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Donald Trump Attacks [The US Military]... Again

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    No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    From your lips to god's ears, soldier.

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    rpshoggothrpshoggoth Registered User regular
    My little brother died in 2009. It wasn't a combat related death, but he was deployed. My mother was definitely not contacted by the President. That's not a sore point, just a statement. Everyone, and I mean everyone from the state department to the military to the German police in Landshtul, were kind, respectful, gentle and just as gracious as you could possibly imagine.

    There are so many people out there who deal with this, and do it with a grace that makes the pain bearable.

    I just want to point out that there is some very real decency out there and for us, it was everywhere we looked.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    I shudder to think what will happen when he awards a Congressional Medal of Honor. His vaingloriousness will probably cause him to take some form of credit for it, and not realize that the act meriting the award is probably the worst day of that servicemember's life.

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    David_TDavid_T A fashion yes-man is no good to me. Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered User regular
    I can't believe the White House used as an actual excuse "The check is in the mail".

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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    I shudder to think what will happen when he awards a Congressional Medal of Honor. His vaingloriousness will probably cause him to take some form of credit for it, and not realize that the act meriting the award is probably the worst day of that servicemember's life.

    He will almost certainly "jokingly" ask to get one too

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    WinklebottomWinklebottom Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    I shudder to think what will happen when he awards a Congressional Medal of Honor. His vaingloriousness will probably cause him to take some form of credit for it, and not realize that the act meriting the award is probably the worst day of that servicemember's life.

    I believe he has already given one, to a Vietnam Veteran. It was a medic that continually ran into enemy fire to offer aid to wounded comrades, even after being wounded himself.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Jesus fucking christ. Trump managed to do the charity promise lie shit.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-offered-a-grieving-military-father-25000-in-a-call-but-didnt-follow-through/2017/10/18/8d4cbc8c-b43a-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html
    Trump offered a grieving military father $25,000 in a call, but didn’t follow through
    President Trump, in a personal phone call to a grieving military father, offered him $25,000 and said he would direct his staff to establish an online fundraiser for the family, but neither happened, the father said.

    Chris Baldridge, the father of Army Cpl. Dillon Baldridge, told The Washington Post that Trump called him at his home in Zebulon, N.C., a few weeks after his 22-year-old son and two fellow soldiers were gunned down by an Afghan police officer in a suspected insider attack June 10. Their phone conversation lasted about 15 minutes, Baldridge said, and centered for a time on the father’s struggle with the manner in which his son was killed.
    In his call with Trump, Baldridge, a construction worker, expressed frustration with the military’s survivor benefits program. Because his ex-wife was listed as their son’s beneficiary, she was expected to receive the Pentagon’s $100,000 death gratuity — even though “I can barely rub two nickels together,” he told Trump.

    The president’s response shocked him.

    “He said, ‘I’m going to write you a check out of my personal account for $25,000,’ and I was just floored,” Baldridge said. “I could not believe he was saying that, and I wish I had it recorded because the man did say this. He said, ‘No other president has ever done something like this,’ but he said, ‘I’m going to do it.’ “

    The White House declined to comment on Baldridge’s account.
    In all, seven Gold Star families contacted by The Post said they have had phone conversations with Trump. Most said they appreciated the gesture. Four families said they have not received a call and were upset. One said Trump had not called but that they knew the late soldier would not want his death politicized. An additional family said that it had corresponded with the White House, but declined to elaborate.

    Edit:
    But White House spokeswoman Lindsay Walters said in a statement Wednesday afternoon, “The check has been sent. It’s disgusting that the media is taking something that should be recognized as a generous and sincere gesture, made privately by the President, and using it to advance the media’s biased agenda. “
    Given how Trump acted in the past with charity stuff, I am pretty sure they sent it today.

    That's what a CNN reporter is reporting:

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Now I have to wonder if its actually in the mail even. Like after being caught in a bald face lie, will he just make another one.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Now I have to wonder if its actually in the mail even. Like after being caught in a bald face lie, will he just make another one.

    And if it arrives, will it bounce?

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    ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    SteevL wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Now I have to wonder if its actually in the mail even. Like after being caught in a bald face lie, will he just make another one.

    And if it arrives, will it bounce?

    Also, is the check from Trump's campaign funds or one of his charities?

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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    It's not everybody but the current Navy's E-6 group of about 2,400 on FB is not taking kindly to this.

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    EvermournEvermourn Registered User regular
    The thought of being someone who voted for Trump but who is also upset by this is difficult to parse. This is who you voted for, he wasn't shy about it.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Can you be stripped of rank after you retire? Because Kelly allowing this bullshit seems like he should be.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    David_T wrote: »
    I can't believe the White House used as an actual excuse "The check is in the mail".

    Can't you, though?

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/18/politics/donald-trump-john-kelly-obama-phone-call/index.html
    Chief of Staff John Kelly told President Donald Trump that President Barack Obama never called him after his son's death prior to Trump raising the issue in a Tuesday radio interview, multiple White House officials told CNN.

