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Posts

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I liked Season 3 of Travelers a lot more than season 2, though not as much as season 1.
    I hope it gets renewed for a 4th season as I'm very curious where it goes.

    Though one thing didn't make sense to me at the very end of the season:
    The whole Protocol Omega thing: how can the Director abandon a timeline?
    Not morally or anything; like how is it physically possible?

    My understanding, based on admittedly fuzzy memories, was the Traveler 001 went back as far as the Director could send him within the limitations of the technology and that some other limitation of the tech prevented it sending anyone back except in numerical order (so 002 has to be later than 001 etc).

    So if it wanted to abandon a timeline and try again...how would it? Send someone back to the near past before 001 went out and have them give it information?

    Or was that whole thing just a lie to orchestrate them sending the dude back further into the past? In which case, if it couldn't actually try again, why did the protocol exist in the first place?

    It's a lot simpler than that, though the events surrounding it were BULLSHIT (Travelers season 3 spoilers, finale mostly):
    Omega is just no more touching the timeline. It doesn't have to do anything, it just stops. Things happen from that point onward as they will with no travelers changing things.

    It kicks this off by letting David die which Marcy had the proper reaction to; fuck you computer.

    And now they are ALL dead except Mac so. Maybe the faction had a point.

    It also seemed written to end things or at least they wrote themselves into a shitty corner to get out of.
    I'm almost certain I remember in the explanation of what Protocol Omega means someone saying that the Director was abandoning this timeline and starting over.

    But maybe I imagined that.

    'Abandoning the timeline' seems like a very odd way to say, 'shutting down the Traveler program' either way.
    The next season is obviously going to be a total reboot, probably with a whole new cast. Kinda excited about that, actually.

    I'm going to guess the whole "Cant send a traveler further back than the previous one" isnt actually a technical limitation, but a limitation in the way time works. When a traveler is sent to a time later than the last traveler it is still on the same timeline, but if a traveler is sent back even further it creates a whole new timeline.

    Apparently Netflix took over production for Season 3, so what happens now is entirely in Netflix's hands.

    Seems like a good negotiation tactic.
    So basically all your characters are dead now, but we might bring them back if we reach an agreement in the salary negotiations.

    Anywho, Xeddicus makes a fair complaint. Depends on your point of view I guess. If we see this as Mac's story, the story just continues even if the timeline changes. But if you're more invested in the rest of the cast and the world, it certainly seems like they just rendered all three seasons meaningless.
    It could be that the Director knew that if it told our plucky time travelers that it was abandoning them they would send Mac back to before 001. The Director couldn't reset the timeline directly because it was programmed to not be able to, but it needed the timeline reset to try again. Killing David in the way it did was the only way to drive them to the point of desperation to do what they did.

    I get the complaint about making the previous story meaningless. Resetting the timeline is the third rail of time travel stories. I can only stomach once if it's done well, and I am optimistic that the writers can pull this off.



    Travelers:
    It can totally reset the timeline if it wants. It did that half a dozen or so times just to save Mac's team.

    So it could have just said "Hey, go back and stop 001 from ever being sent back.". So really this looks really bad for the Director.

    Unless, and this won't be the case, but 001 didn't really DO anything for awhile right? So nothing changes (what are they going to do about Helios without Traveler tech?) except Mac is around sooner!

    Not going to happen, but everything being gone is just sigh.

    Did it?
    The closest I can recall is the episode where they were trying to stop a team from doing...something...at a lake out in the country and kept failing and getting killed, so the Director sent back Travelers into basically every person who was in the vicinity - two of whom were skydiving at the time - within seconds of one another. They all manipulated the timeline by undoing the failure the Director saw after the last Traveler but every one of them arrived after the previous one. And the more it sent the more fucked up the Travelers were on arrival due to the temporal instability or whatever created by too many subsequent temporal arrivals.

    That's why I didn't understand how the Director could abandon a timeline and try again. The one rule they've stuck to all the way through the series is that a Traveler cannot be sent back further than the last Traveler. So if I show up at 12:00:00, the next guy is going to have to come in at 12:00:01 to fix my fuck-up because the Director physically can't send someone to 11:59:00 to shoot me in the face and do my job for me.

    If Protocol Omega is just the Director giving up then it makes even less sense. Sure, the timeline is fucked. But if it can't reboot the program and try again from the start then it seems like it would still try to shepherd the past into the best version of the future possible, rather than leaving the Faction to fuck with history however they want to.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    Travelers:
    That's what I'm talking about. Technically maybe it didn't send those travelers back before X time, but they all repeated the events over and over and Mac's team was reset every time. I can't recall if each attempt the new traveler was messed up more or not, just that the previous ones failed so it had to keep trying. So not matter the exact details it was abandoning timelines to save them.

    Omega was never clearly defined that I recall, just the Director will no longer interfere either because mission success or no more moves to make. That last one seems pretty implausible with time travel, as shown by the lake episode, so yeah. V2 was always on the table it seems and it includes a new timeline.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • TexiKenTexiKen I'm strong! Registered User regular
    I mentioned this in the Christmas thread but wanted to make sure it gets out there, but if you need some car mayhem in your life right now that's not Grand Tour there's a show up on Amazon called Sentosha Battle Wheels which aired in the summer in Japan.

    XtprN8X.jpg

    Basically it's Takeshi's Castle plus the cheap car challenges/country battles from Top Gear and a little bit of asian variety show, in that you have two feudal "emperors" and their celebrity allies fighting one another in car battles that involve japanese vs. western cars, and some of them are actually owned by the celebrities. It's not as scripted as other shows and the drivers sort of ham up and deliberately go after one another (if you need a general idea of what you get in the show watch the first 15 minutes of episode 3) and while it's only 5 episodes, it's paced to take place over an afternoon of shooting, and you sort of even feel bad for the cars to when things like this happen:

    4r7WcJc.gif

    Good, funny car show. Give it a shot if you have time.

    JFSxGzK.png
    ShadowfireDanHibikiThawmus
  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    According to the trailer Carmen Sandiego only steals from other thieves, making her morally okay in TV terms.

    ACsTqqK.jpg
    Thawmus
  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    I used to really enjoy the Carmen Sandiego cartoons and video game as a kid.

    Thawmusskyknyt
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    I'm not in unless Rockapella does the theme song.

    ShadowfireThawmusObiFettVeeveeskyknytSo It GoesMarekLegacy
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    Soooo Carmen Sandiego comes to Netflix on January 18. Doesn't look too bad.

    That's where she wants you to think she is.

    Oh brilliant
    ThawmusHefflingMarek
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    According to the trailer Carmen Sandiego only steals from other thieves, making her morally okay in TV terms.

    Well, what does she then do? If she's just letting them do the hard work for her she's not morally in the right!

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    Astaereth wrote: »
    According to the trailer Carmen Sandiego only steals from other thieves, making her morally okay in TV terms.

    I was with it until we got to that part. CS isn't a that kind of character. She's a time traveling super thief who steals only the most valuable artifacts (and monuments) from all over the world. Why bother calling it Carmen Sandiego if it's not going to be that character. I know I'm not the target audience for this show, but who is? The only people who would recognize that character design and name are old enough to remember how different this new character is.

    That_Guy on
    camo_sig.png
    King RiptorTexiKenKanaskyknytSmrtnikMoridin889Lanlaorn
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Registered User regular
    I'm not sure Carmen Sandiego ever really had much of a character? She's just always kind of been presented as a high-end thief that likes to tease people with clues.

    It makes perfect sense to me that they'd turn her into a more of a protagonist.

    steam_sig.png
    kimeLoisLaneRickRudeSo It GoesLegacy
  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    I'm not in unless Rockapella does the theme song.

    I still get that song stuck in my head once a week to this day

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
    RchanenAtlas in Chains
  • Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I liked Season 3 of Travelers a lot more than season 2, though not as much as season 1.
    I hope it gets renewed for a 4th season as I'm very curious where it goes.

    Though one thing didn't make sense to me at the very end of the season:
    The whole Protocol Omega thing: how can the Director abandon a timeline?
    Not morally or anything; like how is it physically possible?

    My understanding, based on admittedly fuzzy memories, was the Traveler 001 went back as far as the Director could send him within the limitations of the technology and that some other limitation of the tech prevented it sending anyone back except in numerical order (so 002 has to be later than 001 etc).

