Options

Donald Trump Attacks [The US Military]... Again

13435373940

Posts

  • Options
    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    I'd call it a net good that there was too much internal resistance/red tape to have the parade.

  • Options
    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here

  • Options
    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • Options
    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    Yup. I bet there was a lot of creative accounting to reach that $90 million figure, and a lot of laughter when the press got hold of it.

  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

  • Options
    mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.
    Hopefully. It's not just a colossal waste of money, it's on the one day of the year and century you absolutely should not have a military parade, or anything else that is not anti-war.

  • Options
    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure. Which, I guess we always knew existed anyways since Trump is now CIC, but Jesus Christ, how hard would it be to not fuck up a military parade? Is this how the US government functions now, wherein sabotage of the executive branch is the way to keep things running?

    I guess I knew the answer to that one too all along, but this shining example of the sheer uselessness of the Trump administration is still shocking. Especially coming over from the Foreign Policy thread wherein we're discussing an idiotic op-ed that suggests a ack-basswards, multi-step strategy for containing North Korea, and I'm like, "Move two carrier groups to Asia? THEY CAN'T EVEN HOLD A FUCKING PARADE!"

    hippofant on
  • Options
    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    mrondeau wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.
    Hopefully. It's not just a colossal waste of money, it's on the one day of the year and century you absolutely should not have a military parade, or anything else that is not anti-war.

    Every hometown in America knows how to call up the local veterans groups and get some soldiers marching in their parade. Doesn't cost anyone a cent other than maybe some tailoring to get the uniform to fit and gas money. Trump wanted a fucking Soviet-style parade of force with tanks tearing up the streets.

  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure.

    We really are just coming to a completely different conclusion from the same set of facts. The highest levels of the US military told the President no in the only way they can, because the President deserved to be told no for this stupid fucking idea. That isn't inept.

    moniker on
  • Options
    mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    mrondeau wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.
    Hopefully. It's not just a colossal waste of money, it's on the one day of the year and century you absolutely should not have a military parade, or anything else that is not anti-war.

    Every hometown in America knows how to call up the local veterans groups and get some soldiers marching in their parade. Doesn't cost anyone a cent other than maybe some tailoring to get the uniform to fit and gas money. Trump wanted a fucking Soviet-style parade of force with tanks tearing up the streets.

    It's remembrance day. It's a day of mourning and contemplating the absurdity of war. Not a day for parades. It's downright blasphemous.

  • Options
    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Let's make something clear

    If there is one thing in the world the military hates it's marching parades in dress uniforms

    Joseph Heller spent an entire chapter of Catch-22 dedicated to this and 57 years later it's still true

    What I'm getting at here is there's a startling similarity between Trump and Lieutenant General Scheisskopf

  • Options
    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    moniker wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure.

    We really are just coming to a completely different conclusion from the same set of facts. The highest levels of the US military told the President no in the only way they can, because the President deserved to be told no for this stupid fucking idea. That isn't inept.

    The President is the top (I think). And it'd actually be one thing if it was the Joint Chiefs telling the President no, but this isn't actually that. It's someone further down in the command chain fudging some numbers and then releasing them to the media to adjust the President's calculus. Even if that person was ordered to do so, this is not how things are supposed to work. Have a parade! Or don't have a parade! Don't bobble the baby and throw it back and forth between you! (After dousing it in kerosene.)

    hippofant on
  • Options
    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure. Which, I guess we always knew existed anyways since Trump is now CIC, but Jesus Christ, how hard would it be to not fuck up a military parade? Is this how the US government functions now, wherein sabotage of the executive branch is the way to keep things running?

    I guess I knew the answer to that one too all along, but this shining example of the sheer uselessness of the Trump administration is still shocking. Especially coming over from the Foreign Policy thread wherein we're discussing an idiotic op-ed that suggests a ack-basswards, multi-step strategy for containing North Korea, and I'm like, "Move two carrier groups to Asia? THEY CAN'T EVEN HOLD A FUCKING PARADE!"

