like Solid Snake? "Hmmm, I wonder if his genes are really yeah no I'm just fucking with you he's nobody". Have a character that looks like Raiden but talks like Solid Snake and watch the internet implode trying to make sense of it before revealing it was just a prank brah.
As Hayter describes it, he just wasn't asked to come back. It was more that Kojima wanted, surprise, a big movie star in the role of Snake so Hollywood-sempai would notice him. Kojima was always polite, but Hayter gathered he just viewed him as an interchangeable employee, and didn't really appreciate how much he did to establish Metal Gear Solid and Solid Snake as an iconic character in the West.
It is his charm.
I like all the overwriting in Death Stranding, for example.
Did you know Die-Hardman's first name is John Die-Hardman?
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
If I was Bezos level rich, where money had long since ceased to have any meaning to me, I would seriously just pitch Kojima a videogame project where I give him a hundred and fifty million dollars, complete creative control, and a five year deadline just to see what pure insanity would come out of it.
Isn't that precisely what Death Stranding was?
You can see this dating all the way back to Snatcher and Policenauts. Clever writing, lots of indepth world building, out of nowhere trashy humor.
It's funny how MGS4 was considered a legitimate GOTY contender that year. It really was a different time.
It has its moments, like Act 4, but they are the exceptions, not the rule.
Steam | XBL
There's some interesting revisionism going on here.