if the rewards were more consistent though, i might feel differently
i just don't have the care to put in 40 hours a week of grinding to maybe get what i want
Tokens should have solved this. Should have.
My issue with tokens is that they are being used completely backwards from other games. Tokens are almost always used to alleviate RNG. Like in MMOs you get random drops per encounter, sometimes not getting a drop at all. Much like the current Leviathan loot system. But then in every other MMO I've played with tokens, they are there to take to a vendor and buy what you want. They exist as a way to say "I get that RNG sucks and maybe you didn't get what you wanted or anything at all, here is a guarantee that after some time you will get that thing." It takes away the sting of being screwed by RNG, because every token drop brings you closer to guarantee of getting the thing you want.
Tokens being used as another RNG reward system is just stupid and they need to get their act together:
Well, they could do it. All the necessary systems are in place, vendors, markets, tokens, items. We can already trade glimmer for items, it's not a huge jump in logic to switch that currency for tokens and those items for legendaries.
So at this point, it is a conscious effort not to do it. So, bungie says fuck you, and I say fuck you back.
Lilnoobs on
0
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
the idea that a game developer having a different idea of what works, or what they want a game to be, as being a "fuck you" is pretty silly
While on the shitter this morning, I was thinking about Destiny. It's definitely not the disappointment D1 was (and Taken King helped that game a lot), but it still confuses me.
Like why can I get "faction" items that Nessus / Failsafe has from other sources? That's one of the big reasons a lot of us got everything so fast, I feel, that nothing was specific to certain activities (except Iron Banner, and the weapons were re-skins....).
Like if Uriel's Gift was only found on Nessus, etc....
They do this for some reason with Vanguard loot, Ikora loot and Crucible/Banshee loot. Those are not available from other sources. Planetary armor is unique to the planet vendor, but the guns aren't.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
i do think the expectation of getting everything on the first go is a bit excessive, though
i never really had a problem with getting a few pieces each time before, but i think it was also a lot more clear in D1 that's what you should expect
Yeah, the difference here is hope denied.
In Destiny 1 IB, if you wanted say... the hunter gauntlet and it wasn't offered, well that was that. The next time it comes around, it's there. You put in your 60 games to get the rank required to get it, and you have it.
In Destiny 2 IB, if you wanted that same gauntlet, you had the possibility of getting it. Now, you can put in your 60 games and still not get it: therein lies the problem. Perhaps next time you can try again. But the chance of getting it assuming the loot format of IB remains the same remains the same.
While the full on lottery ticket type gameplay works for the majority, it doesn't for everyone. The time can be invested elsewhere. IDK.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I think that this IB has been hands down the worst in destiny entire history by a large margin.
I might enjoy it more if my win rate weren't 36%. solo queue is brutal. My normal control win rate is 55%
Imbalanced games leads to lots of spawn kills and people leaving and being loaded into a losing match with only a little time left just in time to get supered.
Yeah... with the passing of the Iron Banner the dedicated control playlist, I think I've played enough (~200H now) to realize for sure that Destiny 2 just isn't for me. The changes to the crucible are actively hostile toward solo queuing, I can't pick the game type I want, and the meta is just boring. Maybe after the PC release and more months of "data collection" things will actually change.
Collecting sets of gear, an activity that I enjoy doing in all games is even harder now with the limited vault, and I can't even sort the items into something coherent without resorting to a third party site and a spreadsheet. One of the changes that I liked the most gets sandbagged by consumables and further restricted inventory size. Why they would apply such F2P-tier restrictions and not even offer inventory expansions to alleviate that is baffling to me.
Anyhoo, finished off my IB matches. Really ran out of interest/energy or whatever when I got to my hunter. First match was just the worst. Efficiency was just abyssmal. But the second match I finished all of the challenges in a single game. Had a weird bug where I popped a bright engram, and the jarring reminder that there is an eververse store to buy things remained on my screen for an entire life... which was annoying.
Last batch of turnins got no gauntlet, and possibly 5 short of another turn in, so I have to go back and just round that out. but then it dropped me just now while loading with a bat error? IDK. Trying again now. But eh.
edit: whoops. Almost forgot 90% of the matches playing to time.
Oh, I know the answer to that! That's because of prior gen consoles holding D2 back.
"We had a choice, leave the Vault as-is, or find some kind of compromise to enable it safely," said Bungie's Brad Fish, engineering lead for UI. "We weighed the options, with player feedback in mind, and decided to move forward with the expansion by disabling the item comparison feature within the Vault on PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360."
wait..
Tokens should have solved this. Should have.
Yeah. There are so many "should haves" in this game I really think whoever is making the game design decisions is incompetent. They have great gunplay, great environments, great grimoire lore to leverage, a really good raid (IMO), and a large active playerbase from D1, and a space magic. How do you fuck up everything when starting with that? Holy shit HOW DO YOU FUCK UP EVERYTHING ELSE?
the idea that a game developer having a different idea of what works, or what they want a game to be, as being a "fuck you" is pretty silly
Sure, in a vacuum, I would agree. Luckily, none of us live in a vacuum. Given the current context of game design, MMO's and successful loot grinds, they are reverting back to an old failed paradigm and steering clear from an established and current practice. Some might call this "bucking the trend" and that's fine inherently, but this bucking the trend ruins the experience for the consumer.
