It's a [Doom/Quake]! id Software's Classic Legacy of Eternal Carnage

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  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    re hayden:
    samuel hayden
    s. hayden

    satan

    its not subtle

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael for further obviousness

    satan destroys humans with knowledge...
    Hayden's true form:
    lxdua4litbyy.png

    Synthesis
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    re hayden:
    samuel hayden
    s. hayden

    satan

    its not subtle

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael for further obviousness

    satan destroys humans with knowledge...
    Hayden's true form:
    lxdua4litbyy.png

    Oooooh, bad choice on his part.

    Doomguy just lives for the drum solo.

    MancingtomfurlionFencingsax
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Oh my god marauders are bullshit.

    Okay, you can go back to your conversation now, I just needed to say that.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    FencingsaxSyphonBlueDavid Walgas
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    I have heard that it's possible to stun the Marauder and then quick-switch to the BFG for a quick kill. I haven't had a chance to try it myself, but burning a BFG shot to take down the Marauder immediately would absolutely be worth it every time.

  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    There’s several reasons I don’t think Hayden is
    the character that gave doomguy his powers. For one, why would he not tell Vega who he is? It seems more like he’s the one who stole Vega from the makyrs, and repurposed him for his own ends. This all started when the Father disappeared, so whoever is responsible for that disappearance either intentionally or unintentionally started the whole mess. Maybe it’s Samuel Hayden trying to atone for stealing Father and causing all this? But that doesn’t explain why he wouldn’t tell Vega, or why he would be so into argent energy

    Also the makyrs were essentially innocent good guys until Father disappeared and they began to fear the transfiguration. So if Hayden is the one who turned the doom guy into a god to fight the demons, why would he also be the one who caused the Makyrs to lose their father and also turn to argent energy and a pact with hell?

    Also Samuel Hayden is using argent energy in the first game and seems genuinely annoyed at what doom guy is doing to disrupt that. It’s possible he created the doom guy and then lost control of him, but it doesn’t fit to me. The character who created doom guy seems to do so precisely in order to disrupt the Makyrs use of argent energy and their pact with hell.

    If Samuel Hayden is the Makyr who both took father away and turned him into Vega, and created doom guy to undo his own mistake, it will take some retconning of 2016 Samuel Hayden, which honestly is fine. But I’m hoping it’s a bit more complicated than that

  • PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    Look who I found!
    tag2bm82beoy.jpeg

    A follow up to that, I found something out of place on my playthrough and just remembered I'd snapped a screenshot of it!
    41yzvkfs4ccb.jpg[/doom]

    Definitely got a 'wait...what?' as I'm running around shotgunning demons in the face.

    Speaking of which, I know the 2v1 multiplayer is the main things for this, but there was talk of people (friends? Random folks?) being able to join someone's campaign playthrough as a demon and try to take them down. Did that get abandoned entirely for the asymmetrical MP mode, or is that still present?

    Invasions is supposed to be coming at some later point.

    Switch: SW-6132-4331-5349 || Steam
    Forar
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Prohass wrote: »
    There’s several reasons I don’t think Hayden is
    the character that gave doomguy his powers. For one, why would he not tell Vega who he is? It seems more like he’s the one who stole Vega from the makyrs, and repurposed him for his own ends. This all started when the Father disappeared, so whoever is responsible for that disappearance either intentionally or unintentionally started the whole mess. Maybe it’s Samuel Hayden trying to atone for stealing Father and causing all this? But that doesn’t explain why he wouldn’t tell Vega, or why he would be so into argent energy

    Also the makyrs were essentially innocent good guys until Father disappeared and they began to fear the transfiguration. So if Hayden is the one who turned the doom guy into a god to fight the demons, why would he also be the one who caused the Makyrs to lose their father and also turn to argent energy and a pact with hell?

    Also Samuel Hayden is using argent energy in the first game and seems genuinely annoyed at what doom guy is doing to disrupt that. It’s possible he created the doom guy and then lost control of him, but it doesn’t fit to me. The character who created doom guy seems to do so precisely in order to disrupt the Makyrs use of argent energy and their pact with hell.

