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[Infinity] Holy shit it took us seven years to get to 100 pages, but we did it!

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Posts

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I don't see the JSA really getting long range capability, they're supposed to be an assault force lacking heavy weapons and resources! One Sniper Rifle in the whole list!

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    I know but it makes me so sad haha

    We do have a couple missile launchers at least. But it'd be cool to have something that is a bit more dedicated to shooting and being a big stompy armour solider rather than yet another one that is good at swords and not so good at shooting

    the daiyokai fills a really good mid-range niche though, but something that gives up some of the close combat capability for some better shooting options would be nice

    I mean, we're secretly backed by PanO now! Surely they could slip us some advanced weaponry with an onboard targeting system... give it a solid SWC cost and AVA 1

    Anzekay on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Incidentally...

    Imagen28.jpg

    Armor plus tactical poncho is hitting all of the right notes for me.

    SolarExtreaminatus
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Apparently that dude is crazy good, from the hints about their release in the next few months.

    Doesn't surprise me, looks like an infiltrating camo marker Heavy Infantry, which is hot shit!

    Solar on
  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Am I right in thinking that that YJ stuff probably won’t be coming out until next year?

    PSN Fleety2009
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    I figure I should, maybe, probably, actually read the rules for this game to be able to make more informed army choices...

    But there are rules, new rules, N3 human sphere rules? Where to start?

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I figure I should, maybe, probably, actually read the rules for this game to be able to make more informed army choices...

    But there are rules, new rules, N3 human sphere rules? Where to start?

    Start here: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Introduction

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I figure I should, maybe, probably, actually read the rules for this game to be able to make more informed army choices...

    But there are rules, new rules, N3 human sphere rules? Where to start?

    Start here: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Introduction

    I’ve got most of that down. Mostly I want to be able to read unit profiles and understand at all how that unit might perform on the table. Right now I mostly just go “why yes, those ARE numbers and terms.”

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I figure I should, maybe, probably, actually read the rules for this game to be able to make more informed army choices...

    But there are rules, new rules, N3 human sphere rules? Where to start?

    Start here: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Introduction

    I’ve got most of that down. Mostly I want to be able to read unit profiles and understand at all how that unit might perform on the table. Right now I mostly just go “why yes, those ARE numbers and terms.”

    Check out the rest of the wiki, really. Under the basic rules should be parts for all the profiles.

    Then you can start searching weapon names or ability names etc in the wiki to see what they do

    also if you open up unit profiles in the Army app (https://army.infinitythegame.com/) you can click on all weapons and ability names and get linked directly to the wiki

    Anzekay on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Reading stuff like that piecemeal doesn’t really work for me, my brain likes to have the whole system.

    I’m maybe halfway through the 250 page pdf rulebook they have up now and personally that has been far more useful to me understanding the game than reading the little wiki links from the army builder.

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I've never actually read any of the rulebook. I ended up just reading through the major mechanics pages on the wiki and then played some games while looking up skills and weapons.

    Mostly I'm just impressed that there's such a solid wiki for the game!

    Lanlaorn
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Quantronic Dreamgirl Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I figure I should, maybe, probably, actually read the rules for this game to be able to make more informed army choices...

    But there are rules, new rules, N3 human sphere rules? Where to start?

    Start here: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Introduction

    I’ve got most of that down. Mostly I want to be able to read unit profiles and understand at all how that unit might perform on the table. Right now I mostly just go “why yes, those ARE numbers and terms.”

    For stats:

    Move: 4-4 is standard, anything up or down implies slower/faster. The other common line you'll see is 4-2 which is medium infantry.

    CC: Varies a lot. Good CC units come near 20 and have martial arts. It's a silly stat because for all the range it's got it's usually pretty binary whose the best at CC in any given fight (hint, it's the unit that initiated close combat and took the risk to get in knife range).

    BS: 11-12 is average, 10 is terrible, 15 is the highest you'll see on most lists and is exceptional.

    PH: 10-13 is the normal range. HI and TAGs tend to be higher.

