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[WH40K] The FAQ has arrived

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Posts

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    edited January 2018
    The new guy at our store only had around 600 points worth of models assembled (he's starting Dark Angels), so we ended up doing a 2v2 of around 2600 points per side. It was his dudes plus 2k points of my Space Marines on our side, and around 2600 points of Grey Knights on the other side. It was a demo/learning game for the new dude so we just went Dawn of War deployment and just did a big old deathmatch. It was my first time playing against a GK army, and I really didn't know anything about how they are on the table. Long story short: Facing Grey Knights when you only have one Psyker in your entire army is a recipe for getting dunked on.

    I had thrown in a bunch of models and units that I don't take very often to mix things up a bit, including a Space Marine Party Pod filled with seven Marines, an Apothecary, a Librarian, and a Company Champion. I had planned on dropping the pod right next to a group of Terminators (five Terminators, one Captain in Terminator Armor, and a Chaplain in Terminator Armor) so we could make a big push on a Dreadknight Grandmaster group. The Pod lands, they all get out, and our opponents nab the Play of the Game by casting Vortex of Doom (If manifested, a vortex opens above the nearest visible enemy model within 12"; that model's unit, and every other within 3" of that model, suffers d3 mortal wounds) on the Drop Pod... meaning they managed to get D3 mortal wounds on seven units.

    I walked right into it and I would have been furious if I wasn't laughing so hard.

    SmokeStacks on
    73CQcJZ.png
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Oh man, that's like the perfect storm for that power! You can normally get it off on a parking lot of vehicles where the chaff conga-line of guardsmen is less than 3 inches thin, but meh, d3 guardsmen dead and you scratch the hull of a couple tanks. Good start but not really devastating.

    On the bright side, the guy didn't roll 11+, making it 1d6 wounds, lol ;-)

    Mazzyx
  • BadablackBadablack Registered User regular
    Do Grey Knights still have that purifier power that annihilates everything around the unit? I remember that stupid thing murdering me in 7th.

    FC: 1435-5383-0883
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Grey Knights seem way scarier till you realize they just fall quickly to a wall of small arms fire.

    Their smite is just 1 damage if it is a normal unit. And they are so expensive you don't get a ton.

    I think the biggest issue is getting them to people. Really they are just 1 w marines and die to everything that kills marines.

    03x29di.png
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Grey Knights seem way scarier till you realize they just fall quickly to a wall of small arms fire.

    Their smite is just 1 damage if it is a normal unit. And they are so expensive you don't get a ton.

    I think the biggest issue is getting them to people. Really they are just 1 w marines and die to everything that kills marines.

    How do daemons really fare against grey knights?

    The club I'm getting into, and the buddy of mine who's getting me back into the hobby, run grey knights.

    I'd like to pair some nurgle daemons with my fledgling death guard army, but I'm concerned they'd be torn to shreds.

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Grey Knights seem way scarier till you realize they just fall quickly to a wall of small arms fire.

    Their smite is just 1 damage if it is a normal unit. And they are so expensive you don't get a ton.

    I think the biggest issue is getting them to people. Really they are just 1 w marines and die to everything that kills marines.

    How do daemons really fare against grey knights?

    The club I'm getting into, and the buddy of mine who's getting me back into the hobby, run grey knights.

    I'd like to pair some nurgle daemons with my fledgling death guard army, but I'm concerned they'd be torn to shreds.

    You will eat mortal wounds but if the smite beta rules become the norm it nerfs a lot of that. Nurgle survives mortal wounds better than any other daemon anyway. Your DG also can outrange and out shoot a lot of the GK and you can also just use pox walkers to absorb the smites.

    Remember smite hits the closest unit so just put stuff that is sacrificial in front of stuff.

    03x29di.png
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Grey Knights seem way scarier till you realize they just fall quickly to a wall of small arms fire.

    Their smite is just 1 damage if it is a normal unit. And they are so expensive you don't get a ton.

    I think the biggest issue is getting them to people. Really they are just 1 w marines and die to everything that kills marines.

    How do daemons really fare against grey knights?

    The club I'm getting into, and the buddy of mine who's getting me back into the hobby, run grey knights.

    I'd like to pair some nurgle daemons with my fledgling death guard army, but I'm concerned they'd be torn to shreds.

