As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[WOW] New Expansion Announced: Battle for Azeroth.

1356799

Posts

  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Blizzard tried "hard content you can q for" in Cataclysm (heroic dungeons were genuinely hard on release) and their forums melted down in tears and a ton of people quit with that as their reason. It's like starting a single player game, get the difficulty choice of casual/easy/normal/hard/insane, choosing insane, then getting very upset when it takes several wipes to get past the first boss (or not at all). But people will q for hardest content available if it gives best reward, even if they actively hate it the whole time they are doing it.

    The solution is "choice". Instead of making Heroic buttfuck difficult, you make Heroic, Heroic+1, Heroic+2 and so on. The same way single player games have had difficulty levels since the 70s.

    Warlock82H3Knuckles
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    People will q for highest + available whether they enjoy it or not.

    steam_sig.png
    H3Knuckles
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    People will q for highest + available whether they enjoy it or not.

    Some might. That's not good enough reason to not include a feature that'll improve the game for many.

    Warlock82H3Knuckles
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    You think it will not it won't. It's not an ilvl thing, but most people are just really bad in group content, and most times fights are difficult because they punish the group for individual mistakes. People whined about heroics being way too easy in Wrath, but 10 wipes in on first boss of Grim Batol because the pug doesn't understand "don't shoot the purple trogg if it's next to boss, it's an instant wipe" and those and people are cancelling subscriptions. And it wasn't even then doing the shooting, but they have no control who got into their q.

    steam_sig.png
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    There's a solution to this situation for when raidfinder is getting used: Add some flags that check for player completion and some automatic filters.

    Practice/Learning
    Clear
    Farm

    Farm isn't accessible unless the person has the clear. The other two are accessible and the usage will depend on community standards (normally what goes in the comment).

    Provide some sort of incentive (current currency, etc.) that encourages players that have cleared and/or overgear the content to help others clear the content for the first time. This turns a new player from a complete liability to something you look forward to in small measures under the right circumstances.

    This allows those who want a fast weekly farm kill to quickly get those groups and for those still working on the fight to find groups that are aimed at their stage in progression. There's always the option to not use any of these flags in the raidfinder as well as ilevel as an additional condition.

    H3KnucklesSmrtnik
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    lololol

    so2TN7V.png

    InvectivusH3Knuckles
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Donnicton wrote: »
    lololol

    so2TN7V.png

    Was this a typo or insightful commentary?

    Edit: Picture wasn't showing when I responded, so I misread Donnicton. Apologies!

    Caedwyr on
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Neither? I'm just literally 5 rep away from exalted after completing today's world quests.

  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    If you buy one of the Krokul troops that gives you 10 rep.

  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    I wish I was that close. I think I'm still honored with them :(

    Switch: 2143-7130-1359 | 3DS: 4983-4927-6699 | Steam: warlock82 | PSN: Warlock2282
    crimsoncoyote
  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    The tokens are 910, but they have the same Titanforging chance as anything. I have a 955 ring from them and some 935 boots.

    Yeah, I got 945 gloves from one. Still getting those tokens because I want my ele leggo gloves, dammit.

    Switch: SW-3245-5421-8042 | 3DS Friend Code: 4854-6465-0299 | PSN: Zaithon
    Steam: pazython
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    3clipse wrote: »
    If you buy one of the Krokul troops that gives you 10 rep.

    Yeah I eventually did that, but I had to wait for some missions to finish because I'm not throwing away one of my bag troops to buy another one just to unlock the opportunity to blow money on some mounts slightly earlier.

    Donnicton on
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    If you buy one of the Krokul troops that gives you 10 rep.

    Yeah I eventually did that, but I had to wait for some missions to finish because I'm not throwing away one of my bag troops to buy another one just to unlock the opportunity to blow money on some mounts slightly earlier.

    Aren't they just tokens you buy? I'm pretty sure you can buy more when you are full on the troops, you just can't consume them

    Switch: 2143-7130-1359 | 3DS: 4983-4927-6699 | Steam: warlock82 | PSN: Warlock2282
    3cl1ps3crimsoncoyote
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    lololol

    so2TN7V.png
    Caedwyr wrote: »

    Was this a typo or an insightful
    Neither? I'm just literally 5 rep away from exalted after completing today's world quests.
    The image wasn't showing when I responded, so it looked like you'd responded to my post with "lololol". The forums aren't helping today.

    Caedwyr on
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    If you buy one of the Krokul troops that gives you 10 rep.

    Yeah I eventually did that, but I had to wait for some missions to finish because I'm not throwing away one of my bag troops to buy another one just to unlock the opportunity to blow money on some mounts slightly earlier.

    Aren't they just tokens you buy? I'm pretty sure you can buy more when you are full on the troops, you just can't consume them

    You can carry a maximum of 5 in your bags as items.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    How much of a pain is it even to go to argus as an 890 or so? I've got a couple alts that would benefit greatly from some veiled argunite drops, but honestly at least on patch day, the health/damage of enemies seemed WAY overtuned for anyone other than a tank.

