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Co-existence with [The Orville] is impossible.

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Posts

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Compare TNG "The Outcast".
    What a difference twenty five years makes... or, sometimes, doesn't.

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  • AridholAridhol Registered User regular
    I hated the reality TV thing.
    It seemed like a shit joke that had a big neon sign above it saying "ISN'T THIS FUNNY! BITING SOCIAL COMMENTARY"
    It wasn't anything but lazy and stupid.

    That said, I am going to keep watching the show :)

  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    i know this show is like

    objectively bad

    but im actually really enjoying it? its bizarrely... kind? for a seth macfarlane joint. also i like the 20 year old third officer shes very chipper and i enjoyed her going AIGHT when being told she was ranking officer

    its also taking the side characters feelings weirdly seriously too

    also using a matter thingy to make a pot brownie is a great idea because clearly weed is legal in the sick star trek future

    I said this in SE but it's not worse than S1 of TNG . For one thing yeah it's using it's bridge crew as characters not SFX toys.

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  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    I hated the reality TV thing.
    It seemed like a shit joke that had a big neon sign above it saying "ISN'T THIS FUNNY! BITING SOCIAL COMMENTARY"
    It wasn't anything but lazy and stupid.

    That said, I am going to keep watching the show :)

    I'm in favor of anything that shits on reality tv, especially things in the Real House Wives/Jersey Shore categories, so it got a big thumbs up from me

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  • HandkorHandkor Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    I'm enjoying this show so far, it has a lot of room to grow and seem to be using it for now. They are also quickly doing character growth and development.

    I think right now the show is looking for its identity and where to put the dial for comedy<- - - - - - ->scifi.
    I am impressed that the pot brownie in the second episode did not become the macguffin that would be used to escape. They introduced it very clearly and then realluded to it after being captured but ultimately did the use it to escape.

    Handkor on
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  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    So I've only watched the first episode, but I can tell I'll be alright about the show. From what I've heard from others, it's basically pulling away from a lot of Seth's isms I feared would run rampant.

    I was afraid this was going to be A Million Ways To Die In the West except in space, and thankfully it's not. For one, he clearly REALLY likes Star Trek (was even on Enterprise for an episode... didn't know that), and for two... he's just not allowed to be as vulgar on a public access show. While I tend to like Seth's comedy, him ranting on Westerns for 90 minutes before letting NPH shit in a hat for a minute straight wasn't his best work. I don't know if it was here or somewhere else, but I saw someone summarize The Orville as 'Star Trek meets The Office', and I think that boils it down great. It's clearly designed to be familiar but reminds you of everything missing in similar shows that bugged you, then adds just enough comedy to be satirical instead of meta.

    I also had an issue with him starring in this show, particularly because of his Western... and because he's just not 'Captain' material. I think he does better work writing dialogue and letting others act it out, plus he's just better at playing one dimensional cartoon characters. Somehow Orville makes this work by hooking the fact that the character isn't 'Captain' material either, so it fits. It's brilliant to the point that I'm surprised Seth is self deprecating himself in the show as much as he is. He knows he can't pull off the Captain with gravitas that sucks all the oxygen out of the room, so he made the character exactly the person he could portray.

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  • EriktheVikingGamerEriktheVikingGamer Imperial Magistrate of the Mantis Clan Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Going in to this I was expecting more of the Seth sitcom hit-or-miss laugh track formula but was pleasantly surprised to find an actual show with characters and the odd joke to subvert the tension or the narrative as opposed to the narrative being in service to the next joke.

    Also, that was a particularly horribly constructed sentence but I'm leaving it for posterity. :P

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  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Chief Mixologist of the Shatterdome Tiki Bar Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Finished episode 2 and I'm gonna copypasta what I put about Episode 1 in here for reference:
    I watched the first episode and the description that kept popping into my head is "blue collar Star Trek." Half the characters kinda remind me of some of my coworkers on the boats I've worked on. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as it makes The Orville into a show that could connect with a different segment of the population and feed them Trek style messaging they might not otherwise be exposed to.

