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[WOW] New Expansion Announced: Battle for Azeroth.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Sorry, Tyrannical and Fortified are irrelevant in 15+?

    What game have you been playing? Those two affixes are the most significant of the lot!

    3cl1ps3Kruite
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Sorry, Tyrannical and Fortified are irrelevant in 15+?

    What game have you been playing? Those two affixes are the most significant of the lot!

    Might be a three way tie with Grievous, since it requires such careful kill staggering.

  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Reading through the summary on this Q&A. Can't believe they are doubling down on the implementation of the legendary system being good yet again. Guys, it's ok to admit you screwed it up. Literally no one likes it. I don't get why they keep defending the design.

    There's also a bunch on RNG feeling unrewarding (which is of course what I've harped on all expansion) which sounds very wishy-washy "if you aren't having fun don't play" (which, to me, if you're saying not to play your game, something is wrong here... But that could be a bad summary on MMO Champion's part so I won't hang them for that just yet until I'm able to watch the video).

    I will say, the justification on "there's more RNG but it matters less" misses the point though. What that's saying is there's more RNG for less reward. Which, yes! That's totally true! I don't see how saying "well, loot distribution in vanilla was REALLY shitty so this is totally better" is a good answer :P

    Warlock82 on
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  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    I think this is just what happens when you put Diablo 3 devs in charge of a WoW expansion. The WoW team basically never admits that they screwed up, they just quietly do a massive change to the thing everyone hates.

    Warlock82Donnicton
  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    No new updates on artifact appearances after Legion. You will still be able to unlock all of the appearances later, except for the Mage Tower and Mythic +15 appearances

    Hang on, what? I thought that was sticking around? I specifically remember them likening it to the Green Fire challenge for Warlocks, saying that people could come back later on and have an easier time with it using a higher ilevel. If what they're saying now is true, we have until the next expansion to get all of our offspec/alts geared up to clear this thing before it goes away?

    Not cool if true. Very unhappy.

    BullheadBrainleechZythonDonnicton
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Halfmex wrote: »
    No new updates on artifact appearances after Legion. You will still be able to unlock all of the appearances later, except for the Mage Tower and Mythic +15 appearances

    Hang on, what? I thought that was sticking around? I specifically remember them likening it to the Green Fire challenge for Warlocks, saying that people could come back later on and have an easier time with it using a higher ilevel. If what they're saying now is true, we have until the next expansion to get all of our offspec/alts geared up to clear this thing before it goes away?

    Not cool if true. Very unhappy.

    Later in the expansion, not after that. I think it's dumb too

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  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    Huh. Well, I guess that's out for me then, no way in hell am I working on gearing up 12 characters for each spec to do that in the however many months we have left of this thing. I really never will understand their hard-on for removing content, however cosmetic, from the game just to appease the dick-wavers. Oh well.

    Warlock82H3Knuckles
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Halfmex wrote: »
    Huh. Well, I guess that's out for me then, no way in hell am I working on gearing up 12 characters for each spec to do that in the however many months we have left of this thing. I really never will understand their hard-on for removing content, however cosmetic, from the game just to appease the dick-wavers. Oh well.

    Yeah. Honestly I hate the removal of content in general. I went back to farm some transmog stuff from Sunken Temple and remembered they completely lobotomized that dungeon in Cataclysm. You can't even get to about half of it now even from the overworld. Makes me super sad :(

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    the percentile buffs from fortified and tyrannical get increasingly minor as you push keys higher; 40% boss health is a lot more noticeable in a 10 than it is in a 15, when they already have +280% health anyway

    they change way less about gameplay in those keys than many of the 'lesser' affixes (grievous, bursting, teeming etc)

    I don't have a big problem with it per se but it's not very imaginative and imo feels like something that was designed around the idea that ~10-11 keys would be the highest people would regularly run

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    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    the percentile buffs from fortified and tyrannical get increasingly minor as you push keys higher; 40% boss health is a lot more noticeable in a 10 than it is in a 15, when they already have +280% health anyway

    they change way less about gameplay in those keys than many of the 'lesser' affixes (grievous, bursting, teeming etc)

    That is the exact opposite of how the maths works. The more health a boss has, the more it gains from Tyrannical. The % buffs that key levels add are cumulative. The 40% from Tyrannical is added to the HP of the key level you are running, not the HP of a +0. Gaps between keys are bigger the higher you go. A +12 to a +13 is a bigger jump than a +10 to +11. A +19 to a +20 is a bigger jump than +14 to +17.