    WIP: about the same ranges as BS

    Arm: LI: 1-2 MI: 2-3 HI: 3-6 Tags: Fucking big numbers

    BTS: Varies wildly but usually a multiple of 3. BTS 9 is 'no hacking allowed' levels.

    W: 1 is normal, 2 is HI, 3+ is silly

    Impactful abilities:

    Anything that has a ranged attack modifier such as camo or ODD or MSV which counters that are always helpful in 100% of situations and can be considered a universal good.

    Anything that makes you a specialist is note worthy for objective play.

    Most of the rest are fancy/niche toys or complicated in what value they add.

    InquisitorElldren
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Thanks! Those benchmarks are super useful! Will make me feel a lot less like I am looking at stuff in the background.

    It doesn't help in terms of rules that I really want to use link teams (I am a squad based boy at heart) and then I like to squirrel away into weird shit straight out of the game (You mean Ikari can combine three different units into one link team?! TELL ME MORE)

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Quantronic Dreamgirl Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Thanks! Those benchmarks are super useful! Will make me feel a lot less like I am looking at stuff in the background.

    It doesn't help in terms of rules that I really want to use link teams (I am a squad based boy at heart) and then I like to squirrel away into weird shit straight out of the game (You mean Ikari can combine three different units into one link team?! TELL ME MORE)

    https://twitter.com/MayapodCast Maya Cast do a podcast on sectorials and discuss both the lore and the fireteams. So you can probably find the topic you need there.

  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    (I feel like I just said this - the weird thing about threads that have sporadic activity bursts. :biggrin: )
    Personal Flashpaper is another really good podcast, as their tagline is 'by beginning Infinity player for beginning Infinity players' and one of the things they do is each episode pick a particular rule and fully break down how it works and applies.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Also, in respect of costs

    10pts is cheap, line trooper cost. 20pts is reasonable. 30pts is non-disposable. 40pts is getting expensive. 50+pts is expensive, anything of 70+pts is really expensive and probably defines your list (as it's probably about 25% of your points, standard game being 300pts)

    InquisitorElldren
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    So I just tried this game for the first time, since my buddy got a cheap Ariadna vs Aleph starter and has Icestorm on the way (as well as beyond Icestorm, which is good because I want to play Nomads and that Tunguska heavy infantry is sooooo doooope)

    Very interesting! We have been playing Warmachine for years now, so it's nice to play a game that contrasts in so many ways--low model count, long ranges, interactive turns, tons of 3d terrain, lots of hidden info, less dependent on fiddly model placement, etc.

    We ran through the basic scenarios and I tended to win them based on good dice + prioritizing active turn shooting vs reactive shooting. It seems like getting a 1v1 between evenly balanced units on your turn is hugely advantageous. He took the final scenario game, though, because I threw away my shotgun scout too early and he prioritized damaging my mech so that it wouldn't be oppressively occupying the objective.

    Some questions popped up though:

    -How exactly do AROs interact with active turn actions? It really doesn't seem clear in the book. It seems like
    1) declare your first action, including the details of your movement path, your targets if you're firing, etc., AND you move your dude if it's a movement action
    2) opponent declares any eligible AROs, and also where in your movement that they're firing at you (usually when you'll be out of cover or in a good range band)
    3) you declare your second action, triggering any other, new AROs if new enemy units are eligible
    4) roll off and resolve

    -how does cover interact with movement? Is it true that you can choose to react and fire at any point during enemy movement? If so, how does that interact with cover in terms of e.g. an enemy target coming into LOS roughly in cover? Do you just carefully slide the LOS standy along the movement path and see when they're visible? Definitely fiddly, if so. Also can you move alongside cover and maintain cover at all points?

    -if someone in their active turn tried to spot your camo soldier, can you react with a dodge, losing camo but moving 2"? Do you have to roll, if so, for the dodge?

    Clearly I have to go back and reread the full rules. Seems like a really fun, dynamic game though.

