Can a control Mage shell even function without IB?
I mean, I'd think so? The control/grinder mage types of lists seem either not to run it, or to run only one (presumably to deal with other OTK sorts of decks)
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
I do think its weird that Worgen Warrior was banned but there are plenty of other OTKs.
Sometimes it really does come to down to how developers and the community at large react to the offender. Sometimes, whether justified or not, the community will despise a particular combo even when another similar one is allowed to flourish.
+2
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
iirc Worgen Warrior also went off a lot faster on average than other OTK decks, closer to old Miracle Rogue.
I do think its weird that Worgen Warrior was banned but there are plenty of other OTKs.
I doubt any OTKs will get hit unless they become dominant and are easy to execute. Exodia mage is just a bad deck, like the paladin DK OTK. Cool and feels bad when you lose to them, but ineffective. Highlander priest is probably the closest to an actually good OTK deck now
I do think its weird that Worgen Warrior was banned but there are plenty of other OTKs.
I doubt any OTKs will get hit unless they become dominant and are easy to execute. Exodia mage is just a bad deck, like the paladin DK OTK. Cool and feels bad when you lose to them, but ineffective. Highlander priest is probably the closest to an actually good OTK deck now
The thing is Ice Block has historically enabled good OTK decks (primarily various flavors of Freeze Mage, although there have been moments of the meta in recent times where Waygate Mage was a good and popular deck), and as long as it's in the meta it threatens to support future Mage OTK decks. And it favors Combo way more than Control Mage because it's only really good if you can win the game in the span of the extra turn or two it buys you.
That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage. My second last game before hitting rank 5 was against a Quest Mage, and he or she dropped FOUR Ice Blocks. I still killed him or her on turn eleven or so, after their Exodia failed to Exodia (thank you, Spellbender). And I was sitting behind an Ice Block myself, with another in hand. My final boss for rank 5 was a Jade Druid, and that was an absolute curb-stomping. They would have been dead on turn 6 if they'd started with 40 health. I've also been winning the majority of my games against Razakus Priest, Big Priest, Zoo Warlock and Tempo Rogue.
It was by far my easiest climb to rank 5 that I've had so far. Basically, I feel like I had no weak matchups with this deck. Secretkeeper, Ethereal Arcanist, and Golakka Crawler have all been fantastic at putting on enough early pressure to win games on their own, while Ice Block is doing work to survive close games and provide a long term secret that isn't triggered. Frost Lich Jaina is probably the weakest non-standard card in the list, but she's won me games too. Still: she's probably not worth crafting if you want to build the deck and don't have her - a Bonemare or Firelands Portal would probably suffice.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
I don't give a shit what anyone else says, Worgen Warrior was a great deck that was a blast to pilot, and it didn't warrant the nerf it got. Let's see, you had to have the exact combo in hand, which was at least five cards IIRC, no taunt on the opposing side, and a tick from Thaurissan. There were and are many combos and archetypes that are way more toxic than Worgen Warrior ever was that never even got half the ban-hammering that deck did. I shed a tear every time someone brings it up.
I think whether the combo is evergreen or not is a big part of it. Blizz does not seem to oppose OTKs in principle; just not OTKs that are going to jeopardize their meta for the long-term.
Honestly I can't remember the last time I played a game that didn't have giant patches because you had to redownload every changed file. You're just going to accept that developers aren't going to bother writing patches when most people have fairly fast internet.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
i was going to be so pissed if I didn't get that card
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
So...is Leeroy/Shadowstep bugged? Cuz I had it for lethal against a pirate warrior just now and...the game just flat wouldn't let me attack with Leeroy the second time. Green outline. Couldn't click him.
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Sir FabulousMalevolent Squid GodRegistered Userregular
So...is Leeroy/Shadowstep bugged? Cuz I had it for lethal against a pirate warrior just now and...the game just flat wouldn't let me attack with Leeroy the second time. Green outline. Couldn't click him.
Just played a test game and nope, worked fine for me.
That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage.
How the fuck is this deck supposed to win?
EDIT: I've got exactly one win with it, against a priest who lead off with Goldshire Footman and Mindblast ... Everyone else gets wide boards that this deck just can't recover from. A single Bonemare is death.
That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage.
How the fuck is this deck supposed to win?
EDIT: I've got exactly one win with it, against a priest who lead off with Goldshire Footman and Mindblast ... Everyone else gets wide boards that this deck just can't recover from. A single Bonemare is death.
I haven't tried it but I assume it's just like any other secret mage, go maximum tempo, try to secret on critical turns
That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage.
How the fuck is this deck supposed to win?
EDIT: I've got exactly one win with it, against a priest who lead off with Goldshire Footman and Mindblast ... Everyone else gets wide boards that this deck just can't recover from. A single Bonemare is death.