If a car manufacturer decided to make a car that did 10 miles to the galloon because they felt like it would be a "good design decision", it would certainly be a large fuck you to consumers. Sure, some people would like it and claim all hail new jesus car king and such, but in the overall context it is a rather anachronistic design decision and one that does not favor consumers. This is pretty similar here, they are pretending the last 15 years of MMO and loot grind hasn't happened and Bungie thinks their "unique" design decisions are somehow "good".
But generally yes, I see people who enter a new field and buck all previous knowledge in that field as a large fuck you to the field and the people who exist within it, too. So my fuck you scale is probably different than most.
Lilnoobs on
+6
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
i do think the expectation of getting everything on the first go is a bit excessive, though
i never really had a problem with getting a few pieces each time before, but i think it was also a lot more clear in D1 that's what you should expect
Yeah, the difference here is hope denied.
In Destiny 1 IB, if you wanted say... the hunter gauntlet and it wasn't offered, well that was that. The next time it comes around, it's there. You put in your 60 games to get the rank required to get it, and you have it.
In Destiny 2 IB, if you wanted that same gauntlet, you had the possibility of getting it. Now, you can put in your 60 games and still not get it: therein lies the problem. Perhaps next time you can try again. But the chance of getting it assuming the loot format of IB remains the same remains the same.
While the full on lottery ticket type gameplay works for the majority, it doesn't for everyone. The time can be invested elsewhere. IDK.
Right. I got a whole set of Titan armor, all but cloak on hunter and not quite half the warlock stuff, along with all the weapons (several times over). Now, could I have done that in one IB previously? No. But at the same time I got lucky enough with my drops (and got an absurd amount of ranks, 45ish across all my characters). I could just as easily not completed a single set or missed out on a gun I wanted. I didn't even play yesterday, as I passed out kinda early, but I might have gotten the Hunter cloak and the rest of the warlock armor. Or, maybe not, cause RNG. The thing that taints people's experience is that even though it is possible to get it all in one go, it is also possible to not get it for 2,3,4 attempts at IB or maybe even ever. Now of course that is an extremely small chance, but it still leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouths.
There are a few things left in D2 that I need to complete. I'm on the last step of the Rat King quest. I would like to knock out a prestige Nightfall or the prestige raid to say I've done it.
But for the most part I don't have much of a desire to log in right now. I'm OK with that, though. The game isn't going anywhere, I'm hopeful that it will get better and address a lot of the complaints that I and others in the community have.
I'm pleased I didn't preorder the expansions. This will let me look at the reviews of Curse of Osiris to see if anything is addressed.
Honestly the fact that I just bought another shooter so I could have some fun and relaxing multiplayer to play is crazy to me. I never would have expected that. I thought D2 would be like D1 for me and be enough for all my gaming "needs." But I'm ok that it's not. It never had to be and maybe it's unfair of me to have saddled it with those expectations. I've certainly gotten my money's worth out of D1, and I've had a great time doing raids and Trials with people here.
I'm at least logging on tonight to buy that sexy exotic ship I've been waiting on.
To say I’m a bit jaded would be an understatement. I’m calling it quits on this months IB with zero armor pieces. Interestingly enough I’m going to be pissed if they recycle the armor again for the next IB as that to me would be exceedingly lazy and unrewarding to those who had better fortune than I. TLDR Fuck The Token System.
I have a friend who turned in 70+ packages and he's still missing the helmet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My son turned in about 15 and only got the chest piece and warlock bond. Last night he turned in enough to get 3 packages. Not only did he not get anything he hadn't seen before, but 2 of them were the same thing (more bonds, which he got 5 of altogether). He turned off his Xbox in disgust and told me he was done with destiny for a while, including not running the raid this week. That's a big deal since he hasn't completed it as he's been gone on weekends the last few weeks.
Damn, It took me 38 to get a full set and I thought I was unlucky. Feel your pain man
also this guy (that is a ton of games)
64 packages total for me to get a full Titan set (16), full Hunter set (34) and 3/5 on the Warlock (14) plus all the weapons many many times over. Clearly I got lucky compared to many people. I just treated IB as a chance to practice PvP (as I suck at it) but that was 271 games played over many, many hours...
then there's the truth:
But you still played.. activision got their numbers...shareholders happy.
Also this guy (assuming he's not lying):
12 Packages, Full set of Titan gear.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I think there's 100% something to that "hope denied" thought because I don't know what Iron Banner ya'll are remembering but this one was a goddamn fountain of loot compared to the way it used to work. The thought that people are upset about not getting full sets of armor from the first ever Iron Banner in this game is breaking my brain, you used to have to play and play and play for that stuff. I'm not trying to call anyone out specifically but what exactly do you guys want? Would you seriously be happier if you'd gotten a full set of armor and all of the guns from the very first event?
And yeah, dupe guns in this game suck because they're all the same, but it wasn't any better getting a dupe with a bad roll and either keeping it for infusion fuel or sharding it to wait for the next better one. Or worse, getting nothing at all, or having it be an IB where the guns you hated were the featured guns so they were all that would drop post match and you got to shard your sixth Binding Blaze.