    You will eat mortal wounds but if the smite beta rules become the norm it nerfs a lot of that. Nurgle survives mortal wounds better than any other daemon anyway. Your DG also can outrange and out shoot a lot of the GK and you can also just use pox walkers to absorb the smites.

    Remember smite hits the closest unit so just put stuff that is sacrificial in front of stuff.

    I'm still learning 8th edition and did not know that.

    That's easy to work with then... I was super concerned about dumping cash on a GUO and him just getting dumpstered every match.

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Grey Knights seem way scarier till you realize they just fall quickly to a wall of small arms fire.

    Their smite is just 1 damage if it is a normal unit. And they are so expensive you don't get a ton.

    I think the biggest issue is getting them to people. Really they are just 1 w marines and die to everything that kills marines.

    How do daemons really fare against grey knights?

    The club I'm getting into, and the buddy of mine who's getting me back into the hobby, run grey knights.

    I'd like to pair some nurgle daemons with my fledgling death guard army, but I'm concerned they'd be torn to shreds.

    You will eat mortal wounds but if the smite beta rules become the norm it nerfs a lot of that. Nurgle survives mortal wounds better than any other daemon anyway. Your DG also can outrange and out shoot a lot of the GK and you can also just use pox walkers to absorb the smites.

    Remember smite hits the closest unit so just put stuff that is sacrificial in front of stuff.

    I'm still learning 8th edition and did not know that.

    That's easy to work with then... I was super concerned about dumping cash on a GUO and him just getting dumpstered every match.

    One of the biggest things about more competitive armies is building in a chaff firewall. I use cultist for it. Death Guard have both cultist and Pox Walkers, and you can even get pox walkers from your cultist!

    Proper placement and deployment is important. I think DG have some of the best.

    03x29di.png
    Khraul
  • TIFunkaliciousTIFunkalicious Kicking back in NebraskaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2018
    I watched Celestine solo kill like 600 points this friday It was a far cry from the only other time I've seen her where she charged a daemon prince, did no damage, and got killed by the swing back

    It was a little embarrassing to lose a punchout vs imperials as a khorne themed army. I still don't know if it's a better idea to dump as many attacks as possible early on into a character like that or split it up between other units I have a good chance of actually destroying

    TIFunkalicious on
    Khraul
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Grey Knights seem way scarier till you realize they just fall quickly to a wall of small arms fire.

    Their smite is just 1 damage if it is a normal unit. And they are so expensive you don't get a ton.

    I think the biggest issue is getting them to people. Really they are just 1 w marines and die to everything that kills marines.

    How do daemons really fare against grey knights?

    The club I'm getting into, and the buddy of mine who's getting me back into the hobby, run grey knights.

    I'd like to pair some nurgle daemons with my fledgling death guard army, but I'm concerned they'd be torn to shreds.

    You will eat mortal wounds but if the smite beta rules become the norm it nerfs a lot of that. Nurgle survives mortal wounds better than any other daemon anyway. Your DG also can outrange and out shoot a lot of the GK and you can also just use pox walkers to absorb the smites.

    Remember smite hits the closest unit so just put stuff that is sacrificial in front of stuff.

    I'm still learning 8th edition and did not know that.

    That's easy to work with then... I was super concerned about dumping cash on a GUO and him just getting dumpstered every match.

    One of the biggest things about more competitive armies is building in a chaff firewall. I use cultist for it. Death Guard have both cultist and Pox Walkers, and you can even get pox walkers from your cultist!

    Proper placement and deployment is important. I think DG have some of the best.

    Well lucky for me I found another 20 poxwalkers on ebay for like $20 a few days ago, which I'm excited to continue painting.

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    On the topic of smite walls, watch out for Culexus assassins; if they are closest they must be hit and because they are completely immune to psychic powers they will effectively earth your force lightning for no damage whatsoever. Given their relatively lacklustre combat abilities and their aura, standing next to a psyker to annoy it to death is probably one of their better uses too, but some people really like them.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Grey Knights seem way scarier till you realize they just fall quickly to a wall of small arms fire.

    Their smite is just 1 damage if it is a normal unit. And they are so expensive you don't get a ton.

