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Donald Trump Attacks [The US Military]... Again

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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    So It Goes wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Has the family said anything about Wilson going against their wishes? Why are we assuming they are against her going public?
    No. The family has said next to nothing, which, to me, implies they just want to be left alone.

    The family said that Wilson's account was correct and that in addition they did feel that Trump was disrespectful.
    That doesn't disprove what I said. I've not accused the congresswoman of lying or misrepresenting the facts.

    You’re spinning it in the worst possible light without anything concrete to back that up. You’re doing exactly what Kelly hoped would happen after his remarks today.
    It's not fair to say I'm spinning it. I have nothing to gain and I felt this may be what happened right after the information got out, before all the Kelly stuff.

    In the end, yeah, it's all speculative. I'm not saying this is fact or anything of that magnitude and apologize if it came off that way. I just know that the moment the story dropped, I had a slug in my gut making me feel sick that this family was thrust under the national spotlight and probably didn't want to be there.

    People love to speculate about how shitty Trump or his cronies can be, I just know how I felt and it made me look at the situation in a different light - it just happened to point at the left this time.

    I hope they're alright with how all of this is playing out and I hope the congresswoman spoke to the media with their blessing and the most noble of intentions.

    TehSpectre on
    9u72nmv0y64e.jpg
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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    KalTorak wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Has the family said anything about Wilson going against their wishes? Why are we assuming they are against her going public?
    No. The family has said next to nothing, which, to me, implies they just want to be left alone.

    Or they decided to let their family friend, the public figure whose job it is to influence politics and talk to the press.... be their public voice.

    How is that not at least an equally valid assumption?
    It is valid! The problem is my assumption is looked upon as worse instead of equally as possible. I gave as much reasoning as I could to explain the way I felt and how it could have gone.

    It's tough, because if you give any sort of leverage to my speculation, the family wouldn't want to muddy the waters by saying they weren't cool with what the congresswoman did if they did feel Trump should get some heat now that the information is out.

    They could easily say "We were cool with what the congresswoman said" and had the chance to, but just backed up her claim as "Yes, he said that" and nothing else.

    But nobody asked them whether they were cool with it, or mad about it. If they disapproved, they also could have easily said that. But why would they say "Yes, Trump said those terrible things to us, and by the way we're not mad about Wilson talking about it" unless prompted?
    Why wouldn't they want to clarify that they're cool with what the congresswoman said? It would immediately shift all the tone away from her and her dectractors and back to Trump? They made the statement after the congresswoman was getting heat. They just said she wasn't lying. I laid out why they may not have spoken more in my previous posts.

    This'll be my last post on the stuff. Not because I'm trying to curb discussion that isn't going my way, but I feel I can't say anything more than I've said. I'm mostly just repeating myself at this point.

    TehSpectre on
    9u72nmv0y64e.jpg
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Has the family said anything about Wilson going against their wishes? Why are we assuming they are against her going public?
    No. The family has said next to nothing, which, to me, implies they just want to be left alone.

    Or they decided to let their family friend, the public figure whose job it is to influence politics and talk to the press.... be their public voice.

    How is that not at least an equally valid assumption?
    It is valid! The problem is my assumption is looked upon as worse instead of equally as possible. I gave as much reasoning as I could to explain the way I felt and how it could have gone.

    It's tough, because if you give any sort of leverage to my speculation, the family wouldn't want to muddy the waters by saying they weren't cool with what the congresswoman did if they did feel Trump should get some heat now that the information is out.

    They could easily say "We were cool with what the congresswoman said" and had the chance to, but just backed up her claim as "Yes, he said that" and nothing else.

    But nobody asked them whether they were cool with it, or mad about it. If they disapproved, they also could have easily said that. But why would they say "Yes, Trump said those terrible things to us, and by the way we're not mad about Wilson talking about it" unless prompted?
    This'll be my last post on the stuff. Not because I'm trying to curb discussion that isn't going my way, but I feel I can't say anything more than I've said.

    Why wouldn't they want to clarify that they're cool with what the congresswoman said? It would immediately shift all the tone away from her and her dectractors and back to Trump? They made the statement after the congresswoman was getting heat. They just said she wasn't lying. I laid out why they may not have spoken more in my previous posts.

    Because Breitbart exists. Info Wars exists. AM radio exists. Fox News Channel exists. Reddit exists. 4chan exists. Hell, they're black, Stormfront exists.