    So if it wanted to abandon a timeline and try again...how would it? Send someone back to the near past before 001 went out and have them give it information?

    Or was that whole thing just a lie to orchestrate them sending the dude back further into the past? In which case, if it couldn't actually try again, why did the protocol exist in the first place?

    It's a lot simpler than that, though the events surrounding it were BULLSHIT (Travelers season 3 spoilers, finale mostly):
    Omega is just no more touching the timeline. It doesn't have to do anything, it just stops. Things happen from that point onward as they will with no travelers changing things.

    It kicks this off by letting David die which Marcy had the proper reaction to; fuck you computer.

    And now they are ALL dead except Mac so. Maybe the faction had a point.

    It also seemed written to end things or at least they wrote themselves into a shitty corner to get out of.
    I'm almost certain I remember in the explanation of what Protocol Omega means someone saying that the Director was abandoning this timeline and starting over.

    But maybe I imagined that.

    'Abandoning the timeline' seems like a very odd way to say, 'shutting down the Traveler program' either way.
    The next season is obviously going to be a total reboot, probably with a whole new cast. Kinda excited about that, actually.

    I'm going to guess the whole "Cant send a traveler further back than the previous one" isnt actually a technical limitation, but a limitation in the way time works. When a traveler is sent to a time later than the last traveler it is still on the same timeline, but if a traveler is sent back even further it creates a whole new timeline.

    Apparently Netflix took over production for Season 3, so what happens now is entirely in Netflix's hands.

    Seems like a good negotiation tactic.
    So basically all your characters are dead now, but we might bring them back if we reach an agreement in the salary negotiations.

    Anywho, Xeddicus makes a fair complaint. Depends on your point of view I guess. If we see this as Mac's story, the story just continues even if the timeline changes. But if you're more invested in the rest of the cast and the world, it certainly seems like they just rendered all three seasons meaningless.
    It could be that the Director knew that if it told our plucky time travelers that it was abandoning them they would send Mac back to before 001. The Director couldn't reset the timeline directly because it was programmed to not be able to, but it needed the timeline reset to try again. Killing David in the way it did was the only way to drive them to the point of desperation to do what they did.

    I get the complaint about making the previous story meaningless. Resetting the timeline is the third rail of time travel stories. I can only stomach once if it's done well, and I am optimistic that the writers can pull this off.



    Travelers:
    It can totally reset the timeline if it wants. It did that half a dozen or so times just to save Mac's team.

    So it could have just said "Hey, go back and stop 001 from ever being sent back.". So really this looks really bad for the Director.

    Unless, and this won't be the case, but 001 didn't really DO anything for awhile right? So nothing changes (what are they going to do about Helios without Traveler tech?) except Mac is around sooner!

    Not going to happen, but everything being gone is just sigh.

    Did it?
    The closest I can recall is the episode where they were trying to stop a team from doing...something...at a lake out in the country and kept failing and getting killed, so the Director sent back Travelers into basically every person who was in the vicinity - two of whom were skydiving at the time - within seconds of one another. They all manipulated the timeline by undoing the failure the Director saw after the last Traveler but every one of them arrived after the previous one. And the more it sent the more fucked up the Travelers were on arrival due to the temporal instability or whatever created by too many subsequent temporal arrivals.

    That's why I didn't understand how the Director could abandon a timeline and try again. The one rule they've stuck to all the way through the series is that a Traveler cannot be sent back further than the last Traveler. So if I show up at 12:00:00, the next guy is going to have to come in at 12:00:01 to fix my fuck-up because the Director physically can't send someone to 11:59:00 to shoot me in the face and do my job for me.

    If Protocol Omega is just the Director giving up then it makes even less sense. Sure, the timeline is fucked. But if it can't reboot the program and try again from the start then it seems like it would still try to shepherd the past into the best version of the future possible, rather than leaving the Faction to fuck with history however they want to.

    Travelers:
    The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that the limitation was just a protocol established by the Director to keep things in control and to maximize the information it receives from the past. Once the program fails, the Director is free to start over. I wonder how far into the past it could send people. It only seems to require a time and a set of coordinates, so in theory it could send Travelers to the Pharaonic throne of Egypt, or the ancient Roman Senate, with a pretty good chance of success. I guess it does need to be careful to maintain a timeline where the Director itself gets built, though (except in the case of Mission Successful, where it'd be irrelevant).

    MSL59.jpg
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular

    TexiKencaligynefobLanlaorn
  • JeedanJeedan Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    Netflixs You is great and the Dexter comparisons are spot on in a 'show about watching a guy get away with horrible things by the skin of his teeth way' although one interesting departure:
    Unlike Dexter Joe is way more of an opportunist, Dexter would rarely do anything spur of the moment but Joe frequently does shit on the fly and has to work backwards from it which helps keep it suspenseful.

    Jeedan on
  • TexiKenTexiKen I'm strong! Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    Mike is on to something with the Mom Horror/Dad Sci-fi subgenres, and with the lack of consistent numbers it does feel like the 45 milly watched Birdbox is a hella misleading statistic. I haven't seen it myself and really don't care to, but it is kind of sad when Outlaw King is right there and is a legit, non-indy pickup, good movie that would have still been good if you saw it in theaters (Jay's anger at the end about Netflix isn't free was vicarious).

    TexiKen on
    JFSxGzK.png
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    I'm not in unless Rockapella does the theme song.

    I still get that song stuck in my head once a week to this day

    Does anyone remember when @Captain K did that entire song himself and posted it to YTMND?

    Edit: Oh my god it's still there

    That_Guy on
    camo_sig.png
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Also: Oh my God YTMND is still there!

    ShadowfirePailryderDiannaoChong
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited January 9
    I'm not in unless Rockapella does the theme song.

    I still get that song stuck in my head once a week to this day

    And it'll now be permanently wedged in my brain for the night.

    Rockapella has a complicated place for me because it was my ex-wife's favorite musical group of all time so I was dragged to several of their shows when they came through the area. I actually like them and find them to be the best a cappella group out there, but the memories their music brings up is not always the best.

    There are definitely worse tortures of life to endure, but Rockapella is one of mine.

    Veevee on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I liked Season 3 of Travelers a lot more than season 2, though not as much as season 1.
    I hope it gets renewed for a 4th season as I'm very curious where it goes.

    Though one thing didn't make sense to me at the very end of the season:
    The whole Protocol Omega thing: how can the Director abandon a timeline?
    Not morally or anything; like how is it physically possible?

    My understanding, based on admittedly fuzzy memories, was the Traveler 001 went back as far as the Director could send him within the limitations of the technology and that some other limitation of the tech prevented it sending anyone back except in numerical order (so 002 has to be later than 001 etc).

    So if it wanted to abandon a timeline and try again...how would it? Send someone back to the near past before 001 went out and have them give it information?

    Or was that whole thing just a lie to orchestrate them sending the dude back further into the past? In which case, if it couldn't actually try again, why did the protocol exist in the first place?

    It's a lot simpler than that, though the events surrounding it were BULLSHIT (Travelers season 3 spoilers, finale mostly):
    Omega is just no more touching the timeline. It doesn't have to do anything, it just stops. Things happen from that point onward as they will with no travelers changing things.

    It kicks this off by letting David die which Marcy had the proper reaction to; fuck you computer.

    And now they are ALL dead except Mac so. Maybe the faction had a point.

    It also seemed written to end things or at least they wrote themselves into a shitty corner to get out of.
    I'm almost certain I remember in the explanation of what Protocol Omega means someone saying that the Director was abandoning this timeline and starting over.

    But maybe I imagined that.

    'Abandoning the timeline' seems like a very odd way to say, 'shutting down the Traveler program' either way.
    The next season is obviously going to be a total reboot, probably with a whole new cast. Kinda excited about that, actually.

    I'm going to guess the whole "Cant send a traveler further back than the previous one" isnt actually a technical limitation, but a limitation in the way time works. When a traveler is sent to a time later than the last traveler it is still on the same timeline, but if a traveler is sent back even further it creates a whole new timeline.

    Apparently Netflix took over production for Season 3, so what happens now is entirely in Netflix's hands.

    Seems like a good negotiation tactic.
    So basically all your characters are dead now, but we might bring them back if we reach an agreement in the salary negotiations.