    I think the biggest issue is getting them to people. Really they are just 1 w marines and die to everything that kills marines.

    How do daemons really fare against grey knights?

    The club I'm getting into, and the buddy of mine who's getting me back into the hobby, run grey knights.

    I'd like to pair some nurgle daemons with my fledgling death guard army, but I'm concerned they'd be torn to shreds.

    You will eat mortal wounds but if the smite beta rules become the norm it nerfs a lot of that. Nurgle survives mortal wounds better than any other daemon anyway. Your DG also can outrange and out shoot a lot of the GK and you can also just use pox walkers to absorb the smites.

    Remember smite hits the closest unit so just put stuff that is sacrificial in front of stuff.

    I'm still learning 8th edition and did not know that.

    That's easy to work with then... I was super concerned about dumping cash on a GUO and him just getting dumpstered every match.

    One of the biggest things about more competitive armies is building in a chaff firewall. I use cultist for it. Death Guard have both cultist and Pox Walkers, and you can even get pox walkers from your cultist!

    Proper placement and deployment is important. I think DG have some of the best.

    A proper wall is vital to competitive play, it allows you too

    Screen against smites.
    Prevent deep strikes.
    Control where it’s possible for aircraft to stop.
    Speedbump powerful Melee units.

    It’s part of the reason why super elite armies like Grey Knights (and custodes) are terrible in competitive play. A smite hits my cultists and kills three. Who cares. That same smite hits a custodes and kills him that’s the same (points wise) as killing almost the entire unit of cultists. It’s also much easier to run rings around them. It’s almosy trival to simply walk around units to target characters without the chaff.

    I wouldn’t worry about Grey Knights as deamons. Here’s what happens. They spam out smites and kill a bunch of plaguebearers, and finish the unit with shooting. You spend 2cp. They all come back. If your willing to go outside Nurgle the bloodletter bomb (30 Bloodletters, banner of blood, deepstriking with denizens of the year warp) will kill a ton of grey knights and there’s very little they can do about it.

    Khraulstopgap
  • ElaroElaro Bleeding MonumentRegistered User regular
    I want to run Grey Knights. So I added some Imperial Guard chaff to my army.
    ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [61 PL, 1132pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [14 PL, 305pts]: 3: Unyielding Anvil, Dreadfist, Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter, Gate of Infinity, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Warlord

    Grey Knight Chaplain [8 PL, 146pts]: Purge Soul, Storm bolter

    + Troops +

    Terminator Squad [13 PL, 233pts]: Gate of Infinity
    . Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm bolter, Two Nemesis Falchions
    . 3x Terminator (Falchions): 3x Storm Bolter
    . Terminator (Incinerator): Incinerator (Terminator), Nemesis Warding Stave

    Terminator Squad [13 PL, 233pts]: Vortex of Doom
    . Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm bolter, Two Nemesis Falchions
    . 3x Terminator (Falchions): 3x Storm Bolter
    . Terminator (Incinerator): Incinerator (Terminator), Nemesis Warding Stave

    Terminator Squad [13 PL, 215pts]: Gate of Infinity
    . Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm bolter, Two Nemesis Falchions
    . 4x Terminator (Falchions): 4x Storm Bolter

    ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [31 PL, 593pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Brother-Captain [9 PL, 165pts]: Gate of Infinity, Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

    + Elites +

    Apothecary [5 PL, 90pts]: Nemesis Force Halberd, Sanctuary

    Paladin Ancient [7 PL, 160pts]: Hammerhand
    . Psycannon: Psycannon (Terminator)

    Paladin Squad [10 PL, 178pts]: Vortex of Doom
    . 2x Paladin (Falchions): 2x Storm Bolter
    . Paragon: Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

    ++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [16 PL, 275pts] ++

    + No Force Org Slot +

    Regiment: Valhallan

    + HQ +

    Lord Commissar [4 PL, 55pts]: Bolt pistol, Power sword

    + Fast Attack +

    Armoured Sentinels [6 PL, 126pts]
    . Armoured Sentinel: Hunter-killer missile, Plasma Cannon, Sentinel Chainsaw
    . Armoured Sentinel: Hunter-killer missile, Plasma Cannon, Sentinel Chainsaw

    + Troops +

    Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
    . 8x Guardsman
    . Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
    . Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

    Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
    . 8x Guardsman
    . Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
    . Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

    ++ Total: [108 PL, 2000pts] ++

    The idea being that I use the guardspeople as chaff for my Grand Master Dreadknight, while the rest of my army stays very mobile with all the Gates of Infinity.