    You are basically asking why they don't want to get doxxed and receive death threats.

    moniker on
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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    If the president had a shred of empathy and tact or treated the situation with the solemnity it deserved the family wouldn't be in the spotlight.
    But, like everything he touches, it turns into a clusterfuck and people involved are hurt.

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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Has the family said anything about Wilson going against their wishes? Why are we assuming they are against her going public?
    No. The family has said next to nothing, which, to me, implies they just want to be left alone.

    Or they decided to let their family friend, the public figure whose job it is to influence politics and talk to the press.... be their public voice.

    How is that not at least an equally valid assumption?
    It is valid! The problem is my assumption is looked upon as worse instead of equally as possible. I gave as much reasoning as I could to explain the way I felt and how it could have gone.

    It's tough, because if you give any sort of leverage to my speculation, the family wouldn't want to muddy the waters by saying they weren't cool with what the congresswoman did if they did feel Trump should get some heat now that the information is out.

    They could easily say "We were cool with what the congresswoman said" and had the chance to, but just backed up her claim as "Yes, he said that" and nothing else.

    But nobody asked them whether they were cool with it, or mad about it. If they disapproved, they also could have easily said that. But why would they say "Yes, Trump said those terrible things to us, and by the way we're not mad about Wilson talking about it" unless prompted?
    This'll be my last post on the stuff. Not because I'm trying to curb discussion that isn't going my way, but I feel I can't say anything more than I've said.

    Why wouldn't they want to clarify that they're cool with what the congresswoman said? It would immediately shift all the tone away from her and her dectractors and back to Trump? They made the statement after the congresswoman was getting heat. They just said she wasn't lying. I laid out why they may not have spoken more in my previous posts.

    Because Breitbart exists. Info Wars exists. AM radio exists. Fox News Channel exists. Reddit exists. 4chan exists. Hell, they're black, Stormfront exists.

    You are basically asking why they don't want to get doxxed and receive death threats.
    Hey, this isn't fair, it just as speculative as my shit and if you're going to go in on me for it don't do it back without accepting any of what I said could be true.

    9u72nmv0y64e.jpg
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    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Has the family said anything about Wilson going against their wishes? Why are we assuming they are against her going public?
    No. The family has said next to nothing, which, to me, implies they just want to be left alone.

    The family said that Wilson's account was correct and that in addition they did feel that Trump was disrespectful.

    Specifically her mother who was there spoke out saying that Wilson’s statements were accurate and that Trump disrespected their entire family, then later today her daughter spoke out and said that was exactly what the president told her.

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    Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Has the family said anything about Wilson going against their wishes? Why are we assuming they are against her going public?
    No. The family has said next to nothing, which, to me, implies they just want to be left alone.

    The family said that Wilson's account was correct and that in addition they did feel that Trump was disrespectful.
    That doesn't disprove what I said. I've not accused the congresswoman of lying or misrepresenting the facts.

    You’re spinning it in the worst possible light without anything concrete to back that up. You’re doing exactly what Kelly hoped would happen after his remarks today.
    It's not fair to say I'm spinning it. I have nothing to gain and I felt this may be what happened right after the information got out, before all the Kelly stuff.

    In the end, yeah, it's all speculative. I'm not saying this is fact or anything of that magnitude and apologize if it came off that way. I just know that the moment the story dropped, I had a slug in my gut making me feel sick that this family was thrust under the national spotlight and probably didn't want to be there.

    People love to speculate about how shitty Trump or his cronies can be, I just know how I felt and it made me look at the situation in a different light - it just happened to point at the left this time.

    I hope they're alright with how all of this is playing out and I hope the congresswoman spoke to the media with their blessing and the most noble of intentions.

    We speculate about how shitty Trump and his cronies are because they are more often than not shitty.

    Like the record is so overwhelmingly on shitty that the benefit of doubt is against Trump at this point.

    AND notice that Kelly didn't actually refute the story that was out there: That Trump disrespected the family of a fallen Soldier while talking to them over the phone. And that he promised 25k to another family but didn't give it until he was shamed by the media into doing it.

    Never the fuck mind how we learned about it. The President of the USA disrespected the family of fallen soldier while talking to them over phone. And that he promised 25k to another family but didn't give it until he was shamed by the media into doing it.