There's a ton of salt about this game that I don't understand. If anything it's too generous with loot and people are still complaining non-stop about the loot systems. I can only do the most cursory flyby on reddit because of the insane people there and I don't want to get to this point here but ya'll are bumming me the fuck out. I just want to shoot mans with chill friends.
Also I want to love Sentinel but this kind of thing makes me crazy:
Oh, insightful. Glad I responded and explained my thought process to your "your opinion is silly" argument. I understand you completely now.
you just used more words to say the same thing
you disagree with a decision and choose to take it as a personal affront to your dignity
that's silly
i'm not saying they can't do better, but no one's going to listen to your complaints if you're coming at them like they've made their choices specifically to insult you
I think there's 100% something to that "hope denied" thought because I don't know what Iron Banner ya'll are remembering but this one was a goddamn fountain of loot compared to the way it used to work. The thought that people are upset about not getting full sets of armor from the first ever Iron Banner in this game is breaking my brain, you used to have to play and play and play for that stuff. I'm not trying to call anyone out specifically but what exactly do you guys want? Would you seriously be happier if you'd gotten a full set of armor and all of the guns from the very first event?
And yeah, dupe guns in this game suck because they're all the same, but it wasn't any better getting a dupe with a bad roll and either keeping it for infusion fuel or sharding it to wait for the next better one. Or worse, getting nothing at all, or having it be an IB where the guns you hated were the featured guns so they were all that would drop post match and you got to shard your sixth Binding Blaze.
There's a ton of salt about this game that I don't understand. If anything it's too generous with loot and people are still complaining non-stop about the loot systems. I can only do the most cursory flyby on reddit because of the insane people there and I don't want to get to this point here but ya'll are bumming me the fuck out. I just want to shoot mans with chill friends.
Also I want to love Sentinel but this kind of thing makes me crazy:
yeah, like at the same time i am disappointed with the way iron banner worked, i was also this weekend grinding out zone tokens to get sets of armor and shaders
but the difference to me is, i think, that while i know the results are random, i can do zone tokens in so many different ways, most of which are actually fun
IB is a solo queue slog if no one's around when i have time
Faction Rally was literally running a single lost sector over and over and over until i couldn't stand doing it anymore because doing it any other way was so incredibly inefficient there's absolutely no way it would have been worth the time
i think what i'm saying is games should be fun and parts of D2 are still quite fun to me, but IB and Faction Rally were big fart noises
I think there's 100% something to that "hope denied" thought because I don't know what Iron Banner ya'll are remembering but this one was a goddamn fountain of loot compared to the way it used to work. The thought that people are upset about not getting full sets of armor from the first ever Iron Banner in this game is breaking my brain, you used to have to play and play and play for that stuff. I'm not trying to call anyone out specifically but what exactly do you guys want? Would you seriously be happier if you'd gotten a full set of armor and all of the guns from the very first event?
And yeah, dupe guns in this game suck because they're all the same, but it wasn't any better getting a dupe with a bad roll and either keeping it for infusion fuel or sharding it to wait for the next better one. Or worse, getting nothing at all, or having it be an IB where the guns you hated were the featured guns so they were all that would drop post match and you got to shard your sixth Binding Blaze.
There's a ton of salt about this game that I don't understand. If anything it's too generous with loot and people are still complaining non-stop about the loot systems. I can only do the most cursory flyby on reddit because of the insane people there and I don't want to get to this point here but ya'll are bumming me the fuck out. I just want to shoot mans with chill friends.
Also I want to love Sentinel but this kind of thing makes me crazy:
yeah, like at the same time i am disappointed with the way iron banner worked, i was also this weekend grinding out zone tokens to get sets of armor and shaders
but the difference to me is, i think, that while i know the results are random, i can do zone tokens in so many different ways, most of which are actually fun
IB is a solo queue slog if no one's around when i have time
Faction Rally was literally running a single lost sector over and over and over until i couldn't stand doing it anymore because doing it any other way was so incredibly inefficient there's absolutely no way it would have been worth the time
i think what i'm saying is games should be fun and parts of D2 are still quite fun to me, but IB and Faction Rally were big fart noises
I think the problem is that repeat lost sector thing just set expectations too high. Faction Rally was already a legendary shard bonanza but the existence of that just made folks view other activities, that compared quite favorably with planetary token grinds, as not efficient.
I'm still shocked that lost sectors don't require something to reset. Doing a different lost sectors, or a public events or a patrol or even just orbiting. If any of those were required it would have cratered the efficiency of shoot six caches and die so you respawn outside.
I had a good time in IB, but that was mostly down to the Power of Friendship (TM). Did a bit of solo queuing, and even had a few great games when doing so, but after reviewing the footage, the other team had a lot of players dropping in and out; that probably had more to do with how well my team was doing. The games I had with PAX'ers were a lot of fun, even when things went sideways. You guys were awesome.
Loot-wise, I did better than some: the AR, the pulse, the fusion, SMG, sidearm, gauntlets, boots, and cape. That's more of a haul than a D1 IB, but it was down to RNG. I liked that D1 IB had a different structure than standard Crucible, and had a goal to work toward. I miss that part of it.
