I'm not surprised it works for some indigenous people; you can find the occasional Indian who doesn't mind Chief Wahoo or the Washington football team. Hell, Russell fuckin' Means was in, and a fan of, Disney's Pocahontas.
I still think it's dumb as fuck
"Look I found one person who likes it" is not a good argument
Look at Ben Carson
dude that’s a huge stretch
i found a dude who is like hey i like this character and i like that this story is being told, i didn’t find a guy who was cool with atrocious bullshit
no, if you aren't on the same bandwagon then your opinion doesn't matter and you'll be shouted down.
no, if you aren't on the same bandwagon then your opinion doesn't matter and you'll be shouted down.
Basically the forum motto by now.
"Now"
This place is built on the bones of a million dogpiles, that's just how shit goes sometimes
+26
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
I've straight up posted about how much I like Travis and have been told I am wrong and he Is Bad.
Being positive about things is difficult when stuff like that happens tbh.
Like, I loved the diversity in TAZ. I could have used a bi character, but I thought the characters were well realized and when I brought that up during the last drubbing, people told me they were doing it wrong and then I was talked past and over.
It doesn't feel good.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
The idea that it is a bad thing to ask for change and improvement in things that you enjoy is absolute poison
Who is saying that, though?
All I'm getting is static from you. All negatives, no positives, and it happens frequently enough where I'm not really comfortable posting more than a few words about what I like because I don't need a lecture.
Honestly Mal
All we're getting from you is negative too
If you want to be positive about The Adventure Zone (as several people have been) then be positive about The Adventure Zone, rather than being negative about other people being negative
I still listen to most of the McElroy's content, and despite being extremely turned off by the end of the TAZ Balance arc, I'm a huge fan of the show and its characters overall
But I am also not required to give positives to "validate" my negatives
By the same token, you're totally allowed to like the adventure zone
I'm not going to take away from people who enjoy their good goofs, I'm not trying to steal your fun
I want the thing I like to do better about being extremely offensive, and right now BECAUSE they keep getting an enormous amount of positive feedback about their diversity choices, that does not seem to be the case
You telling me I'm trying to be "King Ally" is, whether you realize it or not, shouting down the other side just as much as you feel you're being repressed from talking about the good things you like about TAZ (which, again, you are free to do)
I've straight up posted about how much I like Travis and have been told I am wrong and he Is Bad.
Being positive about things is difficult when stuff like that happens tbh.
Like, I loved the diversity in TAZ. I could have used a bi character, but I thought the characters were well realized and when I brought that up during the last drubbing, people told me they were doing it wrong and then I was talked past and over.
It doesn't feel good.
Keep in mind that a lot of the people who were extremely offended by Lup in this thread are, in fact, trans people
And now a native american is saying he is offended by this portrayal
People who live that life are upset by the portrayal, and they are saying so
I'm sorry you feel bad that you're being told the representation isn't as good as you thought, but its very, very important to listen to those voices
That'd be fine if all of the examples of people in those categories thinking the characters are fine to incredible weren't immediately dismissed as 'wrong' letting the conversation swing right back around to where some people have decided it needs to stay.
I've straight up posted about how much I like Travis and have been told I am wrong and he Is Bad.
Being positive about things is difficult when stuff like that happens tbh.
Like, I loved the diversity in TAZ. I could have used a bi character, but I thought the characters were well realized and when I brought that up during the last drubbing, people told me they were doing it wrong and then I was talked past and over.
It doesn't feel good.
Keep in mind that a lot of the people who were extremely offended by Lup in this thread are, in fact, trans people
And now a native american is saying he is offended by this portrayal
People who live that life are upset by the portrayal, and they are saying so
I'm sorry you feel bad that you're being told the representation isn't as good as you thought, but its very, very important to listen to those voices
I don't have a stake in this argument but it seems a bit incongruous to say you aren't trying to be King Ally and then tell someone that it is very important that they listen to certain voices (that you agree with)
That'd be fine if all of the examples of people in those categories thinking the characters are fine to incredible weren't immediately dismissed as 'wrong' letting the conversation swing right back around to where some people have decided it needs to stay.
