And Chromie's kit works and is fun, but I am not sure if it's particularly well designed and it doesn't really fit the fantasy at all. She's basically a piece of hard hitting artillery that launches nukes in the enemy's general direction and hopefully scores some hits. They've made some of her time based gimmicks more prevalent, but silly time fuckery seems like it should be her bread and butter. Mind I don't really have much time on her at all so my read might be off.
Artanis is, swinging back to a discussion from yesterday, a hero that actually feels rushed. His entire kit remains half-baked, even after the rework. It was way worse originally but their attempts to make it all fit together feel like extremely well executed duct tape more then anything.
Fundamentally his kit just doesn't make much sense. It feels like they were still in the brainstorming stage, floating various ideas around and trying different things and then someone higher up said "This has to release with SC2" and they went "Oh shit, he's gotta be finalized TODAY then" and they just went with whatever they had.
I can't actually think of another hero that feels as disjointed.
Lunara's Q and E still feel janky as hell as part of her kit.
Don't agree at all.
Q is for AoE poison application and fits perfectly into the kit.
E is a vision tool because she's vulnerable if ambushed and she's got the space to have an extra ability like that considering her playstyle leans way more on her trait and her movement then on individual abilities.
And Chromie's kit works and is fun, but I am not sure if it's particularly well designed and it doesn't really fit the fantasy at all. She's basically a piece of hard hitting artillery that launches nukes in the enemy's general direction and hopefully scores some hits. They've made some of her time based gimmicks more prevalent, but silly time fuckery seems like it should be her bread and butter. Mind I don't really have much time on her at all so my read might be off.
It's debatable if she really fits her fantasy but her kit is well designed and all fits together really tightly. Q for her damage spam, W for her AoE big chunky nuke and E as a defensive tool.
Ugh. Screen grab from the recent Makign of KT videos shows/suggests they are working on Hanzo along with Alexstrasza.
We don't need any more goddamn OW heroes that aren't, like, Reinhardt. Or someone else that brings a new and interesting mechanic to the game rather then just mobility creep and boring bullshit.
+1
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Moreso my issue with Lunara's Q is that it just doesn't feel good. If it had a longer range maybe it'd be better but mediocre range and tiny radius is wonky.
Ugh. Screen grab from the recent Makign of KT videos shows/suggests they are working on Hanzo along with Alexstrasza.
We don't need any more goddamn OW heroes that aren't, like, Reinhardt. Or someone else that brings a new and interesting mechanic to the game rather then just mobility creep and boring bullshit.
I shouldn't be surprised. Hanzo is inexplicably REALLY popular. However he is like... the most boring possible Overwatch choice. His claim to fame from Overwatch is spamming unaimed projectiles in the enemy's general direction and getting lucky one shots as well as a really easy to use high damage nuke. At least he theoretically should not have crazy mobility creep since his only option is climbing up walls to get to better sniping positions. If he's accurate to OW though he'll just be a ranged auto-attack assassin with an AoE skill shot and a reveal/ward. If they went crazy and gave him a bunch of silly Green Arrow style trick arrows that could be neat, but would start to get away from boring overly serious Hanzo.
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now. That in and of itself makes him an interesting hero from a gameplay perspective, because he brings something new into the game. Whether or not you find the character himself interesting may be a separate question, as is whether or not another assassin is really needed right now.
Well, it's officially that time of the week again, where I don't have to work in the morning so I stay up late as hell streaming Hots and hate myself tomorrow when my kids wake me up at the ass crack of dawn.
Moreso my issue with Lunara's Q is that it just doesn't feel good. If it had a longer range maybe it'd be better but mediocre range and tiny radius is wonky.
I mean, sure, maybe it doesn't feel as good or as useful as you'd like it to. But it still makes sense as part of her kit.
The thing with Artanis is his kit is just kinda ... random. It's just a collection of odd abilities and doesn't cohere into any sort of vision of what he is. Especially his Q is just ... huh?
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now. That in and of itself makes him an interesting hero from a gameplay perspective, because he brings something new into the game. Whether or not you find the character himself interesting may be a separate question, as is whether or not another assassin is really needed right now.
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now. That in and of itself makes him an interesting hero from a gameplay perspective, because he brings something new into the game. Whether or not you find the character himself interesting may be a separate question, as is whether or not another assassin is really needed right now.
What part of his kit exactly?
Scatter shot and sonar arrow are both new to HotS, right? And his ult of course
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now. That in and of itself makes him an interesting hero from a gameplay perspective, because he brings something new into the game. Whether or not you find the character himself interesting may be a separate question, as is whether or not another assassin is really needed right now.
What part of his kit exactly?
Scatter shot and sonar arrow are both new to HotS, right? And his ult of course
Ehh.