    Dude we could be marching out there in two days. I'm not boasting or anything, march drills are cake. If we dropped everything else we were doing it'd be a pain for everyone to remember proper commands but that's a couple hours of whatever.

    However I and everyone else in the military have real jobs with real life consequences when we leave them. Which means hiring someone on short notice for short term to do those jobs. And that ain't cheap.

  • Options
    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    The parade would be a waste of money and send the wrong message. If it was killed it was killed for a good reason. I don't see what you are arguing for Hippo. You think we should have a jinjoistic jerk parade?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Options
    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure.

    We really are just coming to a completely different conclusion from the same set of facts. The highest levels of the US military told the President no in the only way they can, because the President deserved to be told no for this stupid fucking idea. That isn't inept.

    The President is the top (I think). And it'd actually be one thing if it was the Joint Chiefs telling the President no, but this isn't actually that. It's someone further down in the command chain fudging some numbers and then releasing them to the media to adjust the President's calculus. Even if that person was ordered to do so, this is not how things are supposed to work.

    Well, the problem is that you can't say "No, Mr President, we won't do that".

    So you do this instead.

    It's like how ICE resisted Obama's orders to concentrate on criminals, gangs and cartels. Sometimes bureaucracy can be used for good, sometimes for evil.

  • Options
    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    moniker wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure.

    We really are just coming to a completely different conclusion from the same set of facts. The highest levels of the US military told the President no in the only way they can, because the President deserved to be told no for this stupid fucking idea. That isn't inept.

    Yeah, this has zero to do with the operational capability of the U.S. military. It's a sign of the political clusterfuck that's happening in Washington, but the ability of the bureaucracy to kill an insanely stupid and expensive idea from a politician via creative budgeting is actually a sign of a healthy state. It's the really shitty ones where everyone jumps over themselves to execute Dear Leader's orders lest they be executed.

    Phillishere on
  • Options
    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure.

    We really are just coming to a completely different conclusion from the same set of facts. The highest levels of the US military told the President no in the only way they can, because the President deserved to be told no for this stupid fucking idea. That isn't inept.

    The President is the top (I think). And it'd actually be one thing if it was the Joint Chiefs telling the President no, but this isn't actually that. It's someone further down in the command chain fudging some numbers and then releasing them to the media to adjust the President's calculus. Even if that person was ordered to do so, this is not how things are supposed to work. Have a parade! Or don't have a parade! Don't bobble the baby and throw it back and forth between you! (After dousing it in kerosene.)

    You have identified that yes we are in not normal times because the CIC is an idiot who announced this on Twitter and doesn't know anything about how government or the military works

    That doesn't mean our military leaders are inept

    Working within a currently fucked up admin to stall this stupid idea out is an accomplishment

  • Options
    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure.

    We really are just coming to a completely different conclusion from the same set of facts. The highest levels of the US military told the President no in the only way they can, because the President deserved to be told no for this stupid fucking idea. That isn't inept.

    The President is the top (I think). And it'd actually be one thing if it was the Joint Chiefs telling the President no, but this isn't actually that. It's someone further down in the command chain fudging some numbers and then releasing them to the media to adjust the President's calculus. Even if that person was ordered to do so, this is not how things are supposed to work.

    That is how bureaucracies work.

  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    hippofant wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure.

    We really are just coming to a completely different conclusion from the same set of facts. The highest levels of the US military told the President no in the only way they can, because the President deserved to be told no for this stupid fucking idea. That isn't inept.

    The President is the top (I think). And it'd actually be one thing if it was the Joint Chiefs telling the President no, but this isn't actually that. It's someone further down in the command chain fudging some numbers and then releasing them to the media to adjust the President's calculus. Even if that person was ordered to do so, this is not how things are supposed to work. Have a parade! Or don't have a parade! Don't bobble the baby and throw it back and forth between you! (After dousing it in alcohol and setting it on fire.)