    Anywho, Xeddicus makes a fair complaint. Depends on your point of view I guess. If we see this as Mac's story, the story just continues even if the timeline changes. But if you're more invested in the rest of the cast and the world, it certainly seems like they just rendered all three seasons meaningless.
    It could be that the Director knew that if it told our plucky time travelers that it was abandoning them they would send Mac back to before 001. The Director couldn't reset the timeline directly because it was programmed to not be able to, but it needed the timeline reset to try again. Killing David in the way it did was the only way to drive them to the point of desperation to do what they did.

    I get the complaint about making the previous story meaningless. Resetting the timeline is the third rail of time travel stories. I can only stomach once if it's done well, and I am optimistic that the writers can pull this off.



    Travelers:
    It can totally reset the timeline if it wants. It did that half a dozen or so times just to save Mac's team.

    So it could have just said "Hey, go back and stop 001 from ever being sent back.". So really this looks really bad for the Director.

    Unless, and this won't be the case, but 001 didn't really DO anything for awhile right? So nothing changes (what are they going to do about Helios without Traveler tech?) except Mac is around sooner!

    Not going to happen, but everything being gone is just sigh.

    Did it?
    The closest I can recall is the episode where they were trying to stop a team from doing...something...at a lake out in the country and kept failing and getting killed, so the Director sent back Travelers into basically every person who was in the vicinity - two of whom were skydiving at the time - within seconds of one another. They all manipulated the timeline by undoing the failure the Director saw after the last Traveler but every one of them arrived after the previous one. And the more it sent the more fucked up the Travelers were on arrival due to the temporal instability or whatever created by too many subsequent temporal arrivals.

    That's why I didn't understand how the Director could abandon a timeline and try again. The one rule they've stuck to all the way through the series is that a Traveler cannot be sent back further than the last Traveler. So if I show up at 12:00:00, the next guy is going to have to come in at 12:00:01 to fix my fuck-up because the Director physically can't send someone to 11:59:00 to shoot me in the face and do my job for me.

    If Protocol Omega is just the Director giving up then it makes even less sense. Sure, the timeline is fucked. But if it can't reboot the program and try again from the start then it seems like it would still try to shepherd the past into the best version of the future possible, rather than leaving the Faction to fuck with history however they want to.

    I think the implication of that Travelrs ep was
    That the process of transferring people over and over into the same body eventually starts to degrade the host

    Thawmus
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I liked Season 3 of Travelers a lot more than season 2, though not as much as season 1.
    I hope it gets renewed for a 4th season as I'm very curious where it goes.

    Though one thing didn't make sense to me at the very end of the season:
    The whole Protocol Omega thing: how can the Director abandon a timeline?
    Not morally or anything; like how is it physically possible?

    My understanding, based on admittedly fuzzy memories, was the Traveler 001 went back as far as the Director could send him within the limitations of the technology and that some other limitation of the tech prevented it sending anyone back except in numerical order (so 002 has to be later than 001 etc).

    So if it wanted to abandon a timeline and try again...how would it? Send someone back to the near past before 001 went out and have them give it information?

    Or was that whole thing just a lie to orchestrate them sending the dude back further into the past? In which case, if it couldn't actually try again, why did the protocol exist in the first place?

    It's a lot simpler than that, though the events surrounding it were BULLSHIT (Travelers season 3 spoilers, finale mostly):
    Omega is just no more touching the timeline. It doesn't have to do anything, it just stops. Things happen from that point onward as they will with no travelers changing things.

    It kicks this off by letting David die which Marcy had the proper reaction to; fuck you computer.

    And now they are ALL dead except Mac so. Maybe the faction had a point.

    It also seemed written to end things or at least they wrote themselves into a shitty corner to get out of.
    I'm almost certain I remember in the explanation of what Protocol Omega means someone saying that the Director was abandoning this timeline and starting over.

    But maybe I imagined that.

    'Abandoning the timeline' seems like a very odd way to say, 'shutting down the Traveler program' either way.
    The next season is obviously going to be a total reboot, probably with a whole new cast. Kinda excited about that, actually.

    I'm going to guess the whole "Cant send a traveler further back than the previous one" isnt actually a technical limitation, but a limitation in the way time works. When a traveler is sent to a time later than the last traveler it is still on the same timeline, but if a traveler is sent back even further it creates a whole new timeline.

    Apparently Netflix took over production for Season 3, so what happens now is entirely in Netflix's hands.

    Seems like a good negotiation tactic.
    So basically all your characters are dead now, but we might bring them back if we reach an agreement in the salary negotiations.

    Anywho, Xeddicus makes a fair complaint. Depends on your point of view I guess. If we see this as Mac's story, the story just continues even if the timeline changes. But if you're more invested in the rest of the cast and the world, it certainly seems like they just rendered all three seasons meaningless.
    It could be that the Director knew that if it told our plucky time travelers that it was abandoning them they would send Mac back to before 001. The Director couldn't reset the timeline directly because it was programmed to not be able to, but it needed the timeline reset to try again. Killing David in the way it did was the only way to drive them to the point of desperation to do what they did.

    I get the complaint about making the previous story meaningless. Resetting the timeline is the third rail of time travel stories. I can only stomach once if it's done well, and I am optimistic that the writers can pull this off.



    Travelers:
    It can totally reset the timeline if it wants. It did that half a dozen or so times just to save Mac's team.

    So it could have just said "Hey, go back and stop 001 from ever being sent back.". So really this looks really bad for the Director.

    Unless, and this won't be the case, but 001 didn't really DO anything for awhile right? So nothing changes (what are they going to do about Helios without Traveler tech?) except Mac is around sooner!

    Not going to happen, but everything being gone is just sigh.

    Did it?
    The closest I can recall is the episode where they were trying to stop a team from doing...something...at a lake out in the country and kept failing and getting killed, so the Director sent back Travelers into basically every person who was in the vicinity - two of whom were skydiving at the time - within seconds of one another. They all manipulated the timeline by undoing the failure the Director saw after the last Traveler but every one of them arrived after the previous one. And the more it sent the more fucked up the Travelers were on arrival due to the temporal instability or whatever created by too many subsequent temporal arrivals.

    That's why I didn't understand how the Director could abandon a timeline and try again. The one rule they've stuck to all the way through the series is that a Traveler cannot be sent back further than the last Traveler. So if I show up at 12:00:00, the next guy is going to have to come in at 12:00:01 to fix my fuck-up because the Director physically can't send someone to 11:59:00 to shoot me in the face and do my job for me.

    If Protocol Omega is just the Director giving up then it makes even less sense. Sure, the timeline is fucked. But if it can't reboot the program and try again from the start then it seems like it would still try to shepherd the past into the best version of the future possible, rather than leaving the Faction to fuck with history however they want to.

    I think the implication of that Travelrs ep was
    That the process of transferring people over and over into the same body eventually starts to degrade the host

    This was absolutely my take on it.
    The host had her brain overwritten time, time, and time again in the span of seconds, and she basically just died. But each attempt is still only a second (or microsecond) after the last transfer that took place. It still followed the rules.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I liked Season 3 of Travelers a lot more than season 2, though not as much as season 1.
    I hope it gets renewed for a 4th season as I'm very curious where it goes.

    Though one thing didn't make sense to me at the very end of the season:
    The whole Protocol Omega thing: how can the Director abandon a timeline?
    Not morally or anything; like how is it physically possible?

    My understanding, based on admittedly fuzzy memories, was the Traveler 001 went back as far as the Director could send him within the limitations of the technology and that some other limitation of the tech prevented it sending anyone back except in numerical order (so 002 has to be later than 001 etc).

    So if it wanted to abandon a timeline and try again...how would it? Send someone back to the near past before 001 went out and have them give it information?

    Or was that whole thing just a lie to orchestrate them sending the dude back further into the past? In which case, if it couldn't actually try again, why did the protocol exist in the first place?

    It's a lot simpler than that, though the events surrounding it were BULLSHIT (Travelers season 3 spoilers, finale mostly):
    Omega is just no more touching the timeline. It doesn't have to do anything, it just stops. Things happen from that point onward as they will with no travelers changing things.

    It kicks this off by letting David die which Marcy had the proper reaction to; fuck you computer.

    And now they are ALL dead except Mac so. Maybe the faction had a point.

    It also seemed written to end things or at least they wrote themselves into a shitty corner to get out of.
    I'm almost certain I remember in the explanation of what Protocol Omega means someone saying that the Director was abandoning this timeline and starting over.

    But maybe I imagined that.

