Heartharena has him at the top of their "Below Average" tier. There are two tiers under that. How is that possible?
Is it just that, on average, arena decks have fewer spells, so over a large sample size you get enough value from playing a 3 mana 4/4 that it outweighs the times you get completely screwed by it?
Like, how does it beat out Deathwing 2.0, which is, at worst, a 10 mana 12/12?
Whatever they're smoking over there at Heartharena, I want some of it.
If the game is decided before turn 10 then a non-taunt 12/12 isn't helpful at all. There are lots of games where you can't play a 12/12 because
1) you need to play multiple things to answer multiple other things
2) you needs taunts or removal to not die in 1-2 turns
3) opponent kept initiative and so is at 20+ health and you don't have a board
If you can get it out, not die and get value then it's great, but if you can do that outside of a topdeck race you were likely winning to begin with
Heartharena has him at the top of their "Below Average" tier. There are two tiers under that. How is that possible?
Is it just that, on average, arena decks have fewer spells, so over a large sample size you get enough value from playing a 3 mana 4/4 that it outweighs the times you get completely screwed by it?
Like, how does it beat out Deathwing 2.0, which is, at worst, a 10 mana 12/12?
Whatever they're smoking over there at Heartharena, I want some of it.
If the game is decided before turn 10 then a non-taunt 12/12 isn't helpful at all. There are lots of games where you can't play a 12/12 because
1) you need to play multiple things to answer multiple other things
2) you needs taunts or removal to not die in 1-2 turns
3) opponent kept initiative and so is at 20+ health and you don't have a board
If you can get it out, not die and get value then it's great, but if you can do that outside of a topdeck race you were likely winning to begin with
I'm in no way arguing that Deathwing 2.0 is a good card. Actually there isn't anything in this post that I disagree with! I'm just comparing it to Millhouse, which goes beyond "not helpful" into "actively hurtful" or even "game-losing".
Which isn't to say that a card should be judged solely on its worst case scenario, but in Millhouse's case, it seems like "worst case" includes a whole lot of situations.
This speculation is making me miss WoW a lot. I haven't played since pre-Pandaria, other than a trial week here and there, and even then, not for a few years.
I was thinking a can't be targeted by spells or hero powers taunt minion that has battlecry: gain +2 health for every spell your opponent cast last turn. Or something like that.
Play millhouse. Your opulent goes crazy with spells. You then plop down a cool minion. I like the reverse yogg idea better tho.
If there was something like that, where there was a recognisable play where you do millhouse first, if opponents had that on their mind then you might even be able to get away with playing milk house with no followup. As your opponent might hold off on going hog wild with spells because they expect the follow up.
7-3 overall with Big Druid to push me one star away from rank 6. In my losses my opponent has gotten really lucky with either topdecks or early aggro. Even then, I almost fought back and won.
So yeah, this deck is solid even without Kun. Thanks for sharing it!
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Sigh. What in the hell. C'Thun is my entire life in a way that post-nerf Yogg could not be
Cthun is one of the least problematic cards Blizzard has ever made. It’s strong but I’ve never felt oppressed by it. And it’s all but disappeared from the metagame since Ungoro.
Sigh. What in the hell. C'Thun is my entire life in a way that post-nerf Yogg could not be
Cthun is one of the least problematic cards Blizzard has ever made. It’s strong but I’ve never felt oppressed by it. And it’s all but disappeared from the metagame since Ungoro.
i don't expect that they'll ever add another class
Year of the Mammoth: Everyone turns into Death Knights
Year of the Dragon: Everyone turns into Monks
Year of the Chimera: Everyone turns into Demon Hunters
I honestly wouldn't complain about a universal creature type update where everything got updated to have a type
It lets you print one-off cards in the future like "All worgen you have get +1/+1" without having to include a bunch of new worgen for the tribal mechanic
+10
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
That would still be a lot of text clutter for meaningless information. I actually agree with Blizzard here, that would be more confusing than cool.
And the beauty of digital cards games is that they can just add the worgen tag when they want to print that one-off card, like they did for mechs.
Dragon had a typeline in classic despite there being zero dragon tribal cards. Why? Because dragons are cool. Giving them a typeline makes them cooler and encourages players to use them! Across all card games, a consistent theme is that tribal decks are popular, even when there is no tribal payoff. And the funny thing is that players are stupid and don't realize how much fun they'll have with a tribal deck unless you point out and shout at them "THESE ARE OF THE SAME CREATURE TYPE"
So in a purely clinical sense, yes, the information has no gameplay application. But it actually adds a lot of fun to the game for a number of players, in a form of deckbuilding expression that Hearthstone is actually kind of short in.