    We aren't a parliamentary system, and the President isn't the Government. He is Commander in Chief but that doesn't make the military his toy to play with as he sees fit. Hell, they aren't even legally his military. It's Congress' military, they just let him borrow it.

    moniker on
  • Options
    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    And I mean "this is just embarrassing" basically applies to

    /Gestures at everything happening in our government

    So yeah

  • Options
    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Preacher wrote: »
    The parade would be a waste of money and send the wrong message. If it was killed it was killed for a good reason. I don't see what you are arguing for Hippo. You think we should have a jinjoistic jerk parade?

    No. I'm saying that when executives/leaders/Presidents say we're doing X, and then they can't get their shit together to do X, it's fucking embarrassing. And the simpler X should have been to do, the more embarrassing it is. The same man who controls the world's most potent nuclear arsenal can't coerce his underlings to throw him a parade.

    The most powerful man on the planet is eating glue. Or he would be eating glue, if he could find the damn glue, but his generals have hid the glue from him so now he's just going to pout about not being allowed to eat glue.

    hippofant on
  • Options
    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    The parade would be a waste of money and send the wrong message. If it was killed it was killed for a good reason. I don't see what you are arguing for Hippo. You think we should have a jinjoistic jerk parade?

    No. I'm saying that when executives/leaders/Presidents say we're doing X, and then they can't get their shit together to do X, it's fucking embarrassing. And the simpler X should have been to do, the more embarrassing it is. The same man who controls the world's most potent nuclear arsenal can't coerce his underlings to throw him a parade.

    The most powerful man on the planet is eating glue.

    Hey Hey Hey.

    He's eating paste.

  • Options
    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Edit: Misunderstood

    Quid on
  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure.

    We really are just coming to a completely different conclusion from the same set of facts. The highest levels of the US military told the President no in the only way they can, because the President deserved to be told no for this stupid fucking idea. That isn't inept.

    The President is the top (I think). And it'd actually be one thing if it was the Joint Chiefs telling the President no, but this isn't actually that. It's someone further down in the command chain fudging some numbers and then releasing them to the media to adjust the President's calculus. Even if that person was ordered to do so, this is not how things are supposed to work.

    That is how bureaucracies work.

    And the fact that the President doesn't realize the importance of controlling the bureaucracy (he didn't staff out undersecretaries) demonstrates the problem with him rather than the Government necessarily.

  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    The parade would be a waste of money and send the wrong message. If it was killed it was killed for a good reason. I don't see what you are arguing for Hippo. You think we should have a jinjoistic jerk parade?

    No. I'm saying that when executives/leaders/Presidents say we're doing X, and then they can't get their shit together to do X, it's fucking embarrassing. And the simpler X should have been to do, the more embarrassing it is. The same man who controls the world's most potent nuclear arsenal can't coerce his underlings to throw him a parade.

    The most powerful man on the planet is eating glue. Or he would be eating glue, if he could find the damn glue, but his generals have hid the glue from him so now he's just going to pout about not being allowed to eat glue.

    Yes, President Donald Trump is an embarrassment.

  • Options
    mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure.

    We really are just coming to a completely different conclusion from the same set of facts. The highest levels of the US military told the President no in the only way they can, because the President deserved to be told no for this stupid fucking idea. That isn't inept.

    The President is the top (I think). And it'd actually be one thing if it was the Joint Chiefs telling the President no, but this isn't actually that. It's someone further down in the command chain fudging some numbers and then releasing them to the media to adjust the President's calculus. Even if that person was ordered to do so, this is not how things are supposed to work. Have a parade! Or don't have a parade! Don't bobble the baby and throw it back and forth between you! (After dousing it in alcohol and setting it on fire.)

