Dealing with sociopaths (within the family).

WaterfallSandSun

Before carrying on to reading my story, if you are not familiar with what a "sociopath" is outside of what you have seen in the media, I urge you to do a little research first.

Or follow this link: https://m.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Sociopath

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This is my first time reaching out for guidance (help!) in dealing with this issue, and feel embarrassed(?), I guess, for doing so, because according to the internet, most people that reach out for this issue, are women, so I guess I am manning-down for not being able to resolve this myself.

Anyways, my father-in-law, is a sociopath.

I have come to this conclusion after doing days of research on the very definition of a sociopath, and from others that have experienced very similar problems. 100% of what I have found, fit my father-in-law's description/character to a T.

I would like to share all of my experiences, but it would very likely take days of non-stop writing, as I have daily "interactions" with him.

But to summerize, I have now what most everyone desires for... a wife & kid, cars & house, good paying, local, job that allows more time to spend with the family on average, and that can not only support the wife & kid, but also both my in-laws as they are staying with us.

I am living better than what I have dreamed/planned for... or so I thought.

There were hints of him (father-in-law) behaving a bit "strange", but I have immediately dismissed it thinking that I am just not used to having "new" members of the family living with us, and just need to learn more about them and eventually learn their personalities in order better live in harmony. This was true for the mother-in-law, slowly I have learned more about her personality, likes, and dislikes, and have more or less adapted to better accommodate her.

But the father-in-law was, at first, seemingly trying whole-heartedly to accommodate me!

I felt everything would consistently continue to go uphill at this point. Great job (even the company "culture" is great. Good people all around.), great hours (more time to spend with family), and great family!

I guess its true, the saying, if it looks/feels too good to be true, be wary.

Down the road, small things would occur, such as my personal things getting "misplaced" or missing, and damaged or broken, furthur down the road. I just thought I had a stream of bad luck. Until he (father-in-law) made it more apparent that he was bitter. Bitter towards - me.

I then made the connections. When my personal belongings were fondled with, it was when he had wanted something from me. From something even as simple as helping him run an errand/complete a task, if I had not immediately automatically came to his aid, strange things would "occur". Perhaps because he felt that I had purposefully not been there for him, or perhaps it's something else entirely.

I will never know. All I know is that he is now very bitter towards me for unknown reasons. The wife tried to help, and confronted him, he denies any bitterness towards me and even complemented me for everything that I have done for him.

The "happenings" stopped for a short time (days). Then again came his usual ways of discreetly displaying his bitterness towards me, by giving me the "eye" or "face", not directly towards me, but through reflective objects such as a glass surface where you can see your, or other's reflections, along with things getting misplaced and/or damaged. The kicker is that it would not only be items I have placed out in the open, but also things in my personal desk drawers in my bedroom or car (for example)!

Then the mother-in-law came to my aid and confronted him. Again not only does he deny everything, he continues to, on top of that, complement me.

Now I know he is trying to get to me.

I then tried my best to ignore him and not give him any further fuel to entertain himself with (by showing discomfort or anger), but the "happenings" become more intense by doing so.

Eventually I once again inform the wife and mother-in-law about the events occuring. They once again confront him. The usual outcome. Denial and then "confusion" on why I think of him that way, and then complementing me.

My mother-in-law, and wife, begin to think perhaps I am getting stressed out from work, or from raising a kid, or from supporting the family, or... going crazy.

He then starts to play the victim card. Trying to turn things around, "confronting" me whenever the family is together, "asking" me what is wrong and why I am this way.

I have never been so lit, in my life.

I desperately wanted to find answers. How can someone be this way, how can a human being seemingly find pleasure in someone else's displeasure, especially someone that is within your own family, more so towards someone that had always looked out for his well-being. Nothing I had said or done warranted any of this.

I found that most "symptoms" fitting the description of a sociopath, fit exactly how I would describe him as well.

From what I have found (according to the wife and mother-in-law), he has had a troubled past. He was one of 4 or 5 children, being the youngest, pretty much raised by a single mother. Growing up in poverty, he had pretty much raised himself. He was, from what I've learned, also picked on all throughout childhood. Without a proper family structure or any type of order, he eventually joined a band of misfits in his young-adult years to "get-back" at society. To summarize the events that took place afterwards, his (now) wife, "found" and "rescued" him from this lifestyle.

