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Protesting and Signal Loss [NFL/NBA etc. Protests]

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  • DouglasDouglas PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Even if Papa John's was decent, I would not give that asshole any money

  • Element BrianElement Brian Peanut Butter Shill Registered User regular
    Switch FC code:SW-2130-4285-0059

    Arch,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Nice so by telling papa john to fuck off I can also tell Jerry Jones to suck a dick? Perfect.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    http://www.businessinsider.com/yum-ceo-nfl-protests-havent-hurt-pizza-huts-sales-2017-11
    "We're not seeing impact on any of that on our business," Greg Creed, CEO of Pizza Hut's parent company Yum Brands, said in a call with investors on Thursday.

    "Hey maybe your shit just sucks john"

    That is one sick burn.

    I am sad it came from Pizza Hut though, the Billy Baldwin of Chain Pizza

    My experience with Pizza Hut is that it's just fine. Their cheese sticks are good though.

    Boycotting Papa John's pizza is the easiest boycott in the world.

    Steam
    Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    http://www.businessinsider.com/yum-ceo-nfl-protests-havent-hurt-pizza-huts-sales-2017-11
    "We're not seeing impact on any of that on our business," Greg Creed, CEO of Pizza Hut's parent company Yum Brands, said in a call with investors on Thursday.

    "Hey maybe your shit just sucks john"

    That is one sick burn.

    I am sad it came from Pizza Hut though, the Billy Baldwin of Chain Pizza

    My experience with Pizza Hut is that it's just fine. Their cheese sticks are good though.

    Boycotting Papa John's pizza is the easiest boycott in the world.

    Once the other chains started offering garlic sauce, they pretty much lost their only competitive advantage.

  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    http://www.businessinsider.com/yum-ceo-nfl-protests-havent-hurt-pizza-huts-sales-2017-11
    "We're not seeing impact on any of that on our business," Greg Creed, CEO of Pizza Hut's parent company Yum Brands, said in a call with investors on Thursday.

    "Hey maybe your shit just sucks john"

    And just like that, I think I’m ordering Pizza Hut tonight.

    (Hardly my favorite chain, but I love it when amusing shade is tossed. Also, fuck you Papa Porta-John.)

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    Papa John stands in front of broken glass:

    PJ: Are my sales dropping because I have the reputation of a money grubbing CEO, and my pizzas suck?

    Pauses

    PJ: No, it’s the NFL that’s to blame.

  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    Jerrah: goood.......GOOOOOODDD

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Isn't that exactly what they did until DoD paid the NFLto be a recruiting advertisement?

  • This content has been removed.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    Isn't that exactly what they did until DoD paid the NFLto be a recruiting advertisement?
    Apparently. It's only been less than a decade since they were required to be on the field before hand, because marketing.

    So I guess, from a technical perspective, that NFL players protesting ARE disrespecting the military. But only because the military have paid the NFL to tie the national anthem to the military, and co-opted it for their own purposes in that sense, rather than having the flag stand for the nation as a whole, as it should.

    That the horizontal display of the flag, as happens often, appears to be a direct violation of the flag code, and a whole raft of other issues, make this all a meaningless exercise except to promote nationalism over patriotism, and that the current occupant of the White House sees it as a personal insult, is a reason that this should have just been avoided in the manner the NFL appeared to be doing.


    Of course, Trump couldn't let that stand. Because he's a petulant toddler who would be king.

    Honestly, that's the military being disrespectful not the players.

  • This content has been removed.

  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    You can tell he cares deeply about this issue with how he has no idea that players always stayed in the locker room during the anthem until 2009.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Wait, hold on, the DoD did what?

  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    They paid millions to NFL teams for them to have patriotic displays during the National Anthem as a part of marketing for recruitment.

    Gyral on
    25t9pjnmqicf.jpg
  • edited November 2017
    This content has been removed.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    A player took a knee last night.

    Trump didn't like it overmuch.

    You're muckin' with a G!