    'Abandoning the timeline' seems like a very odd way to say, 'shutting down the Traveler program' either way.
    The next season is obviously going to be a total reboot, probably with a whole new cast. Kinda excited about that, actually.

    I'm going to guess the whole "Cant send a traveler further back than the previous one" isnt actually a technical limitation, but a limitation in the way time works. When a traveler is sent to a time later than the last traveler it is still on the same timeline, but if a traveler is sent back even further it creates a whole new timeline.

    Apparently Netflix took over production for Season 3, so what happens now is entirely in Netflix's hands.

    Seems like a good negotiation tactic.
    So basically all your characters are dead now, but we might bring them back if we reach an agreement in the salary negotiations.

    Anywho, Xeddicus makes a fair complaint. Depends on your point of view I guess. If we see this as Mac's story, the story just continues even if the timeline changes. But if you're more invested in the rest of the cast and the world, it certainly seems like they just rendered all three seasons meaningless.
    It could be that the Director knew that if it told our plucky time travelers that it was abandoning them they would send Mac back to before 001. The Director couldn't reset the timeline directly because it was programmed to not be able to, but it needed the timeline reset to try again. Killing David in the way it did was the only way to drive them to the point of desperation to do what they did.

    I get the complaint about making the previous story meaningless. Resetting the timeline is the third rail of time travel stories. I can only stomach once if it's done well, and I am optimistic that the writers can pull this off.



    Travelers:
    It can totally reset the timeline if it wants. It did that half a dozen or so times just to save Mac's team.

    So it could have just said "Hey, go back and stop 001 from ever being sent back.". So really this looks really bad for the Director.

    Unless, and this won't be the case, but 001 didn't really DO anything for awhile right? So nothing changes (what are they going to do about Helios without Traveler tech?) except Mac is around sooner!

    Not going to happen, but everything being gone is just sigh.

    Did it?
    The closest I can recall is the episode where they were trying to stop a team from doing...something...at a lake out in the country and kept failing and getting killed, so the Director sent back Travelers into basically every person who was in the vicinity - two of whom were skydiving at the time - within seconds of one another. They all manipulated the timeline by undoing the failure the Director saw after the last Traveler but every one of them arrived after the previous one. And the more it sent the more fucked up the Travelers were on arrival due to the temporal instability or whatever created by too many subsequent temporal arrivals.

    That's why I didn't understand how the Director could abandon a timeline and try again. The one rule they've stuck to all the way through the series is that a Traveler cannot be sent back further than the last Traveler. So if I show up at 12:00:00, the next guy is going to have to come in at 12:00:01 to fix my fuck-up because the Director physically can't send someone to 11:59:00 to shoot me in the face and do my job for me.

    If Protocol Omega is just the Director giving up then it makes even less sense. Sure, the timeline is fucked. But if it can't reboot the program and try again from the start then it seems like it would still try to shepherd the past into the best version of the future possible, rather than leaving the Faction to fuck with history however they want to.

    I think the implication of that Travelrs ep was
    That the process of transferring people over and over into the same body eventually starts to degrade the host

    This was absolutely my take on it.
    The host had her brain overwritten time, time, and time again in the span of seconds, and she basically just died. But each attempt is still only a second (or microsecond) after the last transfer that took place. It still followed the rules.

    That doesn't make sense, but time travel.
    If they're rebooted along with the timeline (and they have to be or everyone is dead) there's no first time until the first time again. So no damage. But time travel.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I liked Season 3 of Travelers a lot more than season 2, though not as much as season 1.
    I hope it gets renewed for a 4th season as I'm very curious where it goes.

    Though one thing didn't make sense to me at the very end of the season:
    The whole Protocol Omega thing: how can the Director abandon a timeline?
    Not morally or anything; like how is it physically possible?

    My understanding, based on admittedly fuzzy memories, was the Traveler 001 went back as far as the Director could send him within the limitations of the technology and that some other limitation of the tech prevented it sending anyone back except in numerical order (so 002 has to be later than 001 etc).

    So if it wanted to abandon a timeline and try again...how would it? Send someone back to the near past before 001 went out and have them give it information?

    Or was that whole thing just a lie to orchestrate them sending the dude back further into the past? In which case, if it couldn't actually try again, why did the protocol exist in the first place?

    It's a lot simpler than that, though the events surrounding it were BULLSHIT (Travelers season 3 spoilers, finale mostly):
    Omega is just no more touching the timeline. It doesn't have to do anything, it just stops. Things happen from that point onward as they will with no travelers changing things.

    It kicks this off by letting David die which Marcy had the proper reaction to; fuck you computer.

    And now they are ALL dead except Mac so. Maybe the faction had a point.

    It also seemed written to end things or at least they wrote themselves into a shitty corner to get out of.
    I'm almost certain I remember in the explanation of what Protocol Omega means someone saying that the Director was abandoning this timeline and starting over.

    But maybe I imagined that.

    'Abandoning the timeline' seems like a very odd way to say, 'shutting down the Traveler program' either way.
    The next season is obviously going to be a total reboot, probably with a whole new cast. Kinda excited about that, actually.

    I'm going to guess the whole "Cant send a traveler further back than the previous one" isnt actually a technical limitation, but a limitation in the way time works. When a traveler is sent to a time later than the last traveler it is still on the same timeline, but if a traveler is sent back even further it creates a whole new timeline.

    Apparently Netflix took over production for Season 3, so what happens now is entirely in Netflix's hands.

    Seems like a good negotiation tactic.
    So basically all your characters are dead now, but we might bring them back if we reach an agreement in the salary negotiations.

    Anywho, Xeddicus makes a fair complaint. Depends on your point of view I guess. If we see this as Mac's story, the story just continues even if the timeline changes. But if you're more invested in the rest of the cast and the world, it certainly seems like they just rendered all three seasons meaningless.
    It could be that the Director knew that if it told our plucky time travelers that it was abandoning them they would send Mac back to before 001. The Director couldn't reset the timeline directly because it was programmed to not be able to, but it needed the timeline reset to try again. Killing David in the way it did was the only way to drive them to the point of desperation to do what they did.

    I get the complaint about making the previous story meaningless. Resetting the timeline is the third rail of time travel stories. I can only stomach once if it's done well, and I am optimistic that the writers can pull this off.



    Travelers:
    It can totally reset the timeline if it wants. It did that half a dozen or so times just to save Mac's team.

    So it could have just said "Hey, go back and stop 001 from ever being sent back.". So really this looks really bad for the Director.

    Unless, and this won't be the case, but 001 didn't really DO anything for awhile right? So nothing changes (what are they going to do about Helios without Traveler tech?) except Mac is around sooner!

    Not going to happen, but everything being gone is just sigh.

    Did it?
    The closest I can recall is the episode where they were trying to stop a team from doing...something...at a lake out in the country and kept failing and getting killed, so the Director sent back Travelers into basically every person who was in the vicinity - two of whom were skydiving at the time - within seconds of one another. They all manipulated the timeline by undoing the failure the Director saw after the last Traveler but every one of them arrived after the previous one. And the more it sent the more fucked up the Travelers were on arrival due to the temporal instability or whatever created by too many subsequent temporal arrivals.

    That's why I didn't understand how the Director could abandon a timeline and try again. The one rule they've stuck to all the way through the series is that a Traveler cannot be sent back further than the last Traveler. So if I show up at 12:00:00, the next guy is going to have to come in at 12:00:01 to fix my fuck-up because the Director physically can't send someone to 11:59:00 to shoot me in the face and do my job for me.

    If Protocol Omega is just the Director giving up then it makes even less sense. Sure, the timeline is fucked. But if it can't reboot the program and try again from the start then it seems like it would still try to shepherd the past into the best version of the future possible, rather than leaving the Faction to fuck with history however they want to.

    I think the implication of that Travelrs ep was
    That the process of transferring people over and over into the same body eventually starts to degrade the host

    This was absolutely my take on it.
    The host had her brain overwritten time, time, and time again in the span of seconds, and she basically just died. But each attempt is still only a second (or microsecond) after the last transfer that took place. It still followed the rules.

    That doesn't make sense, but time travel.
    If they're rebooted along with the timeline (and they have to be or everyone is dead) there's no first time until the first time again. So no damage. But time travel.
    They're not rebooted, you're thinking of it like The Director is rewinding time. It's not. It's throwing shit against the wall and checking to see if it worked or not.