    I repeat it because that is the focus on the thread.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Has the family said anything about Wilson going against their wishes? Why are we assuming they are against her going public?
    No. The family has said next to nothing, which, to me, implies they just want to be left alone.

    Or they decided to let their family friend, the public figure whose job it is to influence politics and talk to the press.... be their public voice.

    How is that not at least an equally valid assumption?
    It is valid! The problem is my assumption is looked upon as worse instead of equally as possible. I gave as much reasoning as I could to explain the way I felt and how it could have gone.

    It's tough, because if you give any sort of leverage to my speculation, the family wouldn't want to muddy the waters by saying they weren't cool with what the congresswoman did if they did feel Trump should get some heat now that the information is out.

    They could easily say "We were cool with what the congresswoman said" and had the chance to, but just backed up her claim as "Yes, he said that" and nothing else.

    But nobody asked them whether they were cool with it, or mad about it. If they disapproved, they also could have easily said that. But why would they say "Yes, Trump said those terrible things to us, and by the way we're not mad about Wilson talking about it" unless prompted?
    This'll be my last post on the stuff. Not because I'm trying to curb discussion that isn't going my way, but I feel I can't say anything more than I've said.

    Why wouldn't they want to clarify that they're cool with what the congresswoman said? It would immediately shift all the tone away from her and her dectractors and back to Trump? They made the statement after the congresswoman was getting heat. They just said she wasn't lying. I laid out why they may not have spoken more in my previous posts.

    Because Breitbart exists. Info Wars exists. AM radio exists. Fox News Channel exists. Reddit exists. 4chan exists. Hell, they're black, Stormfront exists.

    You are basically asking why they don't want to get doxxed and receive death threats.
    Hey, this isn't fair, it just as speculative as my shit and if you're going to go in on me for it don't do it back without accepting any of what I said could be true.

    No, sadly it isn't:
    Sinking slowly into his sofa, Khan says the volume of abusive emails he received following the convention has declined, but he still deals with a couple of racist messages each day. He won’t show the worst, saying he erases them. In one new arrival on his iPhone, though, a man named Scott Glover felt the need to gleefully remind Khan: “Trump won the election and you, Hillary and the rest of the deplorable libs lost.”

    Rightwing websites including Breitbart News, run until recently by Trump’s top adviser, went after the Khans with undisguised venom following the convention

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/20/khizr-khan-vilified-trump-far-right-voice-heard

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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    I'm derailling the thread at this point and do not want to get into specifics on what each word I used and its meaning.

    Sorry.

    TehSpectre on
    9u72nmv0y64e.jpg
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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    A Congressperson consoling or otherwise being involved with a constituent's family whose son died while serving seems to be the type of thing that Congresspeople are supposed to do.

    Aegis on
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    A Congressperson consoling or otherwise being involved with a constituent's family whose son died while serving seems to be the type of thing that Congresspeople are supposed to do.

    Yeah, members of congress are regularly on the calls POTUS makes when a servicemember dies, or they call immediately afterwards.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Norms. We're not doing those anymore.

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Norms. We're not doing those anymore.

    Cliffs. They go over much better.

    Santa Claustrophobia on
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    yossarian_livesyossarian_lives Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    According to the reporting I've seen Rep. Wilson is a family friend of the Johnson’s, so her presence in the limo makes sense. Double so for her outrage. I can't believe people are accusing her of playing politics when Trump has acted like such an ass. Kelly has sacrificed his very last shreds of dignity and respectability defending this egregious bullshit.

    *Edit adding source*

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/19/what-john-kelly-got-wrong-about-rep-frederica-wilson-and-the-johnson-family/
    Perhaps Kelly, who also listened to the call, would be less stunned if he realized that Wilson's primary identity to the Johnson family isn't as a member of Congress. The Johnsons have known Wilson for decades — most of those years before the former educator moved to Washington to join Congress.

    yossarian_lives on
    "I see everything twice!"


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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    According to the reporting I've seen Rep. Wilson is a family friend of the Johnson’s, so her presence in the limo makes sense. Double so for her outrage. I can't believe people are accusing her of playing politics when Trump has acted like such an ass. Kelly has sacrificed his very last shreds of dignity and respectability defending this egregious bullshit.

    *Edit adding source*

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/19/what-john-kelly-got-wrong-about-rep-frederica-wilson-and-the-johnson-family/
    Perhaps Kelly, who also listened to the call, would be less stunned if he realized that Wilson's primary identity to the Johnson family isn't as a member of Congress. The Johnsons have known Wilson for decades — most of those years before the former educator moved to Washington to join Congress.

