The main problem is that they try to fit all BGs into a single mold/queue. What they actually need is several different queues, or playlists as most games call them, for different types of games, including a playlist for big epic battles. Old style AV, Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, just jam it all in there.
They need to pump up honor just from running around doing things instead of having the most optimal output being "winning the match".
Encourage people to actually do things.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
But @I needed a gnome to post., one of the new racial abilities is literally named "The Sky Is Falling" and the description is "Bring down the sky on top of your enemies and their entire faction, deleting their accounts forever"!
I'm not really looking forward to the new BG to be honest. There are too many BGs on each side to ban. AV IoC for horde, temple for alliance, SotA for everyone. If the new bg is terrible, that will just be another one you have to suffer through. I already don't like some of the others but will play them, like silvershard, twin peaks, and the gorge one. Their best ones are easily AB and gilneas, which gives me hope for the new one because it's also along the vein of point control.
At the minimum, all the hideously broken ones need to be removed from the main queue. Maybe as a rotational thing when a new season starts? If people really want to play them, give them the option in War Games.
Temple I wouldn't mind if they swapped it out for the Brawl version, since that's actually fun.
I wouldn't mind it if there was actually the option to join a Rated BG solo-queue, although I could imagine that being... interesting...
And then have someone sane work on the match-maker (lol blizzard matchmakers lol) so that roles are evened out between the sides. There is absolutely no reason why a match should fire when one side has no healers, and the other side has three.
PMAvers on
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Theres so much work that needs to be done for pvp to work and no one is doing it. Like double everyones health, cut damage in half, cut healing by 60ish percent, and prune a shitton of cc and mobility. Fights will last longer than 2s, but will end because healing cant keep up. And people get to do things because cc isnt as crazy.
As someone who’s keyboard and mouse mysteriously fly across the room when she does pvp, how are the ‘brawls’? They look interesting, and I need to get tokens to buy transmog sets. For example, Ashran was fun enough for me to actually get exalted with my faction. Which puzzles me, since the consensus seems to be ‘Ashran sucks’
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
This week's brawl is Arathi Basin with reduced view distance and slightly altered terrain. If you like Arathi Basin, it's fun.
Most of the other brawls have been pretty fun too. The WSG brawl where you get three flags and the first team to cap ten is objectively better than standard WSG. The TBC BG (Netherstorm?) brawl does a thing where every X minutes everyone is propelled high into the air and can then glide their way pretty much across the whole map, which is fun.
As a general rule the brawls are much more fun than regular BGs, so of course they're only available one at a time every two weeks because fuuuuu
Brawls are just variants on existing bgs and arenas. Like the one going on now is literally Arathi Basin, but all the water is frozen (so you can run on it), there is snow drifts that let you climb places you can't normally, and visibility is reduced to just a few feet. Some others I've seen:
- WSG except you don't have to have your own flag returned to claim enemy flag, and there are 3 flags per side in play at any given time
- arena but with 15 prayers per side zoned in
- eye of the storm but ever minute or so gravity stops working and you can take a huge jump from like mage tower to blood elf tower (or whatever)
- some weird basketball variant on Silvershard mines, i didn't understand this one
- the
- there are others too