His sociopathic nature became dormant.

The more I have learned about his past, the furthur it fits the definition of a sociopath. For example, they (wife & mother-in-law) have also mentioned that he doesn't like to be "troubled" to do things, especially if there is nothing in it for him. He would also be very selfish, for example, wanting something that his son (wife's younger brother) has, to be his own. Also that he is very easily bored, always needing to constantly find a way to entertain himself (spending time with family does not apply). The list goes on to fit the very definition of a sociopath.

Even with all of this information given to me, they (wife & mother-in-law) did not make the connection from his case to the case of a sociopath. What sane daughter (the wife) to her father, wife (the mother-in-law) to her husband would dream of making such a connection? To connect their loved one with a sociopath?

He has now turned his entire side of his family against me, or more specifically, his wife's (mother-in-law's) side, including his wife herself, as he has little to no "connection" to his own (family).

The solution is simple, you may think. Sever the connection, live life back out on my own, divorce. Sounds straightforward, but not in reality.

I have built what I, or anyone else, would want in life at this point. I love my son, I love my wife, I love my life. There is only one obstacle now holding me back. That one obstacle even went as far as destroying my reputation within the family.

Of course I am aware, this is not healthy, not healthy for my mental well-being. Not healthy for my sanity. But unlike the sociopath, I have a heart. I have feelings. I have morals. It would be selfish of me to separate for my own well-being.

I am now stuck. I am at a dead end, circling back and forth hoping for a new road to materialize.

This has been therapeutic for me, with my story written out on digital paper. I can now carry on for at least the rest of this day.

Thank you for your time.

WaterfallSandSun

Just some stuff that I have left out in case anyone asks... yes I have also confronted him myself, both with the family together and even alone one-on-one, trying to get things resolved and move on. If you've read this far, you can already guess his response/reactions. Denial and then complementing me, then turning things around and proceeding to "ask" me what is wrong and how he can help.

Also, I cannot "kick them out". Another long story short, they do not have the resources to be on their own, and it would only furthur damage my already, more or less, destroyed reputation within the family.

My own side of the family is aware of my situation but is also unsure of what to do as this type of issue/behavior is not normal/sane!

bsjezz

firstly i think you need to forget about the word 'sociopath.' your diagnosis may or may not be correct, but in an intimate family scenario it's far from a useful label to fixate on. he's a human being, one that you live with, and not even a sociopath is ultimately defined by their condition.

secondly, what specifically has been destroyed, and what value did it have? why is it so hard to let petty gestures with material objects slide? if there's a bored retired man living in your household, you're necessarily going to have to put up with shit being toyed with.

you need to take a deep breath. it's hard and frustrating to live under the feet of extended family, but you're right to want stop this trend before it compromises your own family. if parting ways with the in-laws is not an option, however, you need to look at long-term coping strategies. this problem is primarily psychological - and the problems are both his and yours. you should see a therapist. and when you do, don't use the word 'sociopath.'

WaterfallSandSun

It is not about the material things, it is about this person not wanting to resolve problems and turning my own words against me (lying). Making it impossible to have anything resolved allowing for a normal, harmonious life.

I guess it is better to have it put this way... if he was a loud and/or violent person, then the "problem" would be very much simpler to deal with, as it would be apparent who is in the wrong. But he is playing his little games to try to break me, trying to break us, and then denial of everything, and then playing the victim.

Also he is not "elderly-elderly", he is young-elderly (just hit his 60's). So his body and mind is still very much thriving. In short, he knows exactly what he is doing.

I just found that all of his behaviors and actions fit this description. I guess I am just trying to find answers.

Amaryl

Get them out of the house, or get out of the house. Abuse is not going to stop. Forget about: Look what I've built, its what I always wanted, and I don't want to lose it. Because obviously, its not what you always wanted, you're being abused.

I get that, this isn't easy, and me saying this isn't going to make it easier.


Put them in a condo or some other place and help pay for it if you can afford it, or build a partition in your house/move where you have your own living environment away from the inlaws.