    Also, KELLY WAS ON THE CALL?! (I can't recall if we knew this already or maybe it was slipped in earlier or what, but...) What the ... how could he possibly have imagined that there might be someone else on this SUPER PRIVATE AND SACRED phone call he was ALSO listening in on??! (Or was he just listening to Trump's end of it?)

    hippofant on
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Has the family said anything about Wilson going against their wishes? Why are we assuming they are against her going public?
    No. The family has said next to nothing, which, to me, implies they just want to be left alone.

    Or they decided to let their family friend, the public figure whose job it is to influence politics and talk to the press.... be their public voice.

    How is that not at least an equally valid assumption?


    The family *has* been spoken to by members of the press, and nothing reported on that has indicated that Wilson was acting against their wishes. They haven't been on TV, and direct quotes have been limited, but what I have read suggests it was more than a one or two sentence confirmation and a hang up, but an actual conversation.

    So, no, those assumptions are not equally valid, the assumption that they are allowing the person they elected to be their voice actually BE their voice seems far more so.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    According to the reporting I've seen Rep. Wilson is a family friend of the Johnson’s, so her presence in the limo makes sense. Double so for her outrage. I can't believe people are accusing her of playing politics when Trump has acted like such an ass. Kelly has sacrificed his very last shreds of dignity and respectability defending this egregious bullshit.

    *Edit adding source*

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/19/what-john-kelly-got-wrong-about-rep-frederica-wilson-and-the-johnson-family/
    Perhaps Kelly, who also listened to the call, would be less stunned if he realized that Wilson's primary identity to the Johnson family isn't as a member of Congress. The Johnsons have known Wilson for decades — most of those years before the former educator moved to Washington to join Congress.

    Also, KELLY WAS ON THE CALL?! (I can't recall if we knew this already or maybe it was slipped in earlier or what, but...)

    Possibly in an (ultimately futile) attempt to keep his boss from fucking it up.

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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    According to the reporting I've seen Rep. Wilson is a family friend of the Johnson’s, so her presence in the limo makes sense. Double so for her outrage. I can't believe people are accusing her of playing politics when Trump has acted like such an ass. Kelly has sacrificed his very last shreds of dignity and respectability defending this egregious bullshit.

    *Edit adding source*

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/19/what-john-kelly-got-wrong-about-rep-frederica-wilson-and-the-johnson-family/
    Perhaps Kelly, who also listened to the call, would be less stunned if he realized that Wilson's primary identity to the Johnson family isn't as a member of Congress. The Johnsons have known Wilson for decades — most of those years before the former educator moved to Washington to join Congress.

    Also, KELLY WAS ON THE CALL?! (I can't recall if we knew this already or maybe it was slipped in earlier or what, but...) What the ... how could he possibly have imagined that there might be someone else on this SUPER PRIVATE AND SACRED phone call he was ALSO listening in on??! (Or was he just listening to Trump's end of it?)

    Which is why his song and dance today in front of the press was so transparently pathetic. My guess is that if he actually did go walk around Arlington cemetery, it wasn't to reflect on anything but the fact he had to go out and eat shit for this stupid child again.

    I don't know how many more times someone from this admin. can get up in public and play up how absolutely offended they are at the lack of decorum before a smiting bolt of lightning comes through ceiling.

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    DedmanWalkinDedmanWalkin Registered User regular
    I am just curious, given that that POTUS is in charge of the military, does that make him subject to military laws?

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    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    The President is not subject to the UCMJ, nor is any other civilian.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Civilian command means not subject to UCMJ

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    DedmanWalkinDedmanWalkin Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Civilian command means not subject to UCMJ
    knitdan wrote: »
    The President is not subject to the UCMJ, nor is any other civilian.

    Interesting, thanks for the information.

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Also, Commander in Chief is...mostly...ceremonial. it represents that the president sets military tasks. But it really was the latter half of the 20th century where it began to be fetishised as important.

    The more a president wears a military 'themed' jacket, the more they view themselves as leader. Dear or otherwise.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    According to the reporting I've seen Rep. Wilson is a family friend of the Johnson’s, so her presence in the limo makes sense. Double so for her outrage. I can't believe people are accusing her of playing politics when Trump has acted like such an ass. Kelly has sacrificed his very last shreds of dignity and respectability defending this egregious bullshit.

