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[WH40K] The FAQ has arrived

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Posts

  • Sharp101Sharp101 TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited January 9
    I'm just starting to play around with some Death Guard lists for a new army and this discussion has been helpful in confirming some of my thoughts.

    In fact, my first draft of a 1500pt list has some stuff in common with the one Norgoth posted.

    Sharp101 on
    Khraul
  • NorgothNorgoth Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Yeah, this page has been awesome. Need more tactics / unit chatter. I love it to death.

    I've had one good experience with Cultists, but every other time they just seem to get gunned down without doing anything. They help fill out points / are a troop choice, obviously, but I dunno how else to use them effectively aside from blocking deep strikes.

    So like this


    Xxxxxx. Xxxxxxxx
    Yyyyyyyyyy

    X is your cultist units
    Y is poxwalkers

    Use the dead walk and cloud of flies strategems on the pox walkers. Work outside in so that one cultists is always closer.

    Congrats you just gained 2 points per cultist, and more importantly have a much larger poxwalker unit. The bigger the better because the str/t spell only buffs a single unit.

    If you want to be really silly combine a single massive unit of 40 cultists with abandon or a IW Warlord and make them immune to morale. That way as long as one is left you can tide of traitors them all back AND get the poxwalkers.

    If your playing pure DG I actually quite like them, remember cultists get the legion trait so can rapid fire turn one in a dawn of war deployment. For a 44 point deepstrike blocker it’s no half bad.

  • TraceofToxinTraceofToxin King Nothing Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Yeah, this page has been awesome. Need more tactics / unit chatter. I love it to death.

    I've had one good experience with Cultists, but every other time they just seem to get gunned down without doing anything. They help fill out points / are a troop choice, obviously, but I dunno how else to use them effectively aside from blocking deep strikes.

    40 man slaanesh squads. Give them +1 to wound, then fire twice. When they get beat down to almost nothing, use tide of traitors.

    Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Yeah, this page has been awesome. Need more tactics / unit chatter. I love it to death.

    I've had one good experience with Cultists, but every other time they just seem to get gunned down without doing anything. They help fill out points / are a troop choice, obviously, but I dunno how else to use them effectively aside from blocking deep strikes.

    Cultist dying means things that are important aren't dying.

    Let them die for the dark gods, that is their place.

    Especially if you have poxes with the stratagem behind them. You get more pox walkers then.

    03x29di.png
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    I didn't think you could Tide of Traitors without a Chaos Legion as a separate detachment, but, that's an awesome idea / strat. You referenced IW as a Warlord trait.

    ..the hell is that?

    Man, that tactic sounds great if not going first.

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  • DayspringDayspring the Phoenician Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Yeah, this page has been awesome. Need more tactics / unit chatter. I love it to death.

    I've had one good experience with Cultists, but every other time they just seem to get gunned down without doing anything. They help fill out points / are a troop choice, obviously, but I dunno how else to use them effectively aside from blocking deep strikes.

    40 man slaanesh squads. Give them +1 to wound, then fire twice. When they get beat down to almost nothing, use tide of traitors.

    VotLW gives you plus one to wound until the end of the shooting phase.
    Slaanesh’s strat lets you shoot for a second time at the end of the shooting phase.
    Would you get +1 to wound for the 2nd round of shooting?

    Dayspring on
  • McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited January 9
    Is the official ruling for "things happening at the same time" still up to the player who's turn it is?

    McGibs on
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  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    Dayspring wrote: »
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Yeah, this page has been awesome. Need more tactics / unit chatter. I love it to death.

    I've had one good experience with Cultists, but every other time they just seem to get gunned down without doing anything. They help fill out points / are a troop choice, obviously, but I dunno how else to use them effectively aside from blocking deep strikes.

    40 man slaanesh squads. Give them +1 to wound, then fire twice. When they get beat down to almost nothing, use tide of traitors.

    VotLW gives you plus one to wound until the end of the shooting phase.
    Slaanesh’s strat lets you shoot for a second time at the end of the shooting phase.
    Would you get +1 to wound for the 2nd round of shooting?

    Yes because it happens in the same phase. So VotLW is still in effect. Same for attack twice with Bezerkers and VotLW.

    Though Oblits, plasma havocs, normal havocs, and plasma termis are way better targets for those 3 command points.

    03x29di.png
  • NorgothNorgoth Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    I didn't think you could Tide of Traitors without a Chaos Legion as a separate detachment, but, that's an awesome idea / strat. You referenced IW as a Warlord trait.

    ..the hell is that?

    Man, that tactic sounds great if not going first.

