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[Heroes of the Storm 2.0] DOUBLE DRAGON HYPE

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Posts

  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Jookie wrote: »
    Rexxar is a pain in the ass to solo lane against because he's...not solo. Unless you can ignore Misha and just kill him you won't have a very fun time. He's really obnoxious on Braxxis because he gets to take command over a solo lane as well as have a control point to fight over.

    Does Misha capture points?

    Edit: Double post.

    Zombie Hero on
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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Jookie wrote: »
    Rexxar is a pain in the ass to solo lane against because he's...not solo. Unless you can ignore Misha and just kill him you won't have a very fun time. He's really obnoxious on Braxxis because he gets to take command over a solo lane as well as have a control point to fight over.

    Does Misha capture points?

    Yes, it's a great way to use her.

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  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    Jookie wrote: »
    Rexxar is a pain in the ass to solo lane against because he's...not solo. Unless you can ignore Misha and just kill him you won't have a very fun time. He's really obnoxious on Braxxis because he gets to take command over a solo lane as well as have a control point to fight over.

    Does Misha capture points?

    Yes, yes she does. Because you're playing Misha. A good question is whether Rexxar counts for capturing points. He does but the answer should probably be no :snap:

    That being said, I love Matt Mercer as a voice actor so I can't give Rexxar too much crap. I seriously loved me some Rexxar and still do from time to time. Misha can hold points and pick up orbs for you safely. I feel the Fire Bear could come a bit sooner, though, and the damage feels worse than most tanks for awhile? Maybe that's just me. The peeling potential is insane, though.

    ... then Tracer came out and she just zipped right past Misha and put Rexxar into ground T_T. That's about when I stopped playing him/her super hard.

    The Escape Goat
  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Double post mistake

    Nyht on
  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Triple because I'm like that

    Nyht on
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    omg there's a big obnoxious sticky at the top of every page. Read it people! :P

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    MNC DoverMMMigDibbyThe Escape GoatInquisitor77
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Misha is a hero exactly as much as any other. Literally anything Rexxar can do, Misha can do. Except channeling like, the Dragon Knight.

    She can tap wells though!

  • JookieJookie Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Misha is a second hero controlled by the person playing Rexxar. Anything that works for or against heroes works with her (manticore bonus damage, etc). The only thing I think she's excluded from is tapping well. Apparently she even does that.

    Edit - well then I'm wrong

    Jookie on
    butts
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    Nyht wrote: »
    Jookie wrote: »
    Rexxar is a pain in the ass to solo lane against because he's...not solo. Unless you can ignore Misha and just kill him you won't have a very fun time. He's really obnoxious on Braxxis because he gets to take command over a solo lane as well as have a control point to fight over.

    Does Misha capture points?

    Yes, yes she does. Because you're playing Misha. A good question is whether Rexxar counts for capturing points. He does but the answer should probably be no :snap:

    That being said, I love Matt Mercer as a voice actor so I can't give Rexxar too much crap. I seriously loved me some Rexxar and still do from time to time. Misha can hold points and pick up orbs for you safely. I feel the Fire Bear could come a bit sooner, though, and the damage feels worse than most tanks for awhile? Maybe that's just me. The peeling potential is insane, though.

    ... then Tracer came out and she just zipped right past Misha and put Rexxar into ground T_T. That's about when I stopped playing him/her super hard.

    I did get roflstomped by a Genji in one of my games. I am not a fan of mobility creep.

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    Nyht
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    i've added "mentions anything about statistics on the scoreboard" to my list of things that get an automatic mute

  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Ground out the rest of that Kel'Thuzad event quest thing last night. Super easy to do on beginner AI (also kind of fun just getting take down after take down on the clueless AI).

    Also Dread Lord Jaina costume is confirmed the best. For some reason it never occurred to me she'd have custom voice clips. I love they very mocking tone version of "I hate resorting to violence"

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    So It Goes
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular

    Does Misha stick around once Rexxar is inside the Dragon Knight or that Hanamura bot?

    I really hope Rex and Mish can both pilot that new map mecha together.


    Also huge missed opportunity in one of the ults being Rexxar gets on Misha and they become an unstoppable force of BUDY POWER DEATH MACHINE!!!!

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Misha is a hero exactly as much as any other. Literally anything Rexxar can do, Misha can do. Except channeling like, the Dragon Knight.

    She can tap wells though!

    I think all the objective channels she can't do, IE Cursed Hollow, ToD, Warhead, and the tokens from Hanamura's merc camps. I think she can pick up spider butts and coins, they just get transferred to Rexxar who can turn them in.

    Also worth noting you can direct Misha to move and attack while channeling, but using any abilities will break the channel.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    Bear Cavalry would be a fun ult for Rexxar, but it might be too samey to Lost Viking's longboat.

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  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Jookie wrote: »
    Rexxar is a pain in the ass to solo lane against because he's...not solo. Unless you can ignore Misha and just kill him you won't have a very fun time. He's really obnoxious on Braxxis because he gets to take command over a solo lane as well as have a control point to fight over.

    Does Misha capture points?

    Misha is a hero for all intents and purposes except she can't channel. She can even tap the well for Rexxar while he heads to a new destnation.