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I imagine it'll be fine if you take it easy, but I'm also a nearly 940 tank so that whole planet is under my thumb.

    YL9WnCY.png
    SmrtnikDhalphir
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I imagine it'll be fine if you take it easy, but I'm also a nearly 940 tank so that whole planet is under my thumb.

    Yeah I'm pretty much int he same boat; so my personal experience is extremely skewed; my apprehension is entirely due to other people in my guild commenting on how terrible it was.

    crimsoncoyoteDhalphir
  • BullheadBullhead Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    How much of a pain is it even to go to argus as an 890 or so? I've got a couple alts that would benefit greatly from some veiled argunite drops, but honestly at least on patch day, the health/damage of enemies seemed WAY overtuned for anyone other than a tank.

    I've been doing fine (though I can no longer solo elites like I'm used to) as an 892 fury on questing and WQ.

    96058.png?1619393207
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Anyone watch the MDI's this weekend? North america had a couple really interesting match ups in the semis.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    I have issues soloing rares at ~927 in Havoc if I don't have CDs up, but I'd imagine you could do everything else easily enough if you are careful.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Zython wrote: »
    The only time I have gotten angry at a ilvl requirement in group finder was when the title listed a 925 requirement, but the "minimum ilvl" (i.e. the leader's ilvl) was 918. Asking for a high ilvl requirement when you yourself don't meet it is just a dick move.

    Otherwise, there are a variety of groups running content that will be more than happy to take lower geared people.

    Oh, the big trick for successful PuG runs is: "If the ilvl requirement is on the description but not as requirement then fuck you". It doesn't always works, but it makes succesful runs that much more likely.

    And it depends on the expectations. Most DPS players that I know just queue for all M+ on the finder of their level and see if they get lucky. And legendary farm raids are about what warm bodies get first.

    That said, I'm never stepping foot on a "got to level the stone" group again. People do that trick to get the stone that gives the most loot to their guild while leaving the PuGs to dry. Had a guy pulling that on me and yeah, fuck that.

    3cl1ps3
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I have issues soloing rares at ~927 in Havoc if I don't have CDs up, but I'd imagine you could do everything else easily enough if you are careful.

    switch to vengeance and watch as your problems are immediately solved.

    crimsoncoyote
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I just bring the Warframe and solo the rare. Ten minute cooldown is nothing.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I didn't have any trouble on my 910-915 priest (I do run prydaz but still)

    mobs' health does scale according to your ilvl, so your lesser geared alts may have less of a bad time than you think based on health totals you saw on your main

    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Javen wrote: »
    How much of a pain is it even to go to argus as an 890 or so? I've got a couple alts that would benefit greatly from some veiled argunite drops, but honestly at least on patch day, the health/damage of enemies seemed WAY overtuned for anyone other than a tank.

    My 880s spriest was doing the quests just fine, could not solo the rares though. I think they have some scaling mechanic like legion leveling but for ilvl. You can be overgeared, but not under.

    Smrtnik on
    steam_sig.png
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Also if you use World Quest Tracker it will let you search for groups to kill a Rare easily.

    SmrtnikTryCatcherBullheadBucketman
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Also if you use World Quest Tracker it will let you search for groups to kill a Rare easily.

    This too. Target rare (dead or alive), panel pops up asking if you want to search for groups, click it, says 3 groups found, click it, invite pops up.

    steam_sig.png
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    I play pretty casually, have done a few heroics. lots of world quests to get rep for flying. Am 904ish? havoc is okay on Argus. I just finished the storyline last night, waiting for the raid to finish that storyline. I do feel they've made a lot of nice changes in stuff that was previously out of reach for me. I'm still unlikely to look for a mythic group, but that eyeball next to world rares means I get to kill world bosses too even though I don't have a large raiding guild like back in the day. At this point, I'm kind of okay with not doing stuff that doesn't auto-match apart from the rare world quests, which are stupid easy to join, kill, leave.

    As far as story goes:
    So, I feel like the LFR has been setting up the story for the next xpac as legion ends? I don't read about this in the industry rags, so forgive my ignorance. So it seems like Sargaras went evil to fight a bigger bad in the form of the void and whatever gods rule there? So this last raid chain will be kind of finishing off the legion and setting us up to challenge the void?

    I've always liked the void stuff, so that's cool. But it feels like some weird meta-commentary on wow. "No more dissociating with MMO's, time to face ... the void!"

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Anyone watch the MDI's this weekend? North america had a couple really interesting match ups in the semis.

    I'm really disappointed in the region locking, sending two teams from each region to the globals.

    Realistically, if the globals are supposed to be the 8 best teams duking it out, then they should consist of two American teams and 6 European teams, with zero Oceanic teams and especially zero Chinese teams.

    The 3rd and 4th place teams from the European group stage would have won any of the other regions. All eight of the Chinese teams were terrible, while all 8 of the European teams are excellent.

  • crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    I have issues soloing rares at ~927 in Havoc if I don't have CDs up, but I'd imagine you could do everything else easily enough if you are careful.

    switch to vengeance and watch as your problems are immediately solved.

