After a conversation in party chat last week I made a trip to the Destiny subsection of FanFiction.net, filtered by the romance genre, and looked at the titles. Here's a selection of ones that stood out.
Fallen for You
Her Favourite Holliday
Patience and Time
Is this Destiny?
The Spire is Forming
Fingertips on the Surface of My Skin
Cayde's Stash
Swept Off My Feet
If You Want It, Take It
Omnigul's Scream
The Heart of the Black Garden
Tossing my Saladin
Love Shaxx
The Loot Cave
I enjoy this endless discussion of Destiny because I am super interested in what destiny is and why destiny is. but I think there's really two big questions being discussed here that keep getting merged
Is Destiny 2 more or less fun to play than Destiny 1?
Is Destiny 2's progression system more or less engaging than Destiny 1?
The second question is suuuuper fraught. Destiny's progression system is a lot of things. It's a customization system by which we express ourselves through who our character is. It's also the product of years of research into the science of motivation manipulation. But that's fine, it can be two things!
Maybe you enjoy the minute to minute gameplay of running strikes over and over again but you need that little push of guns constantly leveling up and the chance to get a god roll imago loop to do 10 strikes in a week. But how many times a week do you want to run vanguard strikes? Where does the line between reinforcement and manipulation sit?
I have no fucking idea.
So let' move on to the easier question, is Destiny 2 more or less fun to play than Destiny 1?
There's lots of good reasons why people think Crucible is less fun. Crucible clearly has less variety than before. The switch to 4 ppl was probably a mistake. I don't yet know what I think about that. One thing I DO know is that for me I think single player destiny is more fun to play.
Planetary free roam is WAYYY better than it was before. Like seriously go back to the dreadnaught right now and be like and you'll realize how much less is going on. The public events are many many times more fun than they were before. Heroic objective combine with way more variety to create a much better experience. Lost Sectors are some nice, beautiful seasoning. Cayde's chest give you some incentive to explore. Literally the only thing Destiny 1 free roam did better were the collectibles.
The nightfall is WAY better. I don't know if anyone remembers but nightfalls were fucking boring before.
The Strikes are all excellent. I feel like people aren't acknowledging how brilliant the inverted spire strike is. The inverted spire strike is all the good things about destiny distilled into a fantastic 15 minute experience. Dodging the giant drill arms is probably the coolest thing that's ever happened in non-raid destiny. The Pyramidion has a great boss fight. The arcology strike has probably the best art design ever in destiny and is really atmospheric aside from having a boring boss. Exodus crash and Arms Dealer are about on the same level as your average Destiny 1 strike I guess.
so when people say that Destiny 2 single player is less fun than Destiny 1 I honestly have no idea what they are talking about, because to me it seems like every activity is way better than it was before.
I agree that the progression is less compelling than last time though, but I don't really know what the right answer is there.
Bolded. I don't know if it is possible to separate the two. At least for me. I still love the shooting, movement etc of the game. I enjoy the way public events work, I enjoy the strikes (although we obviously need more and some variations like the heroic list), I enjoy the Nightfall when it isn't punch in the dick mode.
The problem is in a game that isn't meant to be "beat" in any real sense (ie they want you to keep playing) they don't have a compelling way to keep me engaging in the above mentioned activities. If you take away that part you have a shooter with a campaign and a weird open world New Game+ mode with no progressions attached to it.
This is totally fair. I also think that the progression system was more compelling in Destiny 1. But it's clear that Bungie doesn't want people who play for 100 hours to have an advantage over people who play for 40 hours. I don't know if there's a good way to resolve these two impulses.
ESPECIALLY when you're cordoning off a lot of cosmetic stuff in the eververse.
There is. I mean, one you mention in your second paragraph they've kind of already fucked themselves on, but they don't have to do that.
But there's a lot of space between "you have to play 100 hours a week" and "you can play 100 hours a week". Most of it involving basically giving people things to do with their time that aren't necessary. But part of that is also acknowledging that people who play more will probably end up with more stuff. Maybe not more powerful stuff, maybe just more diverse stuff or more different looking stuff, but more stuff in general. Stuff like a rare ship you can only get from Strikes or more likely to have specific loot that only drops in or has the highest chance to drop in Public Events or a higher score on the non-existent Grimoire or a set of gear you can get from specific vendors for doing specific things that they will have sooner then others.
