Like, you really wanna show respect for the military? Donate a holiday dinner to a military family. A lot of the low ranking service members with families are on food stamps. Or go help out at a homeless shelter where there will inevitably be a number of veterans. Do something that actually benefits them.
Standing for the flag does jack for me. I value other people doing that as much as their magnetic yellow support the troops ribbons made in China.
If some NFL players can create something of actual value by kneeling during the anthem then more power to them.
5) A player kneeling during an event made to honor the military is a direct insult to the military. If you want to protest racial injustice come to a fucking BLM rally. Oh wait, they won't because these overpaid athletes don't actually give a fuck about getting their hands dirty in real activism.
*activism white people approve of
nevermind all the other things that happened this year like a superbowl winning receiver quitting football to do activism, hundreds of players supporting their communities with their foundations like marshawn lynch, and a quarterback getting blackballed from the sport for having the guts to say there's a problem with policing and minorities
what exactly are you doing to support the military anyway? or do you just want to yell at black people trying to voice their opinions in one of the few platforms they have
Don't know why you'd criticize US military recruitment practices. What else would you expect from a country whose military is one if it's greatest assets? You think if you just build it people will come?
The only reason other countries don't do this is because they don't have to. The United States can always be counted on to be there for them, they don't need to specialize in military power or devote such a massive portion of their GDP to building it up year after year. You should go to some of those weak ass nations and see what passes for a military.
A deal is a deal, these football players should either stand or fuck off.
5) A player kneeling during an event made to honor the military is a direct insult to the military. If you want to protest racial injustice come to a fucking BLM rally. Oh wait, they won't because these overpaid athletes don't actually give a fuck about getting their hands dirty in real activism.
Football games are not events made to honor the military.
Clearly we are talking about the part where the national anthem is played and everybody stands.
Yes, this attitude and position of your is in fact EXACTLY why what the US military was doing was so fucked up.
The US military explicitly using a fucking sports game to try and confuse military fetishism with patriotism and/or just plain old vague traditional respect for a nation is deeply troubling and does not lead good places.
A flag or an anthem is a symbol of the country, not it's military and Kaepernick's protest is against one and not the other.
PS - you might want to look up what guys like Kaepernick do with their time before you start spouting off about how they don't get their hands dirty in real activism
They paid millions to NFL teams for them to have patriot displays during the National Anthem as a part of marketing for recruitment.
Yup. At least $5M to the NFL, reportedly as high as $10.4M across all sports, but they're not sure exactly where that money was spent. 30% apparently unaccounted for.
EDIT : This process stopped in 2015, and the NFL refunded almost $1M in 2016, but it was in place for 6 years, though the funding only covers the last 4-5 or so. There's a link to the McCain/Flake oversight report in the article. Though a quick skim made it look pretty dense.
Holy shit that is fucked up.
How is your military even allowed to do stuff like this?
Is that really any worse than when they made a first person shooter?
They made their own movie propaganda, and there's Michael Bay movies.
Don't know why you'd criticize US military recruitment practices. What else would you expect from a country whose military is one if it's greatest assets? You think if you just build it people will come?
The only reason other countries don't do this is because they don't have to. The United States can always be counted on to be there for them, they don't need to specialize in military power or devote such a massive portion of their GDP to building it up year after year. You should go to some of those weak ass nations and see what passes for a military.
A deal is a deal, these football players should either stand or fuck off.
1) The US military only has a recruitment problem for specific, unglamorous MOSs, none of which is served by random acts of nationalism.
The US has problems recruiting frontline positions, military police, and pilots. They do not have general recruiting problems, they have specific recruiting problems. Those recruiting problems consist largely of the military failing to deal with specific issues relating to those fields that end up causing lifelong issues, and regularly resulting in unemployment or underemployment after service due to them failing to address these issues and others.
2) The US military is not reliable as it revolves around the whims of political leaders who have wildly different ideas of how to utilize the military.
If anything the current administration has proven over a single year that the political leadership of the US will ignore or threaten any international treaty, no matter how large or small. The US has also frequently misused and abused international military treaties. Even if the US military could deal with everything in the world, which we can't, I wouldn't trust the political powers that run the US to deal with it well, and neither should anyone else.
3) The players didn't sign the deal, the NFL did.
The NFL doesn't give players the option to sign off on deals like this. Even if you ignore that the NFL as an organization simply imposes its will on each of the "franchises" and openly tries to kill competition, pretending like the players had a say in this is ignorant.