    We aren't a parliamentary system, and the President isn't the government. He is Commander in Chief but that doesn't make the military his toy to play with as he sees fit. Hell, they aren't even legally his military. It's Congress' military, they just let him borrow it.
    Hum, the US President has more control over the US military than the Prime Minister in any parliamentary system I'm aware off.

    For example, the correct answer if Trudeau gives an order is to ignore it, since he's not in the chain of command. If Trudeau want something done, he has to ask the Minister of Defence, who then ask the Chief of the Defence Staff.
    The Chief of the Defence Staff then gets to issue orders, assuming everything is compatible with the applicable laws and regulations, of course.

  • Options
    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure.

    We really are just coming to a completely different conclusion from the same set of facts. The highest levels of the US military told the President no in the only way they can, because the President deserved to be told no for this stupid fucking idea. That isn't inept.

    The President is the top (I think). And it'd actually be one thing if it was the Joint Chiefs telling the President no, but this isn't actually that. It's someone further down in the command chain fudging some numbers and then releasing them to the media to adjust the President's calculus. Even if that person was ordered to do so, this is not how things are supposed to work. Have a parade! Or don't have a parade! Don't bobble the baby and throw it back and forth between you! (After dousing it in kerosene.)

    Maybe, maybe not.

    It could be there's estimates ranging from the absolute minimum a parade would cost, assuming no infrastructure damage, civilian lawsuits, heavy equipment repairs, railroad repairs, fuel, railing the tanks and support personnel, lodging, and especially size of the parade. All the way to the other end, where shit is at the far end of expensive. It's quite possible the 100 million is from the far end of the estimate range. We really don't know.

    There is a vast gulf between passive resistance and ineptitude.

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    The parade would be a waste of money and send the wrong message. If it was killed it was killed for a good reason. I don't see what you are arguing for Hippo. You think we should have a jinjoistic jerk parade?

    No. I'm saying that when executives/leaders/Presidents say we're doing X, and then they can't get their shit together to do X, it's fucking embarrassing. And the simpler X should have been to do, the more embarrassing it is. The same man who controls the world's most potent nuclear arsenal can't coerce his underlings to throw him a parade.

    The most powerful man on the planet is eating glue. Or he would be eating glue, if he could find the damn glue, but his generals have hid the glue from him so now he's just going to pout about not being allowed to eat glue.

    And this is where you fundamentally are not understanding what is going on. Nobody "can't get their shit together to do X" here. The military is actively trying not to do X via passive bureaucratic resistance. There is no "can't" here.

    Except, I guess, in that the logistical difficulties of the kind of parade Trump wants are very real, in that it would apparently literally destroy the paved roads in DC. But that's more that it's a stupid fucking idea.

  • Options
    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Any delay of this parade should be considered a small victory of the American ideal over rampant tyranny.

  • Options
    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    hippofant wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Pentagon postpones Trump's military parade

    Even the Pentagon wants to wait for Mueller to finish?

    This is just embarrassing. The United States of America, officially, can no longer get its shit together to throw a fucking military parade. In Third World countries, these things are done once a year like clockwork, but nobody at the Trump White House nor the Trump Pentagon has any damn clue what the fuck is going on in their own damn houses.

    I would posit the Pentagon knows exactly what is going on here
    More likely the career people at the Pentagon were actively working against this nonsense.

    My wording might have been technically incorrect, but from a wider point of view, it doesn't really matter. Like... when this is happening:
    moniker wrote: »
    On the contrary. I think the career staff at the Pentagon knew exactly what the fuck was going on and exactly how to sabotage it.

    It's an example of total ineptitude occurring at the highest levels of the US's military command structure.

    We really are just coming to a completely different conclusion from the same set of facts. The highest levels of the US military told the President no in the only way they can, because the President deserved to be told no for this stupid fucking idea. That isn't inept.

