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None of this is Normal. Flake keeps saying words.
MuddBudd
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Registered User regular
So Trump has been getting heavier criticism from the right this week. Enough that it's making some waves and we might want to discuss it. Because it is coming from people who have announced they are no longer running for office in 2018.
First, Trump has been having a Twitter fight with Bob Corker (R-Tenn) over taxes. It then gets personal.
Trump and Corker Escalate Battle Over Taxes, in Personal Terms [NY Times]
Earlier this afternoon, Jeff Flake of Arizona also announced he was no longer seeking re-election.
“None of this is normal”: read the full transcript of Sen. Jeff Flake’s blistering retirement speech [Vox]
The text is in the article, but here's the video. I think it's important to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uVk0KdPLpc
This thread is not to re-hash the 2016 election. Nor is it to debate what is going to happen in 2020 or even in 2018. We can take it as given that these two are not seeking re-election because of threat of primary from the right. Let's move on from that pre-emptively.
This thread IS about the divide between a President and his own party, and how long even loyal members of a party can stand firm in the face of gross incompetence.
Keep it on topic or the mods WILL lock the thread. I recommend reading their guidance on political threads here.
Are Corker and Flake just trying to put themselves on the right side of history now that they know they won't get another term? Are they the canaries in the coalmine for further rebellion against Trump?
Discuss.
First, Trump has been having a Twitter fight with Bob Corker (R-Tenn) over taxes. It then gets personal.
Trump and Corker Escalate Battle Over Taxes, in Personal Terms [NY Times]
President Trump renewed his attacks on Senator Bob Corker on Tuesday, chastising him for his skepticism over a $1.5 trillion tax cut. Mr. Corker responded by going on national television to say that Mr. Trump was “debasing” the United States and that the president struggled with the truth.
Mr. Corker “couldn’t get elected dogcatcher in Tennessee,” Mr. Trump wrote in a Twitter post on Tuesday. Mr. Corker, a Republican from Tennessee, is not running for re-election after serving in the Senate since 2007.
Earlier this afternoon, Jeff Flake of Arizona also announced he was no longer seeking re-election.
“None of this is normal”: read the full transcript of Sen. Jeff Flake’s blistering retirement speech [Vox]
The text is in the article, but here's the video. I think it's important to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uVk0KdPLpcWe were not made great as a country by indulging in or even exalting our worst impulses, turning against ourselves, glorifying in the things that divide us, and calling fake things true and true things fake. And we did not become the beacon of freedom in the darkest corners of the world by flouting our institutions and failing to understand just how hard-won and vulnerable they are.
This spell will eventually break. That is my belief. We will return to ourselves once more, and I say the sooner the better. Because we have a healthy government, we must also have healthy and functioning parties.
This thread is not to re-hash the 2016 election. Nor is it to debate what is going to happen in 2020 or even in 2018. We can take it as given that these two are not seeking re-election because of threat of primary from the right. Let's move on from that pre-emptively.
This thread IS about the divide between a President and his own party, and how long even loyal members of a party can stand firm in the face of gross incompetence.
Keep it on topic or the mods WILL lock the thread. I recommend reading their guidance on political threads here.
Are Corker and Flake just trying to put themselves on the right side of history now that they know they won't get another term? Are they the canaries in the coalmine for further rebellion against Trump?
Discuss.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
MuddBudd on
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The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Very much this. I wish this sentiment had appeared a lot earlier. And by more people.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Worked for a good 30 years
I'm not 100% in board with this criticism. As much as I would love to see conservatism in America broadly renounced by all practitioners in favor of peogressive policies, the abnormality of Donald Trump is a completely separate issue. The only actual vote I can think of that was a referendum on Trump was the Russia sanctions.
The party leadership knew exactly what they were getting into when Trump's access hollywood tape came out.
They almost dropped him then but decided to ride the tiger.
Nothing's changed so far.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Maybe act on them!
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
they won't
because they're not interested in governing
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
They won't because the RNC would close it's wallet, and they'd all be gone in less than 2 years.
he freed himself of the consequences though? it's not like he failed to get re elected
this speech goes beyond what most of the others have even done... it's not in any sense vague, it's not off the cuff. it's an extended attack on the damage being done in the grandest terms.
Trump is still at 80% approval among Rs as of last week.
I dunno if some concerted effort by R Congresscritters could dent that but I doubt that ones and twos making statements as they retire are going to really accelerate things.
Thanks for making this thread, since I kinda almost posted this in White House Chaos thread, since it’s kinda related I guess, being it’s who’s in the WH causing this.
Anyhow, I hope this trend continues. Flake is one of my Senators and I’m curious how this is gonna go forward with both him and McCain retiring.
One thing I’m afraid of is people like Flake and Corker garnering sympathy, and therefor the GOP as a whole, for being so “brave” in being on the Right and criticizing the Toddler and Chief.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Again, they're not interested in governing, they're interested in retaining their positions.
Our country is lead by a narcissistic reality TV star?
Spree shootings every month?
Heath care costs soaring due to uncertainty from congress's inaction?
No, better to keep quiet and keep your job than to actually serve the country.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
but it's kind of amazing to see people actually reach the breaking point there. I didn't know one existed.
Haley Byrd is a Congressional reporter
I mean I get it, that's certainly a difficult choice to make.
But like, if this isn't the time to sacrifice your career to save your country then you're never going to do it.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Similar with Dean Heller. The two of them are making very bizarre choices for relatively vulnerable Senators up for re-election next year.
Yeah, I dunno if we've quite hit a tipping point here... but this means... something. The best metaphor I've got is that it feels like a weight somewhere has shifted.
I suppose hindsight might call this the tipping point if this leads to more pushback against Trump and the right-wing agenda. But we need to see that happen first.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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EDIT: I don't think the divide is actually real. Policy wise they're right in line. Trump just says the quiet parts loud.
This is really about the thing we can't talk about here.
That implies a lot.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Wow.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
You didn't listen to the speech in the OP, did you.
Lol, whoops. I saw the news elsewhere.
It's what i get for having a job that actually keeps me working the full eight hours (for once). World of news just blowing by.
Even a small audience on the right is important to reach and give them a shake that things are fucked up.
Doesn't make flake a great guy but I'd rather see this kind of thing happen than silence.
I'm still pretty far in the "deeds not words" camp on this one, mind, given this is someone who's been more supportive of the president than McCain, carefully avoided actually referring to Trump in the speech, and only a week or two ago voted against relief aid to Puerto Rico.
On the other hand, he seems to own his rank hypocrisy in the speech itself, so I suppose we'll see what he follows it up with in his remaining time in office if he actually is slipping the party's leash.
Yeah, this really gets to why I'm not going to pat McCain, Corker and Flake on the back for speaking out against their caucus. Talk is cheap. These guys could take real actions that would shut some of this shit down. If all three broke off from the GOP caucus, they could put a huge damper on Trump's agenda. The thing is they are no better than McConnell, they don't care about what is right or wrong, what they care about is securing their wins and their wins at this point seem pretty worthless, since they don't seem to have any principles.
Bush Jr can get props from dissing Trump because he isn't in elected office, where he has the option to take a shit on Trump's agenda by either voting against everything shitty thing Trump wants or forcing his caucus to put forward leader that will tell Trump to fuck off, if they want the democrats in charge.
No, that would be 50-50.