    Oct1o4x.png
    Derp derp I'm a smurf
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Grey Knights seem way scarier till you realize they just fall quickly to a wall of small arms fire.

    Their smite is just 1 damage if it is a normal unit. And they are so expensive you don't get a ton.

    I think the biggest issue is getting them to people. Really they are just 1 w marines and die to everything that kills marines.

    How do daemons really fare against grey knights?

    The club I'm getting into, and the buddy of mine who's getting me back into the hobby, run grey knights.

    I'd like to pair some nurgle daemons with my fledgling death guard army, but I'm concerned they'd be torn to shreds.

    You will eat mortal wounds but if the smite beta rules become the norm it nerfs a lot of that. Nurgle survives mortal wounds better than any other daemon anyway. Your DG also can outrange and out shoot a lot of the GK and you can also just use pox walkers to absorb the smites.

    Remember smite hits the closest unit so just put stuff that is sacrificial in front of stuff.

    I'm still learning 8th edition and did not know that.

    That's easy to work with then... I was super concerned about dumping cash on a GUO and him just getting dumpstered every match.

    One of the biggest things about more competitive armies is building in a chaff firewall. I use cultist for it. Death Guard have both cultist and Pox Walkers, and you can even get pox walkers from your cultist!

    Proper placement and deployment is important. I think DG have some of the best.

    A proper wall is vital to competitive play, it allows you too

    Screen against smites.
    Prevent deep strikes.
    Control where it’s possible for aircraft to stop.
    Speedbump powerful Melee units.

    It’s part of the reason why super elite armies like Grey Knights (and custodes) are terrible in competitive play. A smite hits my cultists and kills three. Who cares. That same smite hits a custodes and kills him that’s the same (points wise) as killing almost the entire unit of cultists. It’s also much easier to run rings around them. It’s almosy trival to simply walk around units to target characters without the chaff.

    I wouldn’t worry about Grey Knights as deamons. Here’s what happens. They spam out smites and kill a bunch of plaguebearers, and finish the unit with shooting. You spend 2cp. They all come back. If your willing to go outside Nurgle the bloodletter bomb (30 Bloodletters, banner of blood, deepstriking with denizens of the year warp) will kill a ton of grey knights and there’s very little they can do about it.

    I'm already projecting ahead at what I'd like to build... building into bloodletters for a future daemon only army isn't a huge stretch on the imagination. Especially as I actually like the khorne demons quite a bit more than a lot of the nurgle units looks-wise

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
  • ChrysisChrysis Registered User regular
    Elaro wrote: »
    I want to run Grey Knights. So I added some Imperial Guard chaff to my army.
    ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [61 PL, 1132pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [14 PL, 305pts]: 3: Unyielding Anvil, Dreadfist, Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter, Gate of Infinity, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Warlord

    Grey Knight Chaplain [8 PL, 146pts]: Purge Soul, Storm bolter

    + Troops +

    Terminator Squad [13 PL, 233pts]: Gate of Infinity
    . Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm bolter, Two Nemesis Falchions
    . 3x Terminator (Falchions): 3x Storm Bolter
    . Terminator (Incinerator): Incinerator (Terminator), Nemesis Warding Stave

    Terminator Squad [13 PL, 233pts]: Vortex of Doom
    . Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm bolter, Two Nemesis Falchions
    . 3x Terminator (Falchions): 3x Storm Bolter
    . Terminator (Incinerator): Incinerator (Terminator), Nemesis Warding Stave

    Terminator Squad [13 PL, 215pts]: Gate of Infinity
    . Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm bolter, Two Nemesis Falchions
    . 4x Terminator (Falchions): 4x Storm Bolter

    ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [31 PL, 593pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Brother-Captain [9 PL, 165pts]: Gate of Infinity, Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

    + Elites +

    Apothecary [5 PL, 90pts]: Nemesis Force Halberd, Sanctuary

    Paladin Ancient [7 PL, 160pts]: Hammerhand
    . Psycannon: Psycannon (Terminator)