    The President is the top (I think). And it'd actually be one thing if it was the Joint Chiefs telling the President no, but this isn't actually that. It's someone further down in the command chain fudging some numbers and then releasing them to the media to adjust the President's calculus. Even if that person was ordered to do so, this is not how things are supposed to work. Have a parade! Or don't have a parade! Don't bobble the baby and throw it back and forth between you! (After dousing it in kerosene.)

    Maybe, maybe not.

    It could be there's estimates ranging from the absolute minimum a parade would cost, assuming no infrastructure damage, civilian lawsuits, heavy equipment repairs, railroad repairs, fuel, railing the tanks and support personnel, lodging, and especially size of the parade. All the way to the other end, where shit is at the far end of expensive. It's quite possible the 100 million is from the far end of the estimate range. We really don't know.

    There is a vast gulf between passive resistance and ineptitude.

    ...so then we're looking at about 100-102.5, as long as there's no fuel leak.

    Now, if the fuel tanks were ruptured in the crash, then the ensuing fire would either cause the building to collapse on this children's hospital, or on the Smithsonian-

    *cough*

    's new day care center. So, assuming an average settlement of...

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • Options
    CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    The parade would be a waste of money and send the wrong message. If it was killed it was killed for a good reason. I don't see what you are arguing for Hippo. You think we should have a jinjoistic jerk parade?

    No. I'm saying that when executives/leaders/Presidents say we're doing X, and then they can't get their shit together to do X, it's fucking embarrassing. And the simpler X should have been to do, the more embarrassing it is. The same man who controls the world's most potent nuclear arsenal can't coerce his underlings to throw him a parade.

    The most powerful man on the planet is eating glue. Or he would be eating glue, if he could find the damn glue, but his generals have hid the glue from him so now he's just going to pout about not being allowed to eat glue.

    That is the single most reassuring thing I've seen on these forums since 2016.

  • Options
    Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    (Some of these roads, like Pennsylvania Ave, could use the work anyway)

    A part of being president is the relationships you have with various members of your administration. Knowing people across the US in different fields and being able to communicate a shared vision. Doing things yourself as President isn’t possible if you want things to get done. You need to have these relationships with people over decades so they know what to do, whether you order it or not.

    Even if you could get staff behind the shared vision of “bring glory to the Trump brand”, Trump isn’t the guy to make that happen. Bully tactics for vainglorious ends don’t work on a multi-layered complex administration. Fit more for a vaguely acceptable criminal empire, or barbarian horde.

    VRXwDW7.png
  • Options
    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    The American legion had this to say which I liked

    "The American Legion appreciates that our President wants to show in a dramatic fashion our nation's support for our troops," American Legion national commander Denise Rohan said in a statement. "However, until such time as we can celebrate victory in the War on Terrorism and bring our military home, we think the parade money would be better spent fully funding the Department of Veteran Affairs and giving our troops and their families the best care possible"

  • Options
    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    good for them, it's about time the veterans organizations said something useful

  • Options
    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Good.

    Now... go ahead, Trump. Give into your desires to pick a fight with a respectfully worded statement from a veterans organization.

    There's no possible downside! I expect his best 4am Tweetstorm on the topic to really set the bar for discourse!

    (I'll save some people the trouble of posting that even this kind of acting out wouldn't cause a blip with his base)

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • Options
    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    good for them, it's about time the veterans organizations said something useful
    “The disgusting displays of hatred and bigotry on display in Charlottesville dishonor all veterans who fought and died to stamp out fascism,” American Legion National Commander Charles Schmidt said in a statement two days after the violent protests in Virginia.

    “Americans fought fascism and crushed the Nazis in WWII, and anyone who waves a Nazi flag on our soil is, by very definition, anti-American.”

    ...

    Vietnam Veterans of America president John Rowan issued a statement noting that “if there are any VVA members who harbor any of these bigoted ideologies, they are encouraged to turn in their membership cards. We did not don the uniform and serve our country to enable the acceptance of intolerance.”

    ...

    Officials at Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America called the actions of the extremists “detestable,” “cowardly” and “un-American.”