As far as text clutter goes, quite frankly Blizzard's stance on how much text is on a card is bad and dumb anyway. There's a whole bunch of cards that you cannot know what they do until you actually play them. They should be re-evaluating how they handle text on cards anyway. (Also, even cards without a creature type leave the type space bare)
Dragon had a typeline in classic despite there being zero dragon tribal cards. Why? Because dragons are cool. Giving them a typeline makes them cooler and encourages players to use them! Across all card games, a consistent theme is that tribal decks are popular, even when there is no tribal payoff. And the funny thing is that players are stupid and don't realize how much fun they'll have with a tribal deck unless you point out and shout at them "THESE ARE OF THE SAME CREATURE TYPE"
So in a purely clinical sense, yes, the information has no gameplay application. But it actually adds a lot of fun to the game for a number of players, in a form of deckbuilding expression that Hearthstone is actually kind of short in.
As far as text clutter goes, quite frankly Blizzard's stance on how much text is on a card is bad and dumb anyway. There's a whole bunch of cards that you cannot know what they do until you actually play them. They should be re-evaluating how they handle text on cards anyway. (Also, even cards without a creature type leave the type space bare)
Ehh. I dunno. Who played dragon tribal in classic, other than maybe Kibler? And he was doing it out of MTG nostalgia.
In particular, MTG creature types actually have thematic flavour. Even aside from tribal mechanics, elves are green and they're generally small dudes who make mana, dragons are red and flying and have various direct-damage/damage-boosting abilities, trolls regenerate, vampires get bigger the more damage they deal/creatures they kill.
In classic, Faerie Dragon was a random 3/2, Azure Drake gave you spellpower and drew a card, Twilight Drake gained health if you had cards, Ysera, Alexstrasza, Nozdormu, Malygos, Onyxia, and Deathwing were just big fatties that did random shit. I dunno if people actually did have fun putting them together in a deck, so much as you just wanted to play Faerie Dragon and Azure Drake as core cards in classic decks anyways, and the legendary dragons were some of the only big finishers in those days. Shit, I mean, their flavour texts/card names didn't even link together thematically, like MTG tribals usually do.
The people who played dragon tribal are not players who stream video games. They're not even players that post on the internet in threads like this. They're the mythical casual that Blizzard chronically underserves.
+3
Tommy2Handswhat is this where am iRegistered Userregular
edited October 2017
i...i tried playing dragon tribal in classic hearthstone...
(it actually wasn't terrible. it was basically warlock midrange that happened to have a lot of dragons)
Tommy2Hands on
0
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
It's just a trade-off. I agree that tribals are fun and cool for some players and more text is definitely confusing for some players (especially if it's useless text like dragon tribal in classic or worgen tribal now: "why should I play these cards together, what is their theme apart from name/art?").
As an aside, iirc dragon tribal had meaning in the alpha and the tag was just left in when the other stuff got removed.
And like I said a couple of posts up, I agree with Blizzard on that it would be worse for more players and better for less. Arguing that it's fun doesn't change my mind, because I realize that. But the same kind of fun can be had other ways (just make a deck with only beards or whatever like we did in the old days).
Been messing with malygos rogue.
Havent gotten the meatwagon/cold blood combo to pull maly, but its so much fun.
Still tuning the deck. Funny thing is they are so scared of maly that they either smash up their board ot waste removal. And then lich king and miracle turns finish them off.
I've been slowly rolling with Warlock and hit rank 13 or so. I don't know whether to continue to push for 12-11 or just work on quests to make room for others so I can save for the next expansion.
Posts
PSN: Threeve703
If the game is decided before turn 10 then a non-taunt 12/12 isn't helpful at all. There are lots of games where you can't play a 12/12 because
1) you need to play multiple things to answer multiple other things
2) you needs taunts or removal to not die in 1-2 turns
3) opponent kept initiative and so is at 20+ health and you don't have a board
If you can get it out, not die and get value then it's great, but if you can do that outside of a topdeck race you were likely winning to begin with
see that's why shadowverse is better, they have a 10 mana 13/13
PLEASE god we don't need more pirates
not again
i'm getting traumatic flashbacks to msog y'alls
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
They've done zombies, magic, jungle, and frozen wastes themes - what's left besides pirates and alien invasions?
