Options

No Grenades in Team Fortress 2...

2456728

Posts

  • Options
    ecchiecchi Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Neo Rasa wrote: »
    Yes, grenades were a fairly integral aspect of the gameplay and strategy. Their removal makes no sense whatsoever, other than them trying to dumb down the game. That's not to say that they're trying to dumb it down for consoles, but they're definitely trying to dumb it down.

    That's a damn shame.

    Granted some of these abilities you described could be replaced with various firearms, but we'll see. Hopefully there'll be more to the classes than just differences in hit points, endurance and weapon damage.
    They actually removed the grenades in an attempt to differentiate the classes, not make them the same. See, every class but the scout had, in addition to their special grenades, four regular frag grenades. Since most damage in the game was dealt through grenades, it meant that even a medic (originally intended as a support class) was actually really, really good at killing things. It also meant that soldier's rockets and demoman's pipe bombs weren't so special any more. In the same way, both medics and scouts got concussion grenades which are mainly used for really fast transportation. Thanks to the concs, medics were almost as fast as scouts in a lot of situations.

    So by removing the grenades, changing weapon loadouts, and giving supplemental abilities like scout's double-jump, the classes are actually less similar overall.

    ...but the grenade play really was integral to the whole experience, and without them, it will be an entirely different game. I liked that everyone got frags :?

    ecchi on
  • Options
    Kerbob97Kerbob97 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Suriko: there are some games out there that work pretty well as console. Wait til June.

    Kerbob97 on
  • Options
    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I assume you also have a problem with rocket jumping? Conc jumping was fine. MIRV spam was pretty heavy and they knew that too, so they toned it down in TFC.

    Trivalizing bases? That's just grasping at straws. Have you ever seen a scout take out a level 3 sentry gun? It's not that hard to do. It's pretty fun.

    tyrannus on
  • Options
    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    ecchi wrote: »
    Neo Rasa wrote: »
    Yes, grenades were a fairly integral aspect of the gameplay and strategy. Their removal makes no sense whatsoever, other than them trying to dumb down the game. That's not to say that they're trying to dumb it down for consoles, but they're definitely trying to dumb it down.

    That's a damn shame.

    Granted some of these abilities you described could be replaced with various firearms, but we'll see. Hopefully there'll be more to the classes than just differences in hit points, endurance and weapon damage.
    They actually removed the grenades in an attempt to differentiate the classes, not make them the same. See, every class but the scout had, in addition to their special grenades, four regular frag grenades. Since most damage in the game was dealt through grenades, it meant that even a medic (originally intended as a support class) was actually really, really good at killing things. It also meant that soldier's rockets and demoman's pipe bombs weren't so special any more. In the same way, both medics and scouts got concussion grenades which are mainly used for really fast transportation. Thanks to the concs, medics were almost as fast as scouts in a lot of situations.

    So by removing the grenades, changing weapon loadouts, and giving supplemental abilities like scout's double-jump, the classes are actually less similar overall.

    ...but the grenade play really was integral to the whole experience, and without them, it will be an entirely different game. I liked that everyone got frags :?

    So, wait, I didn't listen to the podcast because I don't have working speakers currently, but what grenades are they removing? Are they removing frag grenades (I'm alright with this), or are they removing all grenades?

    Wonder_Hippie on
  • Options
    SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Kerbob97 wrote: »
    Suriko: there are some games out there that work pretty well as console. Wait til June.

    FPS games or games in general? If the latter, I'm well aware of that. SSB and Soul Calibur 3 come to mind, not to mention any Wii game that makes decent use of the controls.

    Suriko on
  • Options
    ecchiecchi Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    They are removing all grenades. This isn't new information -- read the three-part TF2 preview by Edge. Walker explains the rationale there.

    ecchi on
  • Options
    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    captaink wrote: »
    I never liked all the specialized skills you had to develop with the gameplay mechanics to be competitive in every multiplayer game ever made. It'll be nice to homogenize the experience and create a system in which everybody can do the things it took some a bit of time to learn to do.

    Just like skiing in Tribes, right?

    Wonder_Hippie on
  • Options
    Neo RasaNeo Rasa Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    suriko/Kerbob: No one cares, talk about Team Fortress 2.
    ecchi wrote: »
    ...but the grenade play really was integral to the whole experience, and without them, it will be an entirely different game. I liked that everyone got frags :?

