I don't get it. You actually have to aim better on Moira than on a tank or dps? And this is tied to her heal's recharge rate too? Blizzard legit doesn't know what they're doing.
Also, coming from DOTA where patch notes are more...definitive, it feels like Blizzard are very fucking deceptive about their stealth nerfs. It's downright sneaky.
There's no way it's intentional.
Also, let's not forget, it's on the PTR. The entire point is to present unfinished works in progress for the public to test. You're meant to find issues like this and helpfully point them out to Blizzard.
I've never understood why people go there, find issues, and then get mad at Blizzard for them existing (variations of either anger at balance/nerf changes or calling the developers incompetent for creating bugs). You probably shouldn't play on the test region if you don't want to encounter issues!
Probably exacerbated by the fact that there's no communication about it at all. To my knowledge there has been absolutely nothing from Blizzard announcing that she was changed and nothing from Blizzard since the time people figured out she was changed. So nobody knows if it is a bug or intentional because Blizzard isn't talking about it.
To be entirely fair, Blizzard could have easily just posted something that said "Sorry, this is a bug, it will be fixed before release" sometime today. The topic has pretty much been dominating the forums and reddit, so there's no reason for them to be unaware at this point. I think people are... a little worried after Doomfist.
I agree, I don't think the silence is helpful, but I think that's also a separate issue. I feel like the Overwatch team was more vocal and forthcoming in the past and was met with similar feedback from the player-base at the time. Even if they commented on every currently known bug I'm sure there would still be plenty of people complaining that the bugs even existed, or disagreeing with ongoing balance changes in the least constructive ways possible.
I don't get it. You actually have to aim better on Moira than on a tank or dps? And this is tied to her heal's recharge rate too? Blizzard legit doesn't know what they're doing.
Also, coming from DOTA where patch notes are more...definitive, it feels like Blizzard are very fucking deceptive about their stealth nerfs. It's downright sneaky.
There's no way it's intentional.
Also, let's not forget, it's on the PTR. The entire point is to present unfinished works in progress for the public to test. You're meant to find issues like this and helpfully point them out to Blizzard.
I've never understood why people go there, find issues, and then get mad at Blizzard for them existing (variations of either anger at balance/nerf changes or calling the developers incompetent for creating bugs). You probably shouldn't play on the test region if you don't want to encounter issues!
I guess it's always more attractive to make a click-bait video about Moira being "dead and broken" rather than make a bug report.
You'd think, but a lot of obviously broken shit has made it from the PTR to live, so the only way to be sure is to make a lot of noise about problems, especially if they're not going to be forthcoming on what every patch is supposed to contain.
To be entirely fair, Blizzard could have easily just posted something that said "Sorry, this is a bug, it will be fixed before release" sometime today. The topic has pretty much been dominating the forums and reddit, so there's no reason for them to be unaware at this point. I think people are... a little worried after Doomfist.
I agree, I don't think the silence is helpful, but I think that's also a separate issue. I feel like the Overwatch team was more vocal and forthcoming in the past and was met with similar feedback from the player-base at the time. Even if they commented on every currently known bug I'm sure there would still be plenty of people complaining that the bugs even existed, or disagreeing with ongoing balance changes in the least constructive ways possible.
I have a bit less sympathy about that given that they have people on their payroll whose primary job it is to communicate with the community. Sure the community can be harsh and toxic and it's unfortunate that you have to deal with it, but... like, nevertheless you're still being paid to deal with it - do your job. If you don't want to do that, don't be a Community Manager.
There's been a LOT of issues on PTR where it's not mentioned in patch notes, the internet freaks out, and then Blizz is like... Uhh guys it wasn't mentioned in patch notes cuz it's a bug.
That's about 90% of the time when people freak out about undocumented changes
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
To be entirely fair, Blizzard could have easily just posted something that said "Sorry, this is a bug, it will be fixed before release" sometime today. The topic has pretty much been dominating the forums and reddit, so there's no reason for them to be unaware at this point. I think people are... a little worried after Doomfist.