Sonar Arrow is just an unkillable Scouting Drone/Wisp, not to mention stuff like Oracle or Peekaboo that fulfill the same general role.
His ult is just a slower/lingering Blunt Force Gun.
Scatter Shot, I suppose, but unless they want it to be the same BS insta-tank-kill in narrow corridors, it'd probably be similar in practice to any of the bazillion grenades, just with a differentish explosion effect ala Gilnean Cocktail.
+1
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now. That in and of itself makes him an interesting hero from a gameplay perspective, because he brings something new into the game. Whether or not you find the character himself interesting may be a separate question, as is whether or not another assassin is really needed right now.
What part of his kit exactly?
Scatter shot and sonar arrow are both new to HotS, right? And his ult of course
Ehh.
Sonar Arrow is just an unkillable Scouting Drone/Wisp, not to mention stuff like Oracle or Peekaboo that fulfill the same general role.
His ult is just a slower/lingering Blunt Force Gun.
Scatter Shot, I suppose, but unless they want it to be the same BS insta-tank-kill in narrow corridors, it'd probably be similar in practice to any of the bazillion grenades, just with a differentish explosion effect ala Gilnean Cocktail.
Targetted vision is a bigger deal than centered-on-your-self vision. The closest comparison is probably Rexxar's Flare, but Sonar Arrow would go a lot farther and impact faster.
That ult comparison is just bizarre. BFG is both not a DoT and not a persistent zoning ability; if your line for similar abilities is "they both do damage in a straight line" that's... questionable.
'nuke with a different way of aiming' is going to be an ability on a whole lot of new assassins.
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now. That in and of itself makes him an interesting hero from a gameplay perspective, because he brings something new into the game. Whether or not you find the character himself interesting may be a separate question, as is whether or not another assassin is really needed right now.
What part of his kit exactly?
Scatter shot and sonar arrow are both new to HotS, right? And his ult of course
Ehh.
Sonar Arrow is just an unkillable Scouting Drone/Wisp, not to mention stuff like Oracle or Peekaboo that fulfill the same general role.
His ult is just a slower/lingering Blunt Force Gun.
Scatter Shot, I suppose, but unless they want it to be the same BS insta-tank-kill in narrow corridors, it'd probably be similar in practice to any of the bazillion grenades, just with a differentish explosion effect ala Gilnean Cocktail.
Yeah, like, you could probably do something interesting with scattershot. But that's about it. His kit is fundamentally pretty dull. He shoots arrows.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited September 2017
Hey, you want to know something interesting to do with his kit of shooting arrows? Replace his autoattack with a charged skillshot.
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now. That in and of itself makes him an interesting hero from a gameplay perspective, because he brings something new into the game. Whether or not you find the character himself interesting may be a separate question, as is whether or not another assassin is really needed right now.
What part of his kit exactly?
Scatter shot and sonar arrow are both new to HotS, right? And his ult of course
Ehh.
Sonar Arrow is just an unkillable Scouting Drone/Wisp, not to mention stuff like Oracle or Peekaboo that fulfill the same general role.
His ult is just a slower/lingering Blunt Force Gun.
Scatter Shot, I suppose, but unless they want it to be the same BS insta-tank-kill in narrow corridors, it'd probably be similar in practice to any of the bazillion grenades, just with a differentish explosion effect ala Gilnean Cocktail.
Targetted vision is a bigger deal than centered-on-your-self vision. The closest comparison is probably Rexxar's Flare, but Sonar Arrow would go a lot farther and impact faster.
That ult comparison is just bizarre. BFG is both not a DoT and not a persistent zoning ability; if your line for similar abilities is "they both do damage in a straight line" that's... questionable.
'nuke with a different way of aiming' is going to be an ability on a whole lot of new assassins.
Timewalker's Pursuit then, except shittier because you have to be able to shoot at the spot.
If the only differences are that it's slower, shorter, and does DoT instead of all up front, that's close enough for me. Alternatively, a fat, slow un-retargetable Disintegrate too. Or a Lava Wave where you get to choose the origin and direction of the wave.
These specific tweaked things don't exist as abilities, yes, but there are definitely things already there in similar design spaces.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now. That in and of itself makes him an interesting hero from a gameplay perspective, because he brings something new into the game. Whether or not you find the character himself interesting may be a separate question, as is whether or not another assassin is really needed right now.
What part of his kit exactly?
Scatter shot and sonar arrow are both new to HotS, right? And his ult of course
Ehh.
Sonar Arrow is just an unkillable Scouting Drone/Wisp, not to mention stuff like Oracle or Peekaboo that fulfill the same general role.
His ult is just a slower/lingering Blunt Force Gun.
Scatter Shot, I suppose, but unless they want it to be the same BS insta-tank-kill in narrow corridors, it'd probably be similar in practice to any of the bazillion grenades, just with a differentish explosion effect ala Gilnean Cocktail.
