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[GoT][ASoIaF] It had its moments. (OPEN SPOILERS FOR S8, BEWARE)
jungleroomx
It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered User regular
It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered User regular
IT HAS BEEN DECREED FROM ABOVE THAT BOOK TALK WILL GO INTO SPOILERS, BUT SHOW SPOILERS UP TO THE CURRENT EPISODE ARE WIDE OPEN. READ FURTHER FOR MORE INFO.
http://chrysreviews.com does those funny little still by still overviews of the episodes in IMGUR albums. Yeah, those. Check them out!
THE FINAL SEASON IS UPON US! Make sure the North remembers April 14th.
Eventually coming to stores near you, the latest novel in the series from George R.R. Martin, The Winds of Winter.
RULES FOR THE THREAD: Aside from the general rules that govern most threads, there are two specific rules set here in the Got/ASoIaF thread.
1. Open spoilers for the TV show up to the current episode. Don't leak out details for episodes that have not aired yet, and don't complain if something gets spoiled for you if you're reading this. You've been warned.
2. Closed spoilers for the books. This is big, do not openly discuss things in the books that have not happened, or that are significantly differing from the show. Again, you've been warned.
FAQ
Q. I'm new and I'd like to start watching/reading this, how can I do it?
A. HBO's online site has all of the episodes. I hear you can stream them through Amazon Prime, but it still will cost the same as an HBO NOW subscription. All five of the books are widely available and can be gotten for fairly cheap as a set ($40-50).
Q. You don't have a lot on the front page, why is that?
A. Because if you don't know much of the show, we're 7 seasons and 5 books deep into the series, and this series is full of huge twists you probably won't see coming. I don't want to list characters because it may end up revealing some unintentional plot points. Basically, this is a thread for people who have already been exposed to the newest stuff, or don't mind having the story spoiled, but I feel putting potential spoilers in the OP is still a dick move.
Q. Why are you spoilering the books but not the show?
A. The books have had quite the hiatus between volumes. Also, the events of the books have been playing out differently for a while, and ever since Season 5 of the show ended it's been going even further. They are effectively 2 separate entities. That being said, the show is currently ongoing and will attract a large volume of chatter, so spoilering the show plotpoints leaves the entire thread nothing but spoiler buttons. If you are a book reader that doesn't want to proceed down the path any further, this thread may not be to your liking.
Q. Should I watch the show or read the books?
A. Depends. The show is diverging, and this last stretch may be a bit compressed in comparison to the novels. It's a different experience, as many will tell you, like the difference between a Hollywood movie and the source historical accounts. If you like the world, you'll probably end up doing both.
It's a gory, heartbreaking, nasty take at humankind at its worst, and very rarely is there happiness for all. Basically, after the first chapter/scene, you'll know what you're in for.
Also,
DROGON, DROGON, DROGON, DROGON
Alright folks, that's enough of that, now inn'it?
http://chrysreviews.com does those funny little still by still overviews of the episodes in IMGUR albums. Yeah, those. Check them out!
THE FINAL SEASON IS UPON US! Make sure the North remembers April 14th.
Eventually coming to stores near you, the latest novel in the series from George R.R. Martin, The Winds of Winter.
RULES FOR THE THREAD: Aside from the general rules that govern most threads, there are two specific rules set here in the Got/ASoIaF thread.
1. Open spoilers for the TV show up to the current episode. Don't leak out details for episodes that have not aired yet, and don't complain if something gets spoiled for you if you're reading this. You've been warned.
2. Closed spoilers for the books. This is big, do not openly discuss things in the books that have not happened, or that are significantly differing from the show. Again, you've been warned.
FAQ
Q. I'm new and I'd like to start watching/reading this, how can I do it?
A. HBO's online site has all of the episodes. I hear you can stream them through Amazon Prime, but it still will cost the same as an HBO NOW subscription. All five of the books are widely available and can be gotten for fairly cheap as a set ($40-50).
Q. You don't have a lot on the front page, why is that?
A. Because if you don't know much of the show, we're 7 seasons and 5 books deep into the series, and this series is full of huge twists you probably won't see coming. I don't want to list characters because it may end up revealing some unintentional plot points. Basically, this is a thread for people who have already been exposed to the newest stuff, or don't mind having the story spoiled, but I feel putting potential spoilers in the OP is still a dick move.