    Paladin Squad [10 PL, 178pts]: Vortex of Doom
    . 2x Paladin (Falchions): 2x Storm Bolter
    . Paragon: Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

    ++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [16 PL, 275pts] ++

    + No Force Org Slot +

    Regiment: Valhallan

    + HQ +

    Lord Commissar [4 PL, 55pts]: Bolt pistol, Power sword

    + Fast Attack +

    Armoured Sentinels [6 PL, 126pts]
    . Armoured Sentinel: Hunter-killer missile, Plasma Cannon, Sentinel Chainsaw
    . Armoured Sentinel: Hunter-killer missile, Plasma Cannon, Sentinel Chainsaw

    + Troops +

    Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
    . 8x Guardsman
    . Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
    . Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

    Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
    . 8x Guardsman
    . Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
    . Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

    ++ Total: [108 PL, 2000pts] ++

    The idea being that I use the guardspeople as chaff for my Grand Master Dreadknight, while the rest of my army stays very mobile with all the Gates of Infinity.

    Assuming Matched Play, you can only Gate of Infinity once a turn. No psychic power (except smite) can be attempted more than once a turn.

    Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
    Lanlaorn
  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Khraul wrote: »
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Grey Knights seem way scarier till you realize they just fall quickly to a wall of small arms fire.

    Their smite is just 1 damage if it is a normal unit. And they are so expensive you don't get a ton.

    I think the biggest issue is getting them to people. Really they are just 1 w marines and die to everything that kills marines.

    How do daemons really fare against grey knights?

    The club I'm getting into, and the buddy of mine who's getting me back into the hobby, run grey knights.

    I'd like to pair some nurgle daemons with my fledgling death guard army, but I'm concerned they'd be torn to shreds.

    You will eat mortal wounds but if the smite beta rules become the norm it nerfs a lot of that. Nurgle survives mortal wounds better than any other daemon anyway. Your DG also can outrange and out shoot a lot of the GK and you can also just use pox walkers to absorb the smites.

    Remember smite hits the closest unit so just put stuff that is sacrificial in front of stuff.

    I'm still learning 8th edition and did not know that.

    That's easy to work with then... I was super concerned about dumping cash on a GUO and him just getting dumpstered every match.

    One of the biggest things about more competitive armies is building in a chaff firewall. I use cultist for it. Death Guard have both cultist and Pox Walkers, and you can even get pox walkers from your cultist!

    Proper placement and deployment is important. I think DG have some of the best.

    A proper wall is vital to competitive play, it allows you too

    Screen against smites.
    Prevent deep strikes.
    Control where it’s possible for aircraft to stop.
    Speedbump powerful Melee units.

    It’s part of the reason why super elite armies like Grey Knights (and custodes) are terrible in competitive play. A smite hits my cultists and kills three. Who cares. That same smite hits a custodes and kills him that’s the same (points wise) as killing almost the entire unit of cultists. It’s also much easier to run rings around them. It’s almosy trival to simply walk around units to target characters without the chaff.

    I wouldn’t worry about Grey Knights as deamons. Here’s what happens. They spam out smites and kill a bunch of plaguebearers, and finish the unit with shooting. You spend 2cp. They all come back. If your willing to go outside Nurgle the bloodletter bomb (30 Bloodletters, banner of blood, deepstriking with denizens of the year warp) will kill a ton of grey knights and there’s very little they can do about it.

    I'm already projecting ahead at what I'd like to build... building into bloodletters for a future daemon only army isn't a huge stretch on the imagination. Especially as I actually like the khorne demons quite a bit more than a lot of the nurgle units looks-wise

    I was actually looking more into the other daemon units earlier today, there’s some nice hidden gems in there. Did you know the exalted chariot has 16 attacks on a 2+? Because it does, and is a cool 100 points. A unit of 30 pink horrors puts out 90 shots and a herald can make then Str 4, +1 to wound and rerolling ones to hit. The masque can give +1 to hit in Melee to literally anything and is probably best buds with beserkers.