I don't want this to spiral out into a different and more complicated conversation, so I'll try and keep it limited to this - if I express my opinion on an indigenous portrayal, and the response is, "Well this other person who you don't know and whose story you don't know and whose opinions on fiction and representation in general you don't know said it was cool"
Well, it's really hard for me to give that much weight.
Also that dude said "if white people don't put our stories out there no one will" which is not only a bogus premise but also flat wrong. It ignores shit like the First Nations television network, the Cherokee Nation's osiyo.tv, the LA Skinsfest indigenous film festival, the TV writing fellowship that granted me a spot this year, and a metric shitton of indigenous artists and creatives. I'm gonna have a hard time not dismissing a dude who sounds like he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
+20
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
There's also a huge difference between a screenshot of someone's Twitter saying that they think something is good and a person who is a member of this community saying that they think something is good. One is a static image - no matter how much we talk to it, it will never change. The other is someone who actually has amorphous beliefs that they can interrogate in the course of a conversation about said beliefs.
I’m really happy I don’t play roleplaying games for an audience. People assume I’m a cis het white dude, and I can only imagine the shit I’d get online playing things like L5R and trying to explore other cultural concepts like Honne and Tatemae.
Because I play roleplaying games to be other people. And that means when I try roleplaying a woman I am going to fuck shit up. But I’m not gonna to get better without trying. And I already am stuck with one life to live in reality. Why limit myself in fiction too
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Mx. QuillI now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually...{They/Them}Registered Userregular
I will say this:
If I had to play a Mario Party at gunpoint, I'd play 2.
I’m really happy I don’t play roleplaying games for an audience. People assume I’m a cis het white dude, and I can only imagine the shit I’d get online playing things like L5R and trying to explore other cultural concepts like Honne and Tatemae.
Because I play roleplaying games to be other people. And that means when I try roleplaying a woman I am going to fuck shit up. But I’m not gonna to get better without trying. And I already am stuck with one life to live in reality. Why limit myself in fiction too
I do think there are a few huge differences, particularly in RPGs
1. TAZ could easily go for diversity without going for representation. In other words they can have non-white/male/straight/cis characters, but without making that feature a huge part of their character and what they're all about. They already do that with female characters, they could easily do it with non-white characters. They can have non-binary characters and male characters that off-handedly reference their husband. At that point you just have to not fuck it up in some way (like burying their gays, which Griffin has done).
2. TAZ has an audience. TAZ has a lot more responsibility and potential to cause harm (and also do good) than you and I do playing RPGs in our living room.
worth noting that it's much much harder for the marginalised to speak out critically about something
in the context of friends at the table, during counter/weight a few nbs I knew found the show to be struggling with its portrayal of non-binary individuals
as an nb myself I didn't personally struggle with them fucking up pronouns occasionally but it's still important to air those concerns out, and season 3 really picked up on that front
fatt generally used to have the opposite problem as TAZ, in that they often missed out on opportunities for listeners to find representation in their show because they didn't want to define characters by their diversity
C/w had a prominent asexual man and a transman but they kept that so close to the vest (understandably) that it had to be stated in the post-mortem
I'm just glad that I don't do stuff like that for public consumption because I only ever play female characters and i'd probably fuck something up along the way.
Yeah I feel like it's a real difficult line to walk, wanting to represent marginalized people while at the same time not wanting the thing that makes them marginalized to be their primary character trait.
Especially when it's like... I dunno, announcing that a character is trans from the jump sets a real weird precedent, I guess.
+5
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Mx. QuillI now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually...{They/Them}Registered Userregular
"All we have to do is flick balls." -Abby Russell, Nov 3rd 2017
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Yeah I feel like it's a real difficult line to walk, wanting to represent marginalized people while at the same time not wanting the thing that makes them marginalized to be their primary character trait.
Especially when it's like... I dunno, announcing that a character is trans from the jump sets a real weird precedent, I guess.
Trans seems like a particularly weird one because the situations in which that comes up as something to be discussed just don't really occur in most TTRPGs.
Asexual is similar in that unlike gay/lesbian characters, where offhand comments can easily reveal orientation, ace is really only revealed by a very specific conversation or if your content frequently involves sex.
Posts
no, if you aren't on the same bandwagon then your opinion doesn't matter and you'll be shouted down.
listen, you can't "do" a Goldblum
you channel Him, when the stars align just so
Austin swears that he wasn't trying to do a Goldblum at all there.