But at it's most basic you just need to give people goals to work towards if they want to put the time in.
Another way you can do this is to de-homogenise the loot pool, which encourages people to do a more diverse range of activities.
Locking sparrows/ships/cosmetics inside a slot machine appears to have been a poor design decision. By creating one rng source for those items they've removed value from their baseline activities (strikes/crucible).
I get that we get a few free spins by doing anything each week via bright engrams but all that has done is push value towards boring, but efficient, activities (public events) and make the game feel both more grindy and less rewarding simultaneously.
What are the theories about The Nine? I know Xur is related somehow but not exactly how and they seem way more mysterious and conflicting than most stuff.
After a conversation in party chat last week I made a trip to the Destiny subsection of FanFiction.net, filtered by the romance genre, and looked at the titles. Here's a selection of ones that stood out.
Fallen for You
Her Favourite Holliday
Patience and Time
Is this Destiny?
The Taken King and I
Enthralled By You
Shrieker? I Hardly Know Her!
A Knight to Remember
Let's Talk About Vex
Torch Hammer
I enjoy this endless discussion of Destiny because I am super interested in what destiny is and why destiny is. but I think there's really two big questions being discussed here that keep getting merged
Is Destiny 2 more or less fun to play than Destiny 1?
Is Destiny 2's progression system more or less engaging than Destiny 1?
The second question is suuuuper fraught. Destiny's progression system is a lot of things. It's a customization system by which we express ourselves through who our character is. It's also the product of years of research into the science of motivation manipulation. But that's fine, it can be two things!
Maybe you enjoy the minute to minute gameplay of running strikes over and over again but you need that little push of guns constantly leveling up and the chance to get a god roll imago loop to do 10 strikes in a week. But how many times a week do you want to run vanguard strikes? Where does the line between reinforcement and manipulation sit?
I have no fucking idea.
So let' move on to the easier question, is Destiny 2 more or less fun to play than Destiny 1?
There's lots of good reasons why people think Crucible is less fun. Crucible clearly has less variety than before. The switch to 4 ppl was probably a mistake. I don't yet know what I think about that. One thing I DO know is that for me I think single player destiny is more fun to play.
Planetary free roam is WAYYY better than it was before. Like seriously go back to the dreadnaught right now and be like and you'll realize how much less is going on. The public events are many many times more fun than they were before. Heroic objective combine with way more variety to create a much better experience. Lost Sectors are some nice, beautiful seasoning. Cayde's chest give you some incentive to explore. Literally the only thing Destiny 1 free roam did better were the collectibles.
The nightfall is WAY better. I don't know if anyone remembers but nightfalls were fucking boring before.
The Strikes are all excellent. I feel like people aren't acknowledging how brilliant the inverted spire strike is. The inverted spire strike is all the good things about destiny distilled into a fantastic 15 minute experience. Dodging the giant drill arms is probably the coolest thing that's ever happened in non-raid destiny. The Pyramidion has a great boss fight. The arcology strike has probably the best art design ever in destiny and is really atmospheric aside from having a boring boss. Exodus crash and Arms Dealer are about on the same level as your average Destiny 1 strike I guess.
so when people say that Destiny 2 single player is less fun than Destiny 1 I honestly have no idea what they are talking about, because to me it seems like every activity is way better than it was before.
I agree that the progression is less compelling than last time though, but I don't really know what the right answer is there.
Bolded. I don't know if it is possible to separate the two. At least for me. I still love the shooting, movement etc of the game. I enjoy the way public events work, I enjoy the strikes (although we obviously need more and some variations like the heroic list), I enjoy the Nightfall when it isn't punch in the dick mode.
The problem is in a game that isn't meant to be "beat" in any real sense (ie they want you to keep playing) they don't have a compelling way to keep me engaging in the above mentioned activities. If you take away that part you have a shooter with a campaign and a weird open world New Game+ mode with no progressions attached to it.