    So, onto the second episode:

    I was originally worried that, due to this being a Seth MacFarlane show, that this might end up kinda stupid because his stuff has generally been pretty stupid. Doubly so because the trailers were just honestly awful. The Orville, however, clearly comes from a place of incredible love for Trek. They know their shit and the music, the camera work, the act structure, focus on thinking their way through problems, and the general theme of working together despite disparate backgrounds is all front and center. In episode two they toned back the jokes and the dialogue felt a lot more natural so yay for them. Hell, I even laughed at a couple points out of a general "been there, know that feel" sense. It's worth noting I'm a Merchant Marine engineering officer (think Scotty IRL on boats instead of starships) so even in the pilot some stuff that may have felt weird to regular audiences felt super real to me. That soda thing from episode one? Yeah, that happens on boats. No shit. So yeah, my experience watching this is kinda biased compared to not-sailors watching it.

    The characters felt believable, the story was actually interesting (if nothing new for sci-fi), and the stinger for the episode was legitimately funny. It is a bit weird having current era references get dropped in a future set sci-fi show but it also helps ground it towards general audiences that may not be able to normally connect with high concept sci-fi and to me, that is incredibly valuable. It frames Trek ideals in a way that a regular person can understand and in this day and age that is incredibly important. Trek grognards may grumble about how it's a dumb show but I can absolutely appreciate what they're doing here and I'll definitely keep watching.

    Also: https://www.fxguide.com/featured/orville-a-new-seth-macfarlane-enterprise/

    <3

    EDIT: Rewatching episode two and did they rip some of the sound effects like the general beep boops from Star Trek cause god damn do they sound identical. The
    euthanasia sweep alarm in particular sounds SUPER familiar.

    Random other comment:
    EDIT 2: It's also worth noting that I recently served as a First Engineer onboard my normal ship which is just below the Chief so Kitan's initial "OH GOD I'M IN CHARGE FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-" arc connected so wonderfully accurately.

    Also:

    "Oh, Claire, I have bad news."
    "What is it?"
    "You're the ranking officer which means you have command."
    "Son of a bitch..."

    *dead*

    TOGSolid on
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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Quiotu wrote: »
    So I've only watched the first episode, but I can tell I'll be alright about the show. From what I've heard from others, it's basically pulling away from a lot of Seth's isms I feared would run rampant.

    I was afraid this was going to be A Million Ways To Die In the West except in space, and thankfully it's not. For one, he clearly REALLY likes Star Trek (was even on Enterprise for an episode... didn't know that), and for two... he's just not allowed to be as vulgar on a public access show. While I tend to like Seth's comedy, him ranting on Westerns for 90 minutes before letting NPH shit in a hat for a minute straight wasn't his best work. I don't know if it was here or somewhere else, but I saw someone summarize The Orville as 'Star Trek meets The Office', and I think that boils it down great. It's clearly designed to be familiar but reminds you of everything missing in similar shows that bugged you, then adds just enough comedy to be satirical instead of meta.

    I also had an issue with him starring in this show, particularly because of his Western... and because he's just not 'Captain' material. I think he does better work writing dialogue and letting others act it out, plus he's just better at playing one dimensional cartoon characters. Somehow Orville makes this work by hooking the fact that the character isn't 'Captain' material either, so it fits. It's brilliant to the point that I'm surprised Seth is self deprecating himself in the show as much as he is. He knows he can't pull off the Captain with gravitas that sucks all the oxygen out of the room, so he made the character exactly the person he could portray.

    I'm still a little worried about the Captain Archer effect setting in. Archer was an awful captain, and that's fitting with how he got the job (i.e. a reward for winning a test pilot competition that had killed or injured all the other pilots so Archer won by default even without doing something stupid to actually win) , but then the whole series, everyone treated him like a great leader and diplomat. He discusses peeing on the sacred relics of a proud people, and the worst criticism he gets is that he's being a bit immature. Picard got worse criticism for deciding not to commit genocide.

    But so far, Orville has painted the captain as a mediocre leader at best who definitely got his job because of favors being traded in his interests and not at all on his own merit. We'll see if that holds up. So far he hasn't been in command either time shit hit the fan, it could very easily change once he is.

    Hevach on
  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Chief Mixologist of the Shatterdome Tiki Bar Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Hevach wrote: »
    Quiotu wrote: »
    So I've only watched the first episode, but I can tell I'll be alright about the show. From what I've heard from others, it's basically pulling away from a lot of Seth's isms I feared would run rampant.