Targetted vision is a bigger deal than centered-on-your-self vision. The closest comparison is probably Rexxar's Flare, but Sonar Arrow would go a lot farther and impact faster.
That ult comparison is just bizarre. BFG is both not a DoT and not a persistent zoning ability; if your line for similar abilities is "they both do damage in a straight line" that's... questionable.
'nuke with a different way of aiming' is going to be an ability on a whole lot of new assassins.
Timewalker's Pursuit then, except shittier because you have to be able to shoot at the spot.
If the only differences are that it's slower, shorter, and does DoT instead of all up front, that's close enough for me. Alternatively, a fat, slow un-retargetable Disintegrate too. Or a Lava Wave where you get to choose the origin and direction of the wave.
These specific tweaked things don't exist as abilities, yes, but there are definitely things already there in similar design spaces.
It doesn't root you like Disintegrate, and would almost surely do way more damage. It starts actually in the fight unlike Lava Wave so you can feasibly hit heroes with it. These comparisons are nonsensical. Like, by your logic Rain of Vengeance and Sundering might as well be the same ultimate, they're straight line high damage and stun abilities.
Timewalker's Pursuit is a talent you have to take and give up other talents for. Having it as part of the base kit like Wisp or Oracle is a bonus in and of itself (although I'd rather it not be a basic ability, but rather the trait or on the active bar).
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Waffles or whateverPreviously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen"Registered Userregular
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now. That in and of itself makes him an interesting hero from a gameplay perspective, because he brings something new into the game. Whether or not you find the character himself interesting may be a separate question, as is whether or not another assassin is really needed right now.
What part of his kit exactly?
Scatter shot and sonar arrow are both new to HotS, right? And his ult of course
Ehh.
Sonar Arrow is just an unkillable Scouting Drone/Wisp, not to mention stuff like Oracle or Peekaboo that fulfill the same general role.
His ult is just a slower/lingering Blunt Force Gun.
Scatter Shot, I suppose, but unless they want it to be the same BS insta-tank-kill in narrow corridors, it'd probably be similar in practice to any of the bazillion grenades, just with a differentish explosion effect ala Gilnean Cocktail.
Targetted vision is a bigger deal than centered-on-your-self vision. The closest comparison is probably Rexxar's Flare, but Sonar Arrow would go a lot farther and impact faster.
That ult comparison is just bizarre. BFG is both not a DoT and not a persistent zoning ability; if your line for similar abilities is "they both do damage in a straight line" that's... questionable.
'nuke with a different way of aiming' is going to be an ability on a whole lot of new assassins.
Timewalker's Pursuit then, except shittier because you have to be able to shoot at the spot.
If the only differences are that it's slower, shorter, and does DoT instead of all up front, that's close enough for me. Alternatively, a fat, slow un-retargetable Disintegrate too. Or a Lava Wave where you get to choose the origin and direction of the wave.
These specific tweaked things don't exist as abilities, yes, but there are definitely things already there in similar design spaces.
It doesn't root you like Disintegrate, and would almost surely do way more damage. It starts actually in the fight unlike Lava Wave so you can feasibly hit heroes with it. These comparisons are nonsensical. Like, by your logic Rain of Vengeance and Sundering might as well be the same ultimate, they're straight line high damage and stun abilities.
Timewalker's Pursuit is a talent you have to take and give up other talents for. Having it as part of the base kit like Wisp or Oracle is a bonus in and of itself (although I'd rather it not be a basic ability, but rather the trait or on the active bar).
What I'm arguing against is
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now.
I'm pointing out that they do, not that they're already all in the same character, or as baseline abilities, or in the same narrow usage 100% of the time in all situations. Nothing he has would be filling a design space that doesn't already exist to a greater or lesser extent among other characters. Not that there's anything wrong with that (see: Orisa), but there are already pretty solid analogs to just about everything he can do out there. Hell, even in Overwatch, his kit isn't particularly interesting or unique.
+1
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now. That in and of itself makes him an interesting hero from a gameplay perspective, because he brings something new into the game. Whether or not you find the character himself interesting may be a separate question, as is whether or not another assassin is really needed right now.
What part of his kit exactly?
Scatter shot and sonar arrow are both new to HotS, right? And his ult of course
Ehh.
Sonar Arrow is just an unkillable Scouting Drone/Wisp, not to mention stuff like Oracle or Peekaboo that fulfill the same general role.
His ult is just a slower/lingering Blunt Force Gun.
Scatter Shot, I suppose, but unless they want it to be the same BS insta-tank-kill in narrow corridors, it'd probably be similar in practice to any of the bazillion grenades, just with a differentish explosion effect ala Gilnean Cocktail.
Targetted vision is a bigger deal than centered-on-your-self vision. The closest comparison is probably Rexxar's Flare, but Sonar Arrow would go a lot farther and impact faster.