Quid

First, don't try to diagnose others. You are not a doctor.

Second, tell your wife that something has to change. He and his wife should probably move out if this is causing you so much stress. It's very likely that she won't be happy with it but it's the only way things might improve.

Enc

It reads to me like you are feeling gaslighted regardless of if gaslighting is actually occurring. It also reads to me that your father-in-law may feel the same way, causing the situation to spiral.

Regardless of if there is intent or not, that isn't going to change. Partition the household or make new living accommodations.

WaterfallSandSun

It is very clear of his intentions. I will see the pleasure within him when he notices my displeasures (through his facial expressions). Of course he would not show this when other people are around.

All of this may sound absurd/crazy, which is why it is even harder for me to put into words with my own family, so I let some of it out here.

Yes it is wrong to put such a label on a member of your own, but nearly every single "symptom" of such a label, all applies to him. Whether he is, or is not, most all the symptoms apply. I am just trying to express/describe what I am dealing with.

I have only given a quick summery of what I have learned (about him) and the events that have occured (daily).

CelestialBadger

Honestly, it sounds like you really need to talk to a psychiatrist. Your thoughts seem confused and paranoid.

That's not to say you are imagining your FIL disliking you. Quite possible you are right about that, and that's something you also need to deal with. But the way you express it makes me consider that you really need to see a real doctor, and fast. It sounds like you are in danger of having a breakdown and losing your good job and relationship. Take action. Seek help.

WaterfallSandSun

Your very comment sums up what I am afraid of, coming out about this issue. Your very comment is also the goal of this person, to have others think that I am "going crazy".

While I have been pushed to my limits, I have so far still kept my cool.

I am seeking help, that is why I am here, trying to share my experiences without appearing insane (his goal).

CelestialBadger

Don't call yourself "crazy" or "insane" - you are just a person with a possible illness and no-one is judging you for it anymore than if you had diabetes or a hangnail. Your family love you and want you to get better. If you can't talk with a doctor, talk with your wife.

Rainfall

If your FIL is, for real, gaslighting you and trying to torment you, kicking him out may be the only way to make it stop, and that may damage your family relations. Have you considered a security/webcam feed to keep an eye on your possessions while you're at work? Visual evidence of him damaging your things may help create a real confrontation where he is unable to lie to you.

This post makes you appear very agitated and stressed out, for that reason alone, I suggest seeking a professional therapist(not these forums) to help you manage your emotions and avoid a breakdown while you are managing this situation.

Enc

Again, the only solution is to stop this.

If it is real, removing the person doing it will stop it.
If it is perceived, removing the person will stop it.

Drop focusing on terms like sociopath and such, that will only serve to make you seem unnecessarily antagonistic. Approach your wife and say that you can't continue living in this arrangement as it makes you feel unhappy and unsafe and that you need to find a solution that changes the situation via removing the inlaws from the house.

Calica

bsjezz wrote: »

firstly i think you need to forget about the word 'sociopath.' your diagnosis may or may not be correct, but in an intimate family scenario it's far from a useful label to fixate on. he's a human being, one that you live with, and not even a sociopath is ultimately defined by their condition.

secondly, what specifically has been destroyed, and what value did it have? why is it so hard to let petty gestures with material objects slide? if there's a bored retired man living in your household, you're necessarily going to have to put up with shit being toyed with.

If FIL is doing it deliberately, then it's really not about the material objects or "petty gestures" as you call them; it's about power and control. Regardless, no one should have to live life under siege.

you need to take a deep breath. it's hard and frustrating to live under the feet of extended family, but you're right to want stop this trend before it compromises your own family. if parting ways with the in-laws is not an option, however, you need to look at long-term coping strategies. this problem is primarily psychological - and the problems are both his and yours. you should see a therapist. and when you do, don't use the word 'sociopath.'

?

Self-censoring in therapy is like going to the doctor and hiding your injuries. Don't do it.

Anyway, people aren't suggesting therapy because we think you're crazy; we're suggesting it because you're clearly dealing with a situation that you can't handle on your own. Even if your anxiety is utterly justified, you still need to find healthy ways of dealing with it. Also, a qualified therapist is the best place to get advice for dealing with abusive people.