    If Samuel Hayden is the Makyr who both took father away and turned him into Vega, and created doom guy to undo his own mistake, it will take some retconning of 2016 Samuel Hayden, which honestly is fine. But I’m hoping it’s a bit more complicated than that
    I dunno, Hayden seem to very much be the "things would be fine if *I* was in charge" sort, and he's doing everything he can to get there. Vega also seems to be pretty obedient, so why would it matter if Hayden told him the truth? Vega still cooperates 100%, and there's no reason for Hayden to expose himself. He literally says at one point that things would have been better under "different leadership" when talking about the Makyr's, which really strongly suggests he has personal knowledge of what went down. He's also big on using others to get things done for him, so it lines up that he sets up Doomguy as a tool against Hell and Vega as a tool against the Makyrs. With Hell and the Makyrs both defeated, he's now in a place to take over for himself without being in Doomguy's sights.

    As for him getting pissed off at Doomguy in the last game, well, Hayden had figured out a way to take the power of the Makyr's and Hell and use it for himself, and Doomguy was smashing it up. Humanity looks to be his willing sucker on that score, which is why he's trying to keep them alive; Hayden doesn't really seem to care what is being done to humanity, only that it's being done stupidly and inefficiently. And he had Doomguy safely locked down, so he didn't have to wonder about him ripping in from somewhere and tearing all his plans a new one.

    But it's all conjecture anyway.

    Ninja Snarl P on
    furlion
  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    re hayden:
    samuel hayden
    s. hayden

    satan

    its not subtle

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael for further obviousness

    satan destroys humans with knowledge...

    I like this
    I didn’t even think of that, but would be cool. Maykers kicked him out of his own home and this is how he is taking back his throne. I mean as much as he is helping you he does sound evil. The comment he makes about better leadership fits in nicely as well then.

  • JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Prohass wrote: »
    There’s several reasons I don’t think Hayden is
    the character that gave doomguy his powers. For one, why would he not tell Vega who he is? It seems more like he’s the one who stole Vega from the makyrs, and repurposed him for his own ends. This all started when the Father disappeared, so whoever is responsible for that disappearance either intentionally or unintentionally started the whole mess. Maybe it’s Samuel Hayden trying to atone for stealing Father and causing all this? But that doesn’t explain why he wouldn’t tell Vega, or why he would be so into argent energy

    Also the makyrs were essentially innocent good guys until Father disappeared and they began to fear the transfiguration. So if Hayden is the one who turned the doom guy into a god to fight the demons, why would he also be the one who caused the Makyrs to lose their father and also turn to argent energy and a pact with hell?

    Also Samuel Hayden is using argent energy in the first game and seems genuinely annoyed at what doom guy is doing to disrupt that. It’s possible he created the doom guy and then lost control of him, but it doesn’t fit to me. The character who created doom guy seems to do so precisely in order to disrupt the Makyrs use of argent energy and their pact with hell.

    If Samuel Hayden is the Makyr who both took father away and turned him into Vega, and created doom guy to undo his own mistake, it will take some retconning of 2016 Samuel Hayden, which honestly is fine. But I’m hoping it’s a bit more complicated than that

    I think I’ve got Samuel Hayden figured out
    At least in regards to his origin. He could both be Samur Maykr and Satan, if we go the Lucifer route and make him a “fallen” Maykr

    It does seem clear to me that his goal is to become ruler of the Maykrs.

    The Father disappeared, leading the Maykrs to be unable to go through Transfiguration, a basically reincarnation that requires Father. Khan Maykr’s solution is to basically sell out the worlds under her influence to Hell in exchange for Argent energy to sustain the Maykrs

    Samuel says that this would not happen under “different leadership”