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I like warsong deep six, where the flag is moved to entrance of tunnel and only six players per team
Level 10 - 9,240 XP to Level, up 5% from 8,800 XP
Level 11 - 10,780 XP to Level, up 10% from 9,800 XP
Level 12 - 13,225 XP to Level, up 15% from 11,500 XP
Level 13 - 16,800 XP to Level, up 20% from 14,000 XP
Level 14 - 20,375 XP to Level, up 25% from 16,300 XP
Level 15 - 24,440 XP to Level, up 30% from 18,800 XP
Level 16 - 28,080 XP to Level, up 35% from 20,800 XP
Level 17 - 31,500 XP to Level, up 40% from 22,500 XP
Level 18 - 34,800 XP to Level, up 45% from 24,000 XP
Level 19 - 38,550 XP to Level, up 50% from 25,700 XP
Level 20 - 42,315 XP to Level, up 55% from 27,300 XP
Level 21 - 46,560 XP to Level, up 60% from 29,100 XP
Level 22 - 49,440 XP to Level, up 60% from 30,900 XP
Level 23 - 52,000 XP to Level, up 60% from 32,500 XP
Level 24 - 55,040 XP to Level, up 60% from 34,400 XP
Level 25 - 58,400 XP to Level, up 60% from 36,500 XP
Level 26 - 61,120 XP to Level, up 60% from 38,200 XP
Level 27 - 64,160 XP to Level, up 60% from 40,100 XP
Level 28 - 66,880 XP to Level, up 60% from 41,800 XP
Level 29 - 71,680 XP to Level, up 60% from 44,800 XP
Level 30 - 76,160 XP to Level, up 60% from 47,600 XP
Level 31 - 81,440 XP to Level, up 60% from 50,900 XP
Level 32 - 85,600 XP to Level, up 60% from 53,500 XP
Level 33 - 90,240 XP to Level, up 60% from 56,400 XP
Level 34 - 94,560 XP to Level, up 60% from 59,100 XP
Level 35 - 99,200 XP to Level, up 60% from 62,000 XP
Level 36 - 104,160 XP to Level, up 60% from 65,100 XP
Level 37 - 108,480 XP to Level, up 60% from 67,800 XP
Level 38 - 113,280 XP to Level, up 60% from 70,800 XP
Level 39 - 117,920 XP to Level, up 60% from 73,700 XP
Level 40 - 133,980 XP to Level, up 40% from 95,700 XP
Level 41 - 139,300 XP to Level, up 40% from 99,500 XP
Level 42 - 144,620 XP to Level, up 40% from 103,300 XP
Level 43 - 149,800 XP to Level, up 40% from 107,000 XP
Level 44 - 155,120 XP to Level, up 40% from 110,800 XP
Level 45 - 160,580 XP to Level, up 40% from 114,700 XP
Level 46 - 165,900 XP to Level, up 40% from 118,500 XP
Level 47 - 171,360 XP to Level, up 40% from 122,400 XP
Level 48 - 176,820 XP to Level, up 40% from 126,300 XP
Level 49 - 182,280 XP to Level, up 40% from 130,200 XP
Level 50 - 188,020 XP to Level, up 40% from 134,300 XP
Level 51 - 193,620 XP to Level, up 40% from 138,300 XP
Level 52 - 199,360 XP to Level, up 40% from 142,400 XP
Level 53 - 205,100 XP to Level, up 40% from 146,500 XP
Level 54 - 210,700 XP to Level, up 40% from 150,500 XP
Level 55 - 216,580 XP to Level, up 40% from 154,700 XP
Level 56 - 222,460 XP to Level, up 40% from 158,900 XP
Level 57 - 228,480 XP to Level, up 40% from 163,200 XP
Level 58 - 234,220 XP to Level, up 40% from 167,300 XP
Level 59 - 240,380 XP to Level, up 40% from 171,700 XP
On hindsight, is funny to see people talking about pro-Alliance bias when the Nightborne are joining the Horde because the Alliance are self-righteous pricks. Liadrin actually worked hard to make the relationship with the Nightborne and the Suramar campaign work, while Tyrande had the diplomatic skills of a brick, since is always her way or the highway.
TryCatcher on
+1
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
On hindsight, is funny to see people talking about pro-Alliance bias when the Nightborne are joining the Horde because the Alliance are self-righteous pricks. Liadrin actually worked hard to make the relationship with the Nightborne and the Suramar campaign work, while Tyrande had the diplomatic skills of a brick, since is always her way or the highway.
I think this is sort of peoples' point. The current Horde leaders are written as less shitty than the Alliance leaders, but the Horde are still the bad guys.
On hindsight, is funny to see people talking about pro-Alliance bias when the Nightborne are joining the Horde because the Alliance are self-righteous pricks. Liadrin actually worked hard to make the relationship with the Nightborne and the Suramar campaign work, while Tyrande had the diplomatic skills of a brick, since is always her way or the highway.