    The Director sends Traveler A back in time to date X and time Y to save the team. Historical records show that the team still died after it did that.

    The Director then immediately sends Traveler B back in time to date X and time Y+1 second to save the team. Historical records show that the team still died after it did that.

    And then it kept doing that until it realized that the Host was dying from the transfer, although it still killed some Travelers in the process, because again, it only sees historical records (social media, especially), and that doesn't tell it that the Host is dying.

    The Director then, and only then, decides to transfer Traveler E or F or G to Host 2 (the other skydiver). It then decides to also use an Ace in the hole, and send another Traveler to Host 3 (guy in truck) to help them out. It's important to understand that it couldn't do this until it was at this point, because as soon as it did, it couldn't re-transfer to Host 1 or 2 anymore, because this transfer is past the others. All transfers at this point have to come after this transfer to Host 3.

  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Solo is up on Netflix Canada.

    The sound seems to be much better than marvel/star wars on Netflix usually is. Can hear the quiet moments easily but aren't blown apart by the loud parts.

    Will become one of my favorite Netflix movies for that alone.

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
    Smrtnik
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited January 10
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I liked Season 3 of Travelers a lot more than season 2, though not as much as season 1.
    I hope it gets renewed for a 4th season as I'm very curious where it goes.

    Though one thing didn't make sense to me at the very end of the season:
    The whole Protocol Omega thing: how can the Director abandon a timeline?
    Not morally or anything; like how is it physically possible?

    My understanding, based on admittedly fuzzy memories, was the Traveler 001 went back as far as the Director could send him within the limitations of the technology and that some other limitation of the tech prevented it sending anyone back except in numerical order (so 002 has to be later than 001 etc).

    So if it wanted to abandon a timeline and try again...how would it? Send someone back to the near past before 001 went out and have them give it information?

    Or was that whole thing just a lie to orchestrate them sending the dude back further into the past? In which case, if it couldn't actually try again, why did the protocol exist in the first place?

    It's a lot simpler than that, though the events surrounding it were BULLSHIT (Travelers season 3 spoilers, finale mostly):
    Omega is just no more touching the timeline. It doesn't have to do anything, it just stops. Things happen from that point onward as they will with no travelers changing things.

    It kicks this off by letting David die which Marcy had the proper reaction to; fuck you computer.

    And now they are ALL dead except Mac so. Maybe the faction had a point.

    It also seemed written to end things or at least they wrote themselves into a shitty corner to get out of.
    I'm almost certain I remember in the explanation of what Protocol Omega means someone saying that the Director was abandoning this timeline and starting over.

    But maybe I imagined that.

    'Abandoning the timeline' seems like a very odd way to say, 'shutting down the Traveler program' either way.
    The next season is obviously going to be a total reboot, probably with a whole new cast. Kinda excited about that, actually.

    I'm going to guess the whole "Cant send a traveler further back than the previous one" isnt actually a technical limitation, but a limitation in the way time works. When a traveler is sent to a time later than the last traveler it is still on the same timeline, but if a traveler is sent back even further it creates a whole new timeline.

    Apparently Netflix took over production for Season 3, so what happens now is entirely in Netflix's hands.

    Seems like a good negotiation tactic.
    So basically all your characters are dead now, but we might bring them back if we reach an agreement in the salary negotiations.

    Anywho, Xeddicus makes a fair complaint. Depends on your point of view I guess. If we see this as Mac's story, the story just continues even if the timeline changes. But if you're more invested in the rest of the cast and the world, it certainly seems like they just rendered all three seasons meaningless.
    It could be that the Director knew that if it told our plucky time travelers that it was abandoning them they would send Mac back to before 001. The Director couldn't reset the timeline directly because it was programmed to not be able to, but it needed the timeline reset to try again. Killing David in the way it did was the only way to drive them to the point of desperation to do what they did.

    I get the complaint about making the previous story meaningless. Resetting the timeline is the third rail of time travel stories. I can only stomach once if it's done well, and I am optimistic that the writers can pull this off.



    Travelers:
    It can totally reset the timeline if it wants. It did that half a dozen or so times just to save Mac's team.

    So it could have just said "Hey, go back and stop 001 from ever being sent back.". So really this looks really bad for the Director.

    Unless, and this won't be the case, but 001 didn't really DO anything for awhile right? So nothing changes (what are they going to do about Helios without Traveler tech?) except Mac is around sooner!

    Not going to happen, but everything being gone is just sigh.

    Did it?
    The closest I can recall is the episode where they were trying to stop a team from doing...something...at a lake out in the country and kept failing and getting killed, so the Director sent back Travelers into basically every person who was in the vicinity - two of whom were skydiving at the time - within seconds of one another. They all manipulated the timeline by undoing the failure the Director saw after the last Traveler but every one of them arrived after the previous one. And the more it sent the more fucked up the Travelers were on arrival due to the temporal instability or whatever created by too many subsequent temporal arrivals.

    That's why I didn't understand how the Director could abandon a timeline and try again. The one rule they've stuck to all the way through the series is that a Traveler cannot be sent back further than the last Traveler. So if I show up at 12:00:00, the next guy is going to have to come in at 12:00:01 to fix my fuck-up because the Director physically can't send someone to 11:59:00 to shoot me in the face and do my job for me.

    If Protocol Omega is just the Director giving up then it makes even less sense. Sure, the timeline is fucked. But if it can't reboot the program and try again from the start then it seems like it would still try to shepherd the past into the best version of the future possible, rather than leaving the Faction to fuck with history however they want to.

    I think the implication of that Travelrs ep was
    That the process of transferring people over and over into the same body eventually starts to degrade the host

    This was absolutely my take on it.
    The host had her brain overwritten time, time, and time again in the span of seconds, and she basically just died. But each attempt is still only a second (or microsecond) after the last transfer that took place. It still followed the rules.

    That doesn't make sense, but time travel.
    If they're rebooted along with the timeline (and they have to be or everyone is dead) there's no first time until the first time again. So no damage. But time travel.
    They're not rebooted, you're thinking of it like The Director is rewinding time. It's not. It's throwing shit against the wall and checking to see if it worked or not.

    The Director sends Traveler A back in time to date X and time Y to save the team. Historical records show that the team still died after it did that.

    The Director then immediately sends Traveler B back in time to date X and time Y+1 second to save the team. Historical records show that the team still died after it did that.

    And then it kept doing that until it realized that the Host was dying from the transfer, although it still killed some Travelers in the process, because again, it only sees historical records (social media, especially), and that doesn't tell it that the Host is dying.

    The Director then, and only then, decides to transfer Traveler E or F or G to Host 2 (the other skydiver). It then decides to also use an Ace in the hole, and send another Traveler to Host 3 (guy in truck) to help them out. It's important to understand that it couldn't do this until it was at this point, because as soon as it did, it couldn't re-transfer to Host 1 or 2 anymore, because this transfer is past the others. All transfers at this point have to come after this transfer to Host 3.
    The Director is a monster AI that I would not want to make angry. In that timeline, the Director sent back countless people to only be overwritten and killed the moment after they arrived because they had already failed their mission before it started.
    This does make me think of a question though: Who would win in a fight, The Director or Skynet?

    Veevee on
    CptHamiltonThawmus
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Solo is up on Netflix Canada.

    The sound seems to be much better than marvel/star wars on Netflix usually is. Can hear the quiet moments easily but aren't blown apart by the loud parts.

    Will become one of my favorite Netflix movies for that alone.

    It's on US Netflix too apparently, got a notification earlier.

    PA HotS Group
    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited January 10
    Looks like Monty Python's Holy Grail is now on Netflix as well.

    Also, another random question about the Travelersverse: In the future do they overwrite someone's consciousness when they've committed a severe crime instead of incarceration or the death penalty? I think they probably do, which also helps keep the cult of personality that the Director created going. That show has many layers of fucked-upedness when you really start thinking about it.

    Edit: Godzilla Anime part 3 is also out now. Watching it now and wow, this very quickly took a Fundamental turn I did not expect.

    Veevee on
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    Veevee wrote: »
    Edit: Godzilla Anime part 3 is also out now. Watching it now and wow, and this is very quickly took a Fundamental turn I did not expect.

    I watched it tonight, too. I never expected to be so bummed-out by a Godzilla movie.