    Do not engage the Watermelons.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    MorganV wrote: »
    Gyral wrote: »
    They paid millions to NFL teams for them to have patriot displays during the National Anthem as a part of marketing for recruitment.
    Yup. At least $5M to the NFL, reportedly as high as $10.4M across all sports, but they're not sure exactly where that money was spent. 30% apparently unaccounted for.

    https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

    EDIT : This process stopped in 2015, and the NFL refunded almost $1M in 2016, but it was in place for 6 years, though the funding only covers the last 4-5 or so. There's a link to the McCain/Flake oversight report in the article. Though a quick skim made it look pretty dense.

    Holy shit that is fucked up.

    How is your military even allowed to do stuff like this?

    shryke on
  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    shryke wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Gyral wrote: »
    They paid millions to NFL teams for them to have patriot displays during the National Anthem as a part of marketing for recruitment.
    Yup. At least $5M to the NFL, reportedly as high as $10.4M across all sports, but they're not sure exactly where that money was spent. 30% apparently unaccounted for.

    https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

    EDIT : This process stopped in 2015, and the NFL refunded almost $1M in 2016, but it was in place for 6 years, though the funding only covers the last 4-5 or so. There's a link to the McCain/Flake oversight report in the article. Though a quick skim made it look pretty dense.

    Holy shit that is fucked up.

    How is your military even allowed to do stuff like this?

    Is that really any worse than when they made a first person shooter?

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Gyral wrote: »
    They paid millions to NFL teams for them to have patriot displays during the National Anthem as a part of marketing for recruitment.
    Yup. At least $5M to the NFL, reportedly as high as $10.4M across all sports, but they're not sure exactly where that money was spent. 30% apparently unaccounted for.

    https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

    EDIT : This process stopped in 2015, and the NFL refunded almost $1M in 2016, but it was in place for 6 years, though the funding only covers the last 4-5 or so. There's a link to the McCain/Flake oversight report in the article. Though a quick skim made it look pretty dense.

    Holy shit that is fucked up.

    How is your military even allowed to do stuff like this?

    Because there's no compulsory service, they get to try and sell the patriotic fuck out of it. I still remember the knight fighting the dragon commercial from when I was a kid. It was awesome and then "Marines" pops up. Fuck yeah.

    I'm fine with the entire industry imploding, but it would take way too much self-awareness and concern over medical issues dealing with mental health.

    The protests are excellent, ultimately they're not communicating with a very receptive audience... but I guess that's why they're protests.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    A duck! wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Gyral wrote: »
    They paid millions to NFL teams for them to have patriot displays during the National Anthem as a part of marketing for recruitment.
    Yup. At least $5M to the NFL, reportedly as high as $10.4M across all sports, but they're not sure exactly where that money was spent. 30% apparently unaccounted for.

    https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

    EDIT : This process stopped in 2015, and the NFL refunded almost $1M in 2016, but it was in place for 6 years, though the funding only covers the last 4-5 or so. There's a link to the McCain/Flake oversight report in the article. Though a quick skim made it look pretty dense.

    Holy shit that is fucked up.

    How is your military even allowed to do stuff like this?

    Is that really any worse than when they made a first person shooter?

    I'd say yes because it's far less obvious what is going on.

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Gyral wrote: »
    They paid millions to NFL teams for them to have patriot displays during the National Anthem as a part of marketing for recruitment.
    Yup. At least $5M to the NFL, reportedly as high as $10.4M across all sports, but they're not sure exactly where that money was spent. 30% apparently unaccounted for.

    https://thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

    EDIT : This process stopped in 2015, and the NFL refunded almost $1M in 2016, but it was in place for 6 years, though the funding only covers the last 4-5 or so. There's a link to the McCain/Flake oversight report in the article. Though a quick skim made it look pretty dense.

    Holy shit that is fucked up.

    How is your military even allowed to do stuff like this?

    A lack of laws against propaganda, and an unwillingness to enforce transparency and what little laws there are against propaganda.