    I meant the Iron Warriors Warlord trait. It’s immunity to morale checks in bubble.

  • TraceofToxinTraceofToxin King Nothing Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    I didn't think you could Tide of Traitors without a Chaos Legion as a separate detachment, but, that's an awesome idea / strat. You referenced IW as a Warlord trait.

    ..the hell is that?

    Man, that tactic sounds great if not going first.

    You need a chaos space marines detachment to unlock their strats. That's as easy as taking an IW sorcerer and 40 slaanesh cultists.

    Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
    Bizazedo
  • TraceofToxinTraceofToxin King Nothing Registered User regular
    Dayspring wrote: »
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Yeah, this page has been awesome. Need more tactics / unit chatter. I love it to death.

    I've had one good experience with Cultists, but every other time they just seem to get gunned down without doing anything. They help fill out points / are a troop choice, obviously, but I dunno how else to use them effectively aside from blocking deep strikes.

    40 man slaanesh squads. Give them +1 to wound, then fire twice. When they get beat down to almost nothing, use tide of traitors.

    VotLW gives you plus one to wound until the end of the shooting phase.
    Slaanesh’s strat lets you shoot for a second time at the end of the shooting phase.
    Would you get +1 to wound for the 2nd round of shooting?

    Yes.

    Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
  • DayspringDayspring the Phoenician Registered User regular
    Cast Prescience on them too because why not

  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    If you have two units of 5 Poxwalkers close behind one squad of 20 cultists and you play The Dead Walk, or whatever that stratagem is called....does one dead cultist turn into two poxwalkers?

    And separately, if you have a big horde of poxwalkers and the enemy charges into the side of them, let's say, the only thing the ones not in contact with them can do is Pile In, right?

    Does that mean like, if they're stuck like that for multiple turns, ones that are too far can Pile In AROUND the contact point?

    Bizazedo on
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  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    Dayspring wrote: »
    Cast Prescience on them too because why not

    My expensive deepstrike squad is:

    5x Termis with plasma
    1x Jump sorc with prescience and warptime

    Prescience, warptime termis. VotLW. Endless cacophony. Charge.

    Usually cleans up about 3 units if it goes off.

    Also the prescience means those termis get death to the false emperor on 5+.

    03x29di.png
  • NorgothNorgoth Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    If you have two units of 5 Poxwalkers close behind one squad of 20 cultists and you play The Dead Walk, or whatever that stratagem is called....does one dead cultist turn into two poxwalkers?

    And separately, if you have a big horde of poxwalkers and the enemy charges into the side of them, let's say, the only thing the ones not in contact with them can do is Pile In, right?

    Does that mean like, if they're stuck like that for multiple turns, ones that are too far can Pile In AROUND the contact point?

    So the strategem can only target one unit of poxwalkers, it’s an aura around them, so you only get one.

    And note quite with the pile in. So your right in that they cannot move and must pile in, but they do so towards the nearest enemy models, this means that one end of the chain can move towards another target provided it’s closer. (They will also get to consolidate, which works the same). It’s also optional. I very rarely leave my walkers in combat. It’s more often prudent to walk the out of combat so you can shoot the stuff in front of them to better absorb them into the horde.

  • BadablackBadablack Registered User regular
    My IG wannabe Chaos list has:

    Warptime/Prescience/daemonforge Lord of Skulls
    Fire Frenzy Missile/Lascannon Helbrute
    10 endless cacophony’d Havocs with lascannons
    Chaos Lord rerolls

    Useless against hordes, but it’ll clean up bigger stuff handily. I’m thinking of putting a couple of the newly discounted double flamer/fist helbrutes in front to discourage mass assault shenanigans.

    FC: 1435-5383-0883
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    I've been trying to use the Fire Frenzy stratagem in literally every game I've played with a Helbrute and thus far I haven't been able to. Either because the targets were poor, the fact that he had to move first, or we cut the game short.

    And even the game we cut short, the target he should've fired at was farther away than what the target I'd use the stratagem on was. I just wanted to use it.

    Bizazedo on
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  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    I've been trying to use the Fire Frenzy stratagem in literally every game I've played with a Helbrute and thus far I haven't been able to. Either because the targets were poor, the fact that he had to move first, or we cut the game short.

    And even the game we cut short, the target he should've fired at was farther away than what the target I'd use the stratagem on was. I just wanted to use it.