    This is pretty interesting actually. In the Elder Scrolls games you can jump repeatedly to quickly increase your acrobatics and/or agility. Some people complained about this and Bethesda's reponse was that it's not their fault you're playing the game wrong.

    With Team Fortress it looks like everyone started playing the game "wrong" to the point where it's become the standard. And now there's outcry over them trying to fix this?

    Good? Bad?

    Neo Rasa on
    "You know how Batman hangs people over the edge of buildings and gets them to spill information. That's Neo Rasa's way of it, but instead of information, he just likes to see people suffer." ~Senor Fish
  • Options
    agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    All grenades are gone except for some grenade like weapons(pipebomb) and apparently the spies have an EMP grenade thats only used for disabling turrets. They start talking about this stuff a little over halfway into the podcast.

    agoaj on
    ujav5b9gwj1s.png
  • Options
    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    ecchi wrote: »
    They are removing all grenades. This isn't new information -- read the three-part TF2 preview by Edge. Walker explains the rationale there.

    I missed it. Been doing experimental research and such. Linky winky?

    Wonder_Hippie on
  • Options
    Kerbob97Kerbob97 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Suriko - damnit I am just going to go start a thread for Shadowrun.

    Kerbob97 on
  • Options
    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2007
    Suriko wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote:
    Fuck, how many keys do PC FPSers use anyway? Like, 3-4, max?


    Also, the N64 had less buttons than the current generation, yet Perfect Dark managed to have grenades. Hell, no FPS has even used that cool weapon selection system they had when you held down A.
    WSAD for basic movement. Left and right mouse buttons for fire/alternate fire. Scroll wheel and keyboard number buttons for weapon selection (we'll say... 5). E and W for lean, if implemented. Tab for scoreboard. z for prone and ctrl for crouch. Sometimes shift for holding breath or extending supports with sniper rifles. Tilde for console. Printscreen for screen capture. This is just taking most basic FPSs into account, and not things like tactical shooters and others. So that's 19 keys right there.

    I've tried using a console for FPSs and it just felt really wrong, no matter how much i tried to get used to it. On the other hand, I can't imagine playing Super Smash Brothers with some buds on a LAN instead of in front of a big TV talking, shouting, moving and generally making fools of ourselves.

    console FPS on Xbox:

    Joystick left to move (Halo + others)
    Joystick right to aim (Halo + others)
    Y to change weapons (Halo + others)
    A to jump
    B to perform a melee attack
    dpad to lean (rainbowsix)
    Back for scoreboard (halo)
    Left Stick Click to crouch (Halo) click again to go prone (Far Cry)
    Right Stick to switch to secondary or zoom (TimeSplitters, Halo)
    Hold X to open doors, get into a vehicle, pick up weapons (Halo + others)
    White Button to teamspeak (Halo + others)
    Black Button to switch grenades (Halo + TS3)
    Right Trigger to fire weapon (Halo + others)
    Left Trigger to throw a grenade (Halo + TS3) or hold breathe (Splinter Cell)

    screencaps and console are superflous and do not impact the gameplay. I can't even think of the last time I brought up a console in a PC FPS except to turn downloads off in Counterstrike, and that could have easily been an option in the regular menu.


    FPS works just fine on a controller, the developer has to actually give a fuck and use context-sensitive commands to do multiple jobs that really don't need seperate buttons.

    FyreWulff on
  • Options
    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Also I love how that video that was linked the guy was playing with FOV 120 :|.

    tyrannus on
  • Options
    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I think ecchi pretty much nails it. It's hard to hop on a TFC server anymore and just tool around and have fun while winning some games. You basically have to be this perfectly-timed grenade savant to get anywhere, and it's a barrier to entry that, were it held over and redone in TF2, would have basically alienated many of the new players Valve is trying to reach out to with TF2.

    I for one look forward to being able to play a game where the only sound you hear isn't the sound of a billion frag grenades going off at any given time at any given point on a map.

    korodullin on
    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • Options
    WoodroezWoodroez Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I played in pubs for TFC back when CS really got hot, and I can't say I recall the vast majority of players using grenades like they were an 'intregal' part of gameplay, aside from spamming frags and the occasional player that did know how to conc jump. I can see why one wouldn't like that they took it out, but I definitely think they had real good reasons to do it though, such as making the Soldier class and the rocket jump manuever really unique.

