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[Mother!] May I? An open-spoiler thread for talk about the film Mother!
syndalis
Getting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Team regular
Getting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Team regular
Mother! (stylized as mother!) is a 2017 American psychological horror film written and directed by Darren Aronofsky, and stars Jennifer Lawrence, Javier Bardem, Ed Harris, and Michelle Pfeiffer. The plot follows a young woman whose tranquil life with her husband at their country home is disrupted by the arrival of a mysterious couple.
There is nothing I can say that won't be said in the handful of pages I am sure this will generate, but there are no spoiler tags in here, if you haven't seen the film, don't let anyone tell you what it is about, leave this thread, and see the film.
Or don't. there are some very traumatic things in this film visually and aurally that had people leaving the theater in some screenings.
My guess as to who represented what
Javier is Old Testament god
JLaw is the world, Mother Earth, whatever
Ed Harris and Michelle Pfeiffer were Adam and Eve
Their kids were Cain and Abel
The publicist (Wiig) was John the Baptist or possibly St Peter or maybe even Moses. Either way, someone who spread the word of god far and wide.
There were disciples throughout the throngs but nobody i would be willing to put a name to in one viewing
The infant served two roles. Both Christ in his representation of communion and the masses desire to consume him, but also how we pervert and destroy the gifts of life our mother gives us.
I walked out of the theater not liking it too much, but the more I think about it the more it has grown on me, and I think this might be a film that gets harshly panned and turns into a bit of a classic regardless, even if many to most will never want to watch it again.
Discuss.
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People who hate it and love it are comparing it to Solaris so that seems like a good barometer.
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sounds about right
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/mother-darren-aronofskys-thrilling-horrifying-nearly-unbelievable-satire-of-fame
The whole article is an interesting read, and definitely not the first thing I thought of when watching it, but there are layers to this thing
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
One thing i will say is that i had heard before seeing it that Bardem was God. Based on that, it took me about ten minutes to get what the film was doing, and at that point i knew how everything was going to play out. It killed the suspense, but it also let me follow the threads of allegory and play Spot the Bible Dude.
The end was brutal, from appetizer Jesus on down, and even though i knew it was coming, the snap that indicated baby Jesus was dead was pretty nnngggh.
The thesis at the end wad great, too: "You don't love them! You love how much they love you."
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Beside the bible analogy I wonder how much of the mocie is about Aronofsky's personal feelings about being a writer/director/creator.
The Poet only cares about his need to create and be loved for that and he even takes the thing he created in collaboration with the mother and presents it to the world as his own creation without any care of the mother and the child. It paints a pretty bleak picture.
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What I found interesting is the unsympathetic portrayal of the god character.
I wasn't sure what to expect based on Aronofsky past work (Noah in particular), as I had assumed he was a faithful Christian, but God is definitely not portrayed in a flattering light here. I'm wondering what message he was hoping to send to people of faith here? It's not just that god is a fame-hound who outright admits that the love of a single woman/being is not enough to satisfy him, but his followers are unambiguously portrayed as a destructive, self-serving force.
I kinda liked the allegorical juxtaposition of God being the ultimate sellout, since it aligns so well with my own personal worldview, but I'm really curious to know if that imagery would be lost on someone of faith.
Also: I'm glad the wife and I went into this one completely unspoiled. We bought into the advertising that presented this as a bog-standard psychological thriller. I totally would have passed on this had it not been for all the buzz that showed up online for this movie when it came out in theaters. I clued in as to what was really going on at the Cain-and-Abel moment. I looked at my wife after Abel dies and went "this is the fucking bible. He's god!" And my wife gasped and we were totally in at that point.
Obviously the imagery is made explicit at the end, but that was still a fun moment for us.
Everyone has a different moment when it clicks for them, and it is fun actually thinking back on all the clues that exist leading up to that point.
"Man" being ill with God tending to him, a wound near his ribcage, followed by "Woman" arriving the next day.