    Yeah, I do that for things that have caused me grief in the past and do a lot of unavoidable damage

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    I used to switch to Havoc to do non-elite WQs, but ever since Spirit Bomb became a thing there's just no point. As Vengeance you do the same damage and don't ever die.

    Dhalphir on
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    This is good information

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Anyone watch the MDI's this weekend? North america had a couple really interesting match ups in the semis.

    I'm really disappointed in the region locking, sending two teams from each region to the globals.

    Realistically, if the globals are supposed to be the 8 best teams duking it out, then they should consist of two American teams and 6 European teams, with zero Oceanic teams and especially zero Chinese teams.

    The 3rd and 4th place teams from the European group stage would have won any of the other regions. All eight of the Chinese teams were terrible, while all 8 of the European teams are excellent.

    There was a feedback thread with a Method guy on Reddit that specifically mentioned that point. The main problem is that, well, all Korea, all the time was one of the main reasons why SC 2 died and Blizz is very, very aware of that. People want to cheer for their local teams, even if they are bad. So, a compromise has to be made there, if Blizz wants this thing to sell. There was also the point of class restriction, but it honestly just hides the balance problems (if people want less Rogues, Blizz should quit giving everything to Rogues).

    And here's some stats. That's A LOT of Druids.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Lack of a shared battle rez cooldown is 50% of what is restricting class choice, particularly on the tank front. The absurd AOE DPS of subtlety rogues and arms warriors is another 49%. And then the easy access to Drums of Fury is the remaining 1%.

    Those three things restrict class choice to a stupid degree.

    Why would you bring a Brewmaster when a Blood DK is just as good and brings an extra brez?

    Why would you bring a Mistweaver when a Resto Druid is just as good and brings an extra brez?

    Why would you bring an elemental shaman for their bloodlust when a boomkin does more damage, brings a battlerez, and can buy Drums?

    Why would you bring a ret paladin when sub rogues do more damage and survive better?

    Why would you bring a mage when a warlock does similar damage and has a brez?

    Obviously, there are exceptions to this, there were mages, there were ret paladins, there were mistweavers.

    But they are the exceptions.

    If Blizzard implemented a shared combat rez system for m+ similar to raids, if they removed the ability to use Drums in M+, and if sub rogues and arms warriors were toned down just slightly, the class viability in M+ would be thrown wiiiide open.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Do agree with the brez point, but man:
    Why would you bring a ret paladin when sub rogues do more damage and survive better?
    That's just depressing. That's a massive failure on Blizz's part, and it shows even more on Tomb of Soakgeras.

    H3KnucklesDonnictonNobody3cl1ps3
  • RanlinRanlin Oh gosh Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    You're stereoytyping as hard as the people who assume anyone who isn't 940 is bad.

    ...yes? I absolutely am. That was part of my point, in fact. You were in disbelief that anyone would go out of their way to not pick them. So there was another example of someone who does, and why.

    Because I don't equate ilvl with meaningful skill, and we're talking about picking someone at or near appropriate level vs a 940 by default, not bringing an 825 person to heroic ToS.

    So in my experience someone in the right ball park isn't expecting to be carried or otherwise coast through, otherwise they'd be putting the group together and filling it with 940s. But a staggering number of people queueing for things they vastly outgear will too often put forth little to no effort (often outweighing those extra ilvls!) and be incredibly unpleasant toward others or the rest of the group as a whole.
    Especially if they're from Illidan server

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    ilvl doesn't equate to meaningful skill, but in the absence of any certainty ilvl does equate to likely productivity in a run

    In the group finder, someone 910 and someone 940 are equally likely to not be great at the game, but someone who is 940 and not great will outperform someone who is 910 and not great.

    Look, I get PUGing is hard. When I'm not doing anything else, I tend to spend my downtime joining lower level keys around 12-13 who are looking for a tank and helping them get through a dungeon that maybe they otherwise wouldn't complete. But when you're forming a group for difficult content, you take the people with the best odds of success, or you're not being fair to the others in the group.

    You might want to take the 910 person to a Heroic ToS PUG as an act of charity or whatever, over the half a dozen 935+ people waiting in the queue who are linking you AOTC, but is that fair to the other 10+ people in your group? No, it's not.

    And you talk about unpleasantness. I tell you what, the quickest way to have unpleasantness in a group is to take someone who doesn't belong there, especially when things start going wrong.

    Nobody points fingers in a smooth run, it's the runs that go badly that get fingerpointing.

  • RanlinRanlin Oh gosh Registered User regular
    I just gave a (not hypothetical, nor uncommon in my experience) example of when higher ilvl does not equate to likely productivity.

    I mean, at this point we're changing the goal posts of what we're even talking about, so I guess we're once again going to get nowhere.

    So I let's just go with there being evidence (several of us here!) who hold wildly different views of the situation than you do, so at least keep that in mind when issuing blanket "truths" about the game.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    A 940 taking it easy will still crap all over a 915 who is trying their best. 915 being the kind of item level that most people would be considering "appropriate" to be doing Heroic ToS.

    Dhalphir on
This discussion has been closed.