    Ending spoilers:
    Nearly all of humanity is killed when Ghidorah (who in this is an eldritch abomination) destroys the spaceship holding most of mankind. Some of the survivors hope to use a mech made of advanced nanobots to rebuild civilization. Main character decides technology and civilization are inherently self-destructive. Pilots mech to commit suicide by Godzilla. Godzilla blasts the mech and its wreckage slams against his body and explodes. Fast forward to years later, where the main character is remembered in a tribal ceremony as a god that takes away cursed things to be destroyed. The end.

    Hexmage-PA on
    Friend Code: 1590-5696-7916
    Friend Safari Type: Rock
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    Veevee wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I liked Season 3 of Travelers a lot more than season 2, though not as much as season 1.
    I hope it gets renewed for a 4th season as I'm very curious where it goes.

    Though one thing didn't make sense to me at the very end of the season:
    The whole Protocol Omega thing: how can the Director abandon a timeline?
    Not morally or anything; like how is it physically possible?

    My understanding, based on admittedly fuzzy memories, was the Traveler 001 went back as far as the Director could send him within the limitations of the technology and that some other limitation of the tech prevented it sending anyone back except in numerical order (so 002 has to be later than 001 etc).

    So if it wanted to abandon a timeline and try again...how would it? Send someone back to the near past before 001 went out and have them give it information?

    Or was that whole thing just a lie to orchestrate them sending the dude back further into the past? In which case, if it couldn't actually try again, why did the protocol exist in the first place?

    It's a lot simpler than that, though the events surrounding it were BULLSHIT (Travelers season 3 spoilers, finale mostly):
    Omega is just no more touching the timeline. It doesn't have to do anything, it just stops. Things happen from that point onward as they will with no travelers changing things.

    It kicks this off by letting David die which Marcy had the proper reaction to; fuck you computer.

    And now they are ALL dead except Mac so. Maybe the faction had a point.

    It also seemed written to end things or at least they wrote themselves into a shitty corner to get out of.
    I'm almost certain I remember in the explanation of what Protocol Omega means someone saying that the Director was abandoning this timeline and starting over.

    But maybe I imagined that.

    'Abandoning the timeline' seems like a very odd way to say, 'shutting down the Traveler program' either way.
    The next season is obviously going to be a total reboot, probably with a whole new cast. Kinda excited about that, actually.

    I'm going to guess the whole "Cant send a traveler further back than the previous one" isnt actually a technical limitation, but a limitation in the way time works. When a traveler is sent to a time later than the last traveler it is still on the same timeline, but if a traveler is sent back even further it creates a whole new timeline.

    Apparently Netflix took over production for Season 3, so what happens now is entirely in Netflix's hands.

    Seems like a good negotiation tactic.
    So basically all your characters are dead now, but we might bring them back if we reach an agreement in the salary negotiations.

    Anywho, Xeddicus makes a fair complaint. Depends on your point of view I guess. If we see this as Mac's story, the story just continues even if the timeline changes. But if you're more invested in the rest of the cast and the world, it certainly seems like they just rendered all three seasons meaningless.
    It could be that the Director knew that if it told our plucky time travelers that it was abandoning them they would send Mac back to before 001. The Director couldn't reset the timeline directly because it was programmed to not be able to, but it needed the timeline reset to try again. Killing David in the way it did was the only way to drive them to the point of desperation to do what they did.

    I get the complaint about making the previous story meaningless. Resetting the timeline is the third rail of time travel stories. I can only stomach once if it's done well, and I am optimistic that the writers can pull this off.



    Travelers:
    It can totally reset the timeline if it wants. It did that half a dozen or so times just to save Mac's team.

    So it could have just said "Hey, go back and stop 001 from ever being sent back.". So really this looks really bad for the Director.

    Unless, and this won't be the case, but 001 didn't really DO anything for awhile right? So nothing changes (what are they going to do about Helios without Traveler tech?) except Mac is around sooner!

    Not going to happen, but everything being gone is just sigh.

    Did it?
    The closest I can recall is the episode where they were trying to stop a team from doing...something...at a lake out in the country and kept failing and getting killed, so the Director sent back Travelers into basically every person who was in the vicinity - two of whom were skydiving at the time - within seconds of one another. They all manipulated the timeline by undoing the failure the Director saw after the last Traveler but every one of them arrived after the previous one. And the more it sent the more fucked up the Travelers were on arrival due to the temporal instability or whatever created by too many subsequent temporal arrivals.

    That's why I didn't understand how the Director could abandon a timeline and try again. The one rule they've stuck to all the way through the series is that a Traveler cannot be sent back further than the last Traveler. So if I show up at 12:00:00, the next guy is going to have to come in at 12:00:01 to fix my fuck-up because the Director physically can't send someone to 11:59:00 to shoot me in the face and do my job for me.

    If Protocol Omega is just the Director giving up then it makes even less sense. Sure, the timeline is fucked. But if it can't reboot the program and try again from the start then it seems like it would still try to shepherd the past into the best version of the future possible, rather than leaving the Faction to fuck with history however they want to.

    I think the implication of that Travelrs ep was
    That the process of transferring people over and over into the same body eventually starts to degrade the host

    This was absolutely my take on it.
    The host had her brain overwritten time, time, and time again in the span of seconds, and she basically just died. But each attempt is still only a second (or microsecond) after the last transfer that took place. It still followed the rules.

    That doesn't make sense, but time travel.
    If they're rebooted along with the timeline (and they have to be or everyone is dead) there's no first time until the first time again. So no damage. But time travel.
    They're not rebooted, you're thinking of it like The Director is rewinding time. It's not. It's throwing shit against the wall and checking to see if it worked or not.

    The Director sends Traveler A back in time to date X and time Y to save the team. Historical records show that the team still died after it did that.

    The Director then immediately sends Traveler B back in time to date X and time Y+1 second to save the team. Historical records show that the team still died after it did that.

    And then it kept doing that until it realized that the Host was dying from the transfer, although it still killed some Travelers in the process, because again, it only sees historical records (social media, especially), and that doesn't tell it that the Host is dying.

    The Director then, and only then, decides to transfer Traveler E or F or G to Host 2 (the other skydiver). It then decides to also use an Ace in the hole, and send another Traveler to Host 3 (guy in truck) to help them out. It's important to understand that it couldn't do this until it was at this point, because as soon as it did, it couldn't re-transfer to Host 1 or 2 anymore, because this transfer is past the others. All transfers at this point have to come after this transfer to Host 3.
    The Director is a monster AI that I would not want to make angry. In that timeline, the Director sent back countless people to only be overwritten and killed the moment after they arrived because they had already failed their mission before it started.
    This does make me think of a question though: Who would win in a fight, The Director or Skynet?
    The Director, I feel, has a much better grasp of time travel than Skynet, though this is perhaps not the fault of the AI in question and more how time travel works in those universes. Even with killer robots, I feel like Skynet would be one resourceful Historian away from ceasing to exist.

    Thawmus on
    Xeddicus
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    I just finished Bird Box and did not care for it.

    Completely extraneous first hour that’s been done a hundred other times, and a fizzling end that resolves little while whimpering out.

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    I feel like I need to see Bird Box just to make sense of the meme that's suddenly all over the place.

  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    I just finished Bird Box and did not care for it.

    Completely extraneous first hour that’s been done a hundred other times, and a fizzling end that resolves little while whimpering out.

    It may have been done a hundred times before bit this is one of the few times is been done right.

    It doesn't deserve all the attention it's gotten but it's a good movie.

    caligynefob
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I liked Season 3 of Travelers a lot more than season 2, though not as much as season 1.
    I hope it gets renewed for a 4th season as I'm very curious where it goes.

    Though one thing didn't make sense to me at the very end of the season:
    The whole Protocol Omega thing: how can the Director abandon a timeline?
    Not morally or anything; like how is it physically possible?

    My understanding, based on admittedly fuzzy memories, was the Traveler 001 went back as far as the Director could send him within the limitations of the technology and that some other limitation of the tech prevented it sending anyone back except in numerical order (so 002 has to be later than 001 etc).

    So if it wanted to abandon a timeline and try again...how would it? Send someone back to the near past before 001 went out and have them give it information?

    Or was that whole thing just a lie to orchestrate them sending the dude back further into the past? In which case, if it couldn't actually try again, why did the protocol exist in the first place?

    It's a lot simpler than that, though the events surrounding it were BULLSHIT (Travelers season 3 spoilers, finale mostly):
    Omega is just no more touching the timeline. It doesn't have to do anything, it just stops. Things happen from that point onward as they will with no travelers changing things.