    I have used it a few times. When you have a good chance to use it then it is a golden 1 pt. Otherwise you at least always have the hellbrute! *hellbrute dies first turn*

    03x29di.png
  • McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    I think I've had a helbrute go crazy once since I started playing 8th, and I regularly run 3 in every game.

    website_header.jpg
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    That does remind me, though. Helbrutes have a rule where, if they're hurt in a phase, they roll and if they get a 6, they essentially get a free shooting phase or fight phase at the end of the phase in which they are hurt, targeting the closest unit. It can only happen once per phase I believe.

    In watching a ton of battle reports, I don't think I've ever seen them roll this rule. It's either edited out, they forgot it, or I am hallucinating and it doesn't exist.

    It seems like it could have been crazy effective at times.

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  • BadablackBadablack Registered User regular
    I run a helbrute with a plasma cannon partially to fish for mortal wounds and the chance to shoot again. It just happens very rarely, since it’s only on a 6 and usually if it’s taking damage they’re going to blow it up anyway.

    FC: 1435-5383-0883
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    That does remind me, though. Helbrutes have a rule where, if they're hurt in a phase, they roll and if they get a 6, they essentially get a free shooting phase or fight phase at the end of the phase in which they are hurt, targeting the closest unit. It can only happen once per phase I believe.

    In watching a ton of battle reports, I don't think I've ever seen them roll this rule. It's either edited out, they forgot it, or I am hallucinating and it doesn't exist.

    It seems like it could have been crazy effective at times.

    It does have that rule. It never happens, because either 1) the attack kills the helbrute rather than merely wounding it, 2) you roll less than 6, or 3) you plain forget because points 1 and 2 conspire to make it never happen anyway.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • TIFunkaliciousTIFunkalicious Kicking back in NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Has there been any word on whether CSM units with the daemon keyword can be in a battle forged daemon detachment? I have possessed and warp talons lying around

  • NorgothNorgoth Registered User regular
    Has there been any word on whether CSM units with the daemon keyword can be in a battle forged daemon detachment? I have possessed and warp talons lying around

    Only if Daemons is in their faction keywords list. I believe only warp talons and obliterated have this.

  • VanguardVanguard Just float along and fill your lungs Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    That does remind me, though. Helbrutes have a rule where, if they're hurt in a phase, they roll and if they get a 6, they essentially get a free shooting phase or fight phase at the end of the phase in which they are hurt, targeting the closest unit. It can only happen once per phase I believe.

    In watching a ton of battle reports, I don't think I've ever seen them roll this rule. It's either edited out, they forgot it, or I am hallucinating and it doesn't exist.

    It seems like it could have been crazy effective at times.

    It just almost never comes up. If you're running Deathguard, better to just keep him stationary and pop the the strategem that lets them shoot twice at the nearest target (assuming it's worth it).

  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    I had it go off once. It did very little.

    Oh wait twice. Once in close combat and it helped him win.

    03x29di.png
  • BadablackBadablack Registered User regular
    I put out the call at my local store for a mean list to play against as practice for the tourney coming up. Worst they could throw at me, hold nothing back. The collective nerdery came to agreement on what I should square up against.

    A heap of dark reapers, some psychic jets and wave serpents full of wraithguard. Bottom of turn 3 I had a Chaos Lord huddled in some ruins with half a helbrute doing its best rocky balboa impression.

    I feel I learned a great deal from the beating though, and got some valuable experience.

    FC: 1435-5383-0883
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    So I have a question does anyone have the hero bases or whatever they are called?
    I know some of them look over the top but are they worth it or just a silly thing or a hassle?

  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    That does remind me, though. Helbrutes have a rule where, if they're hurt in a phase, they roll and if they get a 6, they essentially get a free shooting phase or fight phase at the end of the phase in which they are hurt, targeting the closest unit. It can only happen once per phase I believe.

    In watching a ton of battle reports, I don't think I've ever seen them roll this rule. It's either edited out, they forgot it, or I am hallucinating and it doesn't exist.

    It seems like it could have been crazy effective at times.

    It just almost never comes up. If you're running Deathguard, better to just keep him stationary and pop the the strategem that lets them shoot twice at the nearest target (assuming it's worth it).

    Is there a preferred loadout for Hellbrutes or is it more dependant on overall (Deathguard) army build?

    I ask mostly because they look awesome and I want to build/paint one but fielding it would be good also.

    Khraul on
    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
  • NorgothNorgoth Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    I only ever play helbrutes with some kind of Melee weapon in DG, any other build and you have better choices. Drones and PBCs with cannons are better at anti-infantry and anti-tank respectively and are both cheaper and much harder to kill than helbrutes. Whoever mentioned it earlier is right, on averages a PBC is harder to kill than a land raider. Helbrutes are suprisingly fragile.