I think this is sort of peoples' point. The current Horde leaders are written as less shitty than the Alliance leaders, but the Horde are still the bad guys.
It balances. Is mainly the contrast of the difference between the Alliance and the Horde now: The Alliance has a leader that wants peace but advisors that want war, while the Horde has a leader that wants war but advisors that want peace. That's a fairly interesting contrast.
Also, I'm biased. Liadrin and Nobundo are my favorite characters. They both work so hard, went through some very nasty stuff, and it mostly goes underappreciated.
On hindsight, is funny to see people talking about pro-Alliance bias when the Nightborne are joining the Horde because the Alliance are self-righteous pricks. Liadrin actually worked hard to make the relationship with the Nightborne and the Suramar campaign work, while Tyrande had the diplomatic skills of a brick, since is always her way or the highway.
I think this is sort of peoples' point. The current Horde leaders are written as less shitty than the Alliance leaders, but the Horde are still the bad guys.
Well, except Baine, his writing has been consistently shitty.
What mage spec is good these days? I'm frost (though undergeared so maybe that's it), but I feel so squishy. Certainly not helped as its an alt to my prot pally main, but still I'm dying too much.
Probably because now that everything scales to your level you won't be stuck with quests and mobs going green and giving you reduced experience.
That's silly as for years they have pushed the end game is the place to be leveling is only 20% of the journey
Turns out that the above is bad for actually getting new players into the game. Like, there's boosts of course, but if a new player regrets their choice (and they will) or want to explore the game, then what? A leveling experience where you just one-shot mobs and outlevel areas is a bad one, no matter how many methods you add to skip it.
Though raids are also scaling on the PTR. Hopefully that's wrong, else...is not going to be pretty.
+4
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I think it wasn't that raids were scaling, so much as whatever blanket increase they did to mobs was just put on any thing in the game not in the Legion level range.
Also it likely won't matter come the expansion which is likely what all these changes are being done assuming. That old content damage increase will likely apply to all but legion raids.
I think it wasn't that raids were scaling, so much as whatever blanket increase they did to mobs was just put on any thing in the game not in the Legion level range.
Also it likely won't matter come the expansion which is likely what all these changes are being done assuming. That old content damage increase will likely apply to all but legion raids.
You are right, though those changes are rolling in on 7.3.5. Point is, anything that makes people's weekly Invincible farm even a little bit longer is going to get A LOT of hostility. Probably a coding issue, raid mobs should be excluded from the increase.
+1
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I would take the lazy way out on something mostly meaningless and essentially meaningless in less than a year.
You one shot everything not a Mop or WoD raid anyway. Invincible will absolutely still involve all one shots. I think the worst that could happen is Archi becomes unbeatable again in some versions of HFC because you can't burst past the thing that needs more than one person.
What mage spec is good these days? I'm frost (though undergeared so maybe that's it), but I feel so squishy. Certainly not helped as its an alt to my prot pally main, but still I'm dying too much.
None of them. But the least bad one is currently Frost. You're also going to have a bad time soloing as a Mage in general until you get Prydaz and/or Belo'vir.
On hindsight, is funny to see people talking about pro-Alliance bias when the Nightborne are joining the Horde because the Alliance are self-righteous pricks. Liadrin actually worked hard to make the relationship with the Nightborne and the Suramar campaign work, while Tyrande had the diplomatic skills of a brick, since is always her way or the highway.
I think this is sort of peoples' point. The current Horde leaders are written as less shitty than the Alliance leaders, but the Horde are still the bad guys.
Well, except Baine, his writing has been consistently shitty.
What mage spec is good these days? I'm frost (though undergeared so maybe that's it), but I feel so squishy. Certainly not helped as its an alt to my prot pally main, but still I'm dying too much.
None of them. But the least bad one is currently Frost. You're also going to have a bad time soloing as a Mage in general until you get Prydaz and/or Belo'vir.
On hindsight, is funny to see people talking about pro-Alliance bias when the Nightborne are joining the Horde because the Alliance are self-righteous pricks. Liadrin actually worked hard to make the relationship with the Nightborne and the Suramar campaign work, while Tyrande had the diplomatic skills of a brick, since is always her way or the highway.