  • Frontier Space ManFrontier Space Man Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Don't know why you'd criticize US military recruitment practices. What else would you expect from a country whose military is one if it's greatest assets? You think if you just build it people will come?

    The only reason other countries don't do this is because they don't have to. The United States can always be counted on to be there for them, they don't need to specialize in military power or devote such a massive portion of their GDP to building it up year after year. You should go to some of those weak ass nations and see what passes for a military.

    A deal is a deal, these football players should either stand or fuck off.

    Frontier Space Man on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anywhere in whatever deal you think exists that players must stand considering the nfl doesn't require them to and they're the ones that took the money. nor has the actual army said that they need to stand and they are the ones who paid. just some chucklehead in the oval office and a bunch of racists, who account for nothing.

    Jars on
  • Frontier Space ManFrontier Space Man Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anywhere in whatever deal you think exists that players must stand considering the nfl doesn't require them to and they're the ones that took the money. nor has the actual army said that they need to stand and they are the ones who paid. just some chucklehead in the oval office and a bunch of racists, who account for nothing.

    Where is the deal?

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    I don't know, you're the one saying they need to uphold it. if the nfl and army aren't mandating standing for the anthem it's not an issue and neither are.

  • Frontier Space ManFrontier Space Man Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    I don't know, you're the one saying they need to uphold it. if the nfl and army aren't mandating standing for the anthem it's not an issue and neither are.

    Until we see the deal we should probably not discuss it anymore.

  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anywhere in whatever deal you think exists that players must stand considering the nfl doesn't require them to and they're the ones that took the money. nor has the actual army said that they need to stand and they are the ones who paid. just some chucklehead in the oval office and a bunch of racists, who account for nothing.

    Where is the deal?

    Didn't you bring up the deal? Shouldn't you be the one providing proof since you're the one claiming the players are delinquent on it?

    I ate an engineer
  • Frontier Space ManFrontier Space Man Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anywhere in whatever deal you think exists that players must stand considering the nfl doesn't require them to and they're the ones that took the money. nor has the actual army said that they need to stand and they are the ones who paid. just some chucklehead in the oval office and a bunch of racists, who account for nothing.

    Where is the deal?

    Didn't you bring up the deal? Shouldn't you be the one providing proof since you're the one claiming the players are delinquent on it?

    Nope. Check several posts up on this page and people discuss the deal the DoD made with the NFL.

  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    milski wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anywhere in whatever deal you think exists that players must stand considering the nfl doesn't require them to and they're the ones that took the money. nor has the actual army said that they need to stand and they are the ones who paid. just some chucklehead in the oval office and a bunch of racists, who account for nothing.

    Where is the deal?

    Didn't you bring up the deal? Shouldn't you be the one providing proof since you're the one claiming the players are delinquent on it?

    Nope. Check several posts up on this page and people discuss the deal the DoD made with the NFL.

    You brought up the idea of the deal being with the players, though.

    Milski on
    I ate an engineer
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Mayhaps "why is American patriotism intrinsically linked with militarism" should be it's own thread?

    It certainly is a fascinating subject in its own right

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Don't know why you'd criticize US military recruitment practices. What else would you expect from a country whose military is one if it's greatest assets? You think if you just build it people will come?

    The only reason other countries don't do this is because they don't have to. The United States can always be counted on to be there for them, they don't need to specialize in military power or devote such a massive portion of their GDP to building it up year after year. You should go to some of those weak ass nations and see what passes for a military.

    A deal is a deal, these football players should either stand or fuck off.

    1) The US military only has a recruitment problem for specific, unglamorous MOSs, none of which is served by random acts of nationalism.
    The US has problems recruiting frontline positions, military police, and pilots. They do not have general recruiting problems, they have specific recruiting problems. Those recruiting problems consist largely of the military failing to deal with specific issues relating to those fields that end up causing lifelong issues, and regularly resulting in unemployment or underemployment after service due to them failing to address these issues and others.