    I’ve always run mine with a fist, combi bolter and melta, and just sent them at the nearest tank, firing melta shots on the way up and hopefully getting into Melee.

    Edit: If you wanna get fancy with DG both the contemptor and Dedero are helbrutes and so get the legion trait. The ectoplasm Cannon or butcher cannons are both good choices.

    Norgoth on
    Khraul
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    I have a rules question. Let us say two Dire Avengers and a Warlock are near a swarm of Poxwalkers. The Dire Avengers are closer, but only barely, but the Warlock is nestled in to the side of the avengers. The Poxwalkers number a huge amount and want to charge.

    Can they still declare a charge against the Warlock in this situation as well as the Avengers? If they can't, how would they swarm around the Avengers if successful since that could bring them close to the Warlock.

    And if they can declare a multi-charge in this situation, once it's successful, only the Poxwalkers closest to the Warlock can attack the warlock, everything else goes on the Avengers?

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    Khraul
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    You can declare charges against anything that might be in range and for some special rules that trigger in close combat (Berzerkers for example) it's sometimes even advisable to declare charges against units that you'll only reach with repositioning after killing the unit that was your main target. Main drawback is that every unit you declared a charge against can overwatch.

    Bizazedo
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    So a charge with an exemplary success (say 11 inches) could effectively swarm around a small screen and also get into combat with a character and, as such, it can be a good idea to include them in the charge declaration? Cool, thank you.

    Does closest model still kick in in a melee or can all the attacks go on the character, even with say Dire Avengers in the scrum? After taking into account within 1 inch of a model within 1 inch of the target, etc.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    So a charge with an exemplary success (say 11 inches) could effectively swarm around a small screen and also get into combat with a character and, as such, it can be a good idea to include them in the charge declaration? Cool, thank you.

    Does closest model still kick in in a melee or can all the attacks go on the character, even with say Dire Avengers in the scrum? After taking into account within 1 inch of a model within 1 inch of the target, etc.

    Closest model rule for characters if you read it is for targeting in the shooting phase. In close combat it falls into the close combat targeting rules. So all units in 1" of the character or with in 1" of a model in 1" of the character can attack them.

    03x29di.png
    Bizazedo
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Thank you all.

    XBL: Bizazedo
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    Khraul
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    I can't believe I'm saying this...but the more I read my Codex: SM and core fluff, the more I want to make an Ultramarines army. R'Booty seems to be the only leader in the Imperium who isn't a religious fanatic. The Ultramarines have basically told the Ecclesiarchy to go jump off a bridge several times. They don't worship the emperor as a god, instead seeing him as a great man, but a man none the less. The Realm of Ultramar seems to be one of the only places in the Imperium where normal people have something approaching a decent life.

    Plus I really have an itch to build as close to a pure Primaris force as one can (obvious things like Predators still being in the army).

    Going to finish painting my Grey Knights before I do anything, but I think a Primaris heavy Ultramarines army is going to be my next project.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    TheColonelKhraul
  • TIFunkaliciousTIFunkalicious Kicking back in NebraskaRegistered User regular
    edited January 10
    Ultramarines are a hot contender for my favorite space marine look when the owner really goes for it on themed accessories and symbols on their dudes

    When I started playing I would have bet the farm that Dark Angels would be my main force for at least a while but here I am painting bloodletters

    TIFunkalicious on
    GnomeTank
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    They really do look good. I'm going to have to learn to edge highlight correctly to paint them though. That said, now that I have an airbrush, base coating Macragge Blue is going to be wayyyy easier.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    TheColonelCustom Special
  • BadablackBadablack Registered User regular
    They’re not for everyone, but it’s very satisfying to put together a space marine force with full insignia and regalia. Scratches that historical miniatures itch across medieval heraldry, WW1-2, and modern warfare all in one.

    FC: 1435-5383-0883
  • frayfray Registered User regular
    edited January 11
    I have similar feelings about Ultramarines and Bobby G, but I just find that blue boring. If I was going to play marines I'd probably go Salamanders or maybe Raven Guard, since Shrike is a boss and seems to actually give a few fucks about regular humans.

    Also, Black Library are looking for submissions and I'm definitely going to try and enter something this time. Somewhat hilariously they say they don't want graphic violence. I guess by graphic they mean beyond a certain point, but I'd be interested to have a conversation with them about exactly where that line is.

    fray on
    "I told you," said Ford. "Eddies in the space-time continuum."
    "And this is his sofa, is it?" said Arthur.
This discussion has been closed.