I think this is sort of peoples' point. The current Horde leaders are written as less shitty than the Alliance leaders, but the Horde are still the bad guys.
Well, except Baine, his writing has been consistently shitty.
What writing?
It's there!
The leader short story where he gave the quilboar what they needed/wanted after they started killing Tauren (and then they just went back to killing Tauren anyway).
And when he exiled anybody who sought to fight back against the Alliance forces that sacked Taurajo and were beating on the gates of Mulgore.
What mage spec is good these days? I'm frost (though undergeared so maybe that's it), but I feel so squishy. Certainly not helped as its an alt to my prot pally main, but still I'm dying too much.
None of them. But the least bad one is currently Frost. You're also going to have a bad time soloing as a Mage in general until you get Prydaz and/or Belo'vir.
On hindsight, is funny to see people talking about pro-Alliance bias when the Nightborne are joining the Horde because the Alliance are self-righteous pricks. Liadrin actually worked hard to make the relationship with the Nightborne and the Suramar campaign work, while Tyrande had the diplomatic skills of a brick, since is always her way or the highway.
I think this is sort of peoples' point. The current Horde leaders are written as less shitty than the Alliance leaders, but the Horde are still the bad guys.
Well, except Baine, his writing has been consistently shitty.
What writing?
It's there!
The leader short story where he gave the quilboar what they needed/wanted after they started killing Tauren (and then they just went back to killing Tauren anyway).
And when he exiled anybody who sought to fight back against the Alliance forces that sacked Taurajo and were beating on the gates of Mulgore.
Probably because now that everything scales to your level you won't be stuck with quests and mobs going green and giving you reduced experience.
That's silly as for years they have pushed the end game is the place to be leveling is only 20% of the journey
Turns out that the above is bad for actually getting new players into the game. Like, there's boosts of course, but if a new player regrets their choice (and they will) or want to explore the game, then what? A leveling experience where you just one-shot mobs and outlevel areas is a bad one, no matter how many methods you add to skip it.
Though raids are also scaling on the PTR. Hopefully that's wrong, else...is not going to be pretty.
On the ptr they have apparently also increased the health of mobs so that you actually have to fight them instead of just rolling over them as they die from a single hit. All in all it looks like we are in for some actual improvements to the leveling experience even if it might take a bit longer.
On the ptr they have apparently also increased the health of mobs so that you actually have to fight them instead of just rolling over them as they die from a single hit. All in all it looks like we are in for some actual improvements to the leveling experience even if it might take a bit longer.
There is definitely a balance point to WoW's levelling. You can't make the journey too long, or it becomes too much of an obstacle to people joining the game. But you also can't make it too easy or quick, because then it ceases to actually be gameplay and just becomes a chore from start to finish.
The levelling experience needs to be full of little accomplishments, and little rewards. Getting a nice blue weapon at 32 that makes you feel super powerful for a few levels until you outlevel it. Completing a series of elite quests that required teaming up with someone. Running a dungeon with a couple of wipes when the group got overeager, and feeling good about learning from mistakes to beat it.
You need those on the way to max level to avoid the entire task feeling like one big chore. Right now, the only real accomplishment is the actual moment you hit max level. Up until that point, it's all one monotonous grind because you can't actually fail it. You do get nice rewards, from dungeon quests, from end of zone quests. But they don't matter, because even when you get them the average combat length goes from 4 seconds to 3.5 seconds, and you're outlevelling them in thirty minutes anyway. Making combat take longer and making the whole process longer helps make those gear rewards actually meaningful because they'll be worthwhile and helpful, which then has the side effect of making it feel good to get them, rather than indifferent.
This kind of thing is the whole appeal of WoW Classic for a lot of people, myself included. I freely concede that Classic probably goes too far into the opposite direction for many players. But I don't think it's hard to make the case that modern WoW has gone too far into the current direction, and could do with a bit of dialing back.