Q. Why are you spoilering the books but not the show?
A. The books have had quite the hiatus between volumes. Also, the events of the books have been playing out differently for a while, and ever since Season 5 of the show ended it's been going even further. They are effectively 2 separate entities. That being said, the show is currently ongoing and will attract a large volume of chatter, so spoilering the show plotpoints leaves the entire thread nothing but spoiler buttons. If you are a book reader that doesn't want to proceed down the path any further, this thread may not be to your liking.
Q. Should I watch the show or read the books?
A. Depends. The show is diverging, and this last stretch may be a bit compressed in comparison to the novels. It's a different experience, as many will tell you, like the difference between a Hollywood movie and the source historical accounts. If you like the world, you'll probably end up doing both.
It's a gory, heartbreaking, nasty take at humankind at its worst, and very rarely is there happiness for all. Basically, after the first chapter/scene, you'll know what you're in for.
Also,
DROGON, DROGON, DROGON, DROGON
Alright folks, that's enough of that, now inn'it?
jungleroomx on
+2
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
Wait did I type that here or in my diary?
The most recent episode was well over an hour (Amazon Prime listed it at 1:18, but that's with 5ish+ minutes of non-show stuff added in), so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.
That is a lot of minutes.
Or it just collapses into a heap of steaming slush.
Dracarys!
*poof*
Oh...
Right. New plan, boys!
*Several grumpy Walkers seen pressing icy coins into the outstretched hand of a bemused comrade*
If the threat wasn't real and she lost a Dragon, then she would have every right to be mad.
But like she said, the NK is a real threat, so the knowledge she has and that the realm will soon have was worth the mission, despite the steep cost.
Eh, she had no idea what to expect going north. I think she probably could have reasonably expected she and the dragons were doing something potentially fatal to them though.
This is pretty debatable, given that Jon and Co. were pretty much expendable (Jon would be the most missed as KingindaNorf) and they basically handed the walkers a WMD.
Of course, the walkers were very clearly trying to stop them from escaping with a captured wight, so maybe that'll work out better than I expect.
Yeah, I'm assuming that Dany and everyone else aren't thinking that the NK is going to be able to turn Viserys into a weapon of their own.
Dany was just weighing "losing a dragon" v "knowledge she and the kingdom will have". When you plop "undead dragon" on the left side of that scale, though, then she, and everyone else for that matter, might be thinking differently of the value of the mission.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
Some great individual scenes between different characters, mind. Well. Some of them. Teamsquad beyond the wall were great.
Arya seems to have become a total lunatic. And, like, compare her now with her even when she had just left Braavos. It's weird and entirely incoherent. Write-off really. A teenage fan fiction writer did this. Actually they'd probably do a better job.
Still. The Hound, Beric Dondarrion, Tormund... yeah boy! Tormund got a crap ending but whatever. Why even do that, and not just let him die in the final battle in a hero's death? That'd have been better. Great to see the crew racking up a serious body count mind.
Isn't the first thing Arya did upon leaving Braavos go and bake some kids into a pie?
She's been crazy for quite a while. We're just now seeing her relationship with her sister (which was largely about resentment back before all this shit happened) through the lens of an off-kilter murderer.
I don't particularly like the Arya/Sansa story but it seems entirely consistent with how Arya felt about Sansa before they split paths and how far off the deep end Arya has gone since.
Edit: Also, Tormund's not dead that I'm aware of? Did I miss him falling off the end of the dragon or something?
Three episodes ago or whatever when it met up
I was never a big Arya fan anyway, her character is cool but her plotline has been boring as shit, but still
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Like, he has so many. Are they all involved in the decision making process? Are they fuck. So far as I can tell it's the old man who makes all the calls, and plenty of the Freys aren't even at the Red Wedding probably
I mean if you're the Frey equivalent of Samwell Tarly you just killed by some creepy girl wearing your Dad's face. That's fucked up!
Well once you're marching under the banner of someone who betrayed one of the oldest most sacred customs in the realm, no one's really gonna care when you turn up missing.
Arya immediately upon her return to Winterfell behaved pretty much like Arya meeting the Lannister soldiers. Generally awkward and laughs it off when she deadpan states that she's an assassin planning on murdering people and others don't believe her. Now she's been there for a few months and is returning to her old, cattily-adversarial relationship with her big sister except that now she's a crazy person who murders people as a method of problem solving so what used to be expressed via rude comments and insults is expressed by threatening to kill Sansa in her sleep and then wear her face.
I believe the implication with the Freys is that the entire Frey clan was present at the Red Wedding and therefore, to Arya's mind, are complicit in the act. I'm sure in actuality plenty of them thought that was pretty fucked up but what are they going to do? Write off the family? Their titles, positions, land, etc. are all likely at the pleasure of Old Man Walder.