4) Forcing players to stand does nothing for the US military.
Players standing doesn't directly assist the US military recruitment. What it does is create an environment where Nationalism hides under the banner of patriotism. A player standing doesn't help the people in the military, it helps the Pentagon sell the idea that the military is what makes the US great.
5) Players kneeling does nothing to the US military, either good or bad
If a player kneels, veterans don't lose their pensions and soldiers don't lose their lives over it. That happens because the DoD opts to misuse the US military personnel and its funds to assist private contractors who the top people in the DoD and Pentagon will then go on to work for. A player kneeling doesn't do a damn thing to me as a veteran, and it doesn't do a damn thing to anyone else. The only thing it does is spread the message that they feel that they're treated unequally because of their race.
1) Learn how advertisement works and how an ad fits into a larger scheme. Things are not as simple as "Look at ad -> Join Military". You need constant and sustained exposure across a wide variety of mediums before you get a conversion.
2) Wrong. The United States is the single most reliable investment because it's massive military power pretty much guarantees it will remain stable and in existence for several hundred years. And if we reach World War 3 levels of conflicts the United States will be a big player and chances are your tiny military won't matter much anyway, the only question you need to ask is whose side are you on.
3) The players are hired as employees and need to follow rules set by the NFL. Period. They don't get to choose.
4) That's your opinion.
5) A player kneeling during an event made to honor the military is a direct insult to the military. If you want to protest racial injustice come to a fucking BLM rally. Oh wait, they won't because these overpaid athletes don't actually give a fuck about getting their hands dirty in real activism.
Football games are not events made to honor the military.
Clearly we are talking about the part where the national anthem is played and everybody stands.
And the concessions stands stop serving food and beer, and the rest rooms close, so that everyone can stand and honor the flag. Taking a piss or buying a beer while its playing seems a lot more disrespectful than taking a knee.
I don't know, you're the one saying they need to uphold it. if the nfl and army aren't mandating standing for the anthem it's not an issue and neither are.
Until we see the deal we should probably not discuss it anymore.
Nice try at shutting down discussion, dude.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Don't know why you'd criticize US military recruitment practices. What else would you expect from a country whose military is one if it's greatest assets? You think if you just build it people will come?
The only reason other countries don't do this is because they don't have to. The United States can always be counted on to be there for them, they don't need to specialize in military power or devote such a massive portion of their GDP to building it up year after year. You should go to some of those weak ass nations and see what passes for a military.
A deal is a deal, these football players should either stand or fuck off.
1) The US military only has a recruitment problem for specific, unglamorous MOSs, none of which is served by random acts of nationalism.
The US has problems recruiting frontline positions, military police, and pilots. They do not have general recruiting problems, they have specific recruiting problems. Those recruiting problems consist largely of the military failing to deal with specific issues relating to those fields that end up causing lifelong issues, and regularly resulting in unemployment or underemployment after service due to them failing to address these issues and others.
2) The US military is not reliable as it revolves around the whims of political leaders who have wildly different ideas of how to utilize the military.
If anything the current administration has proven over a single year that the political leadership of the US will ignore or threaten any international treaty, no matter how large or small. The US has also frequently misused and abused international military treaties. Even if the US military could deal with everything in the world, which we can't, I wouldn't trust the political powers that run the US to deal with it well, and neither should anyone else.
3) The players didn't sign the deal, the NFL did.
The NFL doesn't give players the option to sign off on deals like this. Even if you ignore that the NFL as an organization simply imposes its will on each of the "franchises" and openly tries to kill competition, pretending like the players had a say in this is ignorant.
4) Forcing players to stand does nothing for the US military.
Players standing doesn't directly assist the US military recruitment. What it does is create an environment where Nationalism hides under the banner of patriotism. A player standing doesn't help the people in the military, it helps the Pentagon sell the idea that the military is what makes the US great.
5) Players kneeling does nothing to the US military, either good or bad
If a player kneels, veterans don't lose their pensions and soldiers don't lose their lives over it. That happens because the DoD opts to misuse the US military personnel and its funds to assist private contractors who the top people in the DoD and Pentagon will then go on to work for. A player kneeling doesn't do a damn thing to me as a veteran, and it doesn't do a damn thing to anyone else. The only thing it does is spread the message that they feel that they're treated unequally because of their race.
1) Learn how advertisement works and how an ad fits into a larger scheme. Things are not as simple as "Look at ad -> Join Military". You need constant and sustained exposure across a wide variety of mediums before you get a conversion.