Which is to say Indie has the right of it.
Basically the forum motto by now.
"Now"
This place is built on the bones of a million dogpiles, that's just how shit goes sometimes
Being positive about things is difficult when stuff like that happens tbh.
Like, I loved the diversity in TAZ. I could have used a bi character, but I thought the characters were well realized and when I brought that up during the last drubbing, people told me they were doing it wrong and then I was talked past and over.
It doesn't feel good.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
I still listen to most of the McElroy's content, and despite being extremely turned off by the end of the TAZ Balance arc, I'm a huge fan of the show and its characters overall
But I am also not required to give positives to "validate" my negatives
By the same token, you're totally allowed to like the adventure zone
I'm not going to take away from people who enjoy their good goofs, I'm not trying to steal your fun
I want the thing I like to do better about being extremely offensive, and right now BECAUSE they keep getting an enormous amount of positive feedback about their diversity choices, that does not seem to be the case
You telling me I'm trying to be "King Ally" is, whether you realize it or not, shouting down the other side just as much as you feel you're being repressed from talking about the good things you like about TAZ (which, again, you are free to do)
Keep in mind that a lot of the people who were extremely offended by Lup in this thread are, in fact, trans people
And now a native american is saying he is offended by this portrayal
People who live that life are upset by the portrayal, and they are saying so
I'm sorry you feel bad that you're being told the representation isn't as good as you thought, but its very, very important to listen to those voices
I don't have a stake in this argument but it seems a bit incongruous to say you aren't trying to be King Ally and then tell someone that it is very important that they listen to certain voices (that you agree with)
My Steam
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
seems false tbh
In the way that there's a "best" strain of influenza to contract.
I don't want this to spiral out into a different and more complicated conversation, so I'll try and keep it limited to this - if I express my opinion on an indigenous portrayal, and the response is, "Well this other person who you don't know and whose story you don't know and whose opinions on fiction and representation in general you don't know said it was cool"
Well, it's really hard for me to give that much weight.
Also that dude said "if white people don't put our stories out there no one will" which is not only a bogus premise but also flat wrong. It ignores shit like the First Nations television network, the Cherokee Nation's osiyo.tv, the LA Skinsfest indigenous film festival, the TV writing fellowship that granted me a spot this year, and a metric shitton of indigenous artists and creatives. I'm gonna have a hard time not dismissing a dude who sounds like he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
Because I play roleplaying games to be other people. And that means when I try roleplaying a woman I am going to fuck shit up. But I’m not gonna to get better without trying. And I already am stuck with one life to live in reality. Why limit myself in fiction too
If I had to play a Mario Party at gunpoint, I'd play 2.
I do think there are a few huge differences, particularly in RPGs
1. TAZ could easily go for diversity without going for representation. In other words they can have non-white/male/straight/cis characters, but without making that feature a huge part of their character and what they're all about. They already do that with female characters, they could easily do it with non-white characters. They can have non-binary characters and male characters that off-handedly reference their husband. At that point you just have to not fuck it up in some way (like burying their gays, which Griffin has done).
2. TAZ has an audience. TAZ has a lot more responsibility and potential to cause harm (and also do good) than you and I do playing RPGs in our living room.
Steam
in the context of friends at the table, during counter/weight a few nbs I knew found the show to be struggling with its portrayal of non-binary individuals
as an nb myself I didn't personally struggle with them fucking up pronouns occasionally but it's still important to air those concerns out, and season 3 really picked up on that front
fatt generally used to have the opposite problem as TAZ, in that they often missed out on opportunities for listeners to find representation in their show because they didn't want to define characters by their diversity
C/w had a prominent asexual man and a transman but they kept that so close to the vest (understandably) that it had to be stated in the post-mortem
Especially when it's like... I dunno, announcing that a character is trans from the jump sets a real weird precedent, I guess.
Trans seems like a particularly weird one because the situations in which that comes up as something to be discussed just don't really occur in most TTRPGs.
Asexual is similar in that unlike gay/lesbian characters, where offhand comments can easily reveal orientation, ace is really only revealed by a very specific conversation or if your content frequently involves sex.
She's just a token
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
which is on brand
has this stream been going all fucking day?
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated