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Donald Trump Attacks [The US Military]... Again

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    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Realistically it's all based on the honor system. However, I believe there are harsh penalties in place in case someone violates that and does something like this. I feel like this should be a big deal, and wouldn't be surpsied if it is common in this white house.

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    ArchangleArchangle Registered User regular
    My understanding was that Omarosa wasn't there for an "official" meeting. Kelly pulled her aside in the office, and for whatever reason chose the Situation Room to have a closed-door standup where he could fire her.

    Her being in the Situation Room is entirely on Kelly - when the 2IC says "Can I talk to you in this room", you don't usually second guess if you should be in that room.

    Heck, it's not outside the realms of possibility that Kelly specifically chose the Situation Room because he thought someone might try to record the firing. This was when they were in major "leaker purge" mode wasn't it?

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    A number of explanations have been that it is, much of the time, just a conference room and not inherently classified. So it's just a status power play.

    But it is a designated room that civilians shouldn't be allowed access to, right? Omarosa did work for the administration, but I don't recall her being in a defence based department.

    Not that I'm aware of. Or, rather, that would depend on which meeting was happening in which situation room, since it is actually a suite of rooms rather than just a single room. I think the notion that it is solely for crisis and killing bin Laden type meetings is more to do with Hollywood than reality, but people in DC like to keep up the mystique. Especially if they have access to it, and can sound important by doing so.

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    DiplominatorDiplominator Hardcore Porg Registered User regular
    I have no problem Both Sides-ing everything about this. Kelly shouldn't have used the room for that and the tape paints him in a pretty scumbaggish light. Omarosa shouldn't have had a cell phone in a damn secure room. Especially not that secure room. I get why that kind of thing was on the honor system before but obviously with these jackals that's insufficient now.

    I also believe Omarosa when she says the Administration is a pack of idiot liars and I believe the Administration when they say Omarosa is a lying idiot.

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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Did Trump just call a bunch of armed forces members not patriotic because they didn't raise their hands for declining a pay raise to pay off the tax cuts for millionaires?


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    DiplominatorDiplominator Hardcore Porg Registered User regular
    I think it was supposed to be a joke. And, in a way, it was.

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    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Did Trump just call a bunch of armed forces members not patriotic because they didn't raise their hands for declining a pay raise to pay off the tax cuts for millionaires?



    He gives the general a little wink, but still pretty odd to say.

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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Did Trump just call a bunch of armed forces members not patriotic because they didn't raise their hands for declining a pay raise to pay off the tax cuts for millionaires?



    He gives the general a little wink, but still pretty odd to say.

    It’s the old right wing talking point “If you think taxes should be higher why don’t you voluntarily pay more?”

    They use it for immigration and healthcare too. “If you’re so worried about those people why don’t you let them come live with you?”

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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Never think Trump is joking.

    He has almost no filter, even when he feigns “humor” it gives insight into what he wants to have happen.

    -The comments on the yearly pay raise (which was not the largest ever by a long shot), shows that’s he's aware that the military even gets yearly pay raises.

    -His feud with McCain; “He was a hero because he was captured.”

    -Tammy Duckworth publicly calling him President Bonespures.

    -His feud with the Khan’s.

    -Last year’s fiasco with the Africa ambush.

    -His massive disagreements with GEN Kelly.

    -Him telling farmers to take one for the team for his tariffs.

    -He wants a Space Force which ain’t gonna pay for itself and I have no doubt he’d fuck over Joe Shmoe to get it.

    And now this.

    I can even see it playing out:

    Trump: When was the last time we won a war?! I like Soldiers that win wars! That’s why I’m gonna reduce their pay until they start winning. We all love winners folks! We don’t need losers in the military. Once all the losers quit, we’ll know who’s loyal and we’re gonna start winning bigly again. Believe me folks. Believe me. SPACE FORCE!

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
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    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Normally I'd think the same thing, and as a sound byte it's horrible.

    But watch the video. It's obvious he's trying to make a joke based on his facial expressions. He lights up like a kid on Christmas cause he thinks it's so funny.

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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Normally I'd think the same thing, and as a sound byte it's horrible.