I agree, I don't think the silence is helpful, but I think that's also a separate issue. I feel like the Overwatch team was more vocal and forthcoming in the past and was met with similar feedback from the player-base at the time. Even if they commented on every currently known bug I'm sure there would still be plenty of people complaining that the bugs even existed, or disagreeing with ongoing balance changes in the least constructive ways possible.
I have a bit less sympathy about that given that they have people on their payroll whose primary job it is to communicate with the community. Sure the community can be harsh and toxic and it's unfortunate that you have to deal with it, but... like, nevertheless you're still being paid to deal with it - do your job. If you don't want to do that, don't be a Community Manager.
Fair point. I don't mean to excuse their lack of communication; I vastly preferred when they were more open in earlier points of development and it's certainly not helping the negative feedback loop.
To be entirely fair, Blizzard could have easily just posted something that said "Sorry, this is a bug, it will be fixed before release" sometime today. The topic has pretty much been dominating the forums and reddit, so there's no reason for them to be unaware at this point. I think people are... a little worried after Doomfist.
Yeah. Fair counterpoints in this thread but I'm definitely edgy ever since the mishandling of Doomfist and the hamfisted handling of Roadhog's rework. Especially when it comes to any potential nerf to healers-having-fun. IMO, the single biggest source of anguish in OW right now is lopsided team comps, and having cooler options in the healer and tank pool are the number one fix to that. So I'm very wary that Blizzard is going to go full-Blizzard on Moira.
Verdict: It's a bug. They were trying to correct for cases where the beam either couldn't find a target around a wall or made an irrational preference for a closer target when overlapping, and the result was the much narrower valid collision radius. Also, the training bots were particularly badly affected (since, I believe, they only have two very simple hitboxes, one for the body and one for the heads, whereas full characters have hitboxes over each individual part of their body).
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
How could anyone possibly think that was a nerf and not a bug? Let alone claim as such with such certainty?
How could anyone possibly think that was a nerf and not a bug? Let alone claim as such with such certainty?
Because - and going back to Doomfist again - they didn't list Doomfist's hitbox nerf either as I recall.
Didn't this also happen to Lucio's momentum changes? They started as an unintended bug and then were fixed...changing it again and replacing some of its old functionality?
How could anyone possibly think that was a nerf and not a bug? Let alone claim as such with such certainty?
Because it's The Internet.
You don't seem to understand, logging on to The Internet instantly makes some people experts in everything.
(This was not a jab intended for anyone on these forums, unless they made a hyper aggressive knee-jerk reaction video and posted it on youtube...then it is a little bit).
Do you, in fact, have any builds in this shop at all?
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I think her orbs need to disappear quicker or set them up to leave after 3-4 bounces or something. They linger forever which, when tagged with that long lasso and a small hitbox for her, it's not classy.
I want to be able to shoot Moira's orbs to reduce the damage.
Use D.Va!
Yep, D.va's matrix eats them, also the orbs move slower and expire faster when they do damage, so the tank's job would be to get in there and soak them.
I want to be able to shoot Moira's orbs to reduce the damage.
Use D.Va!
Yep, D.va's matrix eats them, also the orbs move slower and expire faster when they do damage, so the tank's job would be to get in there and soak them.
More specifically he means Defense Matrix will kill the orb. But since they're a lot of small ticks the orb also does garbage vs armor, so Rein and DVa are great for just facetanking it too.
Moira's big weakness with her beam is that even though it has range and is easy to hit with, it's also very predictable. So like sure, you can put a little damage out on a Pharah, but who cares, any Pharah paying even a bit of attention will just back off around a corner with plenty of time, and if Pharah jumps you you're pretty well boned. People aren't very good at it yet, but I don't think it'll take too long before people realize that usually the best tactic against Moira is just full aggression. She's good at self-healing through poke damage, but once her fade is down she's super vulnerable to most characters vastly superior raw damage output.