    I was afraid this was going to be A Million Ways To Die In the West except in space, and thankfully it's not. For one, he clearly REALLY likes Star Trek (was even on Enterprise for an episode... didn't know that), and for two... he's just not allowed to be as vulgar on a public access show. While I tend to like Seth's comedy, him ranting on Westerns for 90 minutes before letting NPH shit in a hat for a minute straight wasn't his best work. I don't know if it was here or somewhere else, but I saw someone summarize The Orville as 'Star Trek meets The Office', and I think that boils it down great. It's clearly designed to be familiar but reminds you of everything missing in similar shows that bugged you, then adds just enough comedy to be satirical instead of meta.

    I also had an issue with him starring in this show, particularly because of his Western... and because he's just not 'Captain' material. I think he does better work writing dialogue and letting others act it out, plus he's just better at playing one dimensional cartoon characters. Somehow Orville makes this work by hooking the fact that the character isn't 'Captain' material either, so it fits. It's brilliant to the point that I'm surprised Seth is self deprecating himself in the show as much as he is. He knows he can't pull off the Captain with gravitas that sucks all the oxygen out of the room, so he made the character exactly the person he could portray.

    I'm still a little worried about the Captain Archer effect setting in. Archer was an awful captain, and that's fitting with how he got the job (i.e. a reward for winning a test pilot competition that had killed or injured all the other pilots so Archer won by default even without doing something stupid to actually win) , but then the whole series, everyone treated him like a great leader and diplomat. He discusses peeing on the sacred relics of a proud people, and the worst criticism he gets is that he's being a bit immature. Picard got worse criticism for deciding not to commit genocide.

    But so far, Orville has painted the captain as a mediocre leader at best who definitely got his job because of favors being traded in his interests and not at all on his own merit. We'll see if that holds up. So far he hasn't been in command either time shit hit the fan, it could very easily change once he is.

    Yeah, that's one thing I really, really like about the setup. This isn't some super flagship or amazing prototype ship. It's a random ship in The Union's fleet that isn't special in any way at all. We're following some random fuckos on a low tier scout ship. The Orville is the adventures of the Z team. Just some blue collar schmucks on a not important in any way at all ship.

    In all seriousness, I almost feel like watching Lakeboat is a prerequisite to watching The Orville. That link goes to a specific timecode because when I was an Oiler that scene is 100%, no shit, accurate. So much so that to this day at work we still recommend watching it to new engineroom employees. The entire movie is a beautifully accurate representation of what boat life is like though and if you dig on David Mamet it's worth a watch.

    TOGSolid on
  • SorceSorce Registered User regular
    I like that none of the aliens actually understand the current-era references.

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  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Chief Mixologist of the Shatterdome Tiki Bar Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Mild episode two spoiler and only relevant if you're familiar with Deep Space Nine:
    Can we just stop and appreciate how incredibly awesome it is that Kassidy Yates is giving Kitan lessons on Star Trek style command?

    TOGSolid on
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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    I wonder if they'll ever explain why the can never use that hologram technology again.

  • SutibunRiSutibunRi Montreal, Quebec, CanadaRegistered User regular
    I hope they keep using the Hologram tech, and when the admirals find out, they throw a fit about Orville not sending the tech back to HQ right away.

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  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    I'm gonna say it.
    It's a better Star Trek than Voyager and Enterprise. No fucking magic bullshit technobabble to resolve situations because the writers are inept and unable to otherwise conclude the issue they've stupid introduced. No made-up drama that gets ignored before the end of the second act. The character arcs get resolved at the end, and there is character growth.
    Granted, unlike Voyager and Enterprise, it doesn't have past episodes and lore to go off of so it can't contradict them as it sees fit. It doesn't have a Prime Directive that it willy-nilly disregards as the plot needs it to prove a moral point that it can't prove out because of a situation that would have been avoided altogether with a better set of writers or captain in-universe. It doesn't believe in capitol E Evolution as a deity and that the final form for humanity is fucking salamanders.