I haven't tried it but I assume it's just like any other secret mage, go maximum tempo, try to secret on critical turns
I run the bonemare/firelands variant
Yeah that's basically it. Tempo out, drop free/discounted 5/5s and other Big Boys, win via board or burn.
The whole idea there revolves around dropping Big Boys (like Hydra) and then using Counterspell and Spellbender to protect your board while you push face. And you've got double Meteor for board clear/removal.
Mull hard for Mana Wyrm, Arcanologist, and Kirin Tor. Curving out a T1 Mana Wyrm into T2 Arcanologist into T3 Kirin Tor+Secret you drew is The Dream Curve. Doesn't always happen but damn it feels good when it does.
But mostly just Mana Wyrm and Arcanologist. You can keep Valet if you've got nothing else just to play something on T2.
Don't get too frustrated if you miss your 1 drop, or even 2 drop (it happens....). I've still won games off bad starts like that. The deck has multiple outs and wincons, you can get there eventually.
I would try spellbender/bittertide... but I'm not sure I want to craft 4 epics for it
Just ran into a jade druid in arena (that had elemental synergy too). At least 3 jade idols drafted and spreading plague. He got waaay too greedy though and shuffled the first 3 into his deck, only got the jades up to 2/2 before he was dead
That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage.
How the fuck is this deck supposed to win?
EDIT: I've got exactly one win with it, against a priest who lead off with Goldshire Footman and Mindblast ... Everyone else gets wide boards that this deck just can't recover from. A single Bonemare is death.
I haven't tried it but I assume it's just like any other secret mage, go maximum tempo, try to secret on critical turns
I run the bonemare/firelands variant
Yeah that's basically it. Tempo out, drop free/discounted 5/5s and other Big Boys, win via board or burn.
The whole idea there revolves around dropping Big Boys (like Hydra) and then using Counterspell and Spellbender to protect your board while you push face. And you've got double Meteor for board clear/removal.
Mull hard for Mana Wyrm, Arcanologist, and Kirin Tor. Curving out a T1 Mana Wyrm into T2 Arcanologist into T3 Kirin Tor+Secret you drew is The Dream Curve. Doesn't always happen but damn it feels good when it does.
But mostly just Mana Wyrm and Arcanologist. You can keep Valet if you've got nothing else just to play something on T2.
Don't get too frustrated if you miss your 1 drop, or even 2 drop (it happens....). I've still won games off bad starts like that. The deck has multiple outs and wincons, you can get there eventually.
I tried Firebat’s version, early in the season, and it took me from rank 17 to rank 20. I found that I was always starting too far behind, with no early game board presence, and Zoo and Tempo Rogue were able to seize the board way too easily. And then on turn five I could drop a Bittertide, but that’d just make the path to lethal for the other person even easier. Even against Jade/Big Druid I was just too slow putting stats on the board.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
Hahahah Dane already has a couple great Marin videos, but this one...
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
In Wild, rank 21, Asia someone just played the old turn 4 Brann + Coin + keleseth + Shadowstep + keleseth against me. Worked out pretty nice for them, they followed it up with a 6/12 Deathlord on turn 5.
I don't think IB is a design nightmare by itself, the idea you could get 4 of them in a game is. They should impliment some kind of 'cooldown' so that when your ice block goes off you cant immediately cast it again the next turn. This would keep it viable but make it more strategic since you would have to arrange freeze effects to cover your cooldown turn without granting several turns in a row of complete immunity which just is not fun.
Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
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Iron WeaselDillon!You son of a bitch!Registered Userregular
I'm kicking around on NA with the 80g quest if anyone would like free monies.
Iron Weasel #1268
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I don't think IB is a design nightmare by itself, the idea you could get 4 of them in a game is. They should impliment some kind of 'cooldown' so that when your ice block goes off you cant immediately cast it again the next turn. This would keep it viable but make it more strategic since you would have to arrange freeze effects to cover your cooldown turn without granting several turns in a row of complete immunity which just is not fun.
Appropriately enough, using Ice Block in WoW gives you a debuff that prevents you from recasting it for half a minute or so.
I'm kicking around on NA with the 80g quest if anyone would like free monies.
Iron Weasel #1268
Thank you!
It was cool seeing my Secret Mage deck from the other perspective. I think that I curved out pretty well on my side of the board with Shaman, and I just couldn't keep up at all with the continued growing pressure.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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Iron WeaselDillon!You son of a bitch!Registered Userregular
Posts
Depends on what comes out in the next two expansions until standard rotates.
I mean, I'd think so? The control/grinder mage types of lists seem either not to run it, or to run only one (presumably to deal with other OTK sorts of decks)
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I’d like to see other archetypes besides aggressive and tempo mages, and ice block has largely allowed that to work, especially when healbot rotated.
But I agree that it’s opened the door to a lot of degenerate combos and given the trajectory of the game it’s time for it to go.