Oh, and Waterfall, your offhand comment about "manning-down"? I absolutely understand why you would feel that way, because our culture is swimming in shitty ideas about masculinity, but it's bullshit. You are not weak for seeking help. Quite the opposite, actually.

Paladin

If you are going to a doctor, leave your diagnoses at the door; otherwise, call him whatever you want if it helps you think more clearly about the situation.

SCREECH OF THE FARG

What are some specific things your FIL has destroyed or done? Honestly the nature of the post and the vague way you talk about things is concerning.

Enc

Re: watching you through mirrors.

The only way you can know that is happening is if you are also watching him through mirrors.

dispatch.o

Is he a sociopath? Don't know, doesn't matter, not a doctor.

Your options are:
A) you move out
he moves out

Whether or not there's mental illness, personality disorder or misunderstanding it's doing harm to at least one of you though I suspect that things are spiraling hard enough that even were you both seeking help, the first suggestion would be to change your living arrangements.

There's not any other solution really. In an abusive relationship, the first action is always get out. That doesn't just apply to spouses or boy/girlfriends.

Yes, and...

Your father-in-law sounds like a fucker. He fucks with your things and he fucks with your head. You've indicated that you're not able or willing to put significant distance between you and him, which limits your options in terms of dealing with the problem, because the most effective and reliable solution to the problem is to make sure you and your stuff isn't in his presence.

So, what can you do?

First, you need to make getting your wife back in your corner a priority. If she were here, I might give her some grief for taking her father's side over yours, but she's not and frankly she probably has years of training/programming to downplay and minimize bad things that her father does. The most realistic advice I can give you is this: you've probably been pretty annoying and stressful for her to deal with, and even though it's not really fair from your perspective or mine as an uninvolved third party for her to put the blame on your shoulders, because you're the one drawing attention to the problem, it is easy for her to think that that means you are the problem. Even though it's not your fault that there's stress in the relationship, you can take some steps to bring the tension levels down. Start out by acknowledging that you've been difficult and that taking your concerns to your wife and mother in law put something of a burden on them. Apologize to your wife for that, and tell her that you no longer expect her to confront her father on your behalf. Tell her that you are going to need to take some steps to regain your own peace of mind in your home, that you hope she'll provide you with moral support, and that you don't actually need her to do anything about these issues anymore. Do something nice for her. Find a time for a date night, buy her some flowers, finish that home improvement project you've been working on. You'll know best what kinds of things you can do to brighten her day. Once she's back on Team You, the two of you can start having conversations about what a difficult person to deal with your father-in-law is. It sounds like you've already had some discussions about that topic, but you want to make sure that you only start digging into that once your wife is no longer tired of hearing you complain about your father-in-law fucking with you. Over a long enough time scale, and with consistent messaging, you should be able to get your wife to see that her father (at least) is not worth the trouble, but we're realistically talking about a matter of years here. This is a long haul you're signed up for.

If you can deal with your stuff that is getting fucked with, that should reduce the extent to which your head is getting fucked with. You should be able to do things like restrict access to your bedroom, your home office (if you have one), and your car. If there are logistical reasons why your father-in-law should have more or less unfettered access to the car, then anything that is important or valuable, breakable, and not attached to the car you should start keeping in your bedroom. You don't need to come up with proof that would satisfy a judge that your father-in-law is responsible for the damaged or missing items, you just need things to stop being damaged or going missing, and you can do that by taking steps to secure them more thoroughly. If you want to get a bit sneaky about it, you could start leaving decoy items out for your father-in-law to fuck with.

Besides securing items of actual or sentimental value where your father in law can't access them, the only other thing you can really do is learn to let things go. You mentioned that one of the weird things he does is use reflections to vaguely glare at you. You can't do anything about where he sets his gaze or the faces that he pulls. He's his own person and he's going to do what he wants. What you can control is how much mental real estate you devote to that kind of thing. Basically, just ignore it. Maybe he will escalate his behaviour to something less subtle, but that's risky for him, because it would either mean behaving badly in the presence of others where they may observe him, or behaving badly where nobody else can observe him... or your response.

ceres

1) You might want to start treating your things like you have a relative with dementia living with you. Not that he does, but taking steps like locking valuables away, make sure private things are out of reach, put away things that are breakable, stop caring if he handles the rest.