    “Veterans come from all backgrounds, represent the diversity of America and have stood together against our enemies overseas,” said Paul Rieckhoff, founder and CEO of IAVA. “And we will stand together now against intolerance, hatred and violence here now at home.”
    https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/08/14/vets-groups-decry-hatred-racism-in-wake-of-charlottesville-violence/

  • Options
    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    Good.

    Now... go ahead, Trump. Give into your desires to pick a fight with a respectfully worded statement from a veterans organization.

    There's no possible downside! I expect his best 4am Tweetstorm on the topic to really set the bar for discourse!

    (I'll save some people the trouble of posting that even this kind of acting out wouldn't cause a blip with his base)

    I'm not going to argue that there's no downside for his voting base.
    However I will point out that he has already picked fights with veterans groups multiple times during the campaign and after election. Including fighting them in his attempts to privatize the VA healthcare system.

  • Options
    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    good for them, it's about time the veterans organizations said something useful
    “The disgusting displays of hatred and bigotry on display in Charlottesville dishonor all veterans who fought and died to stamp out fascism,” American Legion National Commander Charles Schmidt said in a statement two days after the violent protests in Virginia.

    “Americans fought fascism and crushed the Nazis in WWII, and anyone who waves a Nazi flag on our soil is, by very definition, anti-American.”

    ...

    Vietnam Veterans of America president John Rowan issued a statement noting that “if there are any VVA members who harbor any of these bigoted ideologies, they are encouraged to turn in their membership cards. We did not don the uniform and serve our country to enable the acceptance of intolerance.”

    ...

    Officials at Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America called the actions of the extremists “detestable,” “cowardly” and “un-American.”

    “Veterans come from all backgrounds, represent the diversity of America and have stood together against our enemies overseas,” said Paul Rieckhoff, founder and CEO of IAVA. “And we will stand together now against intolerance, hatred and violence here now at home.”
    https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/08/14/vets-groups-decry-hatred-racism-in-wake-of-charlottesville-violence/

    Was it really a whole year ago? Dang.

  • Options
    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    Good.

    Now... go ahead, Trump. Give into your desires to pick a fight with a respectfully worded statement from a veterans organization.

    There's no possible downside! I expect his best 4am Tweetstorm on the topic to really set the bar for discourse!

    (I'll save some people the trouble of posting that even this kind of acting out wouldn't cause a blip with his base)

    I'm not going to argue that there's no downside for his voting base.
    However I will point out that he has already picked fights with veterans groups multiple times during the campaign and after election. Including fighting them in his attempts to privatize the VA healthcare system.

    Oh, I was explicitly thinking of his battle with the Khans. I’m aware he has and that his base suddenly didn’t care.

    Hence my caveat.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • Options
    Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Wasn't sure which thread this belongs in, but seeing as it pertains to a former Admiral I guess this fits:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/revoke-my-security-clearance-too-mr-president/2018/08/16/8b149b02-a178-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f005ca54ae8f
    William H. McRaven, a retired Navy admiral, was commander of the U.S. Joint Special Operations Command from 2011 to 2014. He oversaw the 2011 Navy SEAL raid in Pakistan that killed al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

    Dear Mr. President:

    Former CIA director John Brennan, whose security clearance you revoked on Wednesday, is one of the finest public servants I have ever known. Few Americans have done more to protect this country than John. He is a man of unparalleled integrity, whose honesty and character have never been in question, except by those who don’t know him.

    Therefore, I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency.

    Like most Americans, I had hoped that when you became president, you would rise to the occasion and become the leader this great nation needs.

    A good leader tries to embody the best qualities of his or her organization. A good leader sets the example for others to follow. A good leader always puts the welfare of others before himself or herself.

    Your leadership, however, has shown little of these qualities. Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation.

    If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be.

    #MineToo is now a thing on twitter. As usual, don't read the comments.

    Mr Ray on
This discussion has been closed.