    The last boss on 19 Fortified Neltharion's Lair is around 750k HP. He cracks a billion on Tyrannical. That is a massive difference. Quite apart from the number gain, it adds two more golem phases which itself has a ton more HP. Tyrannical does that sort of thing to a lot of bosses. For example, everyone knows that on Court of Stars, the last boss of Tyrannical is a huge DPS race to kill him before the storms kill you. Well, as you start getting into the +19 and +20 realm, the 2nd boss becomes the true DPS race, and you burn lust on her instead of on the last boss. The last boss gets to a point where the healer just has to suck it up and manage, with everyone using defensive CDs the best you can, because the 2nd boss ticking damage scales so hard.
    I don't have a big problem with it per se but it's not very imaginative and imo feels like something that was designed around the idea that ~10-11 keys would be the highest people would regularly run

    This much I agree with you on. The fact that new affixes get added at 4, 7, and 10 is not particularly relevant to anyone doing M+ even semi-seriously, as you'll never be doing keys below 10, so you'll always have all 3 affixes.

    Dhalphir on
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Yeah the % buffs are multiplicative, not additive.

    DhalphirKruite
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/74hrmc/new_legendary_tokens_will_only_be_given_out_when/
    New legendary tokens will ONLY be given out when you have ALL legendaries for that class.

    So...DHs and Streamers only, everybody else doesn't need to apply?

    (Man, Druid mains got fucked).

    Christ Ion, there's bad and then there's this.

    EDIT: On another thing, mad props to the asshole Mage that leaved a portal to Dalaran Crater right on top of KJ's necklace on my Shaman's normal clear. Dude, screw you.

    TryCatcher on
    Warlock823cl1ps3SmrtnikBucketman
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    You get the loot in the mail... just have a laugh and move on

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    From the Q&A
    The difference between survivability when your active mitigation is up and when it isn't shouldn't be huge

    Oh, is that why Demon Hunter active mitigation is 45%+ DR and 20-30% parry? And why we're made of paper outside that?

    Dhalphir on
    crimsoncoyote
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    That sounds like the exact same thing they say about Tanks right before they change the shit out of them for a new expansion. Then the same thing happens again with the new philosophy.

    I personally haven't had much issue with the Legendaries. My biggest issue is that they think it's perfectly fine to give a huge middle finger to alts and people coming back from breaks/joining late. The "catch up" drop rate is a flat out myth. Or its baked so hard into RNG that people who do get their first few quickly are just as likely to be super lucky as those who don't being super unlucky. Which means even if it does exist, its not an acceptable "solution"

    The fact they are now rewarding people who played intensively with the ability to have exactly what everyone else NEEDS is, to bring back an old term, "a slap in the face". This is all coming from someone who knows full well its possible to perform well enough without legendaries. But not having them play wise is about the equivalent of only having 30 of your 50 talent points in Vanilla. Its downright not as fun and for some classes you don't even get the full experience. And don't even start about how some classes just need the survivability that comes from some legendaries.

    All of this I would be ok with too, if it wasn't about to be the last raid of the whole expansion and if I wanted to start a character at 110 right now, I would be lucky to have 2 legendaries before Antorus opened. While its basically "expected" at this point you have most of your main specs legendaries at this point.

    BahamutZERO
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Watching through the Q&A. Ugg, this response to the RNG question... MMO Champion didn't get it wrong. They really said "if you aren't enjoying it you shouldn't do it." Granted, admitting that was a problem, but then going on to praise the randomness and even use the stupid example of how bad it feels to see someone else with a crazy Titanforged item but you know, it's fine because on average your items might be better. Guys, human psychology doesn't work that way :P

    The legendary thing was actually a little off, since they did caveat it as a "system with all utility legendaries." I sort of get where they are coming from, in that the randomness can be fun if you aren't getting "bad RNG," but the real problem is distribution IMO and they seem fine with that :/ It's funny, the thing where they talk about the stupid design for the tokens they even say "1st world problems" - you don't say! Their "fix" is "eventually other people will get all their legendaries so it's fine" -_-

    Edit: They also are talking a lot about specific character prestige, as though somehow people give a shit about what weapon transmog you have or if you are using a pvp prestige mount. I still don't understand this feeling. Just let me share crap with my alts or get it later. No one is gonna give a shit 3 expansions later if I'm using a special artifact transmog. Hell, I don't even think people care much about mounts anymore since there are a bazillion of them now. Would anyone even notice if someone was riding a black silithid mount anymore?

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  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/74hrmc/new_legendary_tokens_will_only_be_given_out_when/
    New legendary tokens will ONLY be given out when you have ALL legendaries for that class.

    So...DHs and Streamers only, everybody else doesn't need to apply?

    (Man, Druid mains got fucked).

    Christ Ion, there's bad and then there's this.