    It kicks this off by letting David die which Marcy had the proper reaction to; fuck you computer.

    And now they are ALL dead except Mac so. Maybe the faction had a point.

    It also seemed written to end things or at least they wrote themselves into a shitty corner to get out of.
    I'm almost certain I remember in the explanation of what Protocol Omega means someone saying that the Director was abandoning this timeline and starting over.

    But maybe I imagined that.

    'Abandoning the timeline' seems like a very odd way to say, 'shutting down the Traveler program' either way.
    The next season is obviously going to be a total reboot, probably with a whole new cast. Kinda excited about that, actually.

    I'm going to guess the whole "Cant send a traveler further back than the previous one" isnt actually a technical limitation, but a limitation in the way time works. When a traveler is sent to a time later than the last traveler it is still on the same timeline, but if a traveler is sent back even further it creates a whole new timeline.

    Apparently Netflix took over production for Season 3, so what happens now is entirely in Netflix's hands.

    Seems like a good negotiation tactic.
    So basically all your characters are dead now, but we might bring them back if we reach an agreement in the salary negotiations.

    Anywho, Xeddicus makes a fair complaint. Depends on your point of view I guess. If we see this as Mac's story, the story just continues even if the timeline changes. But if you're more invested in the rest of the cast and the world, it certainly seems like they just rendered all three seasons meaningless.
    It could be that the Director knew that if it told our plucky time travelers that it was abandoning them they would send Mac back to before 001. The Director couldn't reset the timeline directly because it was programmed to not be able to, but it needed the timeline reset to try again. Killing David in the way it did was the only way to drive them to the point of desperation to do what they did.

    I get the complaint about making the previous story meaningless. Resetting the timeline is the third rail of time travel stories. I can only stomach once if it's done well, and I am optimistic that the writers can pull this off.



    Travelers:
    It can totally reset the timeline if it wants. It did that half a dozen or so times just to save Mac's team.

    So it could have just said "Hey, go back and stop 001 from ever being sent back.". So really this looks really bad for the Director.

    Unless, and this won't be the case, but 001 didn't really DO anything for awhile right? So nothing changes (what are they going to do about Helios without Traveler tech?) except Mac is around sooner!

    Not going to happen, but everything being gone is just sigh.

    Did it?
    The closest I can recall is the episode where they were trying to stop a team from doing...something...at a lake out in the country and kept failing and getting killed, so the Director sent back Travelers into basically every person who was in the vicinity - two of whom were skydiving at the time - within seconds of one another. They all manipulated the timeline by undoing the failure the Director saw after the last Traveler but every one of them arrived after the previous one. And the more it sent the more fucked up the Travelers were on arrival due to the temporal instability or whatever created by too many subsequent temporal arrivals.

    That's why I didn't understand how the Director could abandon a timeline and try again. The one rule they've stuck to all the way through the series is that a Traveler cannot be sent back further than the last Traveler. So if I show up at 12:00:00, the next guy is going to have to come in at 12:00:01 to fix my fuck-up because the Director physically can't send someone to 11:59:00 to shoot me in the face and do my job for me.

    If Protocol Omega is just the Director giving up then it makes even less sense. Sure, the timeline is fucked. But if it can't reboot the program and try again from the start then it seems like it would still try to shepherd the past into the best version of the future possible, rather than leaving the Faction to fuck with history however they want to.

    I think the implication of that Travelrs ep was
    That the process of transferring people over and over into the same body eventually starts to degrade the host

    This was absolutely my take on it.
    The host had her brain overwritten time, time, and time again in the span of seconds, and she basically just died. But each attempt is still only a second (or microsecond) after the last transfer that took place. It still followed the rules.

    That doesn't make sense, but time travel.
    If they're rebooted along with the timeline (and they have to be or everyone is dead) there's no first time until the first time again. So no damage. But time travel.
    They're not rebooted, you're thinking of it like The Director is rewinding time. It's not. It's throwing shit against the wall and checking to see if it worked or not.

    The Director sends Traveler A back in time to date X and time Y to save the team. Historical records show that the team still died after it did that.

    The Director then immediately sends Traveler B back in time to date X and time Y+1 second to save the team. Historical records show that the team still died after it did that.

    And then it kept doing that until it realized that the Host was dying from the transfer, although it still killed some Travelers in the process, because again, it only sees historical records (social media, especially), and that doesn't tell it that the Host is dying.

    The Director then, and only then, decides to transfer Traveler E or F or G to Host 2 (the other skydiver). It then decides to also use an Ace in the hole, and send another Traveler to Host 3 (guy in truck) to help them out. It's important to understand that it couldn't do this until it was at this point, because as soon as it did, it couldn't re-transfer to Host 1 or 2 anymore, because this transfer is past the others. All transfers at this point have to come after this transfer to Host 3.
    The Director is a monster AI that I would not want to make angry. In that timeline, the Director sent back countless people to only be overwritten and killed the moment after they arrived because they had already failed their mission before it started.

    This does make me think of a question though: Who would win in a fight, The Director or Skynet?

    The Director, I feel, has a much better grasp of time travel than Skynet, though this is perhaps not the fault of the AI in question and more how time travel works in those universes. Even with killer robots, I feel like Skynet would be one resourceful Historian away from ceasing to exist.

    Y'all are running pretty fast and loose with Traveler's spoilers for a guy that is only on episode 3 FYI.

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    Ketar
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I liked Season 3 of Travelers a lot more than season 2, though not as much as season 1.
    I hope it gets renewed for a 4th season as I'm very curious where it goes.

    Though one thing didn't make sense to me at the very end of the season:
    The whole Protocol Omega thing: how can the Director abandon a timeline?
    Not morally or anything; like how is it physically possible?

    My understanding, based on admittedly fuzzy memories, was the Traveler 001 went back as far as the Director could send him within the limitations of the technology and that some other limitation of the tech prevented it sending anyone back except in numerical order (so 002 has to be later than 001 etc).

    So if it wanted to abandon a timeline and try again...how would it? Send someone back to the near past before 001 went out and have them give it information?

    Or was that whole thing just a lie to orchestrate them sending the dude back further into the past? In which case, if it couldn't actually try again, why did the protocol exist in the first place?

    It's a lot simpler than that, though the events surrounding it were BULLSHIT (Travelers season 3 spoilers, finale mostly):
    Omega is just no more touching the timeline. It doesn't have to do anything, it just stops. Things happen from that point onward as they will with no travelers changing things.

    It kicks this off by letting David die which Marcy had the proper reaction to; fuck you computer.

    And now they are ALL dead except Mac so. Maybe the faction had a point.

    It also seemed written to end things or at least they wrote themselves into a shitty corner to get out of.
    I'm almost certain I remember in the explanation of what Protocol Omega means someone saying that the Director was abandoning this timeline and starting over.

    But maybe I imagined that.

    'Abandoning the timeline' seems like a very odd way to say, 'shutting down the Traveler program' either way.
    The next season is obviously going to be a total reboot, probably with a whole new cast. Kinda excited about that, actually.

    I'm going to guess the whole "Cant send a traveler further back than the previous one" isnt actually a technical limitation, but a limitation in the way time works. When a traveler is sent to a time later than the last traveler it is still on the same timeline, but if a traveler is sent back even further it creates a whole new timeline.

    Apparently Netflix took over production for Season 3, so what happens now is entirely in Netflix's hands.

    Seems like a good negotiation tactic.
    So basically all your characters are dead now, but we might bring them back if we reach an agreement in the salary negotiations.

    Anywho, Xeddicus makes a fair complaint. Depends on your point of view I guess. If we see this as Mac's story, the story just continues even if the timeline changes. But if you're more invested in the rest of the cast and the world, it certainly seems like they just rendered all three seasons meaningless.
    It could be that the Director knew that if it told our plucky time travelers that it was abandoning them they would send Mac back to before 001. The Director couldn't reset the timeline directly because it was programmed to not be able to, but it needed the timeline reset to try again. Killing David in the way it did was the only way to drive them to the point of desperation to do what they did.

    I get the complaint about making the previous story meaningless. Resetting the timeline is the third rail of time travel stories. I can only stomach once if it's done well, and I am optimistic that the writers can pull this off.



    Travelers:
    It can totally reset the timeline if it wants. It did that half a dozen or so times just to save Mac's team.