    Put this all together, and the plot seems to be

    1. Samur steals Father to create a Maykr crisis in leadership
    2. When Doomguy appears, the Argenta and Maykrs learn of Hell and Demons
    3. The Daeg Priests figure out how to combine Demon Essence and Wraith Energy to create Argent Energy
    4. Khan Maykr finds both her solution to the leadership crisis and a path to actual immortality in Argent Energy
    5. Khan Maykr makes a deal with Hell to supply souls in exchange for limitless Argent Energy, corrupting the Daeg Priests and the Argenta in the process. Argent Factories are constructed in Hell, withought the Night Sentinel’s knowledge
    6. Samur, still wanting leadership for himself, turns Doomguy into the Destroyer from the Maykr prophecy, and unleashed him under the guise of the Great Slayer, hoping that one day he will figure out what the Khan Maykr did and kill her for it.
    7. Samur is either banished for this or flees, but he goes to Earth (an Alternate one from Doomguy’s)
    8. The Doom Slayer, now in command of the Night Sentinels, wages a largely successful campaign against Hell
    9. The Corrupted Daeg Priests enact a plan to trap the Night Sentinels loyal to the Doom Slayer in Hell so that Argent Energy continues to flow. They convince the Betrayer to close the portal behind the Sentinel army,
    10. After the Betrayer is himself betrayed, he creates the Praetor suit for the Slayer out of guilt
    11. The Slayer somehow gets encased in his sarcophagus
    12. As Samuel Hayden, Samur begins work on figuring out a way to replicate Argent Energy without using Demon Essence. Unfortunately, his plan requires at least initially using Argent Energy from the Well. This is as close to using the original Wraith Energy as possible, but it has still been corrupted. He also gives the Father AI a new shell, naming it VEGA and perhaps altering it
    13. DOOM 2016. Samuel is at least using filters on the Argent Energy (the Slayer breaks them). Perhaps using filters was an (failed) attempt to remove the Demon Essence. Doom Slayer saves VEGA. Hayden Steals the Demonic Crucible from the Slayer and sends him off to cause more trouble for Hell, saying he only does this because it’s “necessary”
    14. Samuel somehow uses the Demonic Crucible to create “simulated” Argent Energy, presumably without the Demonic Essence (or so he thinks.
    15. DOOM Eternal. The Doom Slayer takes revenge on the Daeg Priests and defeats the forces of Hell on Earth. In the process, he fulfills the Maykr Prophecy and kills Khan Maykr, but not before installing VEGA into the Urdak system, thereby returning Father
    16. All that is left for Samur/Samuel Hayden’s plan is to somehow escape being Doom Slayers helper AI and ascend to be the new Khan Maykr. And maybe he even has clean Argent Energy. VEGA may have been altered to have Samur/Samuel ascend to Khan Maykr instead of a new one being born after Transfiguration

    Joolander on
    furlion
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Interesting note about VEGA
    the origin of the word means "the fall", which would further link with the idea of a fallen Makyr being involved in the form of Hayden.

    Joolander
  • SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit At the edge of spacetime lies a path with no end.Registered User regular
    Ill admit, I'm not a fan of how they introduced
    The Arch-Vile

    I mean, they pointed out the buff totem the first time you encounter one, but I had to find out after searching and searching for a buff totem in Taras Nabad that it was a damn arch-vile.

    Dude should walked down the center of the map so at least I knew and we could duke this shit out.

    Steam - Synthetic Violence | XBOX Live - Cannonfuse | PSN - CastleBravo | Twitch - SoggybiscuitPA
    furlionJoolanderProhass
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Ill admit, I'm not a fan of how they introduced
    The Arch-Vile

    I mean, they pointed out the buff totem the first time you encounter one, but I had to find out after searching and searching for a buff totem in Taras Nabad that it was a damn arch-vile.

    Dude should walked down the center of the map so at least I knew and we could duke this shit out.

    I died I think 3 times and spent maybe 10 minutes frantically sprinting around the area with an assload of juiced up demons behind me. Yeah I was pretty displeased.

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
  • JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    I thought the my flame belch was glitching out when fiery demon statues started appearing

    Restarted that fight twice before I found
    That Archvile COWARD hiding in the back corner on the second level with his shield up

    I thought they were gonna do a cinematic with him walking out like in the trailer. Of course I also thought a CyberDemon was going to walk out of the portal at the end of the Mars Level because of a different trailer

    Joolander on
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Yeah one thing that bummed me out is they got rid of the mini cutscene intros for enemies. I would have liked one at least for the arch vile and cyberdemon

    It’s so weird because they added more cutscenes in other areas that didn’t really need them, like you’d fire a turret and it could have just shown you doing it in first person, but it cut to another angle. And yet when it would have been really helpful, like to get a close up look at a new enemy, they didn’t do it?