    2) The US military is not reliable as it revolves around the whims of political leaders who have wildly different ideas of how to utilize the military.
    If anything the current administration has proven over a single year that the political leadership of the US will ignore or threaten any international treaty, no matter how large or small. The US has also frequently misused and abused international military treaties. Even if the US military could deal with everything in the world, which we can't, I wouldn't trust the political powers that run the US to deal with it well, and neither should anyone else.

    3) The players didn't sign the deal, the NFL did.
    The NFL doesn't give players the option to sign off on deals like this. Even if you ignore that the NFL as an organization simply imposes its will on each of the "franchises" and openly tries to kill competition, pretending like the players had a say in this is ignorant.

    4) Forcing players to stand does nothing for the US military.
    Players standing doesn't directly assist the US military recruitment. What it does is create an environment where Nationalism hides under the banner of patriotism. A player standing doesn't help the people in the military, it helps the Pentagon sell the idea that the military is what makes the US great.

    5) Players kneeling does nothing to the US military, either good or bad
    If a player kneels, veterans don't lose their pensions and soldiers don't lose their lives over it. That happens because the DoD opts to misuse the US military personnel and its funds to assist private contractors who the top people in the DoD and Pentagon will then go on to work for. A player kneeling doesn't do a damn thing to me as a veteran, and it doesn't do a damn thing to anyone else. The only thing it does is spread the message that they feel that they're treated unequally because of their race.

    This whole conflation of the stars and stripes with the military is dangerous for our country, and super dangerous for our military. I lost count of the number of times I got told to do something illegal or wrong by some higher up in the chain of command because "The mission and the country needs this plane to fly". I had a Tech Sergeant tell me to ignore a crack in a landing gear because "We need to fly this plane". We had our shop chief, a Master Sergeant, yell at our shop because he thought too many people were going to sick call to get medication or going to mental health appointments to deal with issues. He hauled us into a back room to yell that dealing with our health issues was malingering and was betraying our country, so that the shop commander wouldn't hear that he was breaking regulations in order to push his nationalistic bent instead of the health of the flight.

    So every time someone says that the flag represents our soldiers, I think about the people who used the symbol of the flag to actively hurt our soldiers.
    Fuck the flag, and fuck the nationalism that people push on it. If the flag is the only thing holding us together then it isn't worth the cloth it's made out of. If the flag is so weak that it will break from the idea of someone not standing for it then it's not a good symbol. The Flag isn't the US and the Flag isn't our military.

  • Frontier Space ManFrontier Space Man Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Don't know why you'd criticize US military recruitment practices. What else would you expect from a country whose military is one if it's greatest assets? You think if you just build it people will come?

    The only reason other countries don't do this is because they don't have to. The United States can always be counted on to be there for them, they don't need to specialize in military power or devote such a massive portion of their GDP to building it up year after year. You should go to some of those weak ass nations and see what passes for a military.

    A deal is a deal, these football players should either stand or fuck off.

    1) The US military only has a recruitment problem for specific, unglamorous MOSs, none of which is served by random acts of nationalism.
    The US has problems recruiting frontline positions, military police, and pilots. They do not have general recruiting problems, they have specific recruiting problems. Those recruiting problems consist largely of the military failing to deal with specific issues relating to those fields that end up causing lifelong issues, and regularly resulting in unemployment or underemployment after service due to them failing to address these issues and others.

    2) The US military is not reliable as it revolves around the whims of political leaders who have wildly different ideas of how to utilize the military.
    If anything the current administration has proven over a single year that the political leadership of the US will ignore or threaten any international treaty, no matter how large or small. The US has also frequently misused and abused international military treaties. Even if the US military could deal with everything in the world, which we can't, I wouldn't trust the political powers that run the US to deal with it well, and neither should anyone else.

    3) The players didn't sign the deal, the NFL did.
    The NFL doesn't give players the option to sign off on deals like this. Even if you ignore that the NFL as an organization simply imposes its will on each of the "franchises" and openly tries to kill competition, pretending like the players had a say in this is ignorant.