That ult comparison is just bizarre. BFG is both not a DoT and not a persistent zoning ability; if your line for similar abilities is "they both do damage in a straight line" that's... questionable.
'nuke with a different way of aiming' is going to be an ability on a whole lot of new assassins.
Timewalker's Pursuit then, except shittier because you have to be able to shoot at the spot.
If the only differences are that it's slower, shorter, and does DoT instead of all up front, that's close enough for me. Alternatively, a fat, slow un-retargetable Disintegrate too. Or a Lava Wave where you get to choose the origin and direction of the wave.
These specific tweaked things don't exist as abilities, yes, but there are definitely things already there in similar design spaces.
It doesn't root you like Disintegrate, and would almost surely do way more damage. It starts actually in the fight unlike Lava Wave so you can feasibly hit heroes with it. These comparisons are nonsensical. Like, by your logic Rain of Vengeance and Sundering might as well be the same ultimate, they're straight line high damage and stun abilities.
Timewalker's Pursuit is a talent you have to take and give up other talents for. Having it as part of the base kit like Wisp or Oracle is a bonus in and of itself (although I'd rather it not be a basic ability, but rather the trait or on the active bar).
What I'm arguing against is
Hanzo's kit largely doesn't exist in HotS right now.
I'm pointing out that they do, not that they're already all in the same character, or as baseline abilities, or in the same narrow usage 100% of the time in all situations. Nothing he has would be filling a design space that doesn't already exist to a greater or lesser extent among other characters. Not that there's anything wrong with that (see: Orisa), but there are already pretty solid analogs to just about everything he can do out there. Hell, even in Overwatch, his kit isn't particularly interesting or unique.
I mean... okay, but that's still not an argument against what you pointed out. A kit is, well, a kit--it's the entire package. How the abilities interact and lead to the heroes' playstyle is what their kit is, not each individual ability taken on their own. If you gave Butcher BFG it'd play out a lot differently than it does on Hammer, because it fits into his kit very differently.
Edit: Like, the bar I'd put for "it's a kit we don't have in the game" is "playing this hero doesn't feel like I'm playing another hero."
The Escape Goat on
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Hey, you want to know something interesting to do with his kit of shooting arrows? Replace his autoattack with a charged skillshot.
That's exactly what I was talking about. His basic attack mechanic is fundamentally different from everyone else's. I'd be curious if they implemented it as it exists in Overwatch or if they are going to split up the basics and the charged shots. If all of his basic attacks where, in effect, skill shots, and he had to decide whether to spam short-range weak arrows or charge up long-range stronger arrows, that would make him pretty different, especially if he has limited move speed while charging up.
I also can't think of any abilities like Scatter Arrow, which use terrain to bounce off.
And wall climbing might be similar to Genji's D (or Illidan's talented W, or E.T.C.'s talented Q), but I think if they made it specific to structures and had it so that he always lands on the same spot opposite of the wall from where he started climbing, then that would be different enough and not nearly as powerful as other mobility skills.
Anyway, his kit is different enough that it's not a straight replica of other heroes' kits that are already in the game. I get that people are fatigued with Overwatch heroes and assassins and weeb ninjas, but if he's evaluated purely on the merits of his kit I think we could do a lot worse.
For the record I would prefer another tank, especially Reinhardt, Winston, and the Firebat. But if Hanzo is on the list I'm not disappointed. Especially if he helps to bring more players to the game.
I'm not even particularly fatigued by Overwatch heroes. I just think out of all of them Hanzo is super boring, and while he MIGHT have a super unique kit that plays entirely different than any other character, I have my doubts since part of Hanzo's popularity in Overwatch is that in practice he's super low skill. Hanzo is even more popular than Genji in Overwatch and part of that is that Hanzo is easy to use where as Genji actually requires a high skill level.
Plus getting another assassin over the various specialists and warriors available from Overwatch is kind of irritating. Doesn't really go deeper than that.
I'm not even particularly fatigued by Overwatch heroes. I just think out of all of them Hanzo is super boring, and while he MIGHT have a super unique kit that plays entirely different than any other character, I have my doubts since part of Hanzo's popularity in Overwatch is that in practice he's super low skill. Hanzo is even more popular than Genji in Overwatch and part of that is that Hanzo is easy to use where as Genji actually requires a high skill level.
Plus getting another assassin over the various specialists and warriors available from Overwatch is kind of irritating. Doesn't really go deeper than that.
As someone who's spent the last few years getting good at projectile character in FPSs, this "Hanzo is low skill" refrain is pretty annoying. Sure, you can just lob arrows, but you do so much dramatically better with him if you actually aim. A good night of Hanzo and a bad night for me is massive, and if he was skilless that wouldn't be the case (like, I'll readily admit Junkrat has a very low skill floor, Hanzo is notably higher). He's popular because he's fun, and people tend to gravitate towards sniper characters to begin with (and yes, he is easier than Widow).