On the happier side of things, this is the last 45 seconds or so from a down-to-the-wire match with Flint, Piggy, and AWATT. Easily my favorite match this time around, but it would not have been possible without AWATT directing team focus for the entire match, and giving me a perfect callout so I knew where to put my Nova.
The thing is, though, Peen, I played a ton of IB. It was my favorite thing! I lived for the Iron Banner and as soon as I got an iron banner shader and emblem I never took them off. I spent months, yes, grinding the IB gear but... honestly it was more fun.
I knew it was time locked. All I had to do was, each time it rolled around, bust heads in the crucible enough times to get to rank 5 and then snag the two available armor pieces. I had to wait, sure, and couldn't get the entire armor set each time....but that was known up front.
It was satisfying, completing the set, especially since getting to rank 5 was actually a little bit difficult!
This? There was nothing satisfying or fun about it, especially when I would load into games and see someone on my fireteam with a full set of armor and holding the auto rifle I wanted so badly, and knowing the only difference between us is that they got luckier than I did.
It was the same thing with the Faction Rally. I'd walk around the tower and see people in full New Monarchy gear, when I could only ever seem to get the boots, and I'd just be mad that they had better luck than I did.
The thought that people are upset about not getting full sets of armor from the first ever Iron Banner in this game is breaking my brain
The complaint is RNG is unfair, and having IB gear is too much luck and not enough achievement. This is bad for both those unlucky people (feelsbad) and for those lucky people (people value lucky/given items less than those they worked really hard for).
We can argue it's a game design mechanic that gets people to keep playing by fucking them with RNG like it's 2005, but most guilds & now most games have moved away from pure RNG loot distribution, I think gamers expectations are higher than pure RNG now.
Edit: As others have said, maybe D2 just wasn't designed to be my type of game like D1. It does feel like it's designed to be a game you pick up and play for a week or two when DLC hits, and then put away for a while. I never "go back" to games, so my salt is that the game (D1) I used to play all the time is no longer designed that way. I got my $60 worth, but am willing to pay so much more if there were more content*.
I hopped on to IB last night but wound up doing the flashpoint / clan XP on the titan...then kind of just lost interest. Wound up doing some work and didn't get back in, went to bed and watched the first two episodes of Mindhunter on Netflix instead.
D2 had a pretty strong start, but I'm sort of done with it outside the odd raid. Which isn't a bad thing sort of, there's so many other things to play.
I think there is a lot to dislike about the Iron Banner and token system. I think the real problem is what people mentioned earlier - the previous system at least gave you a guarantee that you'd be able to acquire the four specific pieces they offered. So you could work at it, and get what you want, if those items were what you want.
The new system gives way more loot and way faster (if you don't have one piece in mind), but since the pool is so big, you want the whole pool. Should we be mad that we didn't get every gun and armor piece on every character class in the first instance of an event (and thus have nothing to motivate return play next time)? No. Should we be mad we didn't get the one piece we cared about? Maybe, because you would think with enough time, you could get it.
Is that disrespectful? Is that an intentional Fuck You from the game designers? I'd say no. The game designers have given out far more rewards in D2, and as a result, have a shitstorm in the community of people saying there isn't anything to do or chase (and yet take the fastest route to get there).
I've been trying to think of the good things from the Banner, as a thought exercise on how decisions get made. Why tokens work. I think there isn't a lot of appreciation for the fact that you can easily acquire and transfer tokens between alts. That hurts the long term, but plenty of posts in here where people got pieces of armor on all their characters, which was made easier by a token economy rather than the old rep grind (though rep grind did improve with the alt bonus).
You could make more clear and consistent progress across multiple characters in ways you couldn't before. In D1, once you hit rank 5 for a character, you were done. In D2, a character who say got all the armor pieces could still contribute by getting their daily challenges done.
Tokens also use a consistent visual and mechanical redemption system as every where else in the game - players don't need to learn a new system to acquire items (and we're not the target audience for that, more casual players are). That token system is less esoteric than the reputation system (which also only offered rewards on some rank ups and not others).
The Daily challenges themselves were very achievable, and if you had trouble with one (say double kills), tomorrow would bring something more easily accomplished. Plenty of people struggled to ever get the Weekly challenge that required a 10 kill streak, or MVP of the match. That could directly hamper progress in D1. These challenges were more accomplishable in a shorter amount of time, which again helped people get loot (even though it emphasized the problem of getting too much loot and not what you want).
Rank up packages gave you more than just Iron Banner loot. Folks were complaining about tacitly "free" loot, wondering why they got additional non-IB items. This was confusing, since like the Factions, it was meant to be extra, to help smooth out your power curve, give you more shards and parts, and maybe increase the joy if you got a non-faction item you were looking for (getting an Exotic you want out of a Faction rank as a positive feedback loop). But ultimately it was extra rewards thrown on top of your IB RNG.
I think there were positive decisions that get overlooked in the heat of the "I didn't get everything I wanted" aspect, that I've been trying to dwell on recently. Because ultimately decisions aren't usually made to make players angry and rant on the internet and possibly quit.
so the pattern till now has been event week, off week, rotating. so except that prestige got delayed to this week, it should just be a relaxing "play if and how you want to" kind of week.
Do we expect or have heard anything for next week or will PC release throw that off maybe?
They haven't done another road map as far as I know, which is disappointing.