This is totally fair. I also think that the progression system was more compelling in Destiny 1. But it's clear that Bungie doesn't want people who play for 100 hours to have an advantage over people who play for 40 hours. I don't know if there's a good way to resolve these two impulses.
ESPECIALLY when you're cordoning off a lot of cosmetic stuff in the eververse.
There is. I mean, one you mention in your second paragraph they've kind of already fucked themselves on, but they don't have to do that.
But there's a lot of space between "you have to play 100 hours a week" and "you can play 100 hours a week". Most of it involving basically giving people things to do with their time that aren't necessary. But part of that is also acknowledging that people who play more will probably end up with more stuff. Maybe not more powerful stuff, maybe just more diverse stuff or more different looking stuff, but more stuff in general. Stuff like a rare ship you can only get from Strikes or more likely to have specific loot that only drops in or has the highest chance to drop in Public Events or a higher score on the non-existent Grimoire or a set of gear you can get from specific vendors for doing specific things that they will have sooner then others.
But at it's most basic you just need to give people goals to work towards if they want to put the time in.
Another way you can do this is to de-homogenise the loot pool, which encourages people to do a more diverse range of activities.
Locking sparrows/ships/cosmetics inside a slot machine appears to have been a poor design decision. By creating one rng source for those items they've removed value from their baseline activities (strikes/crucible).
I get that we get a few free spins by doing anything each week via bright engrams but all that has done is push value towards boring, but efficient, activities (public events) and make the game feel both more grindy and less rewarding simultaneously.
You don't even need to eliminate the cash shop either. You just need to create stuff for the other activities or shift content from the store to other things.
What are the theories about The Nine? I know Xur is related somehow but not exactly how and they seem way more mysterious and conflicting than most stuff.
Current running theory is that they are Guardian-less Ghosts that appear to be operating independently. Some of the lore on the Trials gear and elsewhere seems to lean this way
What are the theories about The Nine? I know Xur is related somehow but not exactly how and they seem way more mysterious and conflicting than most stuff.
Current running theory is that they are Guardian-less Ghosts that appear to be operating independently. Some of the lore on the Trials gear and elsewhere seems to lean this way
After a conversation in party chat last week I made a trip to the Destiny subsection of FanFiction.net, filtered by the romance genre, and looked at the titles. Here's a selection of ones that stood out.
Fallen for You
Her Favourite Holliday
Patience and Time
Is this Destiny?
Over on Ao3 (I didn't go through all 40 pages, but there were some good ones):
Rep Grind
Hunters are at least good for something
Candal Collection (which was a series of Cayde-6/Andal Brask stories)
Will Someone Tell Me What's Going on???? (which seems appropriate for destiny)
Fight Forever, Guardian
How I Spent My Red Legion Invasion
Void Meditation (Warframe/Destiny fic, you'd think there was a lot of this)
Tenno hide in the Void when they’re between tasks.
Warlocks meditate, and sometimes their minds wander into places they probably shouldn’t be. What happens when the projection of a Guardian encounters an ancient warrior of gun and blade?
Oh, and also my favorite, Eliksni Guardian: Rat of Garbage, which is what if Roadhog and Junkrat were Fallen and Junkrat became a Guardian :rotate:
What are the theories about The Nine? I know Xur is related somehow but not exactly how and they seem way more mysterious and conflicting than most stuff.
Current running theory is that they are Guardian-less Ghosts that appear to be operating independently. Some of the lore on the Trials gear and elsewhere seems to lean this way
Strikes need to give something like 20-25 Faction tokens. I'd do strikes for that level of reward.
Nightfall should give 50-75 on first completion.
This would be equivalent to getting between 1667 to 2080 rep per strike in the old money. And nearly 2 to 2.5 ranks per nightfall.
That is pretty aggressive.
Apothe0sis on
0
SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
Dammit, I just read the flavor on Lucky Pants, and now I'm extra sad that I have to wear Stompies. They look so dumb, but movement boosts are my only weakness.
> REMOTE VANGUARD DATABASE TEXT-ONLY SEARCH INITIALIZED.
> WELCOME, USER “ACEOFHEARTS”.