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He's from a Jewish background which fits pretty well with the old Testament version of God presented in the movie
There are some images that I wasn't clear on though, I was wondering if you guys could help me with that.
What is the significance Man being called a "doctor"?
Why does god treat the Man like an odd stranger, instead of as family, or even a child? Did he not create him?
Why does he claim he "didn't know he had a wife?" Once again, did he not create her, or is he putting on a show for the benefit of Mother?
What is that yellow powder Mother adds to her plaster and drinks? What is the "illness" that she is staving off, her intuition that Man is bad news?
Who does the publisher represent? Moses? John the Baptist?
Is God learning to try things differently with every re-creation of the house, or is he in an endlessly repeating loop? If he isn't learning, then why, does he revel in the destructive cycle? Is Earth doomed to have no agency for all eternity?
I'm sure I have more questions but these are the first that come to mind.
1) I think Man being called a doctor is sort of man being made in God's image as a healer? It's also a prestigious and responsible job to be a doctor. It might be an image put up for Mother Earth? I'm actually unsure of this myself.
2) I think God is putting on a facade for all of them. It's 100% an image that he is portraying to everyone because he wants to love everyone and please everyone, while also (mainly) selfishly appeasing himself. He consistently lies to Mother again and again.
3) Again, I think that it was a show for Mother, just another form of that character showing disrespect to Mother. The bathroom scene followed by the mysterious "everything is okay" morning scene is such a huge disconnect that really makes the viewer think something is up.
4) This was a question that I had too, and I'm still kind of unsure about it. I don't think this has any direct reference from the bible.
5) I think the publisher is definitely Moses, bringing the word of God to the people. There could be an argument for the apostle Peter? Following God's every move until the war happens when she 'denies' God by becoming one of the soldiers. There's a ton of symbolism there up to interpretation.
6) I'd like to think that the poem that God creates is different every time. Like maybe this time, it will illicit a different response that won't get out of hand. However, I also think that the movie is viewed better as a complete circle, and it does illicit the same response every time, but God is doing his best to keep a handle on everything. It's just too much for him. He revels in the feeling of destruction and rebirth because this time... this time for sure, he's gonna do it right. Which is such a relate-able human feeling, like damn I fucked up, this next one will be better.
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Publisher is most certainly John the Baptist, sensationalizing and proselytizing the new book and the arrival of His son. I could also see Peter as an option... but Moses feels wrong to me because this is not about his first book, it is about the new book and the forthcoming child.
Agency is a whole thing in that film. It sure looks like He did not want Mother to do what she did towards the end, nor did He want the crowd to do what THEY did to His child, but one would assume He had the power to stop all of these things if truly wanted.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Relate-able Penny Arcade:
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which is totally fair - Jesus was most definitely a speedrun.
It just seems clear to me that Wiig was playing a new testament prophet / leader.
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If the movie didn't beat us over the head with the religious themes in its last third, one could easily make the argument that the movie also represents an allegory for the loss of agency of rape victims, as well as the intoxicating and destructive dangers of fame.
Let me tell you, as a white male, this movie did a good job of making me empathize with Mother when all the strangers kept showing up at her house uninvited, and the helplessness she felt. Let's not forget, these strangers were invited there by god. God is very much a rapist in this this movie.
I'm not sure I agree with that. In fact, I think it's the opposite. God didn't care whether his "fans" were or were not adhering to his vision; that was besides the point. The point was they they love Him, regardless of his message. Hell, they literally cannibalized his baby and his reaction was basically "oh well, what are you gonna do? At least they still love me, so I forgive them". This was not about his work but about the cult of personality that developed around him. Mother's legit display of pain turned her into a pariah. When she rightfully went apeshit on the cultists for killing her baby, they called her a slut and almost beat her to death for daring to be angry about them killing her child whom they were "mourning" mere moments ago. That shows that Man's display of regret was pure lip service. It's not the product (baby) that's important, it's the appearance of piety. Woe betide you if you try to tear down that facade.