Oh Lordy!,Creationism

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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Okay we are done talking to that guy since his posts were made irrelevant before he even posted them by the OP anyway.

    Also /hi5 to the other quite religious people out there who recognize earth and life sciences as real.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    ArbitraryDescriptorRMS OceanicJaysonFourGonmunbowenElvenshaeTofystedethBouwsTNightslyrdispatch.oCambiataspool32Blameless Clericamateurhour
  • GarickGarick Registered User regular
    OK... first point here is I'm not a creationist, and didn't even speak of the subject matter. The only thing I stated was that this forum is mostly populated by atheists, and that is 100% true, even though there are of course some religious people on the forum.

    Second, is the advice given here is going to polarize, by the OP's own statement, against his wife. This is dangerous territory to be stepping into, as it can take his position with a little give, to one without any, causing untold family trauma.

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Garick wrote: »
    OK... first point here is I'm not a creationist, and didn't even speak of the subject matter. The only thing I stated was that this forum is mostly populated by atheists, and that is 100% true, even though there are of course some religious people on the forum.

    Second, is the advice given here is going to polarize, by the OP's own statement, against his wife. This is dangerous territory to be stepping into, as it can take his position with a little give, to one without any, causing untold family trauma.

    I think that 1) you have no idea what the forum composition is or even the composition of people who posted advice in this thread and 2) this thread has seen some pretty moderate advice, and none of the advice at all was against the OP's wife, but rather against the school. But either way 3) this STILL isn't a debate forum and it isn't your job to chase people off in the manner you've attempted from asking for advice here.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Geth, kick @Garick from the thread

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • GethGeth Legion Perseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
    Affirmative ceres. @Garick banned from this thread.

  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    If you are worried about withdrawing your kid because the school has a good performance, statistical analysis shows that it isn't due to the school. Private schools have higher performance because they can tell kids to piss off if they don't want them there. And on the whole this doesn't necessarily mean that there are better teachers at a private school. all It means that it is easier to be at the front of a classroom, you still need to engage your kids.

    The biggest influencer for a student is their home life, as long as you value education and support them in their learning your kid will succeed. The location of where your kid (barring the occasional student) doesn't hugely impact their learning.

    bowenCelestialBadgerkimeNightslyrdispatch.ochrishallett83
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    There are plenty of fantastic private schools that give a quality education, but they do tend to be more expensive than religious schools, because religious sects subsidize them. This is to win souls; not many people convert to a religion in adulthood if they have no exposure in childhood. If you are of the sect that the school preaches, this is all well and good. For instance, the school in question would be a fantastic alternative to homeschooling for a strictly fundamentalist family - a good quality of secular education without challenging their fundamentalist religious views. But for a moderate Christian, it is a poor choice.

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    As a person who attended catholic private schools as well as public ones, I think I was raised with a general set of religious morals while at the same time never thinking that the way i lived my life had to follow those exact same opinions, nor did i expect other people to conform to those rules.

    The key here is that you are raising your child, not the school. Anyone who actually reads the bibles old and new testimate if they actually *think* about it will see a massive shift from 'heres the mile long list of rules you have to follow' to 'do onto others as you would want done onto you. Jesus himself said the greatest commandments are love thy neighbor and love thy god. Which means these two superseed everything else previously written. It bothers me that the Catholic church is so focused on the old testiment and ignores what i feel is the most important lesson of the new.

    I'm not a very religious man. I've got a strong belief in God, but much less faith that the Church itself is doing what I think it is suppose to be doing. The heavy denoucing of homosexuality is stupid. you don't see them preaching with the same fever "Don't have sex with animals" which is in the same frigging chapter. MANY religions have rules against homosexuality, but the difference is how people respond to it.

    Your child will be introduced to some things you may not agree with. If you want to keep him in the school, then simply try your best to have him think for himself about the things he is being taught. Ask him what he would do if a friend of his revealed he was gay? Teach him that its none of his business what his friend does and that to treat him differently for it is wrong.

    The school does not 'win' this kind of battle unless you don't fight at all and let them do everything.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    The school might win if one parent is for it and the other is against it.

    This is a whole family discussion that needs to happen. I'd argue that the school is still bad to keep throwing money at because of everything else outside of creationism they're also doing badly... and giving them money to keep doing it feels morally wrong.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    MayabirdCambiatachrishallett83
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    There's plenty of advice about the school but I thought I'd mention my own experience to try and give you an idea of what's likely being taught. It was mentioned earlier that it can be upsetting and depressing if one's views don't line up with with YEC types and it was certainly what I went through. I lived with YEC family and went to their church while with them. The stuff I was taught conflicted significantly with reality. Homosexuality wasn't just wrong, it was a "choice" that could be reversed and needed to be. Men and women had predefined roles that, if deviated from, meant we were going against God's will. Anything that wasn't part of the local community was likely sinful. Yoga was considered a tool of the devil.