    But, according to these sources, Kelly never thought the President would use that information publicly.

    Kelly and much of the White House were caught off-guard by Trump's comments, one official said, struck by how the President took a story Kelly has tried to keep private -- the death of his son -- and used it to defend his handling of four soldiers killed in Niger.

    [...]
    I cannot believe Kelly was that naive about Trump by that point, but Trump has a way of stripping the dignity of those around him.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/18/politics/donald-trump-john-kelly-obama-phone-call/index.html
    Chief of Staff John Kelly told President Donald Trump that President Barack Obama never called him after his son's death prior to Trump raising the issue in a Tuesday radio interview, multiple White House officials told CNN.

    But, according to these sources, Kelly never thought the President would use that information publicly.

    Kelly and much of the White House were caught off-guard by Trump's comments, one official said, struck by how the President took a story Kelly has tried to keep private -- the death of his son -- and used it to defend his handling of four soldiers killed in Niger.

    [...]
    I cannot believe Kelly was that naive about Trump by that point, but Trump has a way of stripping the dignity of those around him.

    I can. The solemnity of that kind of topic is something a lot of people would take for granted. That Trump isn't among them should be self evident, but it's hard to short circuit the part of your brain that assumes humanity in others.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    I mean, maybe Obama technically didn't call Kelly, but he talked to him in-person about it, right?

    And John Kelly, being a normal, empathetic human being, would probably assume most people wouldn't use that sort of technicality as a rhetorical weapon when it's so fucking obvious that Obama still did the right thing by him.

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    Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I mean, maybe Obama technically didn't call Kelly, but he talked to him in-person about it, right?

    Protocol would have been for Obama to call Kelly's wife (that is, the wife of the slain soldier). We know that Obama expressed condolences in person to Kelly the Elder at a later time. At least, so I've read it goes spouse - parent.

    Professor Phobos on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I mean, maybe Obama technically didn't call Kelly, but he talked to him in-person about it, right?

    And John Kelly, being a normal, empathetic human being, would probably assume most people wouldn't use that sort of technicality as a rhetorical weapon when it's so fucking obvious that Obama still did the right thing by him.

    He's on White House visitor logs for a breakfast for Gold Star families. He apparently sat at a table with Michelle Obama.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    SicariiSicarii The Roose is Loose Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Quid wrote: »
    It's not everybody but the current Navy's E-6 group of about 2,400 on FB is not taking kindly to this.

    Service members and veterans are familiar with serving as a prop for politicians. Just maybe in this case it's a lie on top of being so meaningless and blatant.

    These kind of errors are just so emblematic of the Trump administration. It's hard to imagine any other federally elected official making these kinds of unforced mistakes.

    Sicarii on
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Yeah, let's not suddenly pretend Kelly has a soul. He's one of Trump's chief enablers.

    What is this I don't even.
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Well I called that Kelly would back his lie, even if he's doing it as a weasel piece of shit "according to sources."

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    KiplingKipling Registered User regular
    Sicarii wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    It's not everybody but the current Navy's E-6 group of about 2,400 on FB is not taking kindly to this.

    Service members and veterans are familiar with serving as a prop for politicians. Just maybe in this case it's a lie on top of being so meaningless and blatant.

    These kind of errors are just so emblematic of the Trump administration. It's hard to imagine any other federally elected official making these kinds of unforced mistakes.

    It's full blown lies that Kelly has fixed the White House administration. It's a hollow shell of a organization, and that leads to mistakes.

    In terms of mentally horrible thoughts, Obama set up a policy so presidential condolence letters could be written to soldiers who committed suicide in the hope that people would be more open talking about it. I am simultaneously interested and horrified to know what Trump's response would be to that bit of information.

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    EvermournEvermourn Registered User regular
    I just realised my post above about a Trump voter being shocked by this was painfully naive. They knew he was like this, but he wasn't meant to behave like this to them, just to those "other people" who are dragging the country down. So of course they would be shocked.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    If this stays in the news enough, like with the Khans, his supporters will find a way to other the soldiers family to justify his behavior.

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Trump supporters only care about "their" soldiers. Basically being a soldier isnt going to win them over, they only care about their tribe.

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    DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    a
    SteevL wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Now I have to wonder if its actually in the mail even. Like after being caught in a bald face lie, will he just make another one.

    And if it arrives, will it bounce?

    Also, is the check from Trump's campaign funds or one of his charities?

    So receiving a check for 25k is its own set of problems. It's income, so to deposit it hes going to have to fill out IRS deposit forms since it will be a deposit over 10k, and then since its income, if he pays alimony, this could raise his payments because of new income, couldn't it?

    It would be hilarious if he went on cnn after recieving the check, and ripped it up saying it was insulting. But he's already said it would help and I wouldn't judge him for taking the money.