They do this for some reason with Vanguard loot, Ikora loot and Crucible/Banshee loot. Those are not available from other sources. Planetary armor is unique to the planet vendor, but the guns aren't.
They are, though. Engrams have a chance to give a second item and from those you can get that other loot. Saladin was giving me the armors, for example, from the planets randomly while the first is always the guaranteed Iron Banner loot.
Now that I think about it, the Vanguard / Ikora / Crucible might be the most limited ones in terms of what you can get, but the planets are definitely not limited.
19 packages for me to get all the Titan gear and all the weapons except the scout rifle, so I believe it. So, yes, that means I got 13 more packages with no scout.
Bizazedo on
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Flashpoint, at least at the moment for me, is monstrously slow going. No events up when I landed, waited 4:30 for the first. None up again. Waiting 5 minutes currently for my second to start...
Edit: event completed in 30 seconds, now none are up again.
Double edit: but they made it give more progress? So I'm complete after only 3. Huh.
I had a good time in IB, but that was mostly down to the Power of Friendship (TM). Did a bit of solo queuing, and even had a few great games when doing so, but after reviewing the footage, the other team had a lot of players dropping in and out; that probably had more to do with how well my team was doing. The games I had with PAX'ers were a lot of fun, even when things went sideways. You guys were awesome.
Loot-wise, I did better than some: the AR, the pulse, the fusion, SMG, sidearm, gauntlets, boots, and cape. That's more of a haul than a D1 IB, but it was down to RNG. I liked that D1 IB had a different structure than standard Crucible, and had a goal to work toward. I miss that part of it.
On the happier side of things, this is the last 45 seconds or so from a down-to-the-wire match with Flint, Piggy, and AWATT. Easily my favorite match this time around, but it would not have been possible without AWATT directing team focus for the entire match, and giving me a perfect callout so I knew where to put my Nova.
normally you can do an event on one platform, then run to the other platform and have about 2 minutes for the next to start. rinse, repeat. only the rare second spot for the tank event throws that off for me usually.
man... titan needs more space for events.
I assume at some point they use the arcology for something. The hive keep doing weird shit in there.
normally you can do an event on one platform, then run to the other platform and have about 2 minutes for the next to start.
man... titan needs more space for events.
I assume at some point they use the arcology for something. The hive keep doing weird shit in there.
people have learned how to trigger the heroic ones more consistently i think, and the ones on titan especially are not time-dependent once the heroic is triggered, so i wonder if people are just finishing them more quickly now, thus causing a lag between them
Titan feels like the patrol team got distracted at the halfway mark. There is a whole shit ton of finished but unused real estate. Compare to like Io where everything is part of the patrol zone.
They do this for some reason with Vanguard loot, Ikora loot and Crucible/Banshee loot. Those are not available from other sources. Planetary armor is unique to the planet vendor, but the guns aren't.
They are, though. Engrams have a chance to give a second item and from those you can get that other loot. Saladin was giving me the armors, for example, from the planets randomly while the first is always the guaranteed Iron Banner loot.
Now that I think about it, the Vanguard / Ikora / Crucible might be the most limited ones in terms of what you can get, but the planets are definitely not limited.
19 packages for me to get all the Titan gear and all the weapons except the scout rifle, so I believe it. So, yes, that means I got 13 more packages with no scout.
I've gotten Uriel's Gift from Banshee multiple times. That is supposedly a Failsafe faction item.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
They do this for some reason with Vanguard loot, Ikora loot and Crucible/Banshee loot. Those are not available from other sources. Planetary armor is unique to the planet vendor, but the guns aren't.
They are, though. Engrams have a chance to give a second item and from those you can get that other loot. Saladin was giving me the armors, for example, from the planets randomly while the first is always the guaranteed Iron Banner loot.
Now that I think about it, the Vanguard / Ikora / Crucible might be the most limited ones in terms of what you can get, but the planets are definitely not limited.
19 packages for me to get all the Titan gear and all the weapons except the scout rifle, so I believe it. So, yes, that means I got 13 more packages with no scout.
I've gotten Uriel's Gift from Banshee multiple times. That is supposedly a Failsafe faction item.
It's like they divy'd up all the items they'd created up into factions then realized they had nothing for the general loot pool.
While everyone's complaining about IB, I just want to rant a bit about Crucible itself.
I had a bad first impression of D2 Crucible, but I played a ton of Crucible in D1 so I wanted to give it a fair shot. The original Crucible grew on me, so hopefully this one would, too. Now that I've comprehensively experienced the endgame (Trials of the Nine, Iron Banner) I can comfortably say... I just don't like it at all. Bummer.
There are actually a number of changes I do like. Dual primaries. Fewer sniper rifles. No OHK sticky grenades. Class abilities. Kills and assists treated identically. Supers tracked on the HUD. Streamlined Trials. Countdown as the Trials gametype. Unique announcers for PvP events.
Some of the other fundamental changes sound alright in theory too, in particular, the higher time-to-kill on weapons and reduction of one-hit-kill options. Theoretically, those could make engagements last just a little bit longer so they're more... engaging. In practice, it leads to a lot of mindless teamshooting and less room for exciting individual play. I don't think it's an inherent problem to higher TTK, as Halo never felt as teamshoot-y.