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    All the double post are mine.

    ArcticLancer on
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    STOP DOUBLE POSTING YOU NERDS.

    kimeDibby
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Okay so a while back we were talking about Haunted Mines? And some people said "you can literally ignore objective all game and just grab camps and push" and at the time I was like "i mean for the first one maybe......"

    DKg_DmzVoAAdmSN.jpg

    NO, SORRY, I WAS WRONG, THAT MAP IS FUCKING BROKEN AND DUMB

    See the skull counter? That was for the very first Golem. It never completed. I took Merc Lord (HIGHLY underrated talent for Sonya btw) and just grabbed every single camp all the time. Fun fact: Merc Lord damage aura works with Sapper Explosions. Ever seen one Sapper chunk a Tower/Fort for 80-90% of its health? ONE SAPPER. Yeah.

    Like we just, pushed lanes. Ignored objective. Got a level advantage, took fights super easily. Put the onus of completing the objective on the enemy team. Made it so they could never actually go down into Mines and finish the Boss cause if they did, we would just push out instead.

    Haunted Mines is kinda dumb if your whole team is on the same page about that. Doesn't usually happen in pubs though, but damn.

    also Sonya is OP

    but pls no nerferino

    DKg_DmwUMAAEHY5.jpg

    like shit y'all i didn't even get MVP but erryone knew what was up anyway

    DNiDlnb.png
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    kimeshrykemilk ducks
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Yeah the underlying math on Haunted Mines is pretty skewed. It's something Blizz has had to deal with since its first iteration. If they make the Golems too strong then the map becomes even more prone to early-game snowballs than Braxis. If they make them too weak then we get what we have now.

    Honestly I'm not sure what the solution would be other than to consider overhauling the underlying design altogether. There's something fundamentally problematic about having both teams essentially remove themselves from the map in order to get the objective.

    So It Goes
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Yeah the underlying math on Haunted Mines is pretty skewed. It's something Blizz has had to deal with since its first iteration. If they make the Golems too strong then the map becomes even more prone to early-game snowballs than Braxis. If they make them too weak then we get what we have now.

    Honestly I'm not sure what the solution would be other than to consider overhauling the underlying design altogether. There's something fundamentally problematic about having both teams essentially remove themselves from the map in order to get the objective.

    It would irritate the hell out of some people but it'd be entertaining if the skull boys or whatever their official name is came out of the mines and just threw down with whoever was nearby, instead of having the gates.

    E: Actually the more I think about it the more entertaining this idea sounds to me. Have them well up out of the entrances near the lanes and just swarm at anything nearby, leaving you to fight over the skulls in each lane and making the push-jockeying the rest of the map encourages buy you space to keep skull boys to yourselves. You could let the golem spawns still work out based on skulls claimed.

    Auralynx on
    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Yeah the underlying math on Haunted Mines is pretty skewed. It's something Blizz has had to deal with since its first iteration. If they make the Golems too strong then the map becomes even more prone to early-game snowballs than Braxis. If they make them too weak then we get what we have now.

    Honestly I'm not sure what the solution would be other than to consider overhauling the underlying design altogether. There's something fundamentally problematic about having both teams essentially remove themselves from the map in order to get the objective.

    A thought I've had rolling around in my head was to just, have the Golems spawn after a set amount of time. However strong they are, after x amount of time passes, boop.

    "x" needs to be long enough for players to actually get in the Mines and get the skulls, but not too long or too short to where people just grab the small camps and ignore the boss entirely. Because that could happen, and probably would happen. Boss would simply take too long and wouldn't be worth it. So then they'd need to make the Boss worth doing, probably by reducing skulls granted off small camps and put more into the Boss itself.

    They also just need to straight up make the Golems more impactful, or, something.

    Man I dunno, there's a lot of moving parts to this issue. I'm not even sure having it be timed would be very good, now that I think on it some more.

    Tough.

    DNiDlnb.png
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    shryke
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Same with the seeds in garden.


    If you leave any seed out the map will just wait for eternity.
    This can be abused in a similar way, albeit the map is a little more balanced.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    When the mines start everyone is full healed and forcibly teleported in with the exits turned off until all the skulls are claimed.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
    MMMigBrodySmrtnik
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    Same with the seeds in garden.


    If you leave any seed out the map will just wait for eternity.
    This can be abused in a similar way, albeit the map is a little more balanced.

    Night ends when the last shambler is killed, not when all the seeds are picked up. I see random stray seeds all the time on the minimap, usually hidden by a wall/scenery that people missed.

    ztrEPtD.gif
    AuralynxshrykeWingedWeasel
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    Same with the seeds in garden.


    If you leave any seed out the map will just wait for eternity.
    This can be abused in a similar way, albeit the map is a little more balanced.

    Night ends when the last shambler is killed, not when all the seeds are picked up. I see random stray seeds all the time on the minimap, usually hidden by a wall/scenery that people missed.

    Huh, I've been reading it wrong then.


    The other objective that can be semi "infinitely" stalled is Braxxis. The counter doesn't start again until all zerg are dead.
    iirc ^^'

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    Same with the seeds in garden.