    But watch the video. It's obvious he's trying to make a joke based on his facial expressions. He lights up like a kid on Christmas cause he thinks it's so funny.

    It's a joke only insofar as to prop up tax cuts as patriotic.

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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Normally I'd think the same thing, and as a sound byte it's horrible.

    But watch the video. It's obvious he's trying to make a joke based on his facial expressions. He lights up like a kid on Christmas cause he thinks it's so funny.

    Is the joke that poor people should pay for tax cuts for the rich?

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Yeah hes joking, but its a dogshit joke that shouldnt be made, and its a joke about how his shitty policies are hurting ordinary people, and that ordinary people should have to sacrifice for the good of his rich friends and his own ego ( dont worry ,he knows that sounds silly, thats why hes joking! even though, hes said basically the same thing seriously at other times)

    Its a dumb joke that gets worse the more you think about who is saying it and why.

    im sure if obama had made the same joke the right would have understood and laughed it off of course

    Prohass on
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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Trump also managed to sign the defense act named for John McCain and talk about it for half an hour without mentioning John McCain once. He even referred to the act by a generic name in his speech. So on top of his rubbish joke, he failed to mention the veteran with terminal cancer while signing an act named in his honor.

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    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    Yeah hes joking, but its a dogshit joke that shouldnt be made, and its a joke about how his shitty policies are hurting ordinary people, and that ordinary people should have to sacrifice for the good of his rich friends and his own ego ( dont worry ,he knows that sounds silly, thats why hes joking! even though, hes said basically the same thing seriously at other times)

    Its a dumb joke that gets worse the more you think about who is saying it and why.

    im sure if obama had made the same joke the right would have understood and laughed it off of course

    This is all valid but I honestly don't think it was the intent. He's not smart enough for that. To him he just told a zinger that I'm sure he'll brag about to his rich friends.

    I don't like it but I don't think it was intended the way it was taken even if he does believe shit like this. He thought it was the best joke of the year.

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    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Trump also managed to sign the defense act named for John McCain and talk about it for half an hour without mentioning John McCain once. He even referred to the act by a generic name in his speech. So on top of his rubbish joke, he failed to mention the veteran with terminal cancer while signing an act named in his honor.


    I mentioned this earlier. And while he didn't mention McCain by name at either rallies, he talked about the guy who voted no to repeal the ACA at a later new York rally. That was at McCain

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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Taramoor wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Did Trump just call a bunch of armed forces members not patriotic because they didn't raise their hands for declining a pay raise to pay off the tax cuts for millionaires?



    He gives the general a little wink, but still pretty odd to say.

    It’s the old right wing talking point “If you think taxes should be higher why don’t you voluntarily pay more?”

    They use it for immigration and healthcare too. “If you’re so worried about those people why don’t you let them come live with you?”

    Also not the biggest pay raise in a decade, but still better than the "first pay raise in 8 years" he'd be using

    PantsB on
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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
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    CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    WTF is John Kelly thinking?
    That was my thought. Trump being Trump and demanding she be allowed in (despite him "coffee fetcher"ing Omarosa on Twitter over the last day or so).

    But Kelly should know better. Seems like even people who seem like they should know better get dumber when they work for this lot. Is stupidity contagious?

    Human brains get tired trying to reconcile incompatibilities in their reality, and creating incompatibilities is what gaslighting does. So in a way, yes.

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Trump also managed to sign the defense act named for John McCain and talk about it for half an hour without mentioning John McCain once. He even referred to the act by a generic name in his speech. So on top of his rubbish joke, he failed to mention the veteran with terminal cancer while signing an act named in his honor.


    john McCain sucks, this bill was horseshit, and I hate that the media felt the need to talk about this insignificant breach of decorum rather than the fact that they decided to throw another seventy fucking billion dollars at the pentagon

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    John McCain does suck but the ways Trump talks shit about him are pretty out of line.

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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Trump also managed to sign the defense act named for John McCain and talk about it for half an hour without mentioning John McCain once. He even referred to the act by a generic name in his speech. So on top of his rubbish joke, he failed to mention the veteran with terminal cancer while signing an act named in his honor.


    john McCain sucks, this bill was horseshit, and I hate that the media felt the need to talk about this insignificant breach of decorum rather than the fact that they decided to throw another seventy fucking billion dollars at the pentagon

    The Part I emphasize is the part that really baffles me; I know it's bordering on treason to question military expenditures, but someone needs to point out that aside from the sporadic bombing campaigns and spec ops that are the day to day affairs of the US government, you aren't actually in any major armed conflicts right now, nor are you in a position to actually start one with any of your likely foes (NK is basically safe since trump can't admit that he utterly failed with kim jong and Iran is neither giving you a good causus belli nor logistically feesible).

    So why the need to increase spending by more then 10% particularly when you are slashing any support for the troops on things they actually would benefit from? Like you know: a functional VA.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    Trump also managed to sign the defense act named for John McCain and talk about it for half an hour without mentioning John McCain once. He even referred to the act by a generic name in his speech. So on top of his rubbish joke, he failed to mention the veteran with terminal cancer while signing an act named in his honor.


    john McCain sucks, this bill was horseshit, and I hate that the media felt the need to talk about this insignificant breach of decorum rather than the fact that they decided to throw another seventy fucking billion dollars at the pentagon

    The Part I emphasize is the part that really baffles me; I know it's bordering on treason to question military expenditures, but someone needs to point out that aside from the sporadic bombing campaigns and spec ops that are the day to day affairs of the US government, you aren't actually in any major armed conflicts right now, nor are you in a position to actually start one with any of your likely foes (NK is basically safe since trump can't admit that he utterly failed with kim jong and Iran is neither giving you a good causus belli nor logistically feesible).

    So why the need to increase spending by more then 10% particularly when you are slashing any support for the troops on things they actually would benefit from? Like you know: a functional VA.

    Defense contractors are really, really good at bribes.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    Yeah hes joking, but its a dogshit joke that shouldnt be made, and its a joke about how his shitty policies are hurting ordinary people, and that ordinary people should have to sacrifice for the good of his rich friends and his own ego ( dont worry ,he knows that sounds silly, thats why hes joking! even though, hes said basically the same thing seriously at other times)

    Its a dumb joke that gets worse the more you think about who is saying it and why.

    im sure if obama had made the same joke the right would have understood and laughed it off of course

    This is all valid but I honestly don't think it was the intent. He's not smart enough for that. To him he just told a zinger that I'm sure he'll brag about to his rich friends.

    I don't like it but I don't think it was intended the way it was taken even if he does believe shit like this. He thought it was the best joke of the year.

    His intent doesn't matter. He stood in front of a bunch of military members and directly questioned their loyalty and patriotism because they weren't willing to accept a less pay.
    Yeah it's a dumb soundbite...about how these people aren't patriotic.
    Yeah he probably meant it as a joke....about how these people aren't patriotic.

    "He didn't mean to insult them" is ridiculous when it's such a targeted attack, and when this man has made a career of making targeted attacks.

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    John McCain does suck but the ways Trump talks shit about him are pretty out of line.

    "failed to praise him" is not talking shit, this is a non-event, it does not matter even slightly

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    CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    Trump also managed to sign the defense act named for John McCain and talk about it for half an hour without mentioning John McCain once. He even referred to the act by a generic name in his speech. So on top of his rubbish joke, he failed to mention the veteran with terminal cancer while signing an act named in his honor.

    *snip*

    john McCain sucks, this bill was horseshit, and I hate that the media felt the need to talk about this insignificant breach of decorum rather than the fact that they decided to throw another seventy fucking billion dollars at the pentagon

    The Part I emphasize is the part that really baffles me; I know it's bordering on treason to question military expenditures, but someone needs to point out that aside from the sporadic bombing campaigns and spec ops that are the day to day affairs of the US government, you aren't actually in any major armed conflicts right now, nor are you in a position to actually start one with any of your likely foes (NK is basically safe since trump can't admit that he utterly failed with kim jong and Iran is neither giving you a good causus belli nor logistically feesible).

    So why the need to increase spending by more then 10% particularly when you are slashing any support for the troops on things they actually would benefit from? Like you know: a functional VA.

    I do just want to point out that the US military does more than just blow shit up. They do massive humanitarian\disaster relief missions.

    But I absolutely agree that we spend an absurd amount on defense, and no one is getting disaster relief from an F-35 or a stupid big pile of tanks.

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Gonna sneak this Q in here as we don't have a general military thread:

    Sanctions aside, why are we concerned about Turkey getting S-400s?

    Are we concerned the system will secretly report back by itself, or that the nature of the contract will allow Russia to openly collect this data?

    When I first heard about it, I thought Russia selling NATO their bleeding-edge air defense platform was an amazing espionage opportunity for us.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    [
    Gonna sneak this Q in here as we don't have a general military thread:

    Sanctions aside, why are we concerned about Turkey getting S-400s?

    Are we concerned the system will secretly report back by itself, or that the nature of the contract will allow Russia to openly collect this data?

    When I first heard about it, I thought Russia selling NATO their bleeding-edge air defense platform was an amazing espionage opportunity for us.

    It points towards greater co-operation between russia and turkey with the former being the state that the latter is nominally in a military alliance against.

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    [
    Gonna sneak this Q in here as we don't have a general military thread:

    Sanctions aside, why are we concerned about Turkey getting S-400s?

    Are we concerned the system will secretly report back by itself, or that the nature of the contract will allow Russia to openly collect this data?

    When I first heard about it, I thought Russia selling NATO their bleeding-edge air defense platform was an amazing espionage opportunity for us.

    It points towards greater co-operation between russia and turkey with the former being the state that the latter is nominally in a military alliance against.

    Yeah, had a think on it, and figured it's probably more about relationship dynamics than the missile system.
    (And this was therefore probably a better suited question for the FP thread that prompted it, so I'm going to uncrosspost it back there)

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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    Trump also managed to sign the defense act named for John McCain and talk about it for half an hour without mentioning John McCain once. He even referred to the act by a generic name in his speech. So on top of his rubbish joke, he failed to mention the veteran with terminal cancer while signing an act named in his honor.


    john McCain sucks, this bill was horseshit, and I hate that the media felt the need to talk about this insignificant breach of decorum rather than the fact that they decided to throw another seventy fucking billion dollars at the pentagon

    The Part I emphasize is the part that really baffles me; I know it's bordering on treason to question military expenditures, but someone needs to point out that aside from the sporadic bombing campaigns and spec ops that are the day to day affairs of the US government, you aren't actually in any major armed conflicts right now, nor are you in a position to actually start one with any of your likely foes (NK is basically safe since trump can't admit that he utterly failed with kim jong and Iran is neither giving you a good causus belli nor logistically feesible).

    So why the need to increase spending by more then 10% particularly when you are slashing any support for the troops on things they actually would benefit from? Like you know: a functional VA.

    Defense contractors are really, really good at bribes.

    Case in point:

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-f-35-14-trillion-dollar-national-disaster-19985

    Nearly 3 Decades

    $1.4 Trillion


    Can't operate in rain or sort of above medium humidity without its paint stripping off. The paint that is a functional part of its stealth functionality.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Lanz wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    Trump also managed to sign the defense act named for John McCain and talk about it for half an hour without mentioning John McCain once. He even referred to the act by a generic name in his speech. So on top of his rubbish joke, he failed to mention the veteran with terminal cancer while signing an act named in his honor.


    john McCain sucks, this bill was horseshit, and I hate that the media felt the need to talk about this insignificant breach of decorum rather than the fact that they decided to throw another seventy fucking billion dollars at the pentagon

    The Part I emphasize is the part that really baffles me; I know it's bordering on treason to question military expenditures, but someone needs to point out that aside from the sporadic bombing campaigns and spec ops that are the day to day affairs of the US government, you aren't actually in any major armed conflicts right now, nor are you in a position to actually start one with any of your likely foes (NK is basically safe since trump can't admit that he utterly failed with kim jong and Iran is neither giving you a good causus belli nor logistically feesible).

    So why the need to increase spending by more then 10% particularly when you are slashing any support for the troops on things they actually would benefit from? Like you know: a functional VA.