There are a number of things I don't like, but the biggest is that I don't feel powerful. I feel weak and slow. Movement speed is severely reduced from the first game so I feel a lot more grounded. Base mobility and recovery stats are so low. Trying to play a zero recovery hunter is a miserable experience. Melee and grenade abilities are nerfed in both damage and cooldown. The mobility and space magic that made Destiny a unique experience were de-emphasized in favor of straightforward, teamshoot-y primary gunfights. Ability spam was a bit much in the original Destiny, for sure, but what we have now is worse than playing a 0/0/0 tier build. If the abilities are going to be as weak as they are (except pulse grenades), it'd be nice to be able to use them more frequently.
I could go on about the move to 4v4, lack of rumble, power weapon changes, map design, tokens, radar delay and other issues, but none of that matters if I don't like how it feels to play at its core. Bungie can tweak the game to a limited extent (like cooldowns), but unfortunately the whole game is built and tuned around limited mobility. I don't think Bungie could rebalance it enough even if they wanted.
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i never really had a problem with getting a few pieces each time before, but i think it was also a lot more clear in D1 that's what you should expect
Well, they could do it. All the necessary systems are in place, vendors, markets, tokens, items. We can already trade glimmer for items, it's not a huge jump in logic to switch that currency for tokens and those items for legendaries.
So at this point, it is a conscious effort not to do it. So, bungie says fuck you, and I say fuck you back.
They do this for some reason with Vanguard loot, Ikora loot and Crucible/Banshee loot. Those are not available from other sources. Planetary armor is unique to the planet vendor, but the guns aren't.
Yeah, the difference here is hope denied.
In Destiny 1 IB, if you wanted say... the hunter gauntlet and it wasn't offered, well that was that. The next time it comes around, it's there. You put in your 60 games to get the rank required to get it, and you have it.
In Destiny 2 IB, if you wanted that same gauntlet, you had the possibility of getting it. Now, you can put in your 60 games and still not get it: therein lies the problem. Perhaps next time you can try again. But the chance of getting it assuming the loot format of IB remains the same remains the same.
While the full on lottery ticket type gameplay works for the majority, it doesn't for everyone. The time can be invested elsewhere. IDK.
Oh, I know the answer to that! That's because of prior gen consoles holding D2 back.
wait..
Yeah. There are so many "should haves" in this game I really think whoever is making the game design decisions is incompetent. They have great gunplay, great environments, great grimoire lore to leverage, a really good raid (IMO), and a large active playerbase from D1, and a space magic. How do you fuck up everything when starting with that? Holy shit HOW DO YOU FUCK UP EVERYTHING ELSE?
Sure, in a vacuum, I would agree. Luckily, none of us live in a vacuum. Given the current context of game design, MMO's and successful loot grinds, they are reverting back to an old failed paradigm and steering clear from an established and current practice. Some might call this "bucking the trend" and that's fine inherently, but this bucking the trend ruins the experience for the consumer.
If a car manufacturer decided to make a car that did 10 miles to the galloon because they felt like it would be a "good design decision", it would certainly be a large fuck you to consumers. Sure, some people would like it and claim all hail new jesus car king and such, but in the overall context it is a rather anachronistic design decision and one that does not favor consumers. This is pretty similar here, they are pretending the last 15 years of MMO and loot grind hasn't happened and Bungie thinks their "unique" design decisions are somehow "good".
But generally yes, I see people who enter a new field and buck all previous knowledge in that field as a large fuck you to the field and the people who exist within it, too. So my fuck you scale is probably different than most.
Right. I got a whole set of Titan armor, all but cloak on hunter and not quite half the warlock stuff, along with all the weapons (several times over). Now, could I have done that in one IB previously? No. But at the same time I got lucky enough with my drops (and got an absurd amount of ranks, 45ish across all my characters). I could just as easily not completed a single set or missed out on a gun I wanted. I didn't even play yesterday, as I passed out kinda early, but I might have gotten the Hunter cloak and the rest of the warlock armor. Or, maybe not, cause RNG. The thing that taints people's experience is that even though it is possible to get it all in one go, it is also possible to not get it for 2,3,4 attempts at IB or maybe even ever. Now of course that is an extremely small chance, but it still leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouths.
Oh, insightful. Glad I responded and explained my thought process to your "your opinion is silly" argument. I understand you completely now.
But for the most part I don't have much of a desire to log in right now. I'm OK with that, though. The game isn't going anywhere, I'm hopeful that it will get better and address a lot of the complaints that I and others in the community have.
I'm pleased I didn't preorder the expansions. This will let me look at the reviews of Curse of Osiris to see if anything is addressed.
Honestly the fact that I just bought another shooter so I could have some fun and relaxing multiplayer to play is crazy to me. I never would have expected that. I thought D2 would be like D1 for me and be enough for all my gaming "needs." But I'm ok that it's not. It never had to be and maybe it's unfair of me to have saddled it with those expectations. I've certainly gotten my money's worth out of D1, and I've had a great time doing raids and Trials with people here.
I'm at least logging on tonight to buy that sexy exotic ship I've been waiting on.