> PLEASE ENTER SEARCH QUERY.
?> beat shaxx
> ONLY ONE GUARDIAN HAS DEFEATED LORD SHAXX IN THE CRUCIBLE. RELATED: REY, I. DO YOU WISH TO SEE POST-MATCH RESULTS?
?> cheat crucible
> CRUCIBLE PARTICIPANTS ARE SUBJECT TO A STRICT CODE OF CONDUCT. CHEATERS WILL BE BANNED.
?> what about cheating like just a little
> SORRY, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND "what about cheating like just a little".
?> ok what counts as cheating
> TO ACT DISHONESTLY OR UNFAIRLY IN ORDER TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE.
?> is luck cheating
> “LUCK” AND “CHEATING” ARE NOT EQUIVALENT.
?> are my pants lucky
> PROBABLY NOT.
?> wrooooooong theyre super lucky
Strikes need to give something like 20-25 Faction tokens. I'd do strikes for that level of reward.
Nightfall should give 50-75 on first completion.
This would be equivalent to getting between 1667 to 2080 rep per strike in the old money. And nearly 2 to 2.5 ranks per nightfall.
That is pretty aggressive.
They are giving us 5 tokens per Public Event, of which I can complete 4 in about the same time I can complete a Strike. The problem is not the level of rewards that Bungie has decided we can get, its that they've decided that Strike and Nightfalls should be less rewarding. 20-25 per Strike would keep it as rewarding as Public Events.
Dammit, I just read the flavor on Lucky Pants, and now I'm extra sad that I have to wear Stompies. They look so dumb, but movement boosts are my only weakness.
> REMOTE VANGUARD DATABASE TEXT-ONLY SEARCH INITIALIZED.
> WELCOME, USER “ACEOFHEARTS”.
> PLEASE ENTER SEARCH QUERY.
?> beat shaxx
> ONLY ONE GUARDIAN HAS DEFEATED LORD SHAXX IN THE CRUCIBLE. RELATED: REY, I. DO YOU WISH TO SEE POST-MATCH RESULTS?
?> cheat crucible > CRUCIBLE PARTICIPANTS ARE SUBJECT TO A STRICT CODE OF CONDUCT. CHEATERS WILL BE BANNED.
?> what about cheating like just a little
> SORRY, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND "what about cheating like just a little".
?> ok what counts as cheating
> TO ACT DISHONESTLY OR UNFAIRLY IN ORDER TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE.
?> is luck cheating
> “LUCK” AND “CHEATING” ARE NOT EQUIVALENT.
?> are my pants lucky
> PROBABLY NOT.
?> wrooooooong theyre super lucky
That right there is my favorite line of lore in the entire Destiny saga.
Everything looks beautiful when you're young and pretty
Strikes need to give something like 20-25 Faction tokens. I'd do strikes for that level of reward.
Nightfall should give 50-75 on first completion.
This would be equivalent to getting between 1667 to 2080 rep per strike in the old money. And nearly 2 to 2.5 ranks per nightfall.
That is pretty aggressive.
They are giving us 5 tokens per Public Event, of which I can complete 4 in about the same time I can complete a Strike. The problem is not the level of rewards that Bungie has decided we can get, its that they've decided that Strike and Nightfalls should be less rewarding. 20-25 per Strike would keep it as rewarding as Public Events.
Stop! Obviously the Bungie's solution to this problem is to decrease the rewards from public events! *slaps the monkey paw out of Obi's hand*
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Strikes need to give something like 20-25 Faction tokens. I'd do strikes for that level of reward.
Nightfall should give 50-75 on first completion.
This would be equivalent to getting between 1667 to 2080 rep per strike in the old money. And nearly 2 to 2.5 ranks per nightfall.
That is pretty aggressive.
They are giving us 5 tokens per Public Event, of which I can complete 4 in about the same time I can complete a Strike. The problem is not the level of rewards that Bungie has decided we can get, its that they've decided that Strike and Nightfalls should be less rewarding. 20-25 per Strike would keep it as rewarding as Public Events.
Stop! Obviously the Bungie's solution to this problem is to decrease the rewards from public events! *slaps the monkey paw out of Obi's hand*
You mean like a public event cooldown timer?