    I was expecting more of a comedy show than what we got, due to the horrible previews and commercials. But I'm quite happy. I did bust out laughing in the 2nd episode, with the initial communication that is alluded to in the previews/commercials for that episode. I am glad that there are de-tuned Seth MacFarlane-isms. If I wanted more of that, there's three other shows to go watch.

    By the second episode, it's still having problems figuring out where to go between serious drama and comedy, but, as others have said, it's better than the first season of TNG. I'm sure in time it will get its stride and be good.

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Did this get renamed at some point or am I crazy? I thought it was called Hyperdrive or some other sci fi sounding word?

    Oh brilliant
  • Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    Did this get renamed at some point or am I crazy? I thought it was called Hyperdrive or some other sci fi sounding word?

    Hyperdrive was a British sci-fi comedy with Nick Frost, so you might be thinking of that (or if it was called that once upon a time why it was renamed).

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  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    Did this get renamed at some point or am I crazy? I thought it was called Hyperdrive or some other sci fi sounding word?

    Hyperdrive was a British sci-fi comedy with Nick Frost, so you might be thinking of that (or if it was called that once upon a time why it was renamed).

    The premise is also, identical.

    Zilla360
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Was it any good?

  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    Just saw the first two episodes and read some reviews.

    I think people are missing the point. I think they wanted a bit more parody or Family Guy-ish parody?

    Honestly, knowing Seth's background, this seems way more of an homage to Star Trek with a little humor thrown in. It feels like a weird mix of TNG and random family-sitcom with some humor thrown in?

    I love it so far. My wife hates it, but she hates most of his creations (except for Rodger in American Dad, she laughs at anything regarding him and I love her for it so much). I'm hooked.

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  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    From all the reviews, it sounds like the consensus is that the show doesn't come into its own until like episode 3 or 4.

    I like it so far but I don't love it. I'll reevaluate after that 4th episode.

    HappylilElf
  • Blackhawk1313Blackhawk1313 Registered User regular
    I had forgotten about this. I will now rectify this. Opinion pending review.

  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    After seeing the first couple episodes of this I surprised I kind of like it, don't love it, but it appears to be a serviceable background show. That's a lot better than what I was expecting going it.

    The only thing stopping me from really likening it is the already mentioned issue of it not being sure what it wants to be. There's a nice area there for it to be middling serious (but not like grimdark or high drama serious) with some humor that fits that tone, but it wants to go back and forth between slapstick and that level of seriousness.

    Kashaar
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    somebody said Blue Collar Voyager earlier and I can't think of a better description

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  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    After seeing funny shows like Killjoys I can't really enjoy the comedy in a show like this.
    In The Orville and most other comedy shows, jokes are written for the viewer, and characters perform them not naturally but like in a stage or puppet show.
    In contrast, shows like Killjoys are so damn good because these people aren't trying to be funny for us viewers, there making jokes only for each other's benefit. They're lighthearted people who love a fun time, and every joke and punchline supports their characterization and narrative arc - instead of just serving the punchline itself.
    In Killjoys, humor and comedy are character development: even bad jokes say something about the characters, because other characters often acknowledge them as bad. And we've all been there, right? Making a joke that fell a bit flat and sounded better in our heads. Humor in Killjoys gets viewers invested in the characters... Regular comedy like in The Orville distracts from the characters.

    </commute thoughts>

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  • SorceSorce Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    The transgender episode wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Unfortunately I missed a chunk towards the end, but did see the actual end of the episode.
    Basically the entire part with the alien that grew up female. I could watch it, but I was on the phone, so the sound was off.

    In a vacuum, I'd say it was a good episode. We're not in a vacuum though, so maybe that particular ending was not that great. Especially for the baby.

    Sorce on
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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Sorce wrote: »
    The transgender episode wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Unfortunately I missed a chunk towards the end, but did see the actual end of the episode.
    Basically the entire part with the alien that grew up female. I could watch it, but I was on the phone, so the sound was off.

    In a vacuum, I'd say it was a good episode. We're not in a vacuum though, so maybe that particular ending was not that great. Especially for the baby.
    If it helps, the female alien turned out to be the world famous author that Bortas quoted earlier in the episode, who's writing had a profound impact on the entire species.