    Was an odd choice, especially since in some of the preview footage they had a clip introducing the arachnatron?

    Super odd. I’m guessing it was one of those things they went back and forth on and for some reason decided not to do it

    I also didn’t like that slayer gates would have enemies that haven’t shown up in the base game yet. It felt spoilery and anticlimactic

    Prohass on
    Joolander
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    What the fuck is going on in this game.

    Is that Doom comic really canon?!

    Casually Hardcore on
  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    Spoilers, yo

    KmZUNh7.png
    Prohass
  • JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    What the fuck is going on in this game.

    Is that Doom comic really canon?!

    The one with
    HUGE GUTS and RIP AND TEAR
    Yes

    The one with
    “I killed the Demons”
    “No, you are the Demons”
    And then John was the Demons
    Not yet

    Joolander on
  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    Are the doom books still canon? Or is it just the comics?

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    For anyone who's interested, here's the first 3 levels in my recorded play-through of Doom Eternal. I only die once total, despite being on Ultra Violence so i feel pretty awesome about this!

    Enjoy~





    Might stream some more tonight? Depends on how i'm feeling.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
    Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
    Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
    Handsome Costanzafurlion
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Dixon wrote: »
    Are the doom books still canon? Or is it just the comics?

    Spoiler
    The code on the PC is FLYNNTAGGART, so I dunno if it's just a reference or if they're saying the books are also canon.
    At this point, if it's absurd and DOOM, there's a fair chance it is canon or it will be canon.

    JoolanderForar
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard Registered User regular
    Is the Demon Prison glitched? I did it once when I first unlocked it and then the lift wouldn't come back to let me try it again. A couple missions later I was able to do it again, and same issue afterwards. For some reason the lift/elevator stays at the bottom after you teleport back.

    Xbox 360/One Gamertag: SpanWolf - PS3/PS4 Gamertag: Span_Wolf
    3DS: Span_Wolf - 4854-6434-9883/WiiU:Span_Wolf
    Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Span_Wolf/ - Origin: Span_Wolf
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Is the Demon Prison glitched? I did it once when I first unlocked it and then the lift wouldn't come back to let me try it again. A couple missions later I was able to do it again, and same issue afterwards. For some reason the lift/elevator stays at the bottom after you teleport back.

    Similar issue. Hitting reset mission in the hub seemed to help, but i got hte same mission i'd done in it previously. There dosent seem to be any way to change hwat you're fighting or things =(

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
    Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    I’m still getting a really frustrating movement glitch on my Xbox one x version. It’s not my controller but basically there’s a random sticking when I move forward after moving backwards, which sometimes stops me dead in my tracks before a jump or during a fight

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    e5n52ihi6jxp.png
    7qvy9mpyu7d3.png

    his chest is basically the goats head too heh heh

    obF2Wuw.png
  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    Make sure you don't pull any muscles with that stretch you're doing 😂

    KmZUNh7.png
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    OK, so good news and bad news.

    The good news is that, even on Nightmare, you can stun a Marauder with the super shotty then quickswap to the BFG (assuming you have the suit upgrade to switch weapons faster) and fuck him up to death in one single sequence. Honestly, it's pretty easy. Just stun him with a shotty blast, quickswap, fire BFG. On a direct hit, he explodes like any other enemy, and the shot should already be lined up from the shotty blast. I just tried it and it was like a twenty second fight, half of which I spent boosting away to get the BFG and super shotty selected for the quick swap.

    The bad news is that you have to have the BFG for this to work, which means most people are going to have to face down at least one, and maybe 2-3, Marauders the normal way. You get the BFG on the level following your first Marauder encounter, but I don't remember how many Marauders you face between beating the first one and getting the BFG. It also chews up an entire BFG shot. There's a bit of distance it can cover before landing so it might snag some other enemies on the way, but it definitely cuts down on the field-clearing potential when used this way. It does, however, HUGELY cut down on the annoyance of having to trade shots with the Marauder.