    EDIT: On another thing, mad props to the asshole Mage that leaved a portal to Dalaran Crater right on top of KJ's necklace on my Shaman's normal clear. Dude, screw you.

    What is even the fucking point of that?

    Man. I really do not like Ian as game lead.

    Warlock82
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    I don't understand what the purpose of any of that is.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    the arcanocrystal is a perfect example of the titanforging system gone wrong

    for a high end mythic raider or M+ pusher, who invests 3-4 hours a day in making their character the best it can be, seeing someone who doesn't do anything but world quests running around with a 935 relinquished arcanocrystal is utter torture because of just how amazing that one item would be

    Warlock823cl1ps3DonnictonBucketman
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    the arcanocrystal is a perfect example of the titanforging system gone wrong

    for a high end mythic raider or M+ pusher, who invests 3-4 hours a day in making their character the best it can be, seeing someone who doesn't do anything but world quests running around with a 935 relinquished arcanocrystal is utter torture because of just how amazing that one item would be

    Yeah exactly. Or the way it always works out for me is some completely shit item like the garbage they put in emissary caches will be what I get a crazy titanforge on and it won't even go up higher than what I'm already wearing. So it's like, great, my titanforge RNG was just wasted.

    Titanforging is a bad system. You don't want people still running old content? Don't let the old content still produce upgrades! Warforging is fine, I don't mind that. But 5-10 ilvls should be the max.

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    it's nice that there's an alt catch-up thing, but having every legendary for your class can't be very common at all even among higher-end players and I can't imagine it will be for a while (also lol druids)

    I agree with them about the titanforging thing though; the gear someone else has isn't actually a problem and it's not like they could've given it to you anyway. If you're catching feelings because some "casual" got an extremely lucky titanforge... grow the fuck up, basically

    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
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    Nyht
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    Yeah exactly. Or the way it always works out for me is some completely shit item like the garbage they put in emissary caches will be what I get a crazy titanforge on and it won't even go up higher than what I'm already wearing. So it's like, great, my titanforge RNG was just wasted.

    oh yeah, can't forget about the old +55 titanforge on a daily heroic item, bringing it to a cool 920.

    3cl1ps3Donnicton
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    From the Q&A
    The difference between survivability when your active mitigation is up and when it isn't shouldn't be huge

    Oh, is that why Demon Hunter active mitigation is 45%+ DR and 20-30% parry? And why we're made of paper outside that?

    Or why Paladins get fucking destroyed when theirs isn't up.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Prot paladins are another good example.

  • ZundeZunde Registered User regular
    I keep getting banned from the Blizzard forums.

    I need to stop posting on the blizzard forums.

  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    I have not been to the blizzard forums for maybe 3 years?

  • EnclaveofGnomesEnclaveofGnomes Registered User regular
    Zunde wrote: »
    I keep getting banned from the Blizzard forums.

    I need to stop posting on the blizzard forums.

    Given the amount of Vitriol they allow...that must be pretty intense posts.

    3cl1ps3
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    I have not been to the blizzard forums for maybe 3 years?

    Yeah I quit going a long time ago. I remember the last time I seriously posted I got trolled as a "Battleground AFKer" because I said the rep gains in AB and WSG were terrible (they still are!). Apparently being exalted with AV but barely having rep with the other two makes me an AFKer. Or you know, there are way way more ways to gain rep in AV (especially in Vanilla) and I just liked that one way more...

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  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Zunde wrote: »
    I keep getting banned from the Blizzard forums.

    I need to stop posting on the blizzard forums.

    Given the amount of Vitriol they allow...that must be pretty intense posts.

    No it's probably just Wyrmrest Accord being petulant children.

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    Halfmex wrote: »
    No new updates on artifact appearances after Legion. You will still be able to unlock all of the appearances later, except for the Mage Tower and Mythic +15 appearances

    Hang on, what? I thought that was sticking around? I specifically remember them likening it to the Green Fire challenge for Warlocks, saying that people could come back later on and have an easier time with it using a higher ilevel. If what they're saying now is true, we have until the next expansion to get all of our offspec/alts geared up to clear this thing before it goes away?

    Not cool if true. Very unhappy.

    Later in the expansion, not after that. I think it's dumb too

    It is consistent with their challenge mode stuff. You will probably still be able to do it but once it is trivial to you in a future expansion you don't get the unique appearance stuff for doing it any more. Still by the end of the antorus raid I have to imagine people should be more than geared enough to punch through the challenge stuff pretty reasonably.

    crimsoncoyote
  • ZundeZunde Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Zunde wrote: »
    I keep getting banned from the Blizzard forums.

    I need to stop posting on the blizzard forums.

    Given the amount of Vitriol they allow...that must be pretty intense posts.
    "Harassment" "Okay let's start a drinking game take a shot every time some troglodyte screams "White knight!" As opposed to a rational response.