Plus Moira is... Kind of a shit healer in some situations. She has no vertical mobility, so she can't follow her allies in attacks against high ground. Her healing range is limited, so she really doesn't synergize well with dive characters or any kind of team comp that spreads out far. And her need to put out damage to keep up her heals means she has big trouble maintaining resources in shield war style fights.
She is REALLY good at healing an aggressive, face-tanking sort of death ball comp though. Just push straight forward into the enemy and get massive AoE heals while they do it, overwhelm the enemy front line.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
+7
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
Placed high 2.5 and almost got to 2.7 again but now dropped down to 2.6 in a handful of games
Placed high 2.5 and almost got to 2.7 again but now dropped down to 2.6 in a handful of games
the masochist hamster wheel continues
Have three placements games left but I’ve done so well in my last few games I’m terrified that the last few will just be a shit show. Hell the last one kind was since it was a higher dude trying to help out his bronze friends on my team but we pulled out a last second win. It also reminded me that I don’t like the Russian factory map whose name I’m not even going to try to spell.
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
I like pairing up with ana, zen or mercy when I'm Moira
How could anyone possibly think that was a nerf and not a bug? Let alone claim as such with such certainty?
They're notorious for purposefully adjusting hit box sizes without a mention in the patch notes. It's happened a few times. This is the first time that it's been a bug.
Overwatch League Preseason is two weeks away. I’m more excited for this than I have been for any other professional gaming thing ever. Is anyone else?
I’ll probably be pulling for Dallas as a team mostly based on current rosters and hell geographic tribalism, why not. Until Denver gets a team I suppose.
I’m super excited for the OWL. I expect Dallas, Seoul, and London to walk all over the other teams, but who knows. Take the Koreans out of the Korean environment (every team is in LA for the first season) and they may not be at the same level.
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
edited November 2017
Had a bunch of Koreans on the Australian servers in my last game and it's such a massive handicap when against enemy teams that are actually capable of communicating, holy shit.
Just absolutely wasting everyone's time if they're not 6-manning
Her damage orb is phenomenal at blocking off small, enclosed choke points. And I feel like a matador just sidestepping every Reinhardt that comes charging.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
So many Genji players are afraid to challenge you when you have Moira. Its pretty funny since they usually can't wait to jump on a support.
The community confuses me. Raging like wounded bulls when they're losing but when the no limit arcade pops up all people want to do is play a full set of the same hero and lose.
EnclaveofGnomes on
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WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular
Witnessed the actual best thing on Annemunition's stream today. Playing competitive, some little kid got placed on her team, and he was just so relentlessly positive and encouraging. And optimistic in that little-kid kind of way.
Actual quotes, as best I remember them:
"OK, let's try to take the point this time, guys."
"They're really good. I better go Genji."
Sometimes something happens that reminds you why you play video games, and this was definitely one of those moments. Chat was cracking up.
Witnessed the actual best thing on Annemunition's stream today. Playing competitive, some little kid got placed on her team, and he was just so relentlessly positive and encouraging. And optimistic in that little-kid kind of way.
Actual quotes, as best I remember them:
"OK, let's try to take the point this time, guys."
"They're really good. I better go Genji."
Sometimes something happens that reminds you why you play video games, and this was definitely one of those moments. Chat was cracking up.
Posts
Probably exacerbated by the fact that there's no communication about it at all. To my knowledge there has been absolutely nothing from Blizzard announcing that she was changed and nothing from Blizzard since the time people figured out she was changed. So nobody knows if it is a bug or intentional because Blizzard isn't talking about it.
I agree, I don't think the silence is helpful, but I think that's also a separate issue. I feel like the Overwatch team was more vocal and forthcoming in the past and was met with similar feedback from the player-base at the time. Even if they commented on every currently known bug I'm sure there would still be plenty of people complaining that the bugs even existed, or disagreeing with ongoing balance changes in the least constructive ways possible.
You'd think, but a lot of obviously broken shit has made it from the PTR to live, so the only way to be sure is to make a lot of noise about problems, especially if they're not going to be forthcoming on what every patch is supposed to contain.