    4) Forcing players to stand does nothing for the US military.
    Players standing doesn't directly assist the US military recruitment. What it does is create an environment where Nationalism hides under the banner of patriotism. A player standing doesn't help the people in the military, it helps the Pentagon sell the idea that the military is what makes the US great.

    5) Players kneeling does nothing to the US military, either good or bad
    If a player kneels, veterans don't lose their pensions and soldiers don't lose their lives over it. That happens because the DoD opts to misuse the US military personnel and its funds to assist private contractors who the top people in the DoD and Pentagon will then go on to work for. A player kneeling doesn't do a damn thing to me as a veteran, and it doesn't do a damn thing to anyone else. The only thing it does is spread the message that they feel that they're treated unequally because of their race.

    1) Learn how advertisement works and how an ad fits into a larger scheme. Things are not as simple as "Look at ad -> Join Military". You need constant and sustained exposure across a wide variety of mediums before you get a conversion.

    2) Wrong. The United States is the single most reliable investment because it's massive military power pretty much guarantees it will remain stable and in existence for several hundred years. And if we reach World War 3 levels of conflicts the United States will be a big player and chances are your tiny military won't matter much anyway, the only question you need to ask is whose side are you on.

    3) The players are hired as employees and need to follow rules set by the NFL. Period. They don't get to choose.

    4) That's your opinion.

    5) A player kneeling during an event made to honor the military is a direct insult to the military. If you want to protest racial injustice come to a fucking BLM rally. Oh wait, they won't because these overpaid athletes don't actually give a fuck about getting their hands dirty in real activism.


  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Don't know why you'd criticize US military recruitment practices. What else would you expect from a country whose military is one if it's greatest assets? You think if you just build it people will come?

    The only reason other countries don't do this is because they don't have to. The United States can always be counted on to be there for them, they don't need to specialize in military power or devote such a massive portion of their GDP to building it up year after year. You should go to some of those weak ass nations and see what passes for a military.

    A deal is a deal, these football players should either stand or fuck off.

    1) The US military only has a recruitment problem for specific, unglamorous MOSs, none of which is served by random acts of nationalism.
    The US has problems recruiting frontline positions, military police, and pilots. They do not have general recruiting problems, they have specific recruiting problems. Those recruiting problems consist largely of the military failing to deal with specific issues relating to those fields that end up causing lifelong issues, and regularly resulting in unemployment or underemployment after service due to them failing to address these issues and others.

    2) The US military is not reliable as it revolves around the whims of political leaders who have wildly different ideas of how to utilize the military.
    If anything the current administration has proven over a single year that the political leadership of the US will ignore or threaten any international treaty, no matter how large or small. The US has also frequently misused and abused international military treaties. Even if the US military could deal with everything in the world, which we can't, I wouldn't trust the political powers that run the US to deal with it well, and neither should anyone else.

    3) The players didn't sign the deal, the NFL did.
    The NFL doesn't give players the option to sign off on deals like this. Even if you ignore that the NFL as an organization simply imposes its will on each of the "franchises" and openly tries to kill competition, pretending like the players had a say in this is ignorant.

    4) Forcing players to stand does nothing for the US military.
    Players standing doesn't directly assist the US military recruitment. What it does is create an environment where Nationalism hides under the banner of patriotism. A player standing doesn't help the people in the military, it helps the Pentagon sell the idea that the military is what makes the US great.

    5) Players kneeling does nothing to the US military, either good or bad
    If a player kneels, veterans don't lose their pensions and soldiers don't lose their lives over it. That happens because the DoD opts to misuse the US military personnel and its funds to assist private contractors who the top people in the DoD and Pentagon will then go on to work for. A player kneeling doesn't do a damn thing to me as a veteran, and it doesn't do a damn thing to anyone else. The only thing it does is spread the message that they feel that they're treated unequally because of their race.