    Khraul
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    That's another strike against elite armies, all the various buffs make large units of weak units brutally oustcale elite armies. You can get a banner and some terminators to give them +1 A for five bonus attacks or you can use a priest to give eighty guardsmen +1A and get eighty bonus attacks. Are five terminator attacks more powerful than eighty guardsmen attacks? Not even close, even in the best case scenario. And all the side effects, taking up more force org slots, taking up more table space, are pure bonus more CP and board control.

    So things that are better naturally then proceed to scale even better when buffs and auras are applied.

  • BadablackBadablack Registered User regular
    Morale was supposed to balance out the inherent strengths of hordes, but then GW added a ton of ways to negate morale losses in every horde army. Kinda defeats the original purpose of morale.

    FC: 1435-5383-0883
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    Such is the price we pay for GW's decision to eliminate template weapons.

    73CQcJZ.png
    Moridin889
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    I don't really miss templates. I like 8th's system more than 5th or 6th. And it still feels way more balanced than 40k has ever been. And they at least have been willing to try and balance things in short order.

    In other news. I have been sitting and considering where to move my army next.

    I know the following are being built/made/painted out-

    1)Obliterator Squad (made out of green stuff and aggressors when I get up the nerve)
    2)At least one predator
    3)One more maulerfiend, I think pairs are best with this
    4)Finishing off my noise marine squads (I need 1 blastmaster and 10 sonic blasters)

    From there I don't know. Maybe some slaanesh daemons?

    Or maybe I shall branch into some undivide. Tzeentch looks fun to paint. 1k Sons is out soon and Tzangors look neat. Plus I could use them as an AoS army. I have not enjoyed painting Slaanesh daemons.

    Or just keep hoping that maybe Slaanesh will get a full release.

    03x29di.png
    KhraulForceVoid
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Grey Knights seem way scarier till you realize they just fall quickly to a wall of small arms fire.

    Their smite is just 1 damage if it is a normal unit. And they are so expensive you don't get a ton.

    I think the biggest issue is getting them to people. Really they are just 1 w marines and die to everything that kills marines.

    How do daemons really fare against grey knights?

    The club I'm getting into, and the buddy of mine who's getting me back into the hobby, run grey knights.

    I'd like to pair some nurgle daemons with my fledgling death guard army, but I'm concerned they'd be torn to shreds.

    You will eat mortal wounds but if the smite beta rules become the norm it nerfs a lot of that. Nurgle survives mortal wounds better than any other daemon anyway. Your DG also can outrange and out shoot a lot of the GK and you can also just use pox walkers to absorb the smites.

    Remember smite hits the closest unit so just put stuff that is sacrificial in front of stuff.

    I'm still learning 8th edition and did not know that.

    That's easy to work with then... I was super concerned about dumping cash on a GUO and him just getting dumpstered every match.

    One of the biggest things about more competitive armies is building in a chaff firewall. I use cultist for it. Death Guard have both cultist and Pox Walkers, and you can even get pox walkers from your cultist!

    Proper placement and deployment is important. I think DG have some of the best.

    A proper wall is vital to competitive play, it allows you too

    Screen against smites.
    Prevent deep strikes.
    Control where it’s possible for aircraft to stop.
    Speedbump powerful Melee units.

    It’s part of the reason why super elite armies like Grey Knights (and custodes) are terrible in competitive play. A smite hits my cultists and kills three. Who cares. That same smite hits a custodes and kills him that’s the same (points wise) as killing almost the entire unit of cultists. It’s also much easier to run rings around them. It’s almosy trival to simply walk around units to target characters without the chaff.

    I wouldn’t worry about Grey Knights as deamons. Here’s what happens. They spam out smites and kill a bunch of plaguebearers, and finish the unit with shooting. You spend 2cp. They all come back. If your willing to go outside Nurgle the bloodletter bomb (30 Bloodletters, banner of blood, deepstriking with denizens of the year warp) will kill a ton of grey knights and there’s very little they can do about it.

    I'm already projecting ahead at what I'd like to build... building into bloodletters for a future daemon only army isn't a huge stretch on the imagination. Especially as I actually like the khorne demons quite a bit more than a lot of the nurgle units looks-wise

    I was actually looking more into the other daemon units earlier today, there’s some nice hidden gems in there. Did you know the exalted chariot has 16 attacks on a 2+? Because it does, and is a cool 100 points. A unit of 30 pink horrors puts out 90 shots and a herald can make then Str 4, +1 to wound and rerolling ones to hit. The masque can give +1 to hit in Melee to literally anything and is probably best buds with beserkers.