    Woodroez on
    858213-butcher-2.jpg
  • Options
    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Neo Rasa wrote: »
    suriko/Kerbob: No one cares, talk about Team Fortress 2.
    ecchi wrote: »
    ...but the grenade play really was integral to the whole experience, and without them, it will be an entirely different game. I liked that everyone got frags :?

    This is pretty interesting actually. In the Elder Scrolls games you can jump repeatedly to quickly increase your acrobatics and/or agility. Some people complained about this and Bethesda's reponse was that it's not their fault you're playing the game wrong.

    With Team Fortress it looks like everyone started playing the game "wrong" to the point where it's become the standard. And now there's outcry over them trying to fix this?

    Good? Bad?

    The difference is that the ES example could almost be considered a uncontrolled confound. Jumping really quickly up a flight of stairs wasn't intended. However, many maps were made around the concept of rocket jumps and nade jumps from the get-go. Using those methods to get in to a relatively unguarded entrance or popping up into the sniper roost and laying a few pipes behind them, taking a few steps back, and gibbing the shit out of them was entirely intended.

    Wonder_Hippie on
  • Options
    ParisInFlamesParisInFlames Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    ecchi wrote: »
    Neo Rasa wrote: »
    Yes, grenades were a fairly integral aspect of the gameplay and strategy. Their removal makes no sense whatsoever, other than them trying to dumb down the game. That's not to say that they're trying to dumb it down for consoles, but they're definitely trying to dumb it down.

    That's a damn shame.

    Granted some of these abilities you described could be replaced with various firearms, but we'll see. Hopefully there'll be more to the classes than just differences in hit points, endurance and weapon damage.
    They actually removed the grenades in an attempt to differentiate the classes, not make them the same. See, every class but the scout had, in addition to their special grenades, four regular frag grenades. Since most damage in the game was dealt through grenades, it meant that even a medic (originally intended as a support class) was actually really, really good at killing things. It also meant that soldier's rockets and demoman's pipe bombs weren't so special any more. In the same way, both medics and scouts got concussion grenades which are mainly used for really fast transportation. Thanks to the concs, medics were almost as fast as scouts in a lot of situations.
    That's definitely my rationalization behind this decision(though the console thing keeps resurfacing). They're definately retooling this game entirely around this decission. I mean, try imagining TFC right now with no grenade packs and no one spawning with any either. It would be broken.

    I have faith that the game will be balanced around this change. But will it feel like TF? Will it be as fun? As deep? That's the question on my mind.

    ParisInFlames on
    UnderwaterUmbrellaGirlwider.jpg
    Steam id: skoot LoL id: skoot
  • Options
    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    korodullin wrote: »
    I for one look forward to being able to play a game where the only sound you hear isn't the sound of a billion frag grenades going off at any given time at any given point on a map.

    Replace it with the heavy drone of HW guys. If you're complaining about people not knowing how to use grenades properly and then coming into TF2, you should know what you're going to be facing. HW guy madness.

    tyrannus on
  • Options
    CrashmoCrashmo Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I'm totally fine with no grenades. If some other games didn't have grenades, you would die randomly about 30% less, and your kdr would be much more reliant on your actual shooting skills.

    And yes, knowing where to grenade/watch for grenades is a skill, just not one I care to bother with most of time. A good use of team grenades in DoD will shutdown a map SO fast.

    Crashmo on
    polar-bearsig.jpg
  • Options
    Neo RasaNeo Rasa Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    The difference is that the ES example could almost be considered a uncontrolled confound. Jumping really quickly up a flight of stairs wasn't intended. However, many maps were made around the concept of rocket jumps and nade jumps from the get-go. Using those methods to get in to a relatively unguarded entrance or popping up into the sniper roost and laying a few pipes behind them, taking a few steps back, and gibbing the shit out of them was entirely intended.

    And there's been no Bomberman total conversion?

    Neo Rasa on
    "You know how Batman hangs people over the edge of buildings and gets them to spill information. That's Neo Rasa's way of it, but instead of information, he just likes to see people suffer." ~Senor Fish
  • Options
    ecchiecchi Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    ecchi wrote: »
    They are removing all grenades. This isn't new information -- read the three-part TF2 preview by Edge. Walker explains the rationale there.