I'd say it's less that Hanzo is low skill, it's just that an arrow headshot is so powerful that even a bottom of the barrel player can get kills eventually just by rolling the dice enough.
A lot of people don't chat when in game. By default, you leave the chat when in game too, so people can't even respond when they get out because they can't see those messages
lunara's Q is weird because the only thing in common it has with every other part of her kit as well as her talents is that it applies poison
they wanted a way to apply poison from a distance outside of auto range but it results in a very mage-y generic skill on an otherwise focused (minus E) character
I'm not even particularly fatigued by Overwatch heroes. I just think out of all of them Hanzo is super boring, and while he MIGHT have a super unique kit that plays entirely different than any other character, I have my doubts since part of Hanzo's popularity in Overwatch is that in practice he's super low skill. Hanzo is even more popular than Genji in Overwatch and part of that is that Hanzo is easy to use where as Genji actually requires a high skill level.
Plus getting another assassin over the various specialists and warriors available from Overwatch is kind of irritating. Doesn't really go deeper than that.
As someone who's spent the last few years getting good at projectile character in FPSs, this "Hanzo is low skill" refrain is pretty annoying. Sure, you can just lob arrows, but you do so much dramatically better with him if you actually aim. A good night of Hanzo and a bad night for me is massive, and if he was skilless that wouldn't be the case (like, I'll readily admit Junkrat has a very low skill floor, Hanzo is notably higher). He's popular because he's fun, and people tend to gravitate towards sniper characters to begin with (and yes, he is easier than Widow).
I didn't say he was easy mode or skill less, or that he didn't have a high skill ceiling. So agreed?
He is however a character that will be rewarding at low skill levels because any glancing hit with his very generous projectiles is going to deal heavy damage. This is part of the reason for his extreme popularity and part of the reason snipers are so popular in general. And Hanzo is easier than most snipers.
I was honestly surprised to find that no talent allowed the Wisp to explode into spores on expiration or death. Seemed kind of obvious, but maybe too strong?
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
Hm, so I lose at this game. A lot. Any recommendations for resources to help me not suck so much?
1) Learn how to stutter step.
2) MFPallyTime is a great, positive streamer who has a lot of good general info for new players
3) Find a handful of heroes that you really enjoy playing and stick with them for a while. This makes it easier for you to pick up other skills that aren't directly related to a given hero's micro (i.e., if you have to think about what buttons to press, you are not going to be able to focus on anything else).
4) Learn how to look at the minimap every few seconds. Every time you don't see the enemy team, assume they are about to gank you wherever you are. Every time you do see them, think about what you can do to take advantage of that information (if at all).
5) Don't use skills or shoot the enemy just because you can. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, especially for longer cooldowns that are the major source of your damage or that cost a lot of mana (e.g., Jaina should not be spamming Cone of Cold, Malfurion should not be spamming Entangling Roots).
6) Count before any engagement. It sounds so stupid that it has become a meme ("my teammates are so dumb they can't count and just run up to the enemy team and die"). But it's very important. HotS is a game that is fundamentally designed around teamwork and numbers. It is very rare that you will be able to win any given engagement with a numerical disadvantage. A 4v5 fight is a massive disparity, and only gets worse the lower the numbers get or the bigger the difference.
7) Talent tiers matter (4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 20). Generally you do not want to fight if your team is down a talent tier (e.g., your team is level 9 and the enemy team is level 10). Conversely, you do want to fight or take advantage of something on the map if your team is up a talent tier. Levels 10 and 20 are the biggest power differentials, but the others matter enough to track.
8) Slightly more advanced: Track cooldowns. At first you may only be able to do this in a 1v1 situation, but as time passes you will get more proficient at it. Look at what the enemy team can do. Watch when they use those abilities, particularly strong CC ones. When those abilities are used, your margin of safety is much higher because they can't "counter" you if you attack them - they can only auto attack you in return.
Hey, you want to know something interesting to do with his kit of shooting arrows? Replace his autoattack with a charged skillshot.
That's exactly what I was talking about. His basic attack mechanic is fundamentally different from everyone else's. I'd be curious if they implemented it as it exists in Overwatch or if they are going to split up the basics and the charged shots. If all of his basic attacks where, in effect, skill shots, and he had to decide whether to spam short-range weak arrows or charge up long-range stronger arrows, that would make him pretty different, especially if he has limited move speed while charging up.
I also can't think of any abilities like Scatter Arrow, which use terrain to bounce off.
And wall climbing might be similar to Genji's D (or Illidan's talented W, or E.T.C.'s talented Q), but I think if they made it specific to structures and had it so that he always lands on the same spot opposite of the wall from where he started climbing, then that would be different enough and not nearly as powerful as other mobility skills.