0
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Strikes need to give something like 20-25 Faction tokens. I'd do strikes for that level of reward.
Nightfall should give 50-75 on first completion.
This would be equivalent to getting between 1667 to 2080 rep per strike in the old money. And nearly 2 to 2.5 ranks per nightfall.
That is pretty aggressive.
They are giving us 5 tokens per Public Event, of which I can complete 4 in about the same time I can complete a Strike. The problem is not the level of rewards that Bungie has decided we can get, its that they've decided that Strike and Nightfalls should be less rewarding. 20-25 per Strike would keep it as rewarding as Public Events.
My observation wasn’t an argument, rather an observation. I mean, the other side of that observation would be in the old money you were getting faction rep all the time, whereas this is compressed into a week at a time.
That said, there is the question as to player behaviour vs design intent. An additional source of passive rewards seems to be the intent. Player behaviour is "there is a bar and I must fill it". Don't know if there is a way to design around the latter except not to make an event with passive rewards in this sense or if it is event desirable to do so.
[email protected] is up with details on the Curse of Osiris streams.
Stream One – New Stories to Tell
11AM Pacific, Wednesday, November 15
Learn about the places you’ll go, the characters you’ll meet, and the enemies you'll fight.
Stream Two – New Ways to Play
11AM Pacific, Tuesday, November 21
Watch us preview some of the new activities that will challenge you and your Fireteam.
Stream Three – New Gear to Earn
11AM Pacific, Wednesday, November 29
Inspect the new inventories and see it all in action on a brand new Crucible map.
worth making note that the second stream is on a Tuesday, not Wednesday like the others.
I have done a shit ton of Public Events before I burned out on patrols though... That emblem that counts Heroic completions is probably set at several hundreds.
I really liked playing Public Events apparently.
A bit bored with them now though.
I had to do a ton of them to unlock both my subclasses.
Also, where is Xur this week?
Also also, I can see all clan members now, but there's no clan chat?
I have done a shit ton of Public Events before I burned out on patrols though... That emblem that counts Heroic completions is probably set at several hundreds.
I really liked playing Public Events apparently.
A bit bored with them now though.
I had to do a ton of them to unlock both my subclasses.
Also, where is Xur this week?
Xur shan't arrive for another 10 hours and 15 minutes from the time of posting
lol they gave Dead Orbit a grenade launcher to make sure they don't win twice in a row :pop:
I dunno, it's the lightweight archetype, which has a huge blast radius, and unlike the other lightweight archetype grenade launchers one of its perks actually increases its blast radius even further. You're not wrong that people probably won't go for it, but personally I'm quite curious to see how that gun would perform.
Posts
icebreaker
hereafter
basically all the snipers
black spindle
hmm
zen meteor
wait
Her Fury
The Chosen
It was only a threesome
Black Hammer
(for fucks sake Chanus it was RIGHT THERE)
The Spire is Forming
Fingertips on the Surface of My Skin
Cayde's Stash
Swept Off My Feet
If You Want It, Take It
Omnigul's Scream
The Heart of the Black Garden
Tossing my Saladin
Love Shaxx
The Loot Cave
Have you seen him? Now you have
Was there ever really that much of a difference?
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Locking sparrows/ships/cosmetics inside a slot machine appears to have been a poor design decision. By creating one rng source for those items they've removed value from their baseline activities (strikes/crucible).
I get that we get a few free spins by doing anything each week via bright engrams but all that has done is push value towards boring, but efficient, activities (public events) and make the game feel both more grindy and less rewarding simultaneously.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Based off the titles of ElementWrath's recent works. Yes.
SniperGuyGaming on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
Kill a guardian with a loot chest
Finish Pleasure Gardens using melee only
Break a guardian's shield with Fighting Lion
The Taken King and I
Enthralled By You
Shrieker? I Hardly Know Her!
A Knight to Remember
Let's Talk About Vex
Torch Hammer
You don't even need to eliminate the cash shop either. You just need to create stuff for the other activities or shift content from the store to other things.
Both can coexist if you bother to try.