2) Wrong. The United States is the single most reliable investment because it's massive military power pretty much guarantees it will remain stable and in existence for several hundred years. And if we reach World War 3 levels of conflicts the United States will be a big player and chances are your tiny military won't matter much anyway, the only question you need to ask is whose side are you on.
3) The players are hired as employees and need to follow rules set by the NFL. Period. They don't get to choose.
4) That's your opinion.
5) A player kneeling during an event made to honor the military is a direct insult to the military. If you want to protest racial injustice come to a fucking BLM rally. Oh wait, they won't because these overpaid athletes don't actually give a fuck about getting their hands dirty in real activism.
I don't expect this to change any of your bad opinions but this was pretty amusing considering this went across my feeds the other day.
Civil rights activist and former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick was honored Thursday at the "Unthanksgiving Day" event at Alcatraz, also known as the Indigenous People's Sunrise Gathering.
The annual event was started in 1975 in honor of the 1969-71 occupation of Alcatraz by 89 activists. The protest sought to replace the island's prison with a Native American cultural center and school, placing pressure on the United States government to honor The Treaty of Fort Laramie. The event is connected to the National Day of Mourning, a reaction against the accepted pro-settler celebrations of Thanksgiving in the United States.
SI story about what Colin Kaepernick has been doing quietly.
Personally, I think this his how charity is meant to be done. People actually putting in effort and energy, quietly, without any self-aggrandizement. I respect this much more than billionaires giving away millions in the public limelight. But that's just me.
not to disparage what kaepernick is doing but I don't particularly like the charity angle of this because haters tend to focus on "but what are they doing?" and that athletes need to take care of the issue through charitable work, which isn't correct. all the charity in the world isn't going to stop police shootings. it puts the burden for action on the wrong people.
"I'm pretty patriotic, and it didn't sit right with me," Smith told the Star. "To me, when they take a knee during the national anthem, it’s not respecting the national anthem or our country."
"Our government isn’t perfect, but it’s still the best country in the world, and I think we need to be respectful of it," he said. Smith says the law was inspired by his attendance at a Sept. 24 Colts game before which multiple Colts players kneeled during the anthem.
Nothing quite so patriotic as crafting laws specifically to harm those you disagree with.
An Indiana lawmaker is filing legislation that would require the Indianapolis Colts to offer fans refunds if Colts players kneel during the national anthem at home games.
Rep. Milo Smith, R-Columbus, said his bill would allow fans who feel disrespected by the kneeling to ask for a refund during the first quarter.
"To me when they take a knee during the national anthem, it’s not respecting the national anthem or our country," Smith said. "Our government isn’t perfect, but it's still the best country in the world and I think we need to be respectful of it."
[...]
Jane Henegar, executive director of ACLU Indiana, said his proposal could be a constitutional violation.
"In effect by passing the law, government would be weighing in...and fining political speech by the Indianapolis Colts," Henegar said. "It seems like the worst thing that could happen is government weighing in and trying to control in any direction the political speech of private actors."
Smith defended the legality of his bill, noting that it doesn't stop someone from kneeling.
Just like the laws about jaywalking don't really stop me from jaywalking.
"I'm pretty patriotic, and it didn't sit right with me," Smith told the Star. "To me, when they take a knee during the national anthem, it’s not respecting the national anthem or our country."
"Our government isn’t perfect, but it’s still the best country in the world, and I think we need to be respectful of it," he said. Smith says the law was inspired by his attendance at a Sept. 24 Colts game before which multiple Colts players kneeled during the anthem.
Nothing quite so patriotic as crafting laws specifically to harm those you disagree with.
do these fucking people listen to the words coming out of their mouth? How is kneeling disrespectful? And if it isnt perfect, maybe it also isnt the best country in the world, and maybe things can be improved? And maybe this is how we do it?
Also these fucking guys and their small government and free market, then they pull this, the most petty and specified anti-free market, big government bs you can think of comes out of these assholes sanctimonious mouths
A law that directly targets a single employer in a state? Yeah that's just a waste of taxpayer money for the pure sake of scoring points with the base.
A law that directly targets a single employer in a state? Yeah that's just a waste of taxpayer money for the pure sake of scoring points with the base.
Our vice president spent way more taxpayer money flying to Indianapolis (with the press pool they told not to even get off the bus) just to walk out of a game as a publicity stunt, so this doesn’t surprise me at all.
"I'm pretty patriotic, and it didn't sit right with me," Smith told the Star. "To me, when they take a knee during the national anthem, it’s not respecting the national anthem or our country."