Random quotes from that thread:
also this guy (that is a ton of games)
then there's the truth:
Also this guy (assuming he's not lying):
And yeah, dupe guns in this game suck because they're all the same, but it wasn't any better getting a dupe with a bad roll and either keeping it for infusion fuel or sharding it to wait for the next better one. Or worse, getting nothing at all, or having it be an IB where the guns you hated were the featured guns so they were all that would drop post match and you got to shard your sixth Binding Blaze.
There's a ton of salt about this game that I don't understand. If anything it's too generous with loot and people are still complaining non-stop about the loot systems. I can only do the most cursory flyby on reddit because of the insane people there and I don't want to get to this point here but ya'll are bumming me the fuck out. I just want to shoot mans with chill friends.
Also I want to love Sentinel but this kind of thing makes me crazy:
you just used more words to say the same thing
you disagree with a decision and choose to take it as a personal affront to your dignity
that's silly
i'm not saying they can't do better, but no one's going to listen to your complaints if you're coming at them like they've made their choices specifically to insult you
(Unless I messed up the dates or they delay it again)
I need to get me an Acrius ornament, so be a fellow and help a Guardian out!
https://www.the100.io/gaming_sessions/1067571
yeah, like at the same time i am disappointed with the way iron banner worked, i was also this weekend grinding out zone tokens to get sets of armor and shaders
but the difference to me is, i think, that while i know the results are random, i can do zone tokens in so many different ways, most of which are actually fun
IB is a solo queue slog if no one's around when i have time
Faction Rally was literally running a single lost sector over and over and over until i couldn't stand doing it anymore because doing it any other way was so incredibly inefficient there's absolutely no way it would have been worth the time
i think what i'm saying is games should be fun and parts of D2 are still quite fun to me, but IB and Faction Rally were big fart noises
I think the problem is that repeat lost sector thing just set expectations too high. Faction Rally was already a legendary shard bonanza but the existence of that just made folks view other activities, that compared quite favorably with planetary token grinds, as not efficient.
I'm still shocked that lost sectors don't require something to reset. Doing a different lost sectors, or a public events or a patrol or even just orbiting. If any of those were required it would have cratered the efficiency of shoot six caches and die so you respawn outside.
Loot-wise, I did better than some: the AR, the pulse, the fusion, SMG, sidearm, gauntlets, boots, and cape. That's more of a haul than a D1 IB, but it was down to RNG. I liked that D1 IB had a different structure than standard Crucible, and had a goal to work toward. I miss that part of it.
On the happier side of things, this is the last 45 seconds or so from a down-to-the-wire match with Flint, Piggy, and AWATT. Easily my favorite match this time around, but it would not have been possible without AWATT directing team focus for the entire match, and giving me a perfect callout so I knew where to put my Nova.
I knew it was time locked. All I had to do was, each time it rolled around, bust heads in the crucible enough times to get to rank 5 and then snag the two available armor pieces. I had to wait, sure, and couldn't get the entire armor set each time....but that was known up front.
It was satisfying, completing the set, especially since getting to rank 5 was actually a little bit difficult!
This? There was nothing satisfying or fun about it, especially when I would load into games and see someone on my fireteam with a full set of armor and holding the auto rifle I wanted so badly, and knowing the only difference between us is that they got luckier than I did.
It was the same thing with the Faction Rally. I'd walk around the tower and see people in full New Monarchy gear, when I could only ever seem to get the boots, and I'd just be mad that they had better luck than I did.
I want to earn gear, not play a slot machine.
The complaint is RNG is unfair, and having IB gear is too much luck and not enough achievement. This is bad for both those unlucky people (feelsbad) and for those lucky people (people value lucky/given items less than those they worked really hard for).
We can argue it's a game design mechanic that gets people to keep playing by fucking them with RNG like it's 2005, but most guilds & now most games have moved away from pure RNG loot distribution, I think gamers expectations are higher than pure RNG now.
Edit: As others have said, maybe D2 just wasn't designed to be my type of game like D1. It does feel like it's designed to be a game you pick up and play for a week or two when DLC hits, and then put away for a while. I never "go back" to games, so my salt is that the game (D1) I used to play all the time is no longer designed that way. I got my $60 worth, but am willing to pay so much more if there were more content*.
*And no, Eververse content does not interest me.
D2 had a pretty strong start, but I'm sort of done with it outside the odd raid. Which isn't a bad thing sort of, there's so many other things to play.
The new system gives way more loot and way faster (if you don't have one piece in mind), but since the pool is so big, you want the whole pool. Should we be mad that we didn't get every gun and armor piece on every character class in the first instance of an event (and thus have nothing to motivate return play next time)? No. Should we be mad we didn't get the one piece we cared about? Maybe, because you would think with enough time, you could get it.
Is that disrespectful? Is that an intentional Fuck You from the game designers? I'd say no. The game designers have given out far more rewards in D2, and as a result, have a shitstorm in the community of people saying there isn't anything to do or chase (and yet take the fastest route to get there).
I've been trying to think of the good things from the Banner, as a thought exercise on how decisions get made. Why tokens work. I think there isn't a lot of appreciation for the fact that you can easily acquire and transfer tokens between alts. That hurts the long term, but plenty of posts in here where people got pieces of armor on all their characters, which was made easier by a token economy rather than the old rep grind (though rep grind did improve with the alt bonus).