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    ElldrenExtreaminatus
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    edited September 2018
    So I just tried this game for the first time, since my buddy got a cheap Ariadna vs Aleph starter and has Icestorm on the way (as well as beyond Icestorm, which is good because I want to play Nomads and that Tunguska heavy infantry is sooooo doooope)

    Very interesting! We have been playing Warmachine for years now, so it's nice to play a game that contrasts in so many ways--low model count, long ranges, interactive turns, tons of 3d terrain, lots of hidden info, less dependent on fiddly model placement, etc.

    We ran through the basic scenarios and I tended to win them based on good dice + prioritizing active turn shooting vs reactive shooting. It seems like getting a 1v1 between evenly balanced units on your turn is hugely advantageous. He took the final scenario game, though, because I threw away my shotgun scout too early and he prioritized damaging my mech so that it wouldn't be oppressively occupying the objective.

    Some questions popped up though:

    -How exactly do AROs interact with active turn actions? It really doesn't seem clear in the book. It seems like
    1) declare your first action, including the details of your movement path, your targets if you're firing, etc., AND you move your dude if it's a movement action
    2) opponent declares any eligible AROs, and also where in your movement that they're firing at you (usually when you'll be out of cover or in a good range band)
    3) you declare your second action, triggering any other, new AROs if new enemy units are eligible
    4) roll off and resolve

    -how does cover interact with movement? Is it true that you can choose to react and fire at any point during enemy movement? If so, how does that interact with cover in terms of e.g. an enemy target coming into LOS roughly in cover? Do you just carefully slide the LOS standy along the movement path and see when they're visible? Definitely fiddly, if so. Also can you move alongside cover and maintain cover at all points?

    -if someone in their active turn tried to spot your camo soldier, can you react with a dodge, losing camo but moving 2"? Do you have to roll, if so, for the dodge?

    Clearly I have to go back and reread the full rules. Seems like a really fun, dynamic game though.

    Awesome! Also I thought warmahordes had low model counts? Did that change? Be sure to check the wiki which has like, all the rules http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Main_Page

    To answer your questions: yes that’s roughly how AROs work, though some special skills (read: rules specific to certain models) change that like Stealth and Sixth Sense and various markerstates.

    Yes you can fire or act at any point during your movement. In general though if something is “roughly” in cover you should treat it as in cover. If there’s a dispute you can always break out the silhouette stands but like, infinity in general relies more on trust between the two players than very precise fiddly physical movement of pieces on the table. If there’s continuous cover for the movement action you can just say you’re maintaining cover throughout and for the most part a good opponent will accept that (and expect the same sort of sportspersonlike allowances in return, natch)

    As for the last question, that’s straightforwardly yes you can declare a dodge ARO in response to a discover roll and yes you do lose the marker state if you do that and yes you do have to roll which will probably be a face to face roll because your opponent is probably going to shoot you!* As normal if you succeed on the dodge roll you get to make the dodge movement (normally 2” but some skills increase that)

    *Note if your opponent declares a different second short skill that doesn’t affect the camouflaged unit (or doesn’t involve a roll, eg. a direct template weapon) you still have to roll dodge, only it’s a normal roll. And they would still lose the camouflage state.**

    **edit: which means that your opponent wouldn’t actually have to roll to discover because you’ve already revealed the camouflaged model and it would be moot at that point.

    Elldren on
    fuck gendered marketing
    Evil Multifarious
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    WMH has low model counts compared to, say, Warhammer, but it usually ranges from 10 (all expensive heavy warjacks) to 100+ (swarms of infantry). Most armies will be probably closer to 30 or 40. Infinity seems like it would be more 10 to 15?

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    WMH has low model counts compared to, say, Warhammer, but it usually ranges from 10 (all expensive heavy warjacks) to 100+ (swarms of infantry). Most armies will be probably closer to 30 or 40. Infinity seems like it would be more 10 to 15?

    In practice you probably want closer to 20-30 models for flexibility when constructing lists for scenarios.