    This is where I love having access to people like yourself and everyone else in this thread :heartbeat:

    Just getting back into the hobby after so many years I'm playing a ton of catch up, tips like these are gold.

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  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    From a lore standpoint, what's the consensus on interring a normal human inside a Dreadnought? I know that the procedure (and life afterward) is supposed to be extremely hard on the psyche of the Space Marine inside (especially larger Dreads like the Redemptor and Leviathan), but I'm still curious.

    Initially I was leaning toward no, or that even if they did survive the internment they would go insane incredibly quickly, but at the same time regular humans can pilot Titans through neural interfaces, and Penitent Engines are piloted by regular humans as well.

    73CQcJZ.png
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Maybe not a Space Marine Dreadnought dreadnought, but I'm sure there are some equivalents with normal humans in them running around somewhere. Large combat seritors for example or something similar.


    Most of the Custodes look pretty cool, but the proportions of the Terminators look really off. The legs look so short.

    That limited edition of the codex looks pretty nifty, too.

    Khraul
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Some of the Mechanicum's magos are pretty close to just a brain in a jar that's hooked into a bunch of machinery. The novel Titanicus had a Princeps who got blowed up somehow and the Mechanicum stuck him in a jar which they then plugged into his next Titan. I think he considered the jar interface to be an improvement.

    KhraulLanlaornDracomicron
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    It feels like the small, elite armies should get bonus CP. Maybe massive amounts of bonus CP. As said, it seems like the more elite, the more the hordes just flatten them.

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  • frayfray Registered User regular
    Yeah there are plenty of examples of stuff like that in the fluff. The main character in the Ravenor books is basically just a brain in a floating box.

    "I told you," said Ford. "Eddies in the space-time continuum."
    "And this is his sofa, is it?" said Arthur.
    KhraulMoridin889
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    It feels like the small, elite armies should get bonus CP. Maybe massive amounts of bonus CP. As said, it seems like the more elite, the more the hordes just flatten them.

    I've got the distinct impression that horde armies are too strong just because so many of 8th edition's mechanics favour them.

    More command points, more men to get buffed by auras, no template weaponry to clear them out, leadership not being a major danger...

    italianranmaLanlaorn
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    It feels like the small, elite armies should get bonus CP. Maybe massive amounts of bonus CP. As said, it seems like the more elite, the more the hordes just flatten them.

    I've got the distinct impression that horde armies are too strong just because so many of 8th edition's mechanics favour them.

    More command points, more men to get buffed by auras, no template weaponry to clear them out, leadership not being a major danger...

    I will say morale is hilarious when it goes off. I cleared off 14 gargoyles on Saturday after killing the last synapse creature in range. It was fantastic.

    I do think there needs to be a rearrangement with how CP is doled out. Right now it rewards armies who already are rewarded by base build of 8th with lots of bodies. And some of those armies have a lot of recycling of CP compared to elite armies as well.

    Looks at guard with their near infinite CP generation.

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  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »

    I've got the distinct impression that horde armies are too strong just because so many of 8th edition's mechanics favour them.

    More command points, more men to get buffed by auras, no template weaponry to clear them out, leadership not being a major danger...
    Well, I dunno if the template matters due to my inexperience. I never played with the templates, but I read the prior template weapons were replaced with additional hits. Given the newbs I joined 40k with, I think the template bit would've actually been a demotivator to them anyways. They get dice, adding tools makes them roll their eyes (for better or worse).

    It's just as Mazzyx said, the horde armies also get a horrendous amount of CPs to play with. There should be a penalty.

    Would it matter a lot of a massive Guard army got 4 CPs and a Custodes / Grey Knights one got 12? Essentially, reversing them? I dunno.

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  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Ideally they should have the base 3cps vary by army, so custodes get say 6, Guard get zero, everyone else somewhere in between.

  • DayspringDayspring the Phoenician Registered User regular
    There need to be better weapons for clearing hordes for elite units

    Lanlaorn
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Thousand Sons is up

    First they have 3 disciplines for spells. The normal CSM one, their own, and the Tzeentch Daemon one. Which is neat. They also get webway infiltration which is exactly like the Eldar Webway drop which sounds mean with say a huge rubicae block in a flank.