PSN: Threeve703
Because combo decks should not exist in a game with zero off-turn interaction, yes.
Disagree, it's unique and flavorful design space. But it should not be in the "main" game forever. It has overstayed it's welcome.
Which is why it's such an effective deck... oh wait. I actually can't remember that last time I lost to a quest mage
What was the Worgen Warrior nerf again? If that was the Charge nerf that takes out a ton of potential OTKs, not just the Worgen one.
Sometimes it really does come to down to how developers and the community at large react to the offender. Sometimes, whether justified or not, the community will despise a particular combo even when another similar one is allowed to flourish.
I doubt any OTKs will get hit unless they become dominant and are easy to execute. Exodia mage is just a bad deck, like the paladin DK OTK. Cool and feels bad when you lose to them, but ineffective. Highlander priest is probably the closest to an actually good OTK deck now
The thing is Ice Block has historically enabled good OTK decks (primarily various flavors of Freeze Mage, although there have been moments of the meta in recent times where Waygate Mage was a good and popular deck), and as long as it's in the meta it threatens to support future Mage OTK decks. And it favors Combo way more than Control Mage because it's only really good if you can win the game in the span of the extra turn or two it buys you.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
That Secret Mage deck I posted last page seems to absolutely destroy Quest Mage. My second last game before hitting rank 5 was against a Quest Mage, and he or she dropped FOUR Ice Blocks. I still killed him or her on turn eleven or so, after their Exodia failed to Exodia (thank you, Spellbender). And I was sitting behind an Ice Block myself, with another in hand. My final boss for rank 5 was a Jade Druid, and that was an absolute curb-stomping. They would have been dead on turn 6 if they'd started with 40 health. I've also been winning the majority of my games against Razakus Priest, Big Priest, Zoo Warlock and Tempo Rogue.
It was by far my easiest climb to rank 5 that I've had so far. Basically, I feel like I had no weak matchups with this deck. Secretkeeper, Ethereal Arcanist, and Golakka Crawler have all been fantastic at putting on enough early pressure to win games on their own, while Ice Block is doing work to survive close games and provide a long term secret that isn't triggered. Frost Lich Jaina is probably the weakest non-standard card in the list, but she's won me games too. Still: she's probably not worth crafting if you want to build the deck and don't have her - a Bonemare or Firelands Portal would probably suffice.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I thought this was a comment on Keleseth decks for a moment...
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Just played a test game and nope, worked fine for me.
Might have been a connection issue?
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
How the fuck is this deck supposed to win?
EDIT: I've got exactly one win with it, against a priest who lead off with Goldshire Footman and Mindblast ... Everyone else gets wide boards that this deck just can't recover from. A single Bonemare is death.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I'm 2-2 so far, but from what I can tell you gotta mulligan hard for 1-2 drops and pray they don't drop Keleseth on 2.
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I haven't tried it but I assume it's just like any other secret mage, go maximum tempo, try to secret on critical turns
I run the bonemare/firelands variant
Yeah that's basically it. Tempo out, drop free/discounted 5/5s and other Big Boys, win via board or burn.
I play Firebat's Spellbender/Bittertide variant which is super slick: https://hsreplay.net/decks/bLD1Dacg6HMShbHVvGXlYd/
The whole idea there revolves around dropping Big Boys (like Hydra) and then using Counterspell and Spellbender to protect your board while you push face. And you've got double Meteor for board clear/removal.
Mull hard for Mana Wyrm, Arcanologist, and Kirin Tor. Curving out a T1 Mana Wyrm into T2 Arcanologist into T3 Kirin Tor+Secret you drew is The Dream Curve. Doesn't always happen but damn it feels good when it does.
But mostly just Mana Wyrm and Arcanologist. You can keep Valet if you've got nothing else just to play something on T2.
Don't get too frustrated if you miss your 1 drop, or even 2 drop (it happens....). I've still won games off bad starts like that. The deck has multiple outs and wincons, you can get there eventually.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Just ran into a jade druid in arena (that had elemental synergy too). At least 3 jade idols drafted and spreading plague. He got waaay too greedy though and shuffled the first 3 into his deck, only got the jades up to 2/2 before he was dead
I tried Firebat’s version, early in the season, and it took me from rank 17 to rank 20. I found that I was always starting too far behind, with no early game board presence, and Zoo and Tempo Rogue were able to seize the board way too easily. And then on turn five I could drop a Bittertide, but that’d just make the path to lethal for the other person even easier. Even against Jade/Big Druid I was just too slow putting stats on the board.
Iron Weasel #1268
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
Appropriately enough, using Ice Block in WoW gives you a debuff that prevents you from recasting it for half a minute or so.
Thank you!
It was cool seeing my Secret Mage deck from the other perspective. I think that I curved out pretty well on my side of the board with Shaman, and I just couldn't keep up at all with the continued growing pressure.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227