    But I had no idea that you could have 100+ models in a WMH force. That’s about how many models you typically had in a infantry swarm 40k army the last time I played 40k

    fuck gendered marketing
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Really, 20 to 30? It's 300 points standard, right, and most line infantry are 10ish, so 30 seems like the absolute maximum. I guess the volume of orders is very effective though if you take like 20 or so cheap guys and a few MI or HI.

    Yeah WM you can't quite break 100, I think, but you could trivially do 80 infantry in several factions if you wanted to swarm. It's not very good most of the time because infantry removal is easy these days (including feats that are basically "kill all cheap infantry in this 25" diameter bubble") but still.

    I do like the idea of 20+ guys on the table, though; with an opposed roll system things are very, very swingy at low numbers and a crit can win a game. Having backup plans and dealing with large volumes of reaction fire seems quite different.

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I think he just means you want to own 20-30 models. Infinity lists generally max out at 20 with 15 being the peak of the bell curve.

    Carnarvon
  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    With so few models, each choice can make a big difference. If you're fighting someone with TAGs and you don't have hackers/explosives, you might want to add some... but if you don't have a very similar costing profile, you're wasting points. So you want 20 models or so just to be able to have breathing room in lists.

    Side note: I've managed get the wargaming bug again, and in a fugue-like stupor I bought $100 worth of paint and brushed for my... formidable backlog. I'm actually looking forward to painting, for once? Looking over my models I seem to have lost all the fingers for my (oldschool) Szalamandra Lizard TAG. I rather like the model and don't want to chuck it, is there any way to get replacement finger for it? Or a decent looking substitute/kitbash.

    Carnarvon on
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Quantronic Dreamgirl Registered User regular
    Really, 20 to 30? It's 300 points standard, right, and most line infantry are 10ish, so 30 seems like the absolute maximum. I guess the volume of orders is very effective though if you take like 20 or so cheap guys and a few MI or HI.

    Yeah WM you can't quite break 100, I think, but you could trivially do 80 infantry in several factions if you wanted to swarm. It's not very good most of the time because infantry removal is easy these days (including feats that are basically "kill all cheap infantry in this 25" diameter bubble") but still.

    I do like the idea of 20+ guys on the table, though; with an opposed roll system things are very, very swingy at low numbers and a crit can win a game. Having backup plans and dealing with large volumes of reaction fire seems quite different.

    Crits Happen is a pretty universal mantra of Infinity.

    It's why 2 wound profiles are an immediate jump up in cost. Because they let your rambo get away with that unlucky crit.

    It's also why, in general, most new players are advised not to use TAGs because they'll walk them forwards like they're a tank and not a super mobile gun platform.

    Elldren
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    I bought the JSA sectorial army pack because of the Celty model and I couldn't really resist and Yu Jing and Yu Jing was the only faction I was considering for a second army anyway.

    Does this box come with enough to build a 300 point list or will I need to buy some other stuff?

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I think the best you can get with just the box is like 220-240 or so? That's making everything as expensive as possible.

  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    I think the best you can get with just the box is like 220-240 or so? That's making everything as expensive as possible.

    Any recommendations on what I could grab to round it out?

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    I think the best you can get with just the box is like 220-240 or so? That's making everything as expensive as possible.

    Any recommendations on what I could grab to round it out?

    Domaru, Tanko, Ninja (esp the hacker), the JSA support pack (for doctor and engineer options), or you could branch out into the Aragoto bikers if you think their hyper aggressive playstyle sounds fun!

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Tanko, Domaru and Aragoto are all good

    Remotes are always really useful, they're the Yu Jing ones for JSA

    The support pack will also always do you well!

  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    The Keisotsu Butai box, Domaru, Tanko and the JSA support pack would all make fine additions to the army pack. You could hit 300 with any one of those boxes (perhaps not the Keisotsu one but it would be close).

    PSN Fleety2009
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    So I found all of the stuff everyone has suggested except for Tanko and the Aragoto bikes. Are these listed under Yu Jing?

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    They should be under JSA or maybe under Non-aligned

    Tanko and Aragoto

    PSN Fleety2009
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