    *Edit adding source*

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/19/what-john-kelly-got-wrong-about-rep-frederica-wilson-and-the-johnson-family/
    Perhaps Kelly, who also listened to the call, would be less stunned if he realized that Wilson's primary identity to the Johnson family isn't as a member of Congress. The Johnsons have known Wilson for decades — most of those years before the former educator moved to Washington to join Congress.

    Apparently, Rep Wilson was responsible for naming the building, for which she received thanks by Comey, and had nothing to do with the funding. So yeah, this was Kelly once again sacrificing what dignity he may have had left.

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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Picking this bit out of the quote.
    Gold Star families, I think that left in the convention over the summer.
    That's some serious passive voice there, General. Who did that, sir? Who made that happen? Who was and is responsible for that?
    I realize, as Mild Confusion and others have said, he's under all kinds of limits, but... damn.

    (Also personally not too happy about him saying that "women were sacred" when he was growing up; more like "valuable property, held in trust by fathers for their future husbands." And that his boss is on record - on tape - talking about assaulting those same women. But that's another thread.)

    Just to clarify the bolder part:

    This doesn’t apply to retirees or people no longer in the military. Kelly can say whatever he wants (aside from classified stuff obviously). But all political stuff is fair game since he’s no longer under military law.

    steam_sig.png

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    No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Has the family said anything about Wilson going against their wishes? Why are we assuming they are against her going public?
    No. The family has said next to nothing, which, to me, implies they just want to be left alone.

    The family said that Wilson's account was correct and that in addition they did feel that Trump was disrespectful.

    Source, please? (I just want it on record in this thread.)

    I'm on my phone atm but it's on both wapo and nyt

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    We missed the worst part of this story. It's starting to emerge now. So far I've seen this verified by one source - Barbara Starr at CNN - though I understand other media outlets are verifying it and that the DoD has opened an investigation.

    Okay, so... This is what happened in Niger. Be warned, it's grim stuff.

    These soldiers were sent to a meeting in an area near the border with Mali. This is a well known hotspot for ISIS related activity. They were not backed up by US military air support. Instead, their backup was to be the French military, who were stationed nearby.

    The French had no authorisation to intervene or fire in that area.

    The soldiers didn't travel in armoured vehicles. Instead they were sent in pickup trucks. They had been given faulty Intel that said that they were unlikely to meet any hostile forces.

    They walked straight into a trap. The 12 strong team were set upon by approximately 50 ISIS fighters. Three marines were killed.

    It took the French military 30 minutes to arrive and, when they did, they still had no authorisation to intervene. The best they could do was show themselves to be nearby and summon help from the US military.

    Some time later (I don't have confirmation of how long) a rescue helicopter arrived. It wasn't a US military helicopter. The rescue effort was outsourced to a private contractor. I haven't seen information on who that was yet.

    These contractors landed, loaded in the remaining troops, recovered the injured and dead and took off. Unfortunately, they didn't follow military protocol. Specifically, they didn't do a head count.

    They left Sgt. La David Johnson behind.

    According to the Pentagon, his locator beacon was activated while he was on the battlefield. That indicates that he was alive when he was left. His body was recovered 48 hours later, though the Pentagon is refusing to say where. His widow has said that she could not have an open casket, which means the body was in very poor condition when recovered, but we don't know what happened to Johnson in the two days between his being left behind and his body being recovered.

    TL:DR; The Trump administration sent these soldiers into a trap with bad Intel, didn't give them proper support, outsourced the rescue (which was botched) and then tried to pretend that the whole thing didn't happen until they were pressured by the media to acknowledge it.

    This is extremely fucked up.

    Desktop Hippie on
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Fuck all of that.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    What in the actual fuck

    That reads like the back story to a shitty Punisher knock-off

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    What's going on with the military? How was that able to happen?

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    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    Didn't we already botch a raid like four days into the presidency?

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Didn't we already botch a raid like four days into the presidency?

    Yeah, but that was a plan in place all Trump had to do was give the green light. This seems like middle management bullshit.

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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Last night's Maddow had overview about what is going on in the region. In short, Chad has been a major ally in anti terrorism operations in the area. In response to Trump including Chad in the travel ban (for no logical reason), Chad decided to take their toys and go home. Islamic violence has increased in Niger recently as a result.