2) If you catch him glaring at you in the mirror, make your silliest face in return. I play that game with my 4-year-old sometimes when he's grouchy, it can turn something that's unnerving into something funny (for you, at least). Is he turning some knickknack around? Make a show of placing it upside down so it's just right. If he's going to play games, may as well try to find ways to make them fun. Basically, if you don't want to leave and you don't want to kick them out, you have to find a way to make this okay.

3) I second therapy, not for a diagnosis yourself but to help you deal with this situation. You really are under a lot of stress and these new people are living with you now, hitting up a therapist for a couple sessions doesn't mean you need to go forever or end up on extreme medication. I hesitate to say that because it makes it sound like I think you're paranoid, but it does really seem like you're suspicious that you're being gaslighted and that does real damage over the long term. You need to make sure you can identify that behavior and know how to combat it in your own mind, because that shit quickly leaves a scar that may never go away. I can tell you that from experience.

tastydonuts

Starting your post off with a declaration that people should do research on sociopaths and then closing out your post with the notion that sociopaths lack "heart," feelings and morals is a tad contradictory. I truly hope that you're not basing your declaration of his sociopathy off the things you googled and such. The aggregator will build the narrative that you seek, in the same way your own perspective will. You seem to be in the grip of this notion, and whether or not he is really a sociopath is not important here. Even if he was, such knowledge would do nothing to benefit your present situation. As others have stated, you're better off working this issue out with a therapist.

Perhaps at some point the two of you should work out these differences with a family therapist too if your home situation is that set in stone. But just let this sociopathy business go. Based off what you've stated he's a passive aggressive asshole who had a shaky upbringing.

Atheraal

Things in your bedroom or office moving or going missing seems like an easy enough thing to fix. And not by locking your door or anything like that, come on. This is your home you're talking about. Do you have an old cell phone you no longer use? Hide it in such a way that it records your office desk, or a bedroom table when you're not there. With your wife's knowledge, obviously!

Absolutely agree on making sure to work with her every step of the way and having her in your corner. Abandon the sociopath angle, nobody wants to hear that about their father. Instead focus on wanting to do it for the sake of your own mental health, having your things not stay where you put them must be incredibly off-putting, at the very least.

So as your first step I would try to deal with that. And if your family knows your father-in-law has been consistently lying about this, they will be less inclined to take his word over yours if and when he moves onto harder to prove ways of fucking with you. Which he likely will, once confronted. Just make sure you have significant evidence first, that can't be explained away by "oh, I was just looking for something I had lost that day". You don't have to prove anything to a judge, but you live with your jury of peers.

On a legal note, I would think that recording a room in your own house is probably legal, even without the consent of other people living there, but you might want to check the actual laws on that for where you live. It is definitely a sketchy thing to do though, so make sure it's really only recording a spot like your desk, where it would be unusual for other people to be at. And talk to your wife about it before doing anything! And wait for other peoples' response to this post, I might be super off-base with this advice, what do y'all think?

WaterfallSandSun

Thank you for all your help and support. Your responses have been very healing for me, simply for knowing that I have additional support outside of the limited resources that I have at hand.

Thank you guys for your time.

ArbitraryDescriptor

I third considering a therapist, for the purpose of advice, counsel, and to help you shake the feeling of going crazy.

And I second (?) the nanny cam. It seems plausible that, now that you have your suspicions, you may be attributing things to him that aren't his doing. Maybe some are, maybe all are, maybe none are. But it sounds like you've never actually caught him red-handed. But this also is a thing you could run by the therapist! I'm a poor judge of normal.

Cambiata

Basically, if someone is gaslighting you - and your description of your father-in-law is of someone performing gaslighting - then you'll want to see a therapist because they're causing damage to you, and when you get damage you go to a doctor about it.

Confronting someone like this will never work: He will always put on an appealing face before witnesses. His family have likely so habitually stepped around his issues, they may not even recognize them as problems anymore. I would suggest with everyone else that you no longer live in the same house with him.