    Defense contractors are really, really good at bribes.

    Case in point:

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-f-35-14-trillion-dollar-national-disaster-19985

    Nearly 3 Decades

    $1.4 Trillion


    Can't operate in rain or sort of above medium humidity without its paint stripping off. The paint that is a functional part of its stealth functionality.

    FFS I hate this plane.

    Like I'm not even sure what the point of this plane was, but whatever the initial plan was... its apparently a bad plan cause we spent a trillion and apparently don't have the planes to show for it.


    Sleep on
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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    the purpose was to replace every other plane, which was a stupid idea from the start, especially since the one role it really must excel at in order to do the other things it needs to, air superiority, is better filled by the F-22, which itself is still better at it than every other fighter on the planet

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    MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    the purpose was to replace every other plane, which was a stupid idea from the start, especially since the one role it really must excel at in order to do the other things it needs to, air superiority, is better filled by the F-22, which itself is still better at it than every other fighter on the planet

    When it can fly that is.

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    They have fixed the problems with the f-22

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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    the purpose was to replace every other plane, which was a stupid idea from the start, especially since the one role it really must excel at in order to do the other things it needs to, air superiority, is better filled by the F-22, which itself is still better at it than every other fighter on the planet

    Remember when the ACU was supposed to replace all other camo?

    ytiuywkq60q9.png

    Oh god he blends in so well game over other nations

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Soldiers hated those, we had them begging to borrow our oldschool desert fatigues in iraq

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    The_InfidelThe_Infidel Registered User regular
    Gonna sneak this Q in here as we don't have a general military thread:

    Sanctions aside, why are we concerned about Turkey getting S-400s?

    Are we concerned the system will secretly report back by itself, or that the nature of the contract will allow Russia to openly collect this data?

    When I first heard about it, I thought Russia selling NATO their bleeding-edge air defense platform was an amazing espionage opportunity for us.

    1) The system can't integrate with NATO systems
    2) It is another Russian wedge between Turkey and NATO / the US

    Russian military sales of current gen tech to an ally would seem to be ripe for exploitation by Western intelligence services (and for a couple of specific reasons, it could be quite valuable), but this is a case where the messaging and political aspects seem to outweigh intelligence considerations.

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Shorty wrote: »
    the purpose was to replace every other plane, which was a stupid idea from the start, especially since the one role it really must excel at in order to do the other things it needs to, air superiority, is better filled by the F-22, which itself is still better at it than every other fighter on the planet

    Remember when the ACU was supposed to replace all other camo?

    ytiuywkq60q9.png

    Oh god he blends in so well game over other nations

    At least it wasn't the ABU, which when washed in the wrong detergent turned into a one man rave when viewed through IR.
    110107-F-1876C-013.JPG

    Dedwrekka on
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    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    the purpose was to replace every other plane, which was a stupid idea from the start, especially since the one role it really must excel at in order to do the other things it needs to, air superiority, is better filled by the F-22, which itself is still better at it than every other fighter on the planet

    Remember when the ACU was supposed to replace all other camo?

    ytiuywkq60q9.png

    Oh god he blends in so well game over other nations

    WhIle it may look silly my understanding is they did a lot of testing and it actually does work. I feel like I remember seeing a thing on TV about how they debeloved camo

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Iirc it works in a similar way to the old naval zebra camo. And is actually really effective in many settings.

    wbBv3fj.png
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    RickRude wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    the purpose was to replace every other plane, which was a stupid idea from the start, especially since the one role it really must excel at in order to do the other things it needs to, air superiority, is better filled by the F-22, which itself is still better at it than every other fighter on the planet

    Remember when the ACU was supposed to replace all other camo?

    ytiuywkq60q9.png

    Oh god he blends in so well game over other nations

    WhIle it may look silly my understanding is they did a lot of testing and it actually does work. I feel like I remember seeing a thing on TV about how they debeloved camo

    I think I recall seeing that it tested as 2nd or 3rd best in all terrains whereas other patterns did much better, but only in particular settings rather than all of them. Which, camo seems like the kind of thing you want to min/max for the theatre rather than averaging out.

    moniker on
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