    Zunde on
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    kaid wrote: »
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    Halfmex wrote: »
    No new updates on artifact appearances after Legion. You will still be able to unlock all of the appearances later, except for the Mage Tower and Mythic +15 appearances

    Hang on, what? I thought that was sticking around? I specifically remember them likening it to the Green Fire challenge for Warlocks, saying that people could come back later on and have an easier time with it using a higher ilevel. If what they're saying now is true, we have until the next expansion to get all of our offspec/alts geared up to clear this thing before it goes away?

    Not cool if true. Very unhappy.

    Later in the expansion, not after that. I think it's dumb too

    It is consistent with their challenge mode stuff. You will probably still be able to do it but once it is trivial to you in a future expansion you don't get the unique appearance stuff for doing it any more. Still by the end of the antorus raid I have to imagine people should be more than geared enough to punch through the challenge stuff pretty reasonably.

    Kind of? But it's not quite the same. Challenge mode was "you do it and you get the reward." This is, you do it on three (or four) different specs, then you have to do a bunch of superfluous extra shit to unlock all the tints. I'm never going to unlock the tint I actually want for mine because it requires rated battleground wins which is the exact opposite type of gameplay. I doubt I will get the other spec appearances because I'm not familiar enough with those specs to perform as flawlessly as the mage tower thing requires. Those aren't really issues with the old challenge modes. You do it once, with one spec you are good at and it's done. In some cases the rewards even carry over to your alts (i.e. the mounts).

    But again, even there I don't really see the point. I seriously doubt it has the intended effect of someone looking and saying "wow they have this unique armor! They must be really good!" With transmog, everyone has weird ass armor. For the most part, does anyone care where it comes from unless they want it themselves? And I don't even think any of this stuff looks that special anyways. This isn't the early days of WoW where someone wearing, say, a high tier set really stood out because everything else looked plain in comparison. There is way too much crazy gear now that it's all noise.

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  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I assume when you have all-legendaries for your class you get a token for a random class that can be given to alts. Otherwise it makes no sense.

    YL9WnCY.png
    crimsoncoyote
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    I assume when you have all-legendaries for your class you get a token for a random class that can be given to alts. Otherwise it makes no sense.

    Well right. But that's stupid. Getting every single class Legendary takes forever, by the time you've managed that your alts are probably not in need of too much catchup, and this would be just as slow as getting them anyway.

  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    It's funny because if you play your main enough to get all the legendaries, you probably don't play alts

    3cl1ps3NobodyBullheadKai_SanBahamutZEROH3KnucklesSmrtnikDonnictonBucketman
  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    I assume when you have all-legendaries for your class you get a token for a random class that can be given to alts. Otherwise it makes no sense.

    That is my assumption or at least all the legendaries for the spec you are currently in maybe.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    I assume when you have all-legendaries for your class you get a token for a random class that can be given to alts. Otherwise it makes no sense.

    That is my assumption or at least all the legendaries for the spec you are currently in maybe.

    Nope, whole class. When you have all your legendaries for one spec you start getting random offspec ones.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Zunde wrote: »
    Zunde wrote: »
    I keep getting banned from the Blizzard forums.

    I need to stop posting on the blizzard forums.

    Given the amount of Vitriol they allow...that must be pretty intense posts.
    "Harassment" "Okay let's start a drinking game take a shot every time some troglodyte screams "White knight!" As opposed to a rational response.

    I don't understand your sense of vague pride in your words that is evident here.

    Dhalphir on
  • ZundeZunde Registered User regular
    I'm not proud of being punished.

  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    Halfmex wrote: »
    No new updates on artifact appearances after Legion. You will still be able to unlock all of the appearances later, except for the Mage Tower and Mythic +15 appearances

    Hang on, what? I thought that was sticking around? I specifically remember them likening it to the Green Fire challenge for Warlocks, saying that people could come back later on and have an easier time with it using a higher ilevel. If what they're saying now is true, we have until the next expansion to get all of our offspec/alts geared up to clear this thing before it goes away?

    Not cool if true. Very unhappy.

    Later in the expansion, not after that. I think it's dumb too

    It is consistent with their challenge mode stuff. You will probably still be able to do it but once it is trivial to you in a future expansion you don't get the unique appearance stuff for doing it any more. Still by the end of the antorus raid I have to imagine people should be more than geared enough to punch through the challenge stuff pretty reasonably.

    Well, the issue is alts. Like, I have a Druid. I can get him geared to possibly get the Resto and Balance appearances. But getting the Feral and Guardian appearances is out of the question for me, and I would really like the option to just get the Guardian appearance later.

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