    I was fortunate enough that I didn't go through this until I was eighteen but for the year that I did I was utterly miserable and hated waking up every day. I eventually had the means to leave and did so with almost no warning. Something that wasn't uncommon among my peers since any attempt to leave was strongly discouraged.

    YECs simply don't limit their beliefs to just some shoddy geology and biology. It's a group that in my personal experience teaches some massively toxic, abusive views that are harmful to both the people they teach and others they interact with.

    There's already plenty of advice on alternatives for your kids. I'll only add that you seem like a pretty great dad and, so long as they're attending the school, be as involved as you can with their school work and knowing what their teachers are telling them. The school is teaching way more than just test prep and it'd suck for your kids to have to go through the same stuff I and others have with no one to help them.

    bowenceresFrytinwhiskersTofystedethNightslyrdispatch.ospool32CambiataJaysonFourEclecticGroovechrishallett83Arch
  • RiboflavinRiboflavin Registered User regular
    I'm not taking them out of school. I have thought about it and considered it.

    My original post was supposed to be the best way to talk to them about it, I guess i went off the rails. I was hoping for something along the lines of"here's some great information on arguing against creationism by such and such a person."

    What I have gotten out of this thread:

    1) It's more than just creationism. Agreed. I am going to make more of an effort to be aware of everything that is being taught. I want my children to think critically and come to there own conclusions. I will tell them what I think and what the school thinks and encourage them to do their own research. Hopefully they will grow up with some logical/loving beliefs. I am sure their beliefs will change as they grow as mine did.

    2) My wife and I are not on the same page. Agreed. She and I agree on Creationism. She will not contemplate a public school and the other private schools in the area are very religious as well. I think currently, weighed on a scale, taking them out is a bit drastic. I understand many of you disagree.

    I am probably done with the thread as I feel a bit attacked whether I'm overly sensitive or its justified I don't know. Also, I think I have gotten everything I could have gotten out of it and more would be rehash.

    Thanks for your input.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Riboflavin wrote: »
    I am probably done with the thread as I feel a bit attacked whether I'm overly sensitive or its justified I don't know

    If I came across as hostile, to you, it was not my intent. And I probably did! So as one who has been attacked, rather blatantly, for this very thing, I sincerely apologize.

    Do your best, good luck.

    CambiataQuid
  • doomybeardoomybear Hi People Registered User regular
    Well, if you're looking for resources to debunk Creationism, the internet has tons of them. A quick google search led me to talkorigins.org, which seems to have a comprehensive review of the evolution vs. creationism debate. Understand that Creationists won't just use one argument to try and make their case - once one of their arguments falls to reason or evidence, they just fall back on another one.

    what a happy day it is
    Julius
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    If you are still reading this thread: Any chance your wife would consider a Catholic school? I only went to one for a year, and I found several things that may be comforting to a religious person looking for a Christian religious school:

    1) Several of my fellow students were not Catholics.
    2) Creationism wasn't taught, the basic sciences were respected.
    3) There was a religion class, I think, and we were required to go to church as a school once per week, but other than that there was no attempt to "win people over" to Catholicism.

    So, you might see if your wife would take a Catholic school as a compromise.

    Cambiata on
    CelestialBadgerbowendoomybearDarkPrimusKetarElvenshaeMayabird
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I don't think you need infallible arguments to convince your kids. Just keep talking to them about it and encouraging them to discuss anything with you that they study that sounds like bullshit to them. It could make some lively dinner conversation!

    Cambiatabowen
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Catholic or Jewish run schools tend to be amazing, if you're still looking for that "have a slightly higher ACT score that's often just because of how statistics can be fudged" type thing.

    Plus catholic and jewish people understand science's role and often accept that creationism is garbage and evolution is a thing. Not always but the schools do tend to lean that way most of the time.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    Cambiatatynicdispatch.oDarkPrimusElvenshaeSkeithMayabird
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Out of curiosity, because I don't really know but it seems like a good idea... could you do a follow-day or something where you just attend a day of classes as observers to see what they're learning or how they're being taught?

    SmrtnikCelestialBadger
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Good luck, OP.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    CambiataQuidSmrtnikBouwsT
This discussion has been closed.