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    ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    We missed the worst part of this story. It's starting to emerge now. So far I've seen this verified by one source - Barbara Starr at CNN - though I understand other media outlets are verifying it and that the DoD has opened an investigation.

    Okay, so... This is what happened in Niger. Be warned, it's grim stuff.
    These soldiers were sent to a meeting in an area near the border with Mali. This is a well known hotspot for ISIS related activity. They were not backed up by US military air support. Instead, their backup was to be the French military, who were stationed nearby.

    The French had no authorisation to intervene or fire in that area.

    The soldiers didn't travel in armoured vehicles. Instead they were sent in pickup trucks. They had been given faulty Intel that said that they were unlikely to meet any hostile forces.

    They walked straight into a trap. Three soldiers were killed.

    It took the French military 30 minutes to arrive and, when they did, they still had no authorisation to intervene. The best they could do was show themselves to be nearby and summon help from the US military.

    Some time later (I don't have confirmation of how long) a rescue helicopter arrived. It wasn't a US military helicopter. The rescue effort was outsourced to a private contractor. I haven't seen information on who that was yet.

    These contractors landed, loaded in the remaining troops, recovered the injured and dead and took off. Unfortunately, they didn't follow military protocol. Specifically, they didn't do a head count.

    They left Sgt. La David Johnson behind.

    According to the Pentagon, his locator beacon was activated while he was on the battlefield. That indicates that he was alive when he was left. His body was recovered 48 hours later, though the Pentagon is refusing to say where. His widow has said that she could not have an open casket, which means the body was in very poor condition when recovered, but we don't know what happened to Johnson in the two days between his being left behind and his body being recovered.

    TL:DR; The Trump administration sent these soldiers into a trap with bad Intel, didn't give them proper support, outsourced the rescue (which was botched) and then tried to pretend that the whole thing didn't happen until they were pressured by the media to acknowledge it.

    This is extremely fucked up.

    There's one other thing.

    Originally, Chad was providing support in the area. Had this happened a month ago, it wouldn't have been the French arriving without authorization to help. It would have been well armed soldiers from Chad, capable of engaging the enemy. Except: some dotard pissed off Chad by including them in a certain travel ban, leading to Chad pulling back its military commitments. Chad pulled out, Boko Haram moved in, and what had been a relatively safe area became a good place for an ambush.

    Oh, and as for why Chad was included in the travel ban?
    According to The Guardian, it was because the country didn’t send a sample passport that proved it couldn’t be faked. Chad had to stop issuing passports for six months because the country ran out of the forgery proof passport paper. They asked the Trump administration if they could send a recently printed passport but the Trump administration said no. So, they didn’t send their passport example to the Trump administration and the Trump administration put them on the ban list, ignoring the closest military ally in the region.

    So the TL:DR should read: The Trump administration sent these soldiers into a trap with bad Intel, didn't give them proper support, outsourced the rescue (which was botched) and then tried to pretend that the whole thing didn't happen until they were pressured by the media to acknowledge it, and the entire thing could have been prevented if the Trump administration hadn't insulted a close ally.

    Shadowhope on
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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    I'm not a US citizen, but if I were I'd be calling every lawmaker and reporter that ever so much as whispered Benghazi and raising holy hell because I'm sorry, even if you take the worst interpretation possible of what went down in Benghazi, this is fifty times worse.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I'm not a US citizen, but if I were I'd be calling every lawmaker and reporter that ever so much as whispered Benghazi and raising holy hell because I'm sorry, even if you take the worst interpretation possible of what went down in Benghazi, this is fifty times worse.

    Its ok if you're a republican. Its the mantra america lives by. You don't want to keep reading stories like this because its perfectly fine what Trump did, he's got the R by his name which means he's got strong support for our military.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    This sounds like it could become a massive issue

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    abotkinabotkin Registered User regular
    The timing on this may just be coincidental, but both Obama and W gave speeches yesterday that indirectly criticized Trump. I can't imagine these weren't prompted at least in part due to this mess and Trump trying to one-up every previous president with false claims.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/us/politics/george-bush-trump.html *Warning, auto-playing video*

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    This sounds like it could become a massive issue

    It absolutely could...if it weren't a republican administration with a republican congress.

    Military missteps are only ever brought up as a real issue when the executive faces an opposition congress.

    Javen on
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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    It might become a story if the media wasn't going to be distracted by whatever horrible thing the administration does this weekend.

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