    Didn't end the way I was expecting them to go, I figured it would be "Here are genetic scans of your planet, turns out there's actually a natural 50/50 split going on here with the sexes that you've been denying for as long as your race is willing to admit". I don't know if that would have been better or worse as an ending, but that was my first thought when the captain called the ship and started asking for sensor sweeps.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    The lack of anything approaching a B plot didn't help in blunting the sledgehammeresque subtlety.

    I kind of thought for a while that the eventual thing they were going for was going to be something like:
    There's basically no difference since they pretty obviously never talked about what THE PROCEDURE was, or it's something entirely superficial, like the males have a cloaca, and the females have a striped cloaca, and it was all a bunch of fuss over absolutely nothing. The author thing was pretty ass-pully, but I think they hit the right tone with the ending they chose. A little surprised they didn't go for a jokey ending, honestly.

    ArcTangent on
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    "As you can plainly see, females are white on the left side."

    (lest anyone try to claim Trek was any more subtle when delivering their moral messages)

    Commander Zoom on
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  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Star Trek was one of the only mainstream shows on TV delivering those kinds of messages. The Orville is not.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    The lack of anything approaching a B plot didn't help in blunting the sledgehammeresque subtlety.

    I kind of thought for a while that the eventual thing they were going for was going to be something like:
    There's basically no difference since they pretty obviously never talked about what THE PROCEDURE was, or it's something entirely superficial, like the males have a cloaca, and the females have a striped cloaca, and it was all a bunch of fuss over absolutely nothing. The author thing was pretty ass-pully, but I think they hit the right tone with the ending they chose. A little surprised they didn't go for a jokey ending, honestly.
    They didn't talk about the procedure, but they did make a few things clear: it was more invasive than a circumcision, the baby had a vagina, and the males had penises. I wondered at something like that a bit, since in the Star Trek episode with the monogender species that oppressed both males and females (the single gender was neither), "correction" was an educational process, not a medical one.


    Honestly, the rest of the crew handled it really badly, except for the Rudolph part. The advocate made a good point about why having Alara punch him through a wall was bullshit. Her strength has nothing to do with her gender, no member of most species could have won that fight regardless of gender, because her species has super strength. It would be like if Picard, upon meeting a race that says males are stupid, sent Data to do math at them. Of course he's smart, he's a supercomputer.

  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    When Enterprise came on Netflix here I decided to do a complete binge. I got about 10 episodes in before I called it quits, even Watching Enterprise in the background of my web-browser wasn't working.

    Orville is way better then Ent. I like Seth way more then Archer and the Aliens are way better the Plox and (most of the time) Tpol.

    The second episode having
    Katan run to Bortus was actually a pretty realistic. I can't think a situation where a junior officer wouldn't run to the nearest senior officer when a purely ceremonial milk run turns into serious shit to "ask for advice".

    Having her freak out publicly was probably not in character, but having her freak out... yeah.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Star Trek was one of the only mainstream shows on TV delivering those kinds of messages. The Orville is not.

    I remember their message being gay men don't exist in the future just lesbians but only under certain excuses.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Yeah, Star Trek actors were open and supportive but definitely not the show runners it indeed most of the writers. At best Trek has had a rather juvenile approach to sex.

    Its like how the show is all rah rah science and exploration are the best, but when it comes to dealing with evolution it breaks out the crayons.

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  • AridholAridhol Registered User regular
    "Hey Doc, I'm not feeling well, I've had the Tits all day" is one of the funniest lines I've heard on TV in a while.
    liked this episode much more than the zoo one.

    Knuckle Dragger
  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    I think one of the things I liked best about this episode was that it wasn't just the gender issue in a vacuum. They also touched on several surrounding issues (two of the big ones being parents' rights and the cultural divide). And while they had no hesitation to point out the flaws in the more baseless beliefs of the other side, they also took the effort to not make them a bunch of mustache-twirling, sociopaths. That went a long way towards making this a topic for discussion, rather than an illustration of bad peoples, with bad beliefs, doing bad things (e.g. Cardassian slavers, Ferengi MRAs, and Hirogen space Nazis and hologram hunters)
    And while the ending was a bit of a gut punch, it highlighted an important point. Just because you think you have an ironclad, foolproof argument, doesn't mean the other party is going to agree, especially where tradition, prejudice or other long-held beliefs are in play. I also think this isn't the last we've seen if this. Unless the Moclan lifespan is a several times longer than a human's, they pretty clearly busted the idea of 1 female every 75 years.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Of course, the absurdist part of this is that the gender which produces eggs is (by any definition) the female. There's not even a 'consistent' genetic way to be female between species on earth, so, the female is assigned to be the gender in a gendered species which genetically could produce fertile eggs. If you lay a fertile egg, then you are a female. I understand why they didn't have the species be all female (because they didn't want to have Ooh, they are all space lesbians! Lets put them in space bikinis) be the storyline, but its still a bit absurd.