Anyway, his kit is different enough that it's not a straight replica of other heroes' kits that are already in the game. I get that people are fatigued with Overwatch heroes and assassins and weeb ninjas, but if he's evaluated purely on the merits of his kit I think we could do a lot worse.
For the record I would prefer another tank, especially Reinhardt, Winston, and the Firebat. But if Hanzo is on the list I'm not disappointed. Especially if he helps to bring more players to the game.
That's all based on an assumption about them replacing his AAs or something. The rest is pretty eh. There's nothing there fundamentally new or interesting. Especially compared to alternatives from OW. He's just a really bland hero.
Hm, so I lose at this game. A lot. Any recommendations for resources to help me not suck so much?
Are you just starting out with Quick Match or AI games? Especially in the former case, try queueing up with some PA people. If you want to group up let me know and we can play some games.
finnith on
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Waffles or whateverPreviously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen"Registered Userregular
Is there a hidden skill rating or something for random matches? All evening and night has been pug stomps courtesy of the match making system.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
8) Slightly more advanced: Track cooldowns. At first you may only be able to do this in a 1v1 situation, but as time passes you will get more proficient at it. Look at what the enemy team can do. Watch when they use those abilities, particularly strong CC ones. When those abilities are used, your margin of safety is much higher because they can't "counter" you if you attack them - they can only auto attack you in return.
I tend to watch out the most for mobility cooldowns, I think. Like, did Muradin just Dwarf Toss a little out of position? Did Sylvanas use Haunting Wave offensively? Did Valla just Vault in to get a little extra damage? Did Tassadar take a little too much heat trying to stack up his AA quest, and he had to blow Dimensional Shift? In each of the cases I mentioned, those heroes are incredibly vulnerable for a few moments, and you need to be able to capitalize on that vulnerability.
5) Don't use skills or shoot the enemy just because you can. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, especially for longer cooldowns that are the major source of your damage or that cost a lot of mana (e.g., Jaina should not be spamming Cone of Cold, Malfurion should not be spamming Entangling Roots).
This is one of the most important things you can learn, as far as I'm concerned. I still see people getting it wrong in Diamond / Masters. You have to think about how you're trading with enemy players, particularly early in the match. It's obvious that you should always be trading advantageously, if possible, but I'm not sure folks always understand what that means. It isn't just about health; it's about all of your resources: health; mana; well tap status; cooldowns; etc. When you're playing Anub'arak, for example, and you're tossing Impales out at the enemy team while you're in lane, what's that accomplishing? On it's own, Impale does no real damage, and costs you 65 mana on top of the 12-second cooldown, meaning that, for the next 12 seconds, you don't have it available to peel a gank. Anub'arak also has considerable mana issues, so you want to make certain you're trading out your mana and cooldowns efficiently. Even if you hit two enemy players with your Impale, you've done what, 200 damage? Supports are going to really efficiently heal that damage up, or enemy players are just going to grab a globe and nullify your poke, or whatever. In all seriousness, you've probably traded down in that scenario, just in terms of resources, by throwing Impale when you really didn't need to.
Also, just be aware of what enemy heroes can do: Muradin heals really quickly when he's outside of combat, so there's literally no reason to even spend resources to attack him unless you're reasonably certain you can kill him; Brightwing functions in a similar manner, but she heals up the entire enemy team. Any time you're spending resources to harass these heroes, you're literally trading down unless you can make something out of it.
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Don't agree at all.
Q is for AoE poison application and fits perfectly into the kit.
E is a vision tool because she's vulnerable if ambushed and she's got the space to have an extra ability like that considering her playstyle leans way more on her trait and her movement then on individual abilities.
It's debatable if she really fits her fantasy but her kit is well designed and all fits together really tightly. Q for her damage spam, W for her AoE big chunky nuke and E as a defensive tool.
It just feels horrible to have it as an actual ability.
If Xul can have Bone Armor on 1, there's no reason why Lunara can't have Wisp on 1.
And then give her a new E or somethin' idk.
Q feels fine though.
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We don't need any more goddamn OW heroes that aren't, like, Reinhardt. Or someone else that brings a new and interesting mechanic to the game rather then just mobility creep and boring bullshit.
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I shouldn't be surprised. Hanzo is inexplicably REALLY popular. However he is like... the most boring possible Overwatch choice. His claim to fame from Overwatch is spamming unaimed projectiles in the enemy's general direction and getting lucky one shots as well as a really easy to use high damage nuke. At least he theoretically should not have crazy mobility creep since his only option is climbing up walls to get to better sniping positions. If he's accurate to OW though he'll just be a ranged auto-attack assassin with an AoE skill shot and a reveal/ward. If they went crazy and gave him a bunch of silly Green Arrow style trick arrows that could be neat, but would start to get away from boring overly serious Hanzo.