    I missed it. Been doing experimental research and such. Linky winky?
    Oops, I meant Game Informer:
    http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200703/N07.0326.1849.05812.htm
    http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200703/N07.0327.1745.51023.htm
    http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200703/N07.0328.1722.34101.htm


    FPS works just fine on a controller, the developer has to actually give a fuck and use context-sensitive commands to do multiple jobs that really don't need seperate buttons.
    I really do agree with you, even though I can't stand playing console FPSes, but if TF2 were simply a pretty version of TFC, it wouldn't have worked on a console controller. It isn't really even playable on a PC without at least a four-button mouse.

    ecchi on
  • Options
    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Neo Rasa wrote: »
    The difference is that the ES example could almost be considered a uncontrolled confound. Jumping really quickly up a flight of stairs wasn't intended. However, many maps were made around the concept of rocket jumps and nade jumps from the get-go. Using those methods to get in to a relatively unguarded entrance or popping up into the sniper roost and laying a few pipes behind them, taking a few steps back, and gibbing the shit out of them was entirely intended.

    And there's been no Bomberman total conversion?

    :?:

    Wonder_Hippie on
  • Options
    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    ecchi wrote:
    I really do agree with you, even though I can't stand playing console FPSes, but if TF2 were simply a pretty version of TFC, it wouldn't have worked on a console controller. It isn't really even playable on a PC without at least a four-button mouse.

    Thanks for the links.

    I agree with that, but the terrible thing is that it almost makes me want to see completely seperate development houses porting it from the PC. Kinda like Battlefield. The PC versions are relatively different from the console versions. The console versions are made (however poorly) to work on consoles, and the PC versions are made to work on PCs. Not that I advocate some kind of segregation or anything, but the classic TF formula works so well, that seeing it gimped on the PC because it's going to see a console release makes me pine for the days of flashbangs in MegaTF that actually blinded you in real life.

    Wonder_Hippie on
  • Options
    FallFall Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    One of the best thing about Team Fortress was how many crazy things you could do with grenades.

    Need to launch yourself across the level? Conc jump.

    Want to launch yourself 200 feet into the air? Double-rocket jump then grenade jump.

    Want to take out a turret, two heavy weapons guys, and a demoman? Throw an EMP.

    Want to keep an area clear? Throw a nail grenade.

    Want to destroy... everything? Throw a cluster bomb.

    I'm fine with some changes, but this seems to make the game a little too simplistic. Now most classes will have very little variety in how they fight, which is a major blow to long-term appeal.

    I won't play the "it's dumbed down for console gamers" card, but it's certainly "dumbed down".

    Team Fortress was never about precise aiming, it was about crazy weapon combos and movement. Taking out grenades makes it more focussed on gun-based combat, which if aim isn't a factor (i.e. no headshots) is not going to be anywhere near as interesting.

    Fall on
  • Options
    Kerbob97Kerbob97 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I think they will be able to better balance the game without the grenades. Base it more off the character strengths/weakness thing. B/c now that I think about it, the rampant grenading is actually why I finally gave up on TF.

    Kerbob97 on
  • Options
    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Comboing a rocket + a grenade and having both hit and launch them in the air, and like shooting skeet, you nail them with your shotgun twice on dm_mulch. That was awesome.

    tyrannus on
  • Options
    FallFall Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yeah, without grenades heads up fighting (like on dm_mulch) is going to be quite dull compared to TFC.

    I'm not entirely sure how the Medic is going to be a fun class anymore. A shotgun, some wimpy alt gun, and a med heal ray? Uh... fun?

    I'm not a person who complains when things are changed between versions, but I'm not too optimistic about how TF2 will play compared to TFC.

    Fall on
  • Options
    JJJJ DailyStormer Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Fall wrote: »
    One of the best thing about Team Fortress was how many crazy things you could do with grenades.

    Need to launch yourself across the level? Conc jump.

    Want to launch yourself 200 feet into the air? Double-rocket jump then grenade jump.

    Want to take out a turret, two heavy weapons guys, and a demoman? Throw an EMP.

    Want to keep an area clear? Throw a nail grenade.

    Want to destroy... everything? Throw a cluster bomb.