This is the primary source: http://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/the-nine
Specifically Ghost Fragment: Legends 2 and The Long Walk.
Over on Ao3 (I didn't go through all 40 pages, but there were some good ones):
Rep Grind
Hunters are at least good for something
Candal Collection (which was a series of Cayde-6/Andal Brask stories)
Will Someone Tell Me What's Going on???? (which seems appropriate for destiny)
Fight Forever, Guardian
How I Spent My Red Legion Invasion
Void Meditation (Warframe/Destiny fic, you'd think there was a lot of this)
Oh, and also my favorite, Eliksni Guardian: Rat of Garbage, which is what if Roadhog and Junkrat were Fallen and Junkrat became a Guardian :rotate:
@rndmhero – Trying to figure out how to get your wife raiding with you?
Ooooh The Long Walk especially is very interesting. Thanks!
Now to figure out how Xur works into this.
SniperGuyGaming on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
This would be equivalent to getting between 1667 to 2080 rep per strike in the old money. And nearly 2 to 2.5 ranks per nightfall.
That is pretty aggressive.
> WELCOME, USER “ACEOFHEARTS”.
> PLEASE ENTER SEARCH QUERY.
?> beat shaxx
> ONLY ONE GUARDIAN HAS DEFEATED LORD SHAXX IN THE CRUCIBLE. RELATED: REY, I. DO YOU WISH TO SEE POST-MATCH RESULTS?
?> cheat crucible
> CRUCIBLE PARTICIPANTS ARE SUBJECT TO A STRICT CODE OF CONDUCT. CHEATERS WILL BE BANNED.
?> what about cheating like just a little
> SORRY, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND "what about cheating like just a little".
?> ok what counts as cheating
> TO ACT DISHONESTLY OR UNFAIRLY IN ORDER TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE.
?> is luck cheating
> “LUCK” AND “CHEATING” ARE NOT EQUIVALENT.
?> are my pants lucky
> PROBABLY NOT.
?> wrooooooong theyre super lucky
Edit: I are dumb at math. I don't see anything wrong with 2-2.5 ranks per first completion of the Nightfall though.
They are giving us 5 tokens per Public Event, of which I can complete 4 in about the same time I can complete a Strike. The problem is not the level of rewards that Bungie has decided we can get, its that they've decided that Strike and Nightfalls should be less rewarding. 20-25 per Strike would keep it as rewarding as Public Events.
Xbox Live / Steam
The problem is that the rewards still suck.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
That right there is my favorite line of lore in the entire Destiny saga.
Stop! Obviously the Bungie's solution to this problem is to decrease the rewards from public events! *slaps the monkey paw out of Obi's hand*
You mean like a public event cooldown timer?
My observation wasn’t an argument, rather an observation. I mean, the other side of that observation would be in the old money you were getting faction rep all the time, whereas this is compressed into a week at a time.
That said, there is the question as to player behaviour vs design intent. An additional source of passive rewards seems to be the intent. Player behaviour is "there is a bar and I must fill it". Don't know if there is a way to design around the latter except not to make an event with passive rewards in this sense or if it is event desirable to do so.
With as much as @Radiation invites her, she needs to learn this at some point.
Stream One – New Stories to Tell
11AM Pacific, Wednesday, November 15
Learn about the places you’ll go, the characters you’ll meet, and the enemies you'll fight.
Stream Two – New Ways to Play
11AM Pacific, Tuesday, November 21
Watch us preview some of the new activities that will challenge you and your Fireteam.
Stream Three – New Gear to Earn
11AM Pacific, Wednesday, November 29
Inspect the new inventories and see it all in action on a brand new Crucible map.
worth making note that the second stream is on a Tuesday, not Wednesday like the others.
I had to do a ton of them to unlock both my subclasses.
Also, where is Xur this week?
Also also, I can see all clan members now, but there's no clan chat?
Twitch: akThera
Steam: Thera
Xur shan't arrive for another 10 hours and 15 minutes from the time of posting
https://medium.com/@alascii
They gave New Monarchy a garbage sidearm the first time and they still came in second.
My favorite is the unrequited love story, Thousand Yard Stare.