You could make more clear and consistent progress across multiple characters in ways you couldn't before. In D1, once you hit rank 5 for a character, you were done. In D2, a character who say got all the armor pieces could still contribute by getting their daily challenges done.
Tokens also use a consistent visual and mechanical redemption system as every where else in the game - players don't need to learn a new system to acquire items (and we're not the target audience for that, more casual players are). That token system is less esoteric than the reputation system (which also only offered rewards on some rank ups and not others).
The Daily challenges themselves were very achievable, and if you had trouble with one (say double kills), tomorrow would bring something more easily accomplished. Plenty of people struggled to ever get the Weekly challenge that required a 10 kill streak, or MVP of the match. That could directly hamper progress in D1. These challenges were more accomplishable in a shorter amount of time, which again helped people get loot (even though it emphasized the problem of getting too much loot and not what you want).
Rank up packages gave you more than just Iron Banner loot. Folks were complaining about tacitly "free" loot, wondering why they got additional non-IB items. This was confusing, since like the Factions, it was meant to be extra, to help smooth out your power curve, give you more shards and parts, and maybe increase the joy if you got a non-faction item you were looking for (getting an Exotic you want out of a Faction rank as a positive feedback loop). But ultimately it was extra rewards thrown on top of your IB RNG.
I think there were positive decisions that get overlooked in the heat of the "I didn't get everything I wanted" aspect, that I've been trying to dwell on recently. Because ultimately decisions aren't usually made to make players angry and rant on the internet and possibly quit.
SniperGuyGaming on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
Do we expect or have heard anything for next week or will PC release throw that off maybe?
They haven't done another road map as far as I know, which is disappointing.
Now that I think about it, the Vanguard / Ikora / Crucible might be the most limited ones in terms of what you can get, but the planets are definitely not limited.
19 packages for me to get all the Titan gear and all the weapons except the scout rifle, so I believe it. So, yes, that means I got 13 more packages with no scout.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Edit: event completed in 30 seconds, now none are up again.
Double edit: but they made it give more progress? So I'm complete after only 3. Huh.
What a beautiful goddamn nova! Pew pew space magic pew pew!
(That said, I don't know why they had their whole goddamn squad sitting on the control point, it doesn't make it go any faster!)
normally you can do an event on one platform, then run to the other platform and have about 2 minutes for the next to start. rinse, repeat. only the rare second spot for the tank event throws that off for me usually.
man... titan needs more space for events.
I assume at some point they use the arcology for something. The hive keep doing weird shit in there.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
people have learned how to trigger the heroic ones more consistently i think, and the ones on titan especially are not time-dependent once the heroic is triggered, so i wonder if people are just finishing them more quickly now, thus causing a lag between them
timer before you can complete the event, i mean, not timer before the event ends if you haven't completed it
On Titan, yeah. Though Caches can be completed non-heroic really really quickly if people want to.
Other planets....Vex one still has a fixed timer. Otherwise I think the heroics get rid of all of them.
I've gotten Uriel's Gift from Banshee multiple times. That is supposedly a Failsafe faction item.
It's like they divy'd up all the items they'd created up into factions then realized they had nothing for the general loot pool.
you posting this made me also realize that
an arcology map would be pretty cool they should do that
Yeah, at the very least you want to get on it at the end. It's how you can eeke out 2 supers per match.
I had a bad first impression of D2 Crucible, but I played a ton of Crucible in D1 so I wanted to give it a fair shot. The original Crucible grew on me, so hopefully this one would, too. Now that I've comprehensively experienced the endgame (Trials of the Nine, Iron Banner) I can comfortably say... I just don't like it at all. Bummer.
There are actually a number of changes I do like. Dual primaries. Fewer sniper rifles. No OHK sticky grenades. Class abilities. Kills and assists treated identically. Supers tracked on the HUD. Streamlined Trials. Countdown as the Trials gametype. Unique announcers for PvP events.
Some of the other fundamental changes sound alright in theory too, in particular, the higher time-to-kill on weapons and reduction of one-hit-kill options. Theoretically, those could make engagements last just a little bit longer so they're more... engaging. In practice, it leads to a lot of mindless teamshooting and less room for exciting individual play. I don't think it's an inherent problem to higher TTK, as Halo never felt as teamshoot-y.
There are a number of things I don't like, but the biggest is that I don't feel powerful. I feel weak and slow. Movement speed is severely reduced from the first game so I feel a lot more grounded. Base mobility and recovery stats are so low. Trying to play a zero recovery hunter is a miserable experience. Melee and grenade abilities are nerfed in both damage and cooldown. The mobility and space magic that made Destiny a unique experience were de-emphasized in favor of straightforward, teamshoot-y primary gunfights. Ability spam was a bit much in the original Destiny, for sure, but what we have now is worse than playing a 0/0/0 tier build. If the abilities are going to be as weak as they are (except pulse grenades), it'd be nice to be able to use them more frequently.
I could go on about the move to 4v4, lack of rumble, power weapon changes, map design, tokens, radar delay and other issues, but none of that matters if I don't like how it feels to play at its core. Bungie can tweak the game to a limited extent (like cooldowns), but unfortunately the whole game is built and tuned around limited mobility. I don't think Bungie could rebalance it enough even if they wanted.