    If you leave any seed out the map will just wait for eternity.
    This can be abused in a similar way, albeit the map is a little more balanced.

    Night ends when the last shambler is killed, not when all the seeds are picked up. I see random stray seeds all the time on the minimap, usually hidden by a wall/scenery that people missed.

    Huh, I've been reading it wrong then.


    The other objective that can be semi "infinitely" stalled is Braxxis. The counter doesn't start again until all zerg are dead.
    iirc ^^'

    I mean, a lot of the maps can theoretically end without the objective ever happening, if no one team can gain enough of an advantage to get the objective (and not just win).

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Leaving Infernal Shrines at 39 is a real strategy, for example. It takes a tremendous amount of confidence and coordination to go for it, but it can work.

    The Escape Goat on
    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
    Auralynx
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    .
    Leaving Infernal Shrines at 39 is a real strategy, for example. It takes a tremendous amount of confidence and coordination to go for it, but it can work.

    Technically, just about all the objectives can be quasi-infinitely stalled if you just... don't try to complete them.

    ztrEPtD.gif
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    .
    Leaving Infernal Shrines at 39 is a real strategy, for example. It takes a tremendous amount of confidence and coordination to go for it, but it can work.

    Technically, just about all the objectives can be quasi-infinitely stalled if you just... don't try to complete them.

    So play how I normally play? Got it

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Problem with mines is the double whammy of early/midgame uselessness and how incredibly risky taking the objective is. It's both very long, so you're off the map losing value for every second you're in the mines, and very dangerous because the boss is right next to both mid entrances and is exceedingly easy to gank. And your reward for all that crap is an objective that can barely generate any value until 25 minutes.

    If the infernal shrines minions hit you like a boss, taking the first punisher would be super dangerous and much less incentivized too.

    Knight_ on
    aeNqQM9.jpg
    Zombie Hero
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    I think it'd be fun to try a version of Infernal Shrines where the minions are actually an obstacle.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
    Auralynx
  • dav3ybdav3yb Registered User regular
    I should really consider buying one of Garroshs' Mad Axe skins. I like him so much. Had a pretty great game on Shrines with him. Was up against a D.Va that was doing the "run around in pilot mode until i NEED to get back into the mech" thing. She found out that she needs to get back in it as soon I pop out of the fog, because if i hit her with Groundbreaker she was just dead.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    The skull miners themselves hit like a truck early game, too. It forces you to go down as a group to get anything accomplished, but the reward is so meh you are better off expending that effort to get the camps or just push the lane.

    I always circle back to the lost opportunity cost in having teams go completely off the map to finish the objective phase. That's probably the biggest issue overall. You have to make the reward worth the effort without making it OP.

    Also, that map is way too fucking long. Get a team wipe and you can barely capitalize once the first fort is down. There are times you can't even end the game at 25 minutes because you wiped the other team at your core and can't get to theirs fast enough. The distance makes it even more valuable to stay topside and get value on the map while you are there instead of trying to run around to different places.

    AuralynxSo It Goes
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    I know it's an edge case, but when you QM Murky into Mines it's usually best for you to go into the mines solo. You can't do much in lane on two lane maps and he clears the skeletons pretty efficiently.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
    kimeMMMig
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    The issue with HM imo remains what I said the first time:
    the mercs are just way too fucking strong compared to the golems.

    Sappers are STUPIDLY powerful mercenaries. They work on ToD only because on that map fort/keep damage is not permanent and you can push-and-pull with forts fairly easily. On HM, where structure damage is super super important, they fucking snowball hard. They appear early, they are easy to take, they do shitloads of damage and they respawn fast. It's just a terrible fucking idea and they need to be removed from the map imo.

    The other issue is the boss golem I think. He's too hard to take on and too easy to gank so players are rightfully nervous about doing anything about him. Especially when mercs are right there and worth a ton. Going for golem is asking to get your keeps sieged or merced or your own ass ganked.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I know it's an edge case, but when you QM Murky into Mines it's usually best for you to go into the mines solo. You can't do much in lane on two lane maps and he clears the skeletons pretty efficiently.

    I'm hearing "always draft Murky on Haunted Mines"

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  • JookieJookie Registered User regular
    Make mercenaries a thing that can buff your golem?

    butts
  • morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Agree that the Sappers on HM are a huge problem. They're just way too good. I would also replace the Siege Giants with the spear throwing diablo map goatmen.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Jookie wrote: »
    Make mercenaries a thing that can buff your golem?

    Does that help? Mercs are already too strong (relatively) on that map, why make them more useful?

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  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    HM is one of my favorite maps and has been throughout every iteration of it. I have no problem with how the map currently exists.

    For the sake of variety I'd like to see maybe a giant wave of ghosts or something ala March of the murlocs (just interactable) or something like that. The fact that the golem inside and out functions the same as golems on every map is a little strange. I understand they are going for consistency with "if it is a golem, it does X", but change the objective to be not a golem.

    Then again I still feel dragon shire is barely edged out by Blackheart's bay for the title of the worst map, it is tied with towers. Those maps are negative fun, battlefield of eternity is pretty close as well.

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