I mean, sure, maybe it doesn't feel as good or as useful as you'd like it to. But it still makes sense as part of her kit.
The thing with Artanis is his kit is just kinda ... random. It's just a collection of odd abilities and doesn't cohere into any sort of vision of what he is. Especially his Q is just ... huh?
What part of his kit exactly?
Scatter shot and sonar arrow are both new to HotS, right? And his ult of course
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Ehh.
Sonar Arrow is just an unkillable Scouting Drone/Wisp, not to mention stuff like Oracle or Peekaboo that fulfill the same general role.
His ult is just a slower/lingering Blunt Force Gun.
Scatter Shot, I suppose, but unless they want it to be the same BS insta-tank-kill in narrow corridors, it'd probably be similar in practice to any of the bazillion grenades, just with a differentish explosion effect ala Gilnean Cocktail.
Targetted vision is a bigger deal than centered-on-your-self vision. The closest comparison is probably Rexxar's Flare, but Sonar Arrow would go a lot farther and impact faster.
That ult comparison is just bizarre. BFG is both not a DoT and not a persistent zoning ability; if your line for similar abilities is "they both do damage in a straight line" that's... questionable.
'nuke with a different way of aiming' is going to be an ability on a whole lot of new assassins.
Yeah, like, you could probably do something interesting with scattershot. But that's about it. His kit is fundamentally pretty dull. He shoots arrows.
Timewalker's Pursuit then, except shittier because you have to be able to shoot at the spot.
If the only differences are that it's slower, shorter, and does DoT instead of all up front, that's close enough for me. Alternatively, a fat, slow un-retargetable Disintegrate too. Or a Lava Wave where you get to choose the origin and direction of the wave.
These specific tweaked things don't exist as abilities, yes, but there are definitely things already there in similar design spaces.
It doesn't root you like Disintegrate, and would almost surely do way more damage. It starts actually in the fight unlike Lava Wave so you can feasibly hit heroes with it. These comparisons are nonsensical. Like, by your logic Rain of Vengeance and Sundering might as well be the same ultimate, they're straight line high damage and stun abilities.
Timewalker's Pursuit is a talent you have to take and give up other talents for. Having it as part of the base kit like Wisp or Oracle is a bonus in and of itself (although I'd rather it not be a basic ability, but rather the trait or on the active bar).
What I'm arguing against is
I'm pointing out that they do, not that they're already all in the same character, or as baseline abilities, or in the same narrow usage 100% of the time in all situations. Nothing he has would be filling a design space that doesn't already exist to a greater or lesser extent among other characters. Not that there's anything wrong with that (see: Orisa), but there are already pretty solid analogs to just about everything he can do out there. Hell, even in Overwatch, his kit isn't particularly interesting or unique.
I mean... okay, but that's still not an argument against what you pointed out. A kit is, well, a kit--it's the entire package. How the abilities interact and lead to the heroes' playstyle is what their kit is, not each individual ability taken on their own. If you gave Butcher BFG it'd play out a lot differently than it does on Hammer, because it fits into his kit very differently.
Edit: Like, the bar I'd put for "it's a kit we don't have in the game" is "playing this hero doesn't feel like I'm playing another hero."
That's exactly what I was talking about. His basic attack mechanic is fundamentally different from everyone else's. I'd be curious if they implemented it as it exists in Overwatch or if they are going to split up the basics and the charged shots. If all of his basic attacks where, in effect, skill shots, and he had to decide whether to spam short-range weak arrows or charge up long-range stronger arrows, that would make him pretty different, especially if he has limited move speed while charging up.
I also can't think of any abilities like Scatter Arrow, which use terrain to bounce off.
And wall climbing might be similar to Genji's D (or Illidan's talented W, or E.T.C.'s talented Q), but I think if they made it specific to structures and had it so that he always lands on the same spot opposite of the wall from where he started climbing, then that would be different enough and not nearly as powerful as other mobility skills.
Anyway, his kit is different enough that it's not a straight replica of other heroes' kits that are already in the game. I get that people are fatigued with Overwatch heroes and assassins and weeb ninjas, but if he's evaluated purely on the merits of his kit I think we could do a lot worse.
For the record I would prefer another tank, especially Reinhardt, Winston, and the Firebat. But if Hanzo is on the list I'm not disappointed. Especially if he helps to bring more players to the game.
Plus getting another assassin over the various specialists and warriors available from Overwatch is kind of irritating. Doesn't really go deeper than that.