    Also buffs for spawn and a double attack stratagem for Tzaangors.

    Also confirmed Heldrakes and Helbrutes in the preview as well.

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    Khraul
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    They're saying that the 1kSons are embracing the flesh change now? Ugh.

    MaydayLanlaorn
  • CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    edited January 2018
    The former blast and template weapons should scale based on the size of the unit being attacked

    The grav flux bombard adds an extra D3 for every 5 models in a unit; flamers, frag grenades, and the like should do something similar

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  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    When I last played I think it was 3rd edition?

    I ran an ork mob that included a looted basikisk... Huge template with 12" scatter..

    Win or lose, the matches were always entertaining.

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  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Yea, I know they were an extra fiddly bit and keep hearing people say they slowed down games and were constant arguments about what's under the template and what isn't but...

    I always loved templates, never had a problem with them, and it just felt good to maneuver the flamer guy to lay down the perfect teardrop or watch a bunch of template shots scatter around - especially if it's "danger close" to your own models!

    WRT 8th edition wishliting though, I think the change to how armor works lead to horde dominance much more than template weapons. I agree they should all add a d6 per 5 models in the unit or something, but I think a bigger deal is that before damn near every weapon had AP5 or better and completely ignored a guardsman's save; now hardly anything does, and before 2+ armor models only had to worry about AP1 and AP2 weapons (today's equivalent is -4 and -3 weapons, respectively) they now are completely wrecked by heavy bolters, as going from a 2+ to a 3+ is a huge mathematical disadvantage. The humble -1 armor modifier halves their staying power.

    I mean, the best unit profile in the game right now is probably 5+ invuln, 5+ FNP that many Nurgle models get. Nothing stops it from working, solid saves against everything, gives a chance against mortal wounds.

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Played 2 big games on a nice table/ terrain over the weekend.

    I just got and 90% built my Great Unclean and some Demons to go with my Deathguard.

    My list 2k with 6cp:
    Deathguard battalion-
    1Lord of Contagion
    1Malignant Plaguecaster
    1 Foul Blight Spawn
    1 Biologicus Putrifier
    1 Noxious Blightbringer (He was excessive, I "forgot" that he doesn't buff Plaguebearers, in hindsight, I should have taken either a Plague Herald, a Scrivener, or a Sloppity Bilepiper)
    4 squads of Plague Marines, 2 with twin Blaunchers and Plasma fist sarges, and the other 2 have twin flamers and meltas
    2 Rhinos with 2 combibolters and Havoc launchers (The Rhino with the melta squad had a Combimelta)
    2 Plagueburst Crawlers
    Nurgle Demon patrol-
    1 GUO with Bilesword and Skullflail
    2 Plaguebearers

    He had a Blood Angels list with Dante, Sanguinary Guard, Libby Dred, Libby in Termies armor, Tartaros Termies, 3 squads of Intercessors with 'nade launchers, 2 squads of 5 Scouts with shotguns in 2 Landspeeder Storms... I forget what else.

    Fantastic game, I won 12 to 10 (11?). I won the roll off for deployment type and zone and hunkered down. He deepstruck EVERYTHING that wasn't an Intercessor into my flank but I held on by rolling an absurd number of armor saves and resilience rolls. The GUO lasted till the very end of the game. Between his magic and attacks, units just melt around him. Plaguebearers > Poxwalkers if you aren't taking a Cultist-heavy list. The extra combi bolters and havoc launchers on the Rhinos did WORK. It jumps a Rhino from 72 to 85, but you'd be surprised how much fire they put out, pescially when combined with the fire put out from the squads of Deathguard.



    Khraul
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    How'd the PBCs do?

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  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    The talk about Grey Knight made me remember my brother may have a force of them but I remember his argument about how the Blood Angels got the cool dreadnaughts was finally stopped by the grey knights and their psycannon on a dread.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    FAQ updates for Chaos across the board.

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

    Mostly, no you can't deep strike a Lord of Skulls with the daemon stratagem.

    Also Bel'akor got nerfed. His lack of alliance to anyone means if you use him it removes your loci.

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