"Our government isn’t perfect, but it’s still the best country in the world, and I think we need to be respectful of it," he said. Smith says the law was inspired by his attendance at a Sept. 24 Colts game before which multiple Colts players kneeled during the anthem.
Nothing quite so patriotic as crafting laws specifically to harm those you disagree with.
do these fucking people listen to the words coming out of their mouth? How is kneeling disrespectful? And if it isnt perfect, maybe it also isnt the best country in the world, and maybe things can be improved? And maybe this is how we do it?
Also these fucking guys and their small government and free market, then they pull this, the most petty and specified anti-free market, big government bs you can think of comes out of these assholes sanctimonious mouths
im so fucking exhausted by their rank hypocrisy
Crazy anti-first-amendment bills are the domain of GOP state legislatures (like the wave of "you're allowed to run protestors over with your car" bills earlier this year). They're there to rabble-rouse and little more.
Posts
Standing for the flag does jack for me. I value other people doing that as much as their magnetic yellow support the troops ribbons made in China.
If some NFL players can create something of actual value by kneeling during the anthem then more power to them.
The National Anthem is a shitty theme song that doesn't need protecting.
cool cats and kittens
I think I'm going to whip up a thread for "Patriotism and Respecting the Troops" tonight after dinner
i think that's gonna be a fun one
*activism white people approve of
nevermind all the other things that happened this year like a superbowl winning receiver quitting football to do activism, hundreds of players supporting their communities with their foundations like marshawn lynch, and a quarterback getting blackballed from the sport for having the guts to say there's a problem with policing and minorities
what exactly are you doing to support the military anyway? or do you just want to yell at black people trying to voice their opinions in one of the few platforms they have
Yes, this attitude and position of your is in fact EXACTLY why what the US military was doing was so fucked up.
The US military explicitly using a fucking sports game to try and confuse military fetishism with patriotism and/or just plain old vague traditional respect for a nation is deeply troubling and does not lead good places.
A flag or an anthem is a symbol of the country, not it's military and Kaepernick's protest is against one and not the other.
PS - you might want to look up what guys like Kaepernick do with their time before you start spouting off about how they don't get their hands dirty in real activism
They made their own movie propaganda, and there's Michael Bay movies.
And the concessions stands stop serving food and beer, and the rest rooms close, so that everyone can stand and honor the flag. Taking a piss or buying a beer while its playing seems a lot more disrespectful than taking a knee.
Nice try at shutting down discussion, dude.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I don't expect this to change any of your bad opinions but this was pretty amusing considering this went across my feeds the other day.
https://www.thefader.com/2017/11/24/colin-kaepernick-unthanksgiving-alcatraz
also fuck telling people of colour whether their activism is "real" or not no matter what they do in their time off
I dont care if they use their time off to sit on their ass or be with their families or whatever, fuck this impossible metric for "real activism"
Arguing on internet forums.
SI story about what Colin Kaepernick has been doing quietly.
Personally, I think this his how charity is meant to be done. People actually putting in effort and energy, quietly, without any self-aggrandizement. I respect this much more than billionaires giving away millions in the public limelight. But that's just me.
http://www.wdrb.com/story/37121613/papa-johns-founder-out-as-ceo-weeks-after-nfl-comments
get fuuuuucked john.
So, pending sexual assault allegations coming in 3..2..1...
Nothing quite so patriotic as crafting laws specifically to harm those you disagree with.
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Do not engage the Watermelons.
George Washington pictured here, by 2017 logic he's apparently telling God to go fuck himself.
do these fucking people listen to the words coming out of their mouth? How is kneeling disrespectful? And if it isnt perfect, maybe it also isnt the best country in the world, and maybe things can be improved? And maybe this is how we do it?
Also these fucking guys and their small government and free market, then they pull this, the most petty and specified anti-free market, big government bs you can think of comes out of these assholes sanctimonious mouths
im so fucking exhausted by their rank hypocrisy
Easy peasy!
Do not engage the Watermelons.
Or, more likely, a judge strikes it down a fraction of a second after it's signed.
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Our vice president spent way more taxpayer money flying to Indianapolis (with the press pool they told not to even get off the bus) just to walk out of a game as a publicity stunt, so this doesn’t surprise me at all.
Crazy anti-first-amendment bills are the domain of GOP state legislatures (like the wave of "you're allowed to run protestors over with your car" bills earlier this year). They're there to rabble-rouse and little more.