    1) Learn how advertisement works and how an ad fits into a larger scheme. Things are not as simple as "Look at ad -> Join Military". You need constant and sustained exposure across a wide variety of mediums before you get a conversion.

    2) Wrong. The United States is the single most reliable investment because it's massive military power pretty much guarantees it will remain stable and in existence for several hundred years. And if we reach World War 3 levels of conflicts the United States will be a big player and chances are your tiny military won't matter much anyway, the only question you need to ask is whose side are you on.

    3) The players are hired as employees and need to follow rules set by the NFL. Period. They don't get to choose.

    4) That's your opinion.

    5) A player kneeling during an event made to honor the military is a direct insult to the military. If you want to protest racial injustice come to a fucking BLM rally. Oh wait, they won't because these overpaid athletes don't actually give a fuck about getting their hands dirty in real activism.


    Football games are not events made to honor the military.

  • Frontier Space ManFrontier Space Man Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Don't know why you'd criticize US military recruitment practices. What else would you expect from a country whose military is one if it's greatest assets? You think if you just build it people will come?

    The only reason other countries don't do this is because they don't have to. The United States can always be counted on to be there for them, they don't need to specialize in military power or devote such a massive portion of their GDP to building it up year after year. You should go to some of those weak ass nations and see what passes for a military.

    A deal is a deal, these football players should either stand or fuck off.

    1) The US military only has a recruitment problem for specific, unglamorous MOSs, none of which is served by random acts of nationalism.
    The US has problems recruiting frontline positions, military police, and pilots. They do not have general recruiting problems, they have specific recruiting problems. Those recruiting problems consist largely of the military failing to deal with specific issues relating to those fields that end up causing lifelong issues, and regularly resulting in unemployment or underemployment after service due to them failing to address these issues and others.

    2) The US military is not reliable as it revolves around the whims of political leaders who have wildly different ideas of how to utilize the military.
    If anything the current administration has proven over a single year that the political leadership of the US will ignore or threaten any international treaty, no matter how large or small. The US has also frequently misused and abused international military treaties. Even if the US military could deal with everything in the world, which we can't, I wouldn't trust the political powers that run the US to deal with it well, and neither should anyone else.

    3) The players didn't sign the deal, the NFL did.
    The NFL doesn't give players the option to sign off on deals like this. Even if you ignore that the NFL as an organization simply imposes its will on each of the "franchises" and openly tries to kill competition, pretending like the players had a say in this is ignorant.

    4) Forcing players to stand does nothing for the US military.
    Players standing doesn't directly assist the US military recruitment. What it does is create an environment where Nationalism hides under the banner of patriotism. A player standing doesn't help the people in the military, it helps the Pentagon sell the idea that the military is what makes the US great.

    5) Players kneeling does nothing to the US military, either good or bad
    If a player kneels, veterans don't lose their pensions and soldiers don't lose their lives over it. That happens because the DoD opts to misuse the US military personnel and its funds to assist private contractors who the top people in the DoD and Pentagon will then go on to work for. A player kneeling doesn't do a damn thing to me as a veteran, and it doesn't do a damn thing to anyone else. The only thing it does is spread the message that they feel that they're treated unequally because of their race.

    1) Learn how advertisement works and how an ad fits into a larger scheme. Things are not as simple as "Look at ad -> Join Military". You need constant and sustained exposure across a wide variety of mediums before you get a conversion.

    2) Wrong. The United States is the single most reliable investment because it's massive military power pretty much guarantees it will remain stable and in existence for several hundred years. And if we reach World War 3 levels of conflicts the United States will be a big player and chances are your tiny military won't matter much anyway, the only question you need to ask is whose side are you on.

    3) The players are hired as employees and need to follow rules set by the NFL. Period. They don't get to choose.

    4) That's your opinion.

    5) A player kneeling during an event made to honor the military is a direct insult to the military. If you want to protest racial injustice come to a fucking BLM rally. Oh wait, they won't because these overpaid athletes don't actually give a fuck about getting their hands dirty in real activism.


    Football games are not events made to honor the military.