Dhalphir on
+1
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2017
Totally unrelated note, I'm actually really disappointed that this upcoming expansion didn't include the expansion of the M+ system to some older dungeons. There are some fantastic dungeons in WoW's history, and the M+ system is tailor made for making content relevant past its original expiry date. There is no reason we couldn't be running a +20 Halls of Reflection, or a +15 Zul'Aman. You probably couldn't go back any further than Wrath without having to tweak some of the mechanics to make them work properly in the modern game, but that's still over fifty dungeons that could be added.
Even if all they added was the WoD dungeons. Challenge Mode was the precursor to M+ after all, and they worked fine in that environment.
The new questing design they introduced in Cata feels very linear compared to the old version. You're on rails being pushed through each area, and it really ruins the open world feel the original game had. Exploring and getting waxed by an army of bears and spiders was part of the games charm.
They pushed you through areas back then too. South Durotar -> Razor Hill -> Crossroads -> Ratchet -> Taraujo -> Mor'Shan Rampart -> Splintertree Post -> Zoramar -> ... I can't remember the rest of the progression, but yeah. One difference was that you could skip ahead more easily, because quest chains weren't as long and tied into the whole zone, but you can still skip past zones now, as the Adventure Journal will give you the opening quest for the each zone. Just harder to skip missions within a zone, since chains run longer now, but you can often still jump forward into subareas and get new quests there. Sometimes they funnel you through an introductory quest to the zone/subzone, but I've never really found it a problem. (Other than in Icecrown. The chains in Icecrown were really difficult to follow.)
But quests were still just as linear, and they often led you into dungeons too. I remember Wailing Caverns back in the day, and having to knock out a huge series of quests before being "prepped" for WC dungeon quests. Oof.
Totally unrelated note, I'm actually really disappointed that this upcoming expansion didn't include the expansion of the M+ system to some older dungeons. There are some fantastic dungeons in WoW's history, and the M+ system is tailor made for making content relevant past its original expiry date. There is no reason we couldn't be running a +20 Halls of Reflection, or a +15 Zul'Aman. You probably couldn't go back any further than Wrath without having to tweak some of the mechanics to make them work properly in the modern game, but that's still over fifty dungeons that could be added.
Even if all they added was the WoD dungeons. Challenge Mode was the precursor to M+ after all, and they worked fine in that environment.
I was under the impression they've been talking about working on Timewalking M+'s.
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They need to pump up honor just from running around doing things instead of having the most optimal output being "winning the match".
Encourage people to actually do things.
Yup I was trying to resist but glowy hair options and a cool racial mount means one of my casters is getting remade as a void elf.
I'm going to be making a lot of new rp characters out of the Allied races created purely to piss off a specific subset of players.
At the minimum, all the hideously broken ones need to be removed from the main queue. Maybe as a rotational thing when a new season starts? If people really want to play them, give them the option in War Games.
Temple I wouldn't mind if they swapped it out for the Brawl version, since that's actually fun.
I wouldn't mind it if there was actually the option to join a Rated BG solo-queue, although I could imagine that being... interesting...
And then have someone sane work on the match-maker (lol blizzard matchmakers lol) so that roles are evened out between the sides. There is absolutely no reason why a match should fire when one side has no healers, and the other side has three.
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Dear Satan.....
Most of the other brawls have been pretty fun too. The WSG brawl where you get three flags and the first team to cap ten is objectively better than standard WSG. The TBC BG (Netherstorm?) brawl does a thing where every X minutes everyone is propelled high into the air and can then glide their way pretty much across the whole map, which is fun.
As a general rule the brawls are much more fun than regular BGs, so of course they're only available one at a time every two weeks because fuuuuu
- WSG except you don't have to have your own flag returned to claim enemy flag, and there are 3 flags per side in play at any given time
- arena but with 15 prayers per side zoned in
- eye of the storm but ever minute or so gravity stops working and you can take a huge jump from like mage tower to blood elf tower (or whatever)
- some weird basketball variant on Silvershard mines, i didn't understand this one
- the
- there are others too
Why?