    I'm fine with some changes, but this seems to make the game a little too simplistic. Now most classes will have very little variety in how they fight, which is a major blow to long-term appeal.

    I won't play the "it's dumbed down for console gamers" card, but it's certainly "dumbed down".

    Team Fortress was never about precise aiming, it was about crazy weapon combos and movement. Taking out grenades makes it more focussed on gun-based combat, which if aim isn't a factor (i.e. no headshots) is not going to be anywhere near as interesting.

    Seemed to work fine for CS.

    JJ on
  • Options
    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    CS? A game where basically you have just different skins and can buy all weapons independant of what skin you choose? Are you seriously comparing that to a class based game? Are you REALLY?

    tyrannus on
  • Options
    JJJJ DailyStormer Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Rentilius wrote: »
    CS? A game where basically you have just different skins and can buy all weapons independant of what skin you choose? Are you seriously comparing that to a class based game? Are you REALLY?

    What I'm saying is people don't seem to mind doing the same thing over and over again the same way for 7 years.

    JJ on
  • Options
    FallFall Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Counter-Strike has long-term appeal because the limited number of choices allow for massively different results depending on player skill. I can take on five decent players using only a pistol. I can't do the same in Team Fortress.

    Team Fortress was never about precision. It was more about mastering movement skills and coming up with crazy combos. Take out the grenades and you lose a lot of the crazy movement tricks and combos.

    Imagine how much fun CS would be if all you had was a shotgun, the TMP, and the knife. Bo-ring.

    Fall on
  • Options
    ParisInFlamesParisInFlames Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yeah when I was deep down the rabbit hole in my TFC obsession I could do some pretty insane jumps while flinging off perfect timed grenades, shotgun blasts or just about anything with stupid precicion. It was fun, but there's no way I'll have the time or patience to get that good again. Maybe this is for the best. The classes themselves can be more deep then they were before to help counter the loss of flying through the air.

    But yeah, the things that pop into my mind when playing this news through my head some more is. God damn, snipers are going to have to change some how. A fully charged instantaneous shot exactly where your cursor is aimed was already really powerful. I remember some fools were good enough to hit me flying from out of view at crazy speeds and them taking me out with head shots. So now that the game sounds as if for the most part the pace is slowing, that just makes the sniper that much more powerful.

    ParisInFlames on
    UnderwaterUmbrellaGirlwider.jpg
    Steam id: skoot LoL id: skoot
  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Fall wrote: »
    One of the best thing about Team Fortress was how many crazy things you could do with grenades.

    Need to launch yourself across the level? Conc jump.

    Want to launch yourself 200 feet into the air? Double-rocket jump then grenade jump.

    Want to take out a turret, two heavy weapons guys, and a demoman? Throw an EMP.

    Want to keep an area clear? Throw a nail grenade.

    Want to destroy... everything? Throw a cluster bomb.

    I'm fine with some changes, but this seems to make the game a little too simplistic. Now most classes will have very little variety in how they fight, which is a major blow to long-term appeal.

    You know, I really hate shit like this. Some guys reads an article, goes "OMG, I don't like <wang>" and posts about it on some forum. Then it become "news" and soon every forum on the net has a thread about "They're doing (or not doing) <wang>," and then people read said thread, and then have absolutly no context towards where the tiny piece of info originally came from, nor what was also said in the article.

    Yes, they're cutting out grenades. But they're also refining the classes so they do play different (for example, the Scout has the ability to double-jump). It's not going to be "TFC, just without grenades." Removing grenades it just one piece in large-scale redesign and rethinking of the game.

    Also, the demo-man still has grenades, IIRC.

    Undead Scottsman on
  • Options
    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yeah when I was deep down the rabbit hole in my TFC obsession I could do some pretty insane jumps while flinging off perfect timed grenades, shotgun blasts or just about anything with stupid precicion. It was fun, but there's no way I'll have the time or patience to get that good again. Maybe this is for the best. The classes themselves can be more deep then they were before to help counter the loss of flying through the air.

    But yeah, the things that pop into my mind when playing this news through my head some more is. God damn, snipers are going to have to change some how. A fully charged instantaneous shot exactly where your cursor is aimed was already really powerful. I remember some fools were good enough to hit me flying from out of view at crazy speeds and them taking me out with head shots. So now that the game sounds as if for the most part the pace is slowing, that just makes the sniper that much more powerful.