    Further, the
    Crucible blade
    will not work the same way, at least with only one hit. You can stun with the shotty, but one hit is either not enough to kill immediately (at least one Nightmare) or the Marauder just shrugs it off outright.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    Darmak wrote: »
    Make sure you don't pull any muscles with that stretch you're doing 😂

    IM READING THE SIGNS.... SUMMONING THE PORTENTS.... DIVINATION...

    obF2Wuw.png
    Basil
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    The strategy I ended up coming to wrt the marauder
    Don't keep him at mid distance! Keep him a bit into long distance, so that he fairly consistently throws a projectile at you. Side dash it, then he will almost always run at you and go green when he gets close enough
    Sometimes he just runs at you instead. If that happened I typically dodged and tried again, but if you can get it down you can loop his ai pretty effectively
    Still takes too many super shotty shots to kill though

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited March 27
    Something I found out with the Marauder, and I think it's an issue, is that the added concussive blast from the frag grenade will stagger him and leave him open to be shot.

    The reason I think this is a problem is because by the time you get to the Marauder, you've had the much-superior freeze grenade for a long while and gotten used to just using it at all times; I think asking most players to juggle all their guns, the superweapons, their dash cooldowns, blood punch status, equipment cooldown, and toggling between equipment types is a couple things past reasonable. That means people are going to get the ice grenade, see that it gives them huge openings for fire belch to get back masses of health and armor at one time, and just use it forever. However, if the ice grenade works on the Marauder, I've yet to have it do anything.

    So the ice grenade isn't completely superior. Other weapons blow up stuff better, but that concussive grenade does have an added edge with a) having the concussive improvement b) eventually two grenades (or half the cooldown, depending on how you look at it). And getting two free cycles of blasting the Marauder is nothing to sneeze at. If you're fast, it only takes two cycles of quick-swapping ballista/super shotty/ballista (which has some tight timing), but three rounds of super shotty/ballista is easier to pull off.

    As of right now, I know of two easy ways to kill the Marauder: super-shotty/BFG to get him right away, and the other is either leading the fight with two grenade staggers (potentially getting the kill outright if you can land four ballista and two shotgun blasts) or staggering him normally and using grenade staggers to stunlock him.

    Which is where I think the Marauder offers up the big struggle, relatively speaking. Every other enemy type is countered by something you have right at hand: either you select the gun something is weak to, or you hit it with a blood punch. The Marauder's only player-controlled weakness seems to be that frag concussion blast, which just isn't an obvious thing.

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    The biggest issue with the marauder, for me, isn't that he take a very specific strategy to kill or that you can or can't mess with his AI. It's how different and out of the flow he is with literally every other thing in the game. I get that on some level you want to force players out of their comfort zone but this game already forces that through a lot of it's mechanics. The marauder just doesn't fit the game as an enemy. Once I worked on it a bit I had no issue with them but they still fuck the flow of the fight every time one shows up, in a way that isn't fun.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    klemmingAbsoluteZero
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited March 27
    I dunno I think he fits for that very reason. As a contrast to disrupt your best intentions. It would be annoying if he was an enemy you always face, but keeping him rare is fine. If you basically just run away from him and kill everything else in the arena until it’s you v him it works as part of the system, which involves prioritising enemies, basically for me he’s like the opposite of a buff totem, he makes the fight harder but rather than going for him first you just have to do the fight with him there, and you take him on last, or at least try to keep him at arms length, doing damage with any windows he provides, while you fight everything else

    Prohass on
    Joolander
  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited March 27
    Hmmm looks like they made a pistol, but then removed it as it didn't fit the play-style they were going for.

    Doesn't look to be unlimited ammo though, and it seems to be burst fire.

    I guess you have to enable with console and some other magics.

    Dixon on
    JoolanderBasilAbsoluteZeroThegreatcowLinespider5Crippl3cB557Mancingtom
  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    I feel like they noticed that they already had a boltgun in the heavy cannon and didn't want to add a bolt pistol, too.