I think this is sort of peoples' point. The current Horde leaders are written as less shitty than the Alliance leaders, but the Horde are still the bad guys.
It balances. Is mainly the contrast of the difference between the Alliance and the Horde now: The Alliance has a leader that wants peace but advisors that want war, while the Horde has a leader that wants war but advisors that want peace. That's a fairly interesting contrast.
Also, I'm biased. Liadrin and Nobundo are my favorite characters. They both work so hard, went through some very nasty stuff, and it mostly goes underappreciated.
Well, except Baine, his writing has been consistently shitty.
That's silly as for years they have pushed the end game is the place to be leveling is only 20% of the journey
Turns out that the above is bad for actually getting new players into the game. Like, there's boosts of course, but if a new player regrets their choice (and they will) or want to explore the game, then what? A leveling experience where you just one-shot mobs and outlevel areas is a bad one, no matter how many methods you add to skip it.
Though raids are also scaling on the PTR. Hopefully that's wrong, else...is not going to be pretty.
Also it likely won't matter come the expansion which is likely what all these changes are being done assuming. That old content damage increase will likely apply to all but legion raids.
You are right, though those changes are rolling in on 7.3.5. Point is, anything that makes people's weekly Invincible farm even a little bit longer is going to get A LOT of hostility. Probably a coding issue, raid mobs should be excluded from the increase.
You one shot everything not a Mop or WoD raid anyway. Invincible will absolutely still involve all one shots. I think the worst that could happen is Archi becomes unbeatable again in some versions of HFC because you can't burst past the thing that needs more than one person.
None of them. But the least bad one is currently Frost. You're also going to have a bad time soloing as a Mage in general until you get Prydaz and/or Belo'vir.
What writing?
It's there!
The leader short story where he gave the quilboar what they needed/wanted after they started killing Tauren (and then they just went back to killing Tauren anyway).
And when he exiled anybody who sought to fight back against the Alliance forces that sacked Taurajo and were beating on the gates of Mulgore.
wait what.
baine, wtf dude.
On the ptr they have apparently also increased the health of mobs so that you actually have to fight them instead of just rolling over them as they die from a single hit. All in all it looks like we are in for some actual improvements to the leveling experience even if it might take a bit longer.
There is definitely a balance point to WoW's levelling. You can't make the journey too long, or it becomes too much of an obstacle to people joining the game. But you also can't make it too easy or quick, because then it ceases to actually be gameplay and just becomes a chore from start to finish.
The levelling experience needs to be full of little accomplishments, and little rewards. Getting a nice blue weapon at 32 that makes you feel super powerful for a few levels until you outlevel it. Completing a series of elite quests that required teaming up with someone. Running a dungeon with a couple of wipes when the group got overeager, and feeling good about learning from mistakes to beat it.
You need those on the way to max level to avoid the entire task feeling like one big chore. Right now, the only real accomplishment is the actual moment you hit max level. Up until that point, it's all one monotonous grind because you can't actually fail it. You do get nice rewards, from dungeon quests, from end of zone quests. But they don't matter, because even when you get them the average combat length goes from 4 seconds to 3.5 seconds, and you're outlevelling them in thirty minutes anyway. Making combat take longer and making the whole process longer helps make those gear rewards actually meaningful because they'll be worthwhile and helpful, which then has the side effect of making it feel good to get them, rather than indifferent.
This kind of thing is the whole appeal of WoW Classic for a lot of people, myself included. I freely concede that Classic probably goes too far into the opposite direction for many players. But I don't think it's hard to make the case that modern WoW has gone too far into the current direction, and could do with a bit of dialing back.
Even if all they added was the WoD dungeons. Challenge Mode was the precursor to M+ after all, and they worked fine in that environment.
which maybe is okay in an environment where heirlooms exist and boosts are for sale anyway, I dunno
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
But quests were still just as linear, and they often led you into dungeons too. I remember Wailing Caverns back in the day, and having to knock out a huge series of quests before being "prepped" for WC dungeon quests. Oof.
I was under the impression they've been talking about working on Timewalking M+'s.
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