    I'd have had them be more like bees (ish). A sort of hive race. Females do exist, but they are very very rare. They produce eggs (complex sex cells) which are then implanted into the males during mating. The eggs which are implanted into the males are all male, and the female eggs (to produce future queens) are much larger and carried and laid by the females. The males then carry the eggs around and can choose to fertilize them with their own simpler sex cells, or with those of another male during mating, and then lay the final egg. The egg producing females could have been like enormous non humanoid things. Intelligent, but rare and genuinely uninterested in anything but producing and implanting eggs. So you have a functioning society that makes sense and where you don't have to worry about everyone insisting the inevitability of sexy space lesbians with only one gender. You can make all the "Hyuk hyuk, society of only dudes!" Jokes you want and it makes a little bit of sense.

    You can also ask questions about Gender in a more interesting and indirect way. Clearly we (as humans) can look at another society which is secretly deleting all of its females and say, "Well, that stupid and evil" but it doesn't address the question in a way you couldn't do just by talking about america today. If you have a society which HAS males (ambulatory bipeds) and females (giant queen bee like things) in its own way, and now we suddenly have the arrival of a third gender which noone asked for or has seen before but is clearly perfectly functional. it just seems like a more interesting (and less A VERY SPECIAL EPISODE!) way of handling questions about gender.

    I don't know, it was a good episode, better than I thought. But I prefer sci fi to ask questions about today using situations which are alien and don't have clear right moral answers. Making people think is far more effective at changing minds than just telling people what to think. I also think it was too soon for a very special episode. I don't know the crew well enough. Episode 2 was very strong, Episode 3 fell flat for me.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I honestly wasn't expecting the ending

    I liked the episode more than I thought I would

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    I think one of the things I liked best about this episode was that it wasn't just the gender issue in a vacuum. They also touched on several surrounding issues (two of the big ones being parents' rights and the cultural divide). And while they had no hesitation to point out the flaws in the more baseless beliefs of the other side, they also took the effort to not make them a bunch of mustache-twirling, sociopaths. That went a long way towards making this a topic for discussion, rather than an illustration of bad peoples, with bad beliefs, doing bad things (e.g. Cardassian slavers, Ferengi MRAs, and Hirogen space Nazis and hologram hunters)
    And while the ending was a bit of a gut punch, it highlighted an important point. Just because you think you have an ironclad, foolproof argument, doesn't mean the other party is going to agree, especially where tradition, prejudice or other long-held beliefs are in play. I also think this isn't the last we've seen if this. Unless the Moclan lifespan is a several times longer than a human's, they pretty clearly busted the idea of 1 female every 75 years.
    It was a gut punch, but like I said in my last post, they did a bad job with their argument. They used a female of a superpowered race to challenge the point on physical weakness, they did an equally poor job on mental weakness by arguing against a general claim with a specific idiot.

    The argument came down to, "This is wrong," "Why?" "Because it's wrong," "I'm not following your argument here," "Because you're wrong and bad." Both sides were talking past each other about their own ethics and without outside viewpoints the Moclans were going to side with theirs.

    Finding the other female, and having her turn out to be a watershed author, was their best argument, and I think it hurt them in the Moclans' eyes, because she proved the girl would live a life of solitude as an outcast, forced to find what happiness she can in some cave somewhere.

    That she was such a cultural touchstone might plant the seed for change in the future, at least. But in the first glance, she was exactly what the Moclan advocate was talking about.

    Hevach on
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    The egg laying and them being male is confusing.

    They should have did something like cellular division.

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