As someone who's spent the last few years getting good at projectile character in FPSs, this "Hanzo is low skill" refrain is pretty annoying. Sure, you can just lob arrows, but you do so much dramatically better with him if you actually aim. A good night of Hanzo and a bad night for me is massive, and if he was skilless that wouldn't be the case (like, I'll readily admit Junkrat has a very low skill floor, Hanzo is notably higher). He's popular because he's fun, and people tend to gravitate towards sniper characters to begin with (and yes, he is easier than Widow).
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they wanted a way to apply poison from a distance outside of auto range but it results in a very mage-y generic skill on an otherwise focused (minus E) character
I didn't say he was easy mode or skill less, or that he didn't have a high skill ceiling. So agreed?
He is however a character that will be rewarding at low skill levels because any glancing hit with his very generous projectiles is going to deal heavy damage. This is part of the reason for his extreme popularity and part of the reason snipers are so popular in general. And Hanzo is easier than most snipers.
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1) Learn how to stutter step.
2) MFPallyTime is a great, positive streamer who has a lot of good general info for new players
3) Find a handful of heroes that you really enjoy playing and stick with them for a while. This makes it easier for you to pick up other skills that aren't directly related to a given hero's micro (i.e., if you have to think about what buttons to press, you are not going to be able to focus on anything else).
4) Learn how to look at the minimap every few seconds. Every time you don't see the enemy team, assume they are about to gank you wherever you are. Every time you do see them, think about what you can do to take advantage of that information (if at all).
5) Don't use skills or shoot the enemy just because you can. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, especially for longer cooldowns that are the major source of your damage or that cost a lot of mana (e.g., Jaina should not be spamming Cone of Cold, Malfurion should not be spamming Entangling Roots).
6) Count before any engagement. It sounds so stupid that it has become a meme ("my teammates are so dumb they can't count and just run up to the enemy team and die"). But it's very important. HotS is a game that is fundamentally designed around teamwork and numbers. It is very rare that you will be able to win any given engagement with a numerical disadvantage. A 4v5 fight is a massive disparity, and only gets worse the lower the numbers get or the bigger the difference.
7) Talent tiers matter (4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 20). Generally you do not want to fight if your team is down a talent tier (e.g., your team is level 9 and the enemy team is level 10). Conversely, you do want to fight or take advantage of something on the map if your team is up a talent tier. Levels 10 and 20 are the biggest power differentials, but the others matter enough to track.
8) Slightly more advanced: Track cooldowns. At first you may only be able to do this in a 1v1 situation, but as time passes you will get more proficient at it. Look at what the enemy team can do. Watch when they use those abilities, particularly strong CC ones. When those abilities are used, your margin of safety is much higher because they can't "counter" you if you attack them - they can only auto attack you in return.
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That's all based on an assumption about them replacing his AAs or something. The rest is pretty eh. There's nothing there fundamentally new or interesting. Especially compared to alternatives from OW. He's just a really bland hero.
Are you just starting out with Quick Match or AI games? Especially in the former case, try queueing up with some PA people. If you want to group up let me know and we can play some games.
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If you mean Quick Match, yes, there's MMR for it. Weekend HotS is notoriously inconsistent, though--and this is a holiday weekend to boot.
I tend to watch out the most for mobility cooldowns, I think. Like, did Muradin just Dwarf Toss a little out of position? Did Sylvanas use Haunting Wave offensively? Did Valla just Vault in to get a little extra damage? Did Tassadar take a little too much heat trying to stack up his AA quest, and he had to blow Dimensional Shift? In each of the cases I mentioned, those heroes are incredibly vulnerable for a few moments, and you need to be able to capitalize on that vulnerability.
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This is one of the most important things you can learn, as far as I'm concerned. I still see people getting it wrong in Diamond / Masters. You have to think about how you're trading with enemy players, particularly early in the match. It's obvious that you should always be trading advantageously, if possible, but I'm not sure folks always understand what that means. It isn't just about health; it's about all of your resources: health; mana; well tap status; cooldowns; etc. When you're playing Anub'arak, for example, and you're tossing Impales out at the enemy team while you're in lane, what's that accomplishing? On it's own, Impale does no real damage, and costs you 65 mana on top of the 12-second cooldown, meaning that, for the next 12 seconds, you don't have it available to peel a gank. Anub'arak also has considerable mana issues, so you want to make certain you're trading out your mana and cooldowns efficiently. Even if you hit two enemy players with your Impale, you've done what, 200 damage? Supports are going to really efficiently heal that damage up, or enemy players are just going to grab a globe and nullify your poke, or whatever. In all seriousness, you've probably traded down in that scenario, just in terms of resources, by throwing Impale when you really didn't need to.
Also, just be aware of what enemy heroes can do: Muradin heals really quickly when he's outside of combat, so there's literally no reason to even spend resources to attack him unless you're reasonably certain you can kill him; Brightwing functions in a similar manner, but she heals up the entire enemy team. Any time you're spending resources to harass these heroes, you're literally trading down unless you can make something out of it.