    9KmX8eN.jpg
    Moridin889
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited March 27
    Prohass wrote: »
    I dunno I think he fits for that very reason. As a contrast to disrupt your best intentions. It would be annoying if he was an enemy you always face, but keeping him rare is fine. If you basically just run away from him and kill everything else in the arena until it’s you v him it works as part of the system, which involves prioritising enemies, basically for me he’s like the opposite of a buff totem, he makes the fight harder but rather than going for him first you just have to do the fight with him there, and you take him on last, or at least try to keep him at arms length, doing damage with any windows he provides, while you fight everything else

    Nothing you said here is false...but that still doesn't change the fact that in my opinion, the marauder isn't fun. All I heard in every pre-game interview from Marty and Hugo about this game is fun, find the fun zone, do what's fun. By that rubric the marauder is not a good enemy in Doom Eternal in my opinion. I know how to kill them, I know how to prioritize them...and every time they show up it lowers the fun of the battle for me.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    furlionThe Zombie PenguinDavid Walgas
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    I dunno I think he fits for that very reason. As a contrast to disrupt your best intentions. It would be annoying if he was an enemy you always face, but keeping him rare is fine. If you basically just run away from him and kill everything else in the arena until it’s you v him it works as part of the system, which involves prioritising enemies, basically for me he’s like the opposite of a buff totem, he makes the fight harder but rather than going for him first you just have to do the fight with him there, and you take him on last, or at least try to keep him at arms length, doing damage with any windows he provides, while you fight everything else

    Nothing you said here is false...but that still doesn't change the fact that the marauder isn't fun. All I heard in every pre-game interview from Marty and Hugo about this game is fun, find the fun zone, do what's fun. By that rubric the marauder is not a good enemy in Doom Eternal in my opinion. I know how to kill them, I know how to prioritize them...and every time they show up it lowers the fun of the battle for me.

    I don't think the ai works well enough honestly. I should be able to stand at a specific distance and know that the bastard will try and attack me. Instead he is all over the place, sometimes axe throw at point blank, shotgun from the next block over, and melee attacking from several meters away. Sometimes I hit him with the super shotgun with no stagger and I can't tell if that means no damage was done or not. In a game with nearly flawless enemy design any shortcomings stand out and id dropped the ball on this one for me.

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
  • BlueshiftBlueshift Registered User regular
    Has anyone attempted the "can't beat perfection" milestone? I get that you can't get sentinel crystals (avoid them) but the challenges give you suit points. Does just acquiring the point itself count against the milestone or do you have to actually spend it on a perk? It would be nice if the milestone got like an X through it to let you know you fucked up. I'm seeing conflicting (if any) information on this, just wondering if anyone out there tried it.

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    furlion wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    I dunno I think he fits for that very reason. As a contrast to disrupt your best intentions. It would be annoying if he was an enemy you always face, but keeping him rare is fine. If you basically just run away from him and kill everything else in the arena until it’s you v him it works as part of the system, which involves prioritising enemies, basically for me he’s like the opposite of a buff totem, he makes the fight harder but rather than going for him first you just have to do the fight with him there, and you take him on last, or at least try to keep him at arms length, doing damage with any windows he provides, while you fight everything else

    Nothing you said here is false...but that still doesn't change the fact that the marauder isn't fun. All I heard in every pre-game interview from Marty and Hugo about this game is fun, find the fun zone, do what's fun. By that rubric the marauder is not a good enemy in Doom Eternal in my opinion. I know how to kill them, I know how to prioritize them...and every time they show up it lowers the fun of the battle for me.

    I don't think the ai works well enough honestly. I should be able to stand at a specific distance and know that the bastard will try and attack me. Instead he is all over the place, sometimes axe throw at point blank, shotgun from the next block over, and melee attacking from several meters away. Sometimes I hit him with the super shotgun with no stagger and I can't tell if that means no damage was done or not. In a game with nearly flawless enemy design any shortcomings stand out and id dropped the ball on this one for me.

    Yeah, his AI is waaaay too tightly tuned on distance, and you never know what his AI is currently committed to so just passing through a certain range can cause it to kick off the wrong attack for your current distance. If you're too close and dash away, the expected shotgun blast won't happen and the likely wave shot won't either and instead you get his green flash attack to the face. If you're far and dash in, you end up getting a wave in the face instead of the shotgun. If you want the green flash attack, you have to land at the right distance and fucking stay there while the Marauder thinks it over, then finally goes for the attack.