And the boys not being super pissed at the Hound
'oh, I know, let's poke at an uneasy stalemate before our reinforcements arrive, because boredom'
Benjen just showing up with no foreshadowing to save Jon. Doesn't even hop on the horse. Then does a "heroic sacrifice" 30 seconds after showing up, even while Jon is going WAIT WHAT THE FUCK HOW?! The sacrifice means nothing because it comes from a character that we didn't even know was around and had no setup. Also the sacrifice was useless because he could've hopped on the horse with Jon. Just sloppy, bad writing here.
If the Night King could throw magic super-javelins that can kill dragons mid-flight, why wasn't he doing that while they were trapped on the ice. Also, while they were trapped on the ice, why weren't the undead just walking underwater and then using their weapons to chip away at the ice close to the island? This is a minor quibble made jarring by the fact that we see the Night King just wreck a dragon from hundreds of yards away.
It does kind of feel like the show has a checklist of things they have to do before the show ends, and they aren't bothering to set it up or anything. I had the same complaint about Nymeria just showing up while Arya was travelling to Winterfell. No setup and nothing seems to have come from it, so what was the point?
Other than these complaints, I've been liking the recent season. The battles are great set pieces, at the very least. And the writing hasn't devolved into "Adventures in Dorne" territory quite yet. I guess things just feel disjointed with a lot of scenes designed for "payoff" moments that haven't felt earned. At least, that's how it feels to me.
Agreed about Benjen, that was a weak ending for that whole thing.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
Because the Night King wanted an Undead Dragon? Dead humans are pretty poor Mother of Dragons-bait.
When people like The Hound or Melisandre can see confusing visions of the future it's not so hard to believe that the Night King can do the same (especially considering his ability to notice the Greenseers).
The entire thing was a trap, a gambit where both sides thought they could outwit the other and get the upper hand.
Why else would the Night King send out undead in a party that's conventiently small enough that Jon&Co can nab one and give the Night King an undead tracking device (the wights seem to be an extension of his will)? Why else would the White walkers appear in such numbers? Why would they wait instead of using ranged weapons or even some god damn icemagic to freeze the waters? Why would they have massive chains ready?
The Night king knew he could get a dragon, and possibly kill Danaerys and Jon in the bargain (and he was pretty darn close).
The Gods of Light thought they could unite the south.
It remains to be seen who got the best of that encounter.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
This would be great if it were actually written into the show that I just watched.
No, seriously, I wish the writers did that, because this whole situation being a trap for Jon and Dany to get the Night King a dragon is assigning a level of quality to the writing that would make this whole thing way better. It needs to be spelled out in the actual show, if that's what they're going for.
With Jaime nor Bronn not dying at the Loot Train to this episode not losing anyone but Thoros, its feeling a bit more Hollywood. Especially when they keep doing fakeouts, like they've recently done with Jaime, Tormund, and Jorah.
I'm imagining Oprah handing dragons out to her audience.
"You get a dragon, you get a dragon..."
I could easily be wrong. But outside of the big surprising deaths that were written by GRRM, what OMG! deaths have there been? I think once they ran out of source material they defaulted back to standard writing strategy and plot armor was buffed.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
We don't know. Because the Night King isn't a POW character.
I do think there are hints built into the storyline.
1. They encounter a wight-bear (an ideal scouting unit). Which would pinpoint them to the wight king and allow him to set&bait the trap.
2. When they find the bait squad Jon wonders where the rest of them are, but given that none of them are Tywin-level schemers they don't see the possibilities.
3. The bait-squad even conveniently has a single wight not tied to the white walker leading the group. Possibly because the Night king wants his own eyes in every unit...but you know. Possibly bait.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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Its not so much OMG! deaths more that people just died all the time because it normally made sense for people to not miraculously escape from danger. I think we've had more close escapes made this season than the previous seasons combined. The story used to be more about stuff happening (both bad and good) because it made sense in the context of the situation and characters. It feels less so now.
I know they want the Night King to be super creepy and never talk. But if they had him say something like "yes" or "finally" or even laugh somewhat when the dragons arrived it would do a lot to drive home that it was all a trap.
The idea that this was specifically a dragon trap doesn't pan out for me from what we saw, even if we get all timey-wimey with the Night King maybe having precognitive powers.
Reason being: The wights were only waiting for the pond to freeze, then they went for the kill.
Meanwhile, the chain of events that brought the dragons had been set in motion before the standoff began. The immediate peril of Jon and Co. was not a factor in their arrival.