No, but there will be a 2 mana 3/2 Warrior weapon.
More dranei?
Tauren?
Pandaria?
Ed: wtb baby pandas
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
PSN: Threeve703
I'm in no way arguing that Deathwing 2.0 is a good card. Actually there isn't anything in this post that I disagree with! I'm just comparing it to Millhouse, which goes beyond "not helpful" into "actively hurtful" or even "game-losing".
Which isn't to say that a card should be judged solely on its worst case scenario, but in Millhouse's case, it seems like "worst case" includes a whole lot of situations.
A few years back (pre GTG)I made a full HS expansion based around adding Elves as a Tribe. I should review it to see how it holds up now.
Burgly Bully? Coins to feed the Lyra/Anduin machine.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Battlecry: Every spell your opponent casts on their next turn gets re-cast with random targets.
Play millhouse. Your opulent goes crazy with spells. You then plop down a cool minion. I like the reverse yogg idea better tho.
If there was something like that, where there was a recognisable play where you do millhouse first, if opponents had that on their mind then you might even be able to get away with playing milk house with no followup. As your opponent might hold off on going hog wild with spells because they expect the follow up.
So yeah, this deck is solid even without Kun. Thanks for sharing it!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Not too shabby considering I didn't start playing this season until the 22nd and was down at Rank 20 when I did.
Cthun is one of the least problematic cards Blizzard has ever made. It’s strong but I’ve never felt oppressed by it. And it’s all but disappeared from the metagame since Ungoro.
PSN: Threeve703
Yes, yes. This is the Old God Love that I crave
PSN: Threeve703
i don't expect that they'll ever add another class
You're such a troll.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Year of the Mammoth: Everyone turns into Death Knights
Year of the Dragon: Everyone turns into Monks
Year of the Chimera: Everyone turns into Demon Hunters
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It lets you print one-off cards in the future like "All worgen you have get +1/+1" without having to include a bunch of new worgen for the tribal mechanic
And the beauty of digital cards games is that they can just add the worgen tag when they want to print that one-off card, like they did for mechs.
So in a purely clinical sense, yes, the information has no gameplay application. But it actually adds a lot of fun to the game for a number of players, in a form of deckbuilding expression that Hearthstone is actually kind of short in.
As far as text clutter goes, quite frankly Blizzard's stance on how much text is on a card is bad and dumb anyway. There's a whole bunch of cards that you cannot know what they do until you actually play them. They should be re-evaluating how they handle text on cards anyway. (Also, even cards without a creature type leave the type space bare)
Ehh. I dunno. Who played dragon tribal in classic, other than maybe Kibler? And he was doing it out of MTG nostalgia.
In particular, MTG creature types actually have thematic flavour. Even aside from tribal mechanics, elves are green and they're generally small dudes who make mana, dragons are red and flying and have various direct-damage/damage-boosting abilities, trolls regenerate, vampires get bigger the more damage they deal/creatures they kill.
In classic, Faerie Dragon was a random 3/2, Azure Drake gave you spellpower and drew a card, Twilight Drake gained health if you had cards, Ysera, Alexstrasza, Nozdormu, Malygos, Onyxia, and Deathwing were just big fatties that did random shit. I dunno if people actually did have fun putting them together in a deck, so much as you just wanted to play Faerie Dragon and Azure Drake as core cards in classic decks anyways, and the legendary dragons were some of the only big finishers in those days. Shit, I mean, their flavour texts/card names didn't even link together thematically, like MTG tribals usually do.
(it actually wasn't terrible. it was basically warlock midrange that happened to have a lot of dragons)
As an aside, iirc dragon tribal had meaning in the alpha and the tag was just left in when the other stuff got removed.
And like I said a couple of posts up, I agree with Blizzard on that it would be worse for more players and better for less. Arguing that it's fun doesn't change my mind, because I realize that. But the same kind of fun can be had other ways (just make a deck with only beards or whatever like we did in the old days).
Havent gotten the meatwagon/cold blood combo to pull maly, but its so much fun.
Still tuning the deck. Funny thing is they are so scared of maly that they either smash up their board ot waste removal. And then lich king and miracle turns finish them off.
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