    Combined with the absolute bullshit that is his block-very-nearly-everything-instantly shield (which is a straight-up bad piece of design), I consider knocking him out with an absolute minimum of effort as the best way to keep him from messing with the part of the game that's actually fun.

    Which is why I put up the stuff about taking the Marauder out in the absolute minimum amount of time. It puts him back in line with other enemies of the same size and evasion ability, instead of letting him hang around as something that's outright unkillable when it isn't dumping out unlimited high damage. He moves fast but still slower than you, which means it's well worth setting things up to draw him out of the pack and drop him in a few seconds over fucking around with the whole "wait for his unreliable AI" bullshit over multiple cycles.

    GnomeTankDavid Walgas
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    I think the thing they got right about the marauder as a concept is that he forces you to make an immediate decision. Deal with him right now, as quickly and efficiently as possible. Or do your best to ignore him for the whole fight until you can 1v1 no re him.

    It's the overall execution of that concept that makes him the no fun zone.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    furlionJoolander
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    furlion wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    I dunno I think he fits for that very reason. As a contrast to disrupt your best intentions. It would be annoying if he was an enemy you always face, but keeping him rare is fine. If you basically just run away from him and kill everything else in the arena until it’s you v him it works as part of the system, which involves prioritising enemies, basically for me he’s like the opposite of a buff totem, he makes the fight harder but rather than going for him first you just have to do the fight with him there, and you take him on last, or at least try to keep him at arms length, doing damage with any windows he provides, while you fight everything else

    Nothing you said here is false...but that still doesn't change the fact that the marauder isn't fun. All I heard in every pre-game interview from Marty and Hugo about this game is fun, find the fun zone, do what's fun. By that rubric the marauder is not a good enemy in Doom Eternal in my opinion. I know how to kill them, I know how to prioritize them...and every time they show up it lowers the fun of the battle for me.

    I don't think the ai works well enough honestly. I should be able to stand at a specific distance and know that the bastard will try and attack me. Instead he is all over the place, sometimes axe throw at point blank, shotgun from the next block over, and melee attacking from several meters away. Sometimes I hit him with the super shotgun with no stagger and I can't tell if that means no damage was done or not. In a game with nearly flawless enemy design any shortcomings stand out and id dropped the ball on this one for me.

    Yeah, his AI is waaaay too tightly tuned on distance, and you never know what his AI is currently committed to so just passing through a certain range can cause it to kick off the wrong attack for your current distance. If you're too close and dash away, the expected shotgun blast won't happen and the likely wave shot won't either and instead you get his green flash attack to the face. If you're far and dash in, you end up getting a wave in the face instead of the shotgun. If you want the green flash attack, you have to land at the right distance and fucking stay there while the Marauder thinks it over, then finally goes for the attack.

    Combined with the absolute bullshit that is his block-very-nearly-everything-instantly shield (which is a straight-up bad piece of design), I consider knocking him out with an absolute minimum of effort as the best way to keep him from messing with the part of the game that's actually fun.

    Which is why I put up the stuff about taking the Marauder out in the absolute minimum amount of time. It puts him back in line with other enemies of the same size and evasion ability, instead of letting him hang around as something that's outright unkillable when it isn't dumping out unlimited high damage. He moves fast but still slower than you, which means it's well worth setting things up to draw him out of the pack and drop him in a few seconds over fucking around with the whole "wait for his unreliable AI" bullshit over multiple cycles.

    When I tried the crucible on a marauder and it didn't cut through his shield in a brilliant FUCK YOU animation it broke tiny, tiny heart.

    David Walgas
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    They reeeeallly should not have given him an energy shield and then made you unable to break it like the other energy shields. It definitely should be a physical shield if only to differentiate it and make it both obvious it's a separate thing and not constantly aggravating that it breaks a game rule on energy shields.

    As for the issue of determining if you've dealt damage to the Marauder, my go-to is the wonderful damage-to-gibs system. If you've dealt damage to the Marauder with the super shotty, meaty chunks fly off 100% of the time. If he has blocked it, no chunks. And if you take a look and see that he's mauled pretty badly, you can know you've been reliably dealing damage.

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