    Clearly we are talking about the part where the national anthem is played and everybody stands.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    I don’t feel insulted in the slightest.

    Not sure what “real” activism consists of but I’m content including activities that garner a lot of attention to a good cause, even if a bunch of people attempt to deny its purpose, at the risk of their careers as Kaepernick has demonstrated.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Don't know why you'd criticize US military recruitment practices. What else would you expect from a country whose military is one if it's greatest assets? You think if you just build it people will come?

    The only reason other countries don't do this is because they don't have to. The United States can always be counted on to be there for them, they don't need to specialize in military power or devote such a massive portion of their GDP to building it up year after year. You should go to some of those weak ass nations and see what passes for a military.

    A deal is a deal, these football players should either stand or fuck off.

    1) The US military only has a recruitment problem for specific, unglamorous MOSs, none of which is served by random acts of nationalism.
    The US has problems recruiting frontline positions, military police, and pilots. They do not have general recruiting problems, they have specific recruiting problems. Those recruiting problems consist largely of the military failing to deal with specific issues relating to those fields that end up causing lifelong issues, and regularly resulting in unemployment or underemployment after service due to them failing to address these issues and others.

    2) The US military is not reliable as it revolves around the whims of political leaders who have wildly different ideas of how to utilize the military.
    If anything the current administration has proven over a single year that the political leadership of the US will ignore or threaten any international treaty, no matter how large or small. The US has also frequently misused and abused international military treaties. Even if the US military could deal with everything in the world, which we can't, I wouldn't trust the political powers that run the US to deal with it well, and neither should anyone else.

    3) The players didn't sign the deal, the NFL did.
    The NFL doesn't give players the option to sign off on deals like this. Even if you ignore that the NFL as an organization simply imposes its will on each of the "franchises" and openly tries to kill competition, pretending like the players had a say in this is ignorant.

    4) Forcing players to stand does nothing for the US military.
    Players standing doesn't directly assist the US military recruitment. What it does is create an environment where Nationalism hides under the banner of patriotism. A player standing doesn't help the people in the military, it helps the Pentagon sell the idea that the military is what makes the US great.

    5) Players kneeling does nothing to the US military, either good or bad
    If a player kneels, veterans don't lose their pensions and soldiers don't lose their lives over it. That happens because the DoD opts to misuse the US military personnel and its funds to assist private contractors who the top people in the DoD and Pentagon will then go on to work for. A player kneeling doesn't do a damn thing to me as a veteran, and it doesn't do a damn thing to anyone else. The only thing it does is spread the message that they feel that they're treated unequally because of their race.

    1) Learn how advertisement works and how an ad fits into a larger scheme. Things are not as simple as "Look at ad -> Join Military". You need constant and sustained exposure across a wide variety of mediums before you get a conversion.

    2) Wrong. The United States is the single most reliable investment because it's massive military power pretty much guarantees it will remain stable and in existence for several hundred years. And if we reach World War 3 levels of conflicts the United States will be a big player and chances are your tiny military won't matter much anyway, the only question you need to ask is whose side are you on.

    3) The players are hired as employees and need to follow rules set by the NFL. Period. They don't get to choose.

    4) That's your opinion.

    5) A player kneeling during an event made to honor the military is a direct insult to the military. If you want to protest racial injustice come to a fucking BLM rally. Oh wait, they won't because these overpaid athletes don't actually give a fuck about getting their hands dirty in real activism.


    Football games are not events made to honor the military.

    Clearly we are talking about the part where the national anthem is played and everybody stands.

    That's to show respect for the country not the military

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    I can get not totally respecting the country right now

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    I don’t feel insulted in the slightest.

    Not sure what “real” activism consists of but I’m content including activities that garner a lot of attention to a good cause, even if a bunch of people attempt to deny its purpose, at the risk of their careers as Kaepernick has demonstrated.

    Also as has been pointed out earlier in the thread, the kneeling is a compromise position he took with advice from a vet.

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