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Trump was essentially voted in because he was a competitive, insensitive asshole who did things his way and told things how they were and didnt care about others feelings. So now I find it a bit rich that his defenders and supporters are expecting us to believe that this is all just a politicised beat-up and that hes actually a caring and sympathetic individual who couldnt possibly be as insensitive and self-centered as the left is accusing him of being.

    Prohass on
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "Well, sure he is, but only to those other people, who deserve it! Not to us."

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    Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    SteevL wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Now I have to wonder if its actually in the mail even. Like after being caught in a bald face lie, will he just make another one.

    And if it arrives, will it bounce?

    It's going to end up being a coupon book of expired Trump Steaks vouchers.

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I was going to say that if the check isn't from the Trump Foundation then I'd donate money to the Trump Foundation, but that's ridiculous.
    I'll give an extra £20 to the next AGDQ, though.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    Trump was essentially voted in because he was a competitive, insensitive asshole who did things his way and told things how they were and didnt care about others feelings. So now I find it a bit rich that his defenders and supporters are expecting us to believe that this is all just a politicised beat-up and that hes actually a caring and sympathetic individual who couldnt possibly be as insensitive and self-centered as the left is accusing him of being.

    Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.

    And as far as his supporters expressing surprise at him suddenly behaving like a terrible person, well, he's the scorpion on the back of the frog. They just don't want to believe.

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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    So it looks like Trump was shamed into sending that $25,000 check to SGT Baldridge's father yesterday, at least that's what the report says on MaddowBlog.

    I do not think any President should have to pay out of pocket for the death of a service member, there are funds for families that includes death gratuity, life insurance, burial services, transportation of remains and family, and other services that a casualty assistance officer (I am certified to do this and also serve as a notification officer, but have yet to actually do it) will ensure the family has both knowledge of and access to. We look after our families very well when they lose someone.

    But I do believe that if you are the President and make a promise to those that lost a loved one, you should honor it.

    I do not want this to become a regular thing and I hope Trump learns a lesson from this, but I doubt he will.

    Link:

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/the-check-trump-promised-send-grieving-father-didnt

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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    The situation in this case is that the father's ex-wife was listed as the sole beneficiary
    In his call with Trump, Baldridge, a construction worker, expressed frustration with the military's survivor benefits program. Because his ex-wife was listed as their son's beneficiary, she was expected to receive the Pentagon's $100,000 death gratuity — even though "I can barely rub two nickels together," he told Trump.
    "He said, 'I'm going to write you a check out of my personal account for $25,000,' and I was just floored," Baldridge said. "I could not believe he was saying that, and I wish I had it recorded because the man did say this. He said, 'No other president has ever done something like this,' but he said, 'I'm going to do it.' "

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/national-security/trump-offered-a-grieving-military-father-25000-in-a-call-but-didnt-follow-through/2017/10/18/8d4cbc8c-b43a-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html

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    matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Trump offering the family money is completely fucked up. Not because he didn't actually send it, but because it's something dictators do. Insane, megalomaniac psychopaths do it. Fucking, Saddam Hussein did it. For suicide bombers. The same amount even!

    From 2002

    http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129914&page=1
    In the two years of the renewed Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Iraq has given Palestinian families more than $10 million, all according to a well-known scale. Families of suicide bombers get $25,000 each and families of those killed in confrontations with Israel get $10,000. Those who houses are destroyed by the Israeli military get $5,000 and those wounded by Israelis get $1,000.

    matt has a problem on
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    AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    He alone can fix

    And by fix we mean paper over the system’s general inadequacies by offering to personally pay token individuals while slashing overall benefits for everyone

    And by personally paying we mean loudly claiming credit and quietly not actually paying, unless somebody notices

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I still doubt he actually cut that check. He's literally claiming its in the mail, the oldest scam in the book.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Trump offering the family money is completely fucked up. Not because he didn't actually send it, but because it's something dictators do. Insane, megalomaniac psychopaths do it. Fucking, Saddam Hussein did it. For suicide bombers. The same amount even!

    From 2002

    http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129914&page=1
    In the two years of the renewed Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Iraq has given Palestinian families more than $10 million, all according to a well-known scale. Families of suicide bombers get $25,000 each and families of those killed in confrontations with Israel get $10,000. Those who houses are destroyed by the Israeli military get $5,000 and those wounded by Israelis get $1,000.

    Military benefits packages are common, the only thing that's questionable about Trump offering money is that he offered to do it personally and on a on a one on one basis and not to shore up programs that offer benefits to all survivors. Which honestly should be expanded to possibly cover parents/siblings and not just child/spouse. Single soldiers die too and their families are just as deserving of health/education/financial benefits.

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    Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    Much like the other many lies he had concerning fallen soldiers, he'll call that man a liar and say he did get his 25,000 dollars while never having written a check.

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    Evermourn wrote: »
    The thought of being someone who voted for Trump but who is also upset by this is difficult to parse. This is who you voted for, he wasn't shy about it.

    You might say they knew what they signed up for.

This discussion has been closed.