    I miss when the red dot wouldn't follow your cursor, so shots like that were actually "wow."

    tyrannus on
  • Options
    Cynic JesterCynic Jester Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    This change makes me sad. I can't imagine 2fort without grenades. Snipers will have a fucking field day. Soldiers will end up being the only class that can get to the overlook without getting assraped by sentries and HWGs on their way through the base. Of course they'll probably change the map to make it play better and stuff, but you know, it's fucking 2fort. But wait, they're going for offense/defense maps. Instead of CTF. Joy.

    I'll end up buying it, hell, I'll probably end up loving it. But will it be the TFC2 I've been waiting for? I doubt it.

    Cynic Jester on
  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    This change makes me sad. I can't imagine 2fort without grenades. Snipers will have a fucking field day. Soldiers will end up being the only class that can get to the overlook without getting assraped by sentries and HWGs on their way through the base. Of course they'll probably change the map to make it play better and stuff, but you know, it's fucking 2fort.

    Or, you know, they'll change more about the classes than just taking away grenades. :P

    Undead Scottsman on
  • Options
    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    This change makes me sad. I can't imagine 2fort without grenades. Snipers will have a fucking field day. Soldiers will end up being the only class that can get to the overlook without getting assraped by sentries and HWGs on their way through the base. Of course they'll probably change the map to make it play better and stuff, but you know, it's fucking 2fort.

    Or, you know, they'll change more about the classes than just taking away grenades. :P

    The map in the trailer was 2fort, I think. The first trailer, that showed off the classes.

    tyrannus on
  • Options
    Cynic JesterCynic Jester Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Sure, they can change around the classes. But what will they replace them with? Guns that have indirect fire? Grenadelaunchers maybe? Fuck if I know. Hell, at this point, it's all speculation. I'm just sad I won't have grenades anymore.

    And like I said, I'll probably end up loving the end result, but it won't be TFC2 for me.

    Cynic Jester on
  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Rentilius wrote: »
    This change makes me sad. I can't imagine 2fort without grenades. Snipers will have a fucking field day. Soldiers will end up being the only class that can get to the overlook without getting assraped by sentries and HWGs on their way through the base. Of course they'll probably change the map to make it play better and stuff, but you know, it's fucking 2fort.

    Or, you know, they'll change more about the classes than just taking away grenades. :P

    The map in the trailer was 2fort, I think. The first trailer, that showed off the classes.

    Yeah, notice how the Spy has a cloak now?

    I reiterate: they're changing more about the classes than just whether or not they have grenades.

    Undead Scottsman on
  • Options
    FallFall Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Fall wrote: »
    One of the best thing about Team Fortress was how many crazy things you could do with grenades.

    Need to launch yourself across the level? Conc jump.

    Want to launch yourself 200 feet into the air? Double-rocket jump then grenade jump.

    Want to take out a turret, two heavy weapons guys, and a demoman? Throw an EMP.

    Want to keep an area clear? Throw a nail grenade.

    Want to destroy... everything? Throw a cluster bomb.

    I'm fine with some changes, but this seems to make the game a little too simplistic. Now most classes will have very little variety in how they fight, which is a major blow to long-term appeal.

    You know, I really hate shit like this. Some guys reads an article, goes "OMG, I don't like <wang>" and posts about it on some forum. Then it become "news" and soon every forum on the net has a thread about "They're doing (or not doing) <wang>" with absolutly no context towards where the tiny piece of info originally came from, nor what was also said in the article.

    Yes, they're cutting out grenades. But they're also refining the classes so they do play different (for example, the Scout has the ability to double-jump). It's not going to be "TFC, just without grenades." Removing grenades it just one piece in large-scale redesign and rethinking of the game.

    Also, the demo-man still has grenades, IIRC.

    Cutting grenades will drastically limit the amount of freedom the player has in the game, which is what made TFC unique.

    Who wants to shoot a shotgun and heal friendlies? I'll go do that in Battlefield or one of a million other games.

    I understand their reasoning for removing the grenades, and I don't agree with it. They want a slower more tactical game, and guess what... that's not Team Fortress.

    Fall on
Sign In or Register to comment.