I have a bit less sympathy about that given that they have people on their payroll whose primary job it is to communicate with the community. Sure the community can be harsh and toxic and it's unfortunate that you have to deal with it, but... like, nevertheless you're still being paid to deal with it - do your job. If you don't want to do that, don't be a Community Manager.
That's about 90% of the time when people freak out about undocumented changes
Fair point. I don't mean to excuse their lack of communication; I vastly preferred when they were more open in earlier points of development and it's certainly not helping the negative feedback loop.
Yeah. Fair counterpoints in this thread but I'm definitely edgy ever since the mishandling of Doomfist and the hamfisted handling of Roadhog's rework. Especially when it comes to any potential nerf to healers-having-fun. IMO, the single biggest source of anguish in OW right now is lopsided team comps, and having cooler options in the healer and tank pool are the number one fix to that. So I'm very wary that Blizzard is going to go full-Blizzard on Moira.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
WHAT A GAME
I backfilled on it.
Verdict: It's a bug. They were trying to correct for cases where the beam either couldn't find a target around a wall or made an irrational preference for a closer target when overlapping, and the result was the much narrower valid collision radius. Also, the training bots were particularly badly affected (since, I believe, they only have two very simple hitboxes, one for the body and one for the heads, whereas full characters have hitboxes over each individual part of their body).
Because - and going back to Doomfist again - they didn't list Doomfist's hitbox nerf either as I recall.
Didn't this also happen to Lucio's momentum changes? They started as an unintended bug and then were fixed...changing it again and replacing some of its old functionality?
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
There's something so satisfying about killing a flying Pharah with a concussion mine at great distance.
Because it's The Internet.
You don't seem to understand, logging on to The Internet instantly makes some people experts in everything.
(This was not a jab intended for anyone on these forums, unless they made a hyper aggressive knee-jerk reaction video and posted it on youtube...then it is a little bit).
Full disclosure: This is mostly just because I am a Pharah player who hates getting beamed.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Use D.Va!
Yep, D.va's matrix eats them, also the orbs move slower and expire faster when they do damage, so the tank's job would be to get in there and soak them.
More specifically he means Defense Matrix will kill the orb. But since they're a lot of small ticks the orb also does garbage vs armor, so Rein and DVa are great for just facetanking it too.
Plus Moira is... Kind of a shit healer in some situations. She has no vertical mobility, so she can't follow her allies in attacks against high ground. Her healing range is limited, so she really doesn't synergize well with dive characters or any kind of team comp that spreads out far. And her need to put out damage to keep up her heals means she has big trouble maintaining resources in shield war style fights.
She is REALLY good at healing an aggressive, face-tanking sort of death ball comp though. Just push straight forward into the enemy and get massive AoE heals while they do it, overwhelm the enemy front line.
the masochist hamster wheel continues
Have three placements games left but I’ve done so well in my last few games I’m terrified that the last few will just be a shit show. Hell the last one kind was since it was a higher dude trying to help out his bronze friends on my team but we pulled out a last second win. It also reminded me that I don’t like the Russian factory map whose name I’m not even going to try to spell.
"...only mights and maybes."
I too like having a 2nd healer.
They're notorious for purposefully adjusting hit box sizes without a mention in the patch notes. It's happened a few times. This is the first time that it's been a bug.
I'm surprised and relieved.
I’ll probably be pulling for Dallas as a team mostly based on current rosters and hell geographic tribalism, why not. Until Denver gets a team I suppose.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Just absolutely wasting everyone's time if they're not 6-manning
Steam: TimIsOnSteam
Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
Her damage orb is phenomenal at blocking off small, enclosed choke points. And I feel like a matador just sidestepping every Reinhardt that comes charging.
Actual quotes, as best I remember them:
"OK, let's try to take the point this time, guys."
"They're really good. I better go Genji."
Sometimes something happens that reminds you why you play video games, and this was definitely one of those moments. Chat was cracking up.
So he got butters on his team?