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Etrian Odyssey: Nexus - When your cat is an absolute unit.

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Posts

  • FremFrem Registered User regular
    Why is the game so hard? Is it because Atlus assumed that only hardcore fans would be playing it? Is it because with so many classes available, there are some extremely powerful parties?

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Frem wrote: »
    Why is the game so hard? Is it because Atlus assumed that only hardcore fans would be playing it? Is it because with so many classes available, there are some extremely powerful parties?
    I don't know what it's like on lower difficulties, but enemy HP counts seem really high and damage output from leveling / gearing isn't exactly reaching break points like "oh I kill this enemy in two hits instead of three or four." Likewise, the damage soak ability of your party against enemies doesn't grow with any sort of noticable gains (minus a tremendous leap like level 1 compared to level 15).

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited February 9
    God fucking damn this, I'm not happy with how this difficulty panned out. Still haven't beaten the boss I'm on. I stretch out to being out of TP, including my healer (somehow), and only get as far as 1/3 HP remaining. And this is like 30+ turns.

    Edit - I think the Landshark elemental chase is exceptionally weaker this game. They seem to have changed how weaknesses to elements (and physical types) have changed. If something is neutral to pierce + vulnerable to fire, Blazing Link will to only a little bit more damage than usual. I can't quite put a finger on how much extra it is but it certainly isn't like 1.5 the damage a normal attack would do. It seems like to get to that level of multiplier something would have to be doubly weak,magical and physical elements at the same time. And then there's the follow-up damage, which really requires your team to push on to be substantial. I've gotten returns of 9 damage on the follow-ups somehow. Compare this to a Zodiac's damage, which is only measuring one weakness.

    So for more specific example, if a Zodiac hits a shock neutral enemy with shock damage, it'll be like 29 damage. If that same enemy is fire weak and the Zodiac hits with fire, you're looking at high-50 damage if not 60-range. A Landshark doing the same will get 29 damage on the shock link, and then 40-something on the fire link. It's freaking weird.

    Or maybe this shit is all in my head. I dunno, something about this game's math for combat is wildly different than the previous games and it seems a bit out of spirit with the progression afforded before.

    Edit - 1st stratum down, it took DLC leveling my way to 20. I'm not happy.

    Henroid on
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited February 9
    Adamant Guild reports in, date Emperor 11.

    End of 1st Labyrinth (Eastern Shrine)
    First of all, I think it was pretty surprising to have a boss battle at the end of the tutorial labyrinth, especially with how little resources a party will have at that point. My Zodiac was drained of all of their resources less than a third of the way through the boss's HP pool (in part due to me forgetting to activate their Force Boost until after all their TP was spent - and in retrospect I should have activated it just to use their Force Break for a little bit more damage), and everyone was pretty much tapped out of TP on the last third of the boss's health bar. I definitely could have played the combat better, but a victory is a victory, even EXP bars be damned.

    2nd Labyrinth:
    (Lush Woodlands)

    Start of B3F
    I was definitely surprised by the Berserker King ambush, but fortunately its half-health state made it not terrible to take down. That said, I still lost a few party members by forgetting to heal right after the fight and had to take the Ariadne Thread way home.
    End of B3F
    The first time I went into Berserker King 2, I had a somewhat rough time of it. I had to go into recovery mode and use up all three Nectars I had in my pack. So of course, once Cernunnos crashes in, I have no revival resources available for my inevitable demise in the first encounter. So of course, I restart and purchase two more Nectars and then get through the Berserker King re-fight without any item usage.

    It took me two more times to take down Cernunnos (Lv 13; Hero, War Magus, Pugilist | Gunner, Zodiac), and the last attempt I just had pretty much a perfect string of binds, ailments, and debuffs. I did make two major mistakes, though. First, double-targeting a Healing Roller on one of their return cycles, causing the defense debuff on Cernunnos to be cancelled out towards the end of the battle. Second, not actually remembering that Cernunnos would Cross Counter every five turns, despite learning that over the course of my first two losses. On Turn 5, I was fortunate to have had arm binds up, but I had a couple dodgy revival turns following Turn 10, and on the penultimate Turn 15, I took the full brunt of the counterattack and lost three party members. So now I have two party members who are a full level ahead of the other three. But the boss is down at least, despite my ineptitude!

    Now that I've started getting levels in and have been able to keep up with new equipment, the difficulty's starting to become more manageable, but we'll see how things ratchet up in the next labyrinth. I'll need to figure out where I left my SD card adapter so I can upload a picture of my guild card to share. Since there are other-guild events in EON as there were in EOV, it'd by nice to get a variety of faces in, don't you think?

    MrBlarney on
    chirisigtext.png
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited February 9
    Frem wrote: »
    Why is the game so hard? Is it because Atlus assumed that only hardcore fans would be playing it? Is it because with so many classes available, there are some extremely powerful parties?

    No, there are always extremely powerful parties. There isn't a boss in the series that can't be killed in like three turns.
    You can just turn down enemy stats whenever you want, though.

    PLA on
  • LucedesLucedes *heaps mad squawk* Registered User regular
    edited February 9
    My partner and I are playing this somewhat concurrently. They're on Basic, no DLC, and this is their first EO game.
    I'm on Expert, both DLC, because I'm working a lot of overtime shifts right now and don't have time to grind properly.
    So far the difficulty for these two experiences seems roughly the same, but my playtime has been halved.

    We've both just beaten Stratum 1, and I have to say it was an interesting experience for me.
    Having played EO1 and EOIV, and not EOU, the boss battle was super weird.
    Berserker King was 100% familiar. Cernunos was familiar looking but the fight was completely different.

    I had been lightly warned about Cross Counter before the fight, but didn't know when he was going to use it,
    so I just set most party members to defend/support most turns.
    On my first attempt through, he spawned the heal rollers on turn 4.
    I targeted them on turn 5, and OHKO'ed both of them... then my other 3 party members followed through on Cernunos...
    It was pretty funny tbh, that save point really took the sting out of it.

    Current party composition: Pug / Ronin / Ronin // Gunner / Sovereign.
    Bind everything, buffs, passive healing and spot healing, BIG DAMAGE.
    Everyone was upset that they nerfed thunder fist pug, but bind pug seems fine?

    Lucedes on
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Yeah, people wanted the other Pugilist.

  • LucedesLucedes *heaps mad squawk* Registered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    Yeah, people wanted the other Pugilist.

    why tho

    (i know it was power level, but it was by far the more boring design)

  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Because number big.

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I like binds being a focus of a class, but I wish we got Dark Hunter instead of Pugilist.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
    Polaritie
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I dunno if this counts as a spoiler or not, just to be safe.
    You know how in previous games the difficulty of monsters would have a spike when you go from one stratum to the next? That is absent from this game. The transition is fluid and you're not getting bodied all over again.
    Some of the things about Nexus on the design end worry me. I feel like it's a pilot run to change the series in more ways than just "you can't draw maps anymore." And while I'm past a really frustrating part (still learning what the game's exact flow is meant to be though), this is one of my least favorite entries in the series. After all the hype too, I kinda feel bad.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Design-wise, what is it about the game that you don't like? By the crossover nature of the game, none of the in-game systems are new. I don't really see how it's serving as a testing ground for a new vision for the dungeon-crawling game series, just a best attempt to combine as many key mechanics from the previous core titles as possible. The biggest change would probably be the point-to-point region map, with more than just dungeons to check out, but that doesn't feel major to me.

    chirisigtext.png
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited February 9
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    Design-wise, what is it about the game that you don't like? By the crossover nature of the game, none of the in-game systems are new. I don't really see how it's serving as a testing ground for a new vision for the dungeon-crawling game series, just a best attempt to combine as many key mechanics from the previous core titles as possible. The biggest change would probably be the point-to-point region map, with more than just dungeons to check out, but that doesn't feel major to me.
    Character progression has been changed. It's way more incremental than it used to be, both in level gains AND equipment benefits. On top of that enemies seemingly have more health and defense than in prior games, and then the XP gains are drastically lower, including quests and bosses.

    So overall I think they were a bit desperate to drag out the game's duration.

    Henroid on
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited February 9
    I haven't noticed a big difference in gains. I know the max level is higher, though, and it's supposed to be one of the longest games.

    PLA on
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Yeah, I haven't really noticed any major shifts, either. I don't think skill scaling is particularly different, and upgrading equipment, even for only a few defense points, has been a major factor in keeping pace with enemies. In terms of levels per hour, I feel like I'm on a similar pace as the previous games as well. As for enemy stats, I can agree that the early game has been tougher than previous games. But as I mentioned in my check-in post, towards the bottom of the 2nd Labyrinth my skills and equipment were building up enough of a rhythm that the difficulty is a more comfortable level of trickiness. That said, I haven't yet set foot into the 3rd Labyrinth so I don't know whether the difficulty will ratchet back up another step or not.

    chirisigtext.png
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    Yeah, I haven't really noticed any major shifts, either. I don't think skill scaling is particularly different, and upgrading equipment, even for only a few defense points, has been a major factor in keeping pace with enemies. In terms of levels per hour, I feel like I'm on a similar pace as the previous games as well. As for enemy stats, I can agree that the early game has been tougher than previous games. But as I mentioned in my check-in post, towards the bottom of the 2nd Labyrinth my skills and equipment were building up enough of a rhythm that the difficulty is a more comfortable level of trickiness. That said, I haven't yet set foot into the 3rd Labyrinth so I don't know whether the difficulty will ratchet back up another step or not.

    Out of curiosity - what difficulty level?

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited February 19
    Polaritie wrote: »
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    Yeah, I haven't really noticed any major shifts, either. I don't think skill scaling is particularly different, and upgrading equipment, even for only a few defense points, has been a major factor in keeping pace with enemies. In terms of levels per hour, I feel like I'm on a similar pace as the previous games as well. As for enemy stats, I can agree that the early game has been tougher than previous games. But as I mentioned in my check-in post, towards the bottom of the 2nd Labyrinth my skills and equipment were building up enough of a rhythm that the difficulty is a more comfortable level of trickiness. That said, I haven't yet set foot into the 3rd Labyrinth so I don't know whether the difficulty will ratchet back up another step or not.

    Out of curiosity - what difficulty level?

    Heroic (which is on the same level as Expert, but can only be selected on a New Game and can't be shifted back into, if changed).

    As promised, here's a Guild Card (which is somewhat out of date, sorry).
    EOX_AdamantGuild_01.png

    MrBlarney on
    chirisigtext.png
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Where in the menu do I even go to edit that message anyways?

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited February 9
    I know you guys are calling tutorial dungeon the "first labyrinth." I'm not, so keep that in mind when I say "2nd labyrinth, end of 2nd floor" for this spoiler here.
    Fucking Wyvern out of nowhere forcing me to floor 3 and I lose my thread. This is going to suck. Also I forgot my Survivalist had a safe step skill, so lol to some heals I threw around for tile damage.
    Edit - YO!
    Shilleka my girl!

    Henroid on
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Where in the menu do I even go to edit that message anyways?
    Inn > Guild Card > Manage Guild Cards > (Select own card) > (A: Edit) > Message. The edit menu is also where you can also save the QR code image to your SD card, via "QR Code Output".
    Henroid wrote: »
    I know you guys are calling tutorial dungeon the "first labyrinth." I'm not, so keep that in mind when I say "2nd labyrinth, end of 2nd floor" for this spoiler here.
    Why not? Spoiling myself to note that the game itself labels the Eastern Shrine as the "1st Labyrinth" (under the MAIN map tab), rather than a "Maze" (under the SUB map tab), so using the game's conventions is probably best to avoid the need for this kind of clarification.

    chirisigtext.png
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    'Cause it's a single floor, it amounts more to like a side dungeon rather than the first multi-floor one. The Lush Woodlands, as such, are the "first labyrinth" by my view. Tutorial dungeon is more like the Old Forest Mine from EO4. It may be bigger in terms of tile space but functionally it does the same thing.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Even so, it's probably safer to stick with the game's terminology for spoilers.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Wait the game is using that terminology?

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited February 10
    Yeah. You see the numberings on the splash screens when entering labyrinths, and, on the bottom screen, in the upper-left corner next to the labyrinth name and the right-side map selection sidebar.

    Also, who knows if there are other single-floor labyrinths like Eastern Shrine, or if Eastern Shrine itself will be revisited and expanded (a la EOU1 and EOU2). (OK, people who have played through the Japanese version would know, but they're not around here.)

    MrBlarney on
    chirisigtext.png
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Oh I found the EO3 trailer that I first heard Chalky Woods from, and from that point it just kinda became the themesong for the game for me.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • LucedesLucedes *heaps mad squawk* Registered User regular
    i got to the second optional dungeon, and uh

    nah

    i don't want to do that.

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Lucedes wrote: »
    i got to the second optional dungeon, and uh

    nah

    i don't want to do that.
    If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, HOOO BOY is that a way to have to navigate danger.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular

    Henroid
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Okay using proper terminology, I made it to Labyrinth 4 last night.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    I have a question about Etrian Odyssey V:
    Where the fuck did I put my copy of Etrian Odyssey V?

  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    I have a question about Etrian Odyssey V:
    Where the fuck did I put my copy of Etrian Odyssey V?
    Under a thing.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited February 10
    PLA wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    I have a question about Etrian Odyssey V:
    Where the fuck did I put my copy of Etrian Odyssey V?
    Under a thing.
    That very well may be right. Can you please check if my copy of Etrian Odyssey V is under you?

    Drez on
    PLA
  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    I have a question about Etrian Odyssey V:
    Where the fuck did I put my copy of Etrian Odyssey V?

    Well.
    Did you accidentally sell it to someone thinking you had a second copy lying around?

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Counting out total dungeons & floors I've done, I'm on the "10th" floor of the game right now if you measure things by the old game standards. Which makes my party level have some amount of sense (28).

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited February 10
    Frozenzen wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    I have a question about Etrian Odyssey V:
    Where the fuck did I put my copy of Etrian Odyssey V?

    Well.
    Did you accidentally sell it to someone thinking you had a second copy lying around?
    Nah. It's with my copy of Radiant Historia, though, I'm fairly sure, wherever the hell that is. edit: And Detective Pikachu! I put them in a box somewhere, I think. God damn it.

    Serious question: Should I finish V before playing Nexus? My copy of Nexus arrived but I thought I should finish V first. I got up to the second stratum.

    I also never played the Untold Stories, but I had finished the original games they remade so I felt they weren't totally necessary.

    Drez on
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited February 10
    The order doesn't really matter, though some DLC is free for a while, so you might as well grab that now.
    Nexus does lend itself to going last, because it says that a bunch of people just arrived from places like Iorys.

    PLA on
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    This isn't Kingdom Hearts, as far as "you have to play bleh before you understand blah." Etrian Odyssey is, for the most part, akin to how the Final Fantasy series started. Same name, a lot of shared elements like weapons and enemies, the occasional "REMEMBER THIS" boss fight.

    Untold 1 and 2 made a more deliberate effort in the story modes to make the series all linked in the same world, but again no game's plot depends on the other for relevant info or understanding anything going on.

    So play them in any order you want. Nexus draws on the first four games and refers to them a lot, so if you want that level of appreciation I'd save it for last.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    There's one story beat that basically ALL of the games do though in their final section of the dungeon.

    Anyways, I can play again, thanks to borrowing a 3DS... (I even checked my old 3DS I'd replaced due to broken R button... ALSO a swollen battery).

    Cleared up through the end of L2B1, and my comp is working a little better now that I have more AoE options (splash shot and paralyzing reap, which... honestly I should have grabbed right away but I'm all thinking "miasma build" and it doesn't cross my mind that it's perfectly good with one point to have the AoE swing and para chance). Probably should move my sovereign up front and have her start stabbing shit more.

    It has occurred to me that ultimately everyone on my team will have heals. Imperial/Hero healing the party every skill use (AKA every turn lol Impulse Edge combos), Harbinger with Atonement, Survivalist has the medica AoEs, Sovereign is Sovereign, and Gunner has medic bullet (which I don't know how much I'll invest in but it's absolutely worth the first point since it'll always be an ailment clear).

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited February 11
    Just made it to labyrinth 5. I finally understand this specific game's pacing and I still disagree with everyone - it's not the same as previous games in the series. At any rate, L5 spoilers:
    Enemies from EO5 confirmed. No idea if this is meaningful or not yet.

    Also YO we have multiple tiers of walkway in dungeons now! The ladder icon can be placed on the high or low ground to indicate where you go up and down, it'll change on your map accordingly to wherever you place it.
    As for L4 stratum boss spoilers,
    It took me a bit to realize that the damage Earthquake does wasn't auto-fatal, so having people not defending was fine. Just had to be good about healing up after.

    Edit - One more thing added to the L5 spoiler.

    Henroid on
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    Speaking of Rover, Dragoon and Necromancer, multiple of the same actually work well with eachother, and gain more elaborate builds by dividing tasks because higher level passives override lower levels in the party, and there's no reason to have two people with Wraith Dance or Tombstone Vice anyway.
    Necromancers can even guarantee Grave-counters by herding attacks to Fierce Shield, and even a Broker has one of those.
    A second Necromancer is almost necessary to reliably power up Negative Energy, too.

    PLA on
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