    So it could have just said "Hey, go back and stop 001 from ever being sent back.". So really this looks really bad for the Director.

    Unless, and this won't be the case, but 001 didn't really DO anything for awhile right? So nothing changes (what are they going to do about Helios without Traveler tech?) except Mac is around sooner!

    Not going to happen, but everything being gone is just sigh.

    Did it?
    The closest I can recall is the episode where they were trying to stop a team from doing...something...at a lake out in the country and kept failing and getting killed, so the Director sent back Travelers into basically every person who was in the vicinity - two of whom were skydiving at the time - within seconds of one another. They all manipulated the timeline by undoing the failure the Director saw after the last Traveler but every one of them arrived after the previous one. And the more it sent the more fucked up the Travelers were on arrival due to the temporal instability or whatever created by too many subsequent temporal arrivals.

    That's why I didn't understand how the Director could abandon a timeline and try again. The one rule they've stuck to all the way through the series is that a Traveler cannot be sent back further than the last Traveler. So if I show up at 12:00:00, the next guy is going to have to come in at 12:00:01 to fix my fuck-up because the Director physically can't send someone to 11:59:00 to shoot me in the face and do my job for me.

    If Protocol Omega is just the Director giving up then it makes even less sense. Sure, the timeline is fucked. But if it can't reboot the program and try again from the start then it seems like it would still try to shepherd the past into the best version of the future possible, rather than leaving the Faction to fuck with history however they want to.

    I think the implication of that Travelrs ep was
    That the process of transferring people over and over into the same body eventually starts to degrade the host

    This was absolutely my take on it.
    The host had her brain overwritten time, time, and time again in the span of seconds, and she basically just died. But each attempt is still only a second (or microsecond) after the last transfer that took place. It still followed the rules.

    That doesn't make sense, but time travel.
    If they're rebooted along with the timeline (and they have to be or everyone is dead) there's no first time until the first time again. So no damage. But time travel.
    They're not rebooted, you're thinking of it like The Director is rewinding time. It's not. It's throwing shit against the wall and checking to see if it worked or not.

    The Director sends Traveler A back in time to date X and time Y to save the team. Historical records show that the team still died after it did that.

    The Director then immediately sends Traveler B back in time to date X and time Y+1 second to save the team. Historical records show that the team still died after it did that.

    And then it kept doing that until it realized that the Host was dying from the transfer, although it still killed some Travelers in the process, because again, it only sees historical records (social media, especially), and that doesn't tell it that the Host is dying.

    The Director then, and only then, decides to transfer Traveler E or F or G to Host 2 (the other skydiver). It then decides to also use an Ace in the hole, and send another Traveler to Host 3 (guy in truck) to help them out. It's important to understand that it couldn't do this until it was at this point, because as soon as it did, it couldn't re-transfer to Host 1 or 2 anymore, because this transfer is past the others. All transfers at this point have to come after this transfer to Host 3.
    The Director is a monster AI that I would not want to make angry. In that timeline, the Director sent back countless people to only be overwritten and killed the moment after they arrived because they had already failed their mission before it started.

    This does make me think of a question though: Who would win in a fight, The Director or Skynet?

    The Director, I feel, has a much better grasp of time travel than Skynet, though this is perhaps not the fault of the AI in question and more how time travel works in those universes. Even with killer robots, I feel like Skynet would be one resourceful Historian away from ceasing to exist.

    Y'all are running pretty fast and loose with Traveler's spoilers for a guy that is only on episode 3 FYI.

    EDIT: Nvm, I got ya.

    Thawmus on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Even what the director is isn't part of the show until like the middle of the first season

    SatanIsMyMotor
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Even what the director is isn't part of the show until like the middle of the first season

    Ah, I've got ya. I thought it was explained right away. I'll go back and box it up

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Edit: Godzilla Anime part 3 is also out now. Watching it now and wow, and this is very quickly took a Fundamental turn I did not expect.

    I watched it tonight, too. I never expected to be so bummed-out by a Godzilla movie.

    Ending spoilers:
    Nearly all of humanity is killed when Ghidorah (who in this is an eldritch abomination) destroys the spaceship holding most of mankind. Some of the survivors hope to use a mech made of advanced nanobots to rebuild civilization. Main character decides technology and civilization are inherently self-destructive. Pilots mech to commit suicide by Godzilla. Godzilla blasts the mech and its wreckage slams against his body and explodes. Fast forward to years later, where the main character is remembered in a tribal ceremony as a god that takes away cursed things to be destroyed. The end.

    Been watching Godzilla movies for literally as long as I can remember, and there was nothing I saw in that crappy series that would make me recommend the series to anyone. Crap writing, terrible animation, bad VA, awful story, the works.

    ThawmusSyngyne
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Edit: Godzilla Anime part 3 is also out now. Watching it now and wow, and this is very quickly took a Fundamental turn I did not expect.

    I watched it tonight, too. I never expected to be so bummed-out by a Godzilla movie.

    Ending spoilers:
    Nearly all of humanity is killed when Ghidorah (who in this is an eldritch abomination) destroys the spaceship holding most of mankind. Some of the survivors hope to use a mech made of advanced nanobots to rebuild civilization. Main character decides technology and civilization are inherently self-destructive. Pilots mech to commit suicide by Godzilla. Godzilla blasts the mech and its wreckage slams against his body and explodes. Fast forward to years later, where the main character is remembered in a tribal ceremony as a god that takes away cursed things to be destroyed. The end.

    Been watching Godzilla movies for literally as long as I can remember, and there was nothing I saw in that crappy series that would make me recommend the series to anyone. Crap writing, terrible animation, bad VA, awful story, the works.

    It had a lot of interesting concepts, but didn't do much at all with them.
    Ghidorah as basically a Great Old One was interesting. His design was wildly divergent, in a fun way. Plus, the scene where cultists praise Ghidorah only to be rewarded with Ghidorah's shadowy heads and necks creeping along the floor and disintegrating whatever body part's shadow it touches was an extremely cool way to get across that this Ghidorah is more alien than any previous incarnation.

    Friend Code: 1590-5696-7916
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  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    Binged Hi Score Girl in two days. It took me awhile to get over some of the character designs but the story itself is kinda neat and there's a bunch of 90s gaming nostalgia.

    3DS: 2105-8644-6304
    Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
    MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
    CanadianWolverineTexiKen
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Edit: Godzilla Anime part 3 is also out now. Watching it now and wow, and this is very quickly took a Fundamental turn I did not expect.

    I watched it tonight, too. I never expected to be so bummed-out by a Godzilla movie.

    Ending spoilers:
    Nearly all of humanity is killed when Ghidorah (who in this is an eldritch abomination) destroys the spaceship holding most of mankind. Some of the survivors hope to use a mech made of advanced nanobots to rebuild civilization. Main character decides technology and civilization are inherently self-destructive. Pilots mech to commit suicide by Godzilla. Godzilla blasts the mech and its wreckage slams against his body and explodes. Fast forward to years later, where the main character is remembered in a tribal ceremony as a god that takes away cursed things to be destroyed. The end.

    Been watching Godzilla movies for literally as long as I can remember, and there was nothing I saw in that crappy series that would make me recommend the series to anyone. Crap writing, terrible animation, bad VA, awful story, the works.

    It had a lot of interesting concepts, but didn't do much at all with them.
    Ghidorah as basically a Great Old One was interesting. His design was wildly divergent, in a fun way. Plus, the scene where cultists praise Ghidorah only to be rewarded with Ghidorah's shadowy heads and necks creeping along the floor and disintegrating whatever body part's shadow it touches was an extremely cool way to get across that this Ghidorah is more alien than any previous incarnation.

    Yeah, it's actually a huge shame that the series is so bad because there really is some neat stuff there to work with. It takes the idea of Godzilla as an unstoppable force of nature to an extreme, to the extent that he's changed everything around him. His big reveal would've been pretty awesome if the rest of the show around him hadn't been so bad.

    And I know most anime thinks tropes are a total necessity, but I just could not get past how ultra-tropey the events and characters were. Considering the premise of the show, there's no way it should've been so predictable.

    It could've been pretty awesome in better hands.

  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    It's not winning any Peabodys anytime soon, but I'm still very much looking forward to curling up in front of the TV and binging Future Man's second season this weekend. My tired body and soul are ready for a whole new set of low-end jizz jokes.

    DoodmannBanzai5150Atlas in Chains
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