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Voting Day

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    Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    spite is a powerful motivator

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    give them free money, free healthcare, free school, free breakfast for children, jobs with high wages and good benefits

    this is not a philosophical fight, people want material improvements to their lives so give them something to be excited about

    -Tal on
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Hoy boy can I imagine the shitstorm they would create if we even tried to give them money they didn't work for.

    Quire.jpg
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Hoy boy can I imagine the shitstorm they would create if we even tried to give them money they didn't work for.

    You'd be surprised.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Hoy boy can I imagine the shitstorm they would create if we even tried to give them money they didn't work for.

    You'd be surprised.

    They won't take assistance that we also give to minorities. The problem is that they're unwilling to accept that their position in the world is changing, and quite a few of the small towns in these regoins just don't have a rationale for existing anymore.

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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    give them free money, free healthcare, free school, free breakfast for children, jobs with high wages and good benefits

    this is not a philosophical fight, people want material improvements to their lives so give them something to be excited about

    And then after they have that stuff they'll turn around and vote for Republicans who promise to take those things away from brown people, because that's all they really care about. That someone is worse off than they are.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    if people are gonna turn down free money why would they take a 17 step plan to incrementally increase tax incentives for manufacturing companies

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    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Another election record: Iowa City elected a Sudanese-American woman to the city council, very likely the first Sudanese immigrant elected to public office in the US. One of Mazahir Salih's goals is to get public transit in the city running on Sundays, because currently it's only six days a week.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    if people are gonna turn down free money why would they take a 17 step plan to incrementally increase tax incentives for manufacturing companies

    Because the latter s going to the "right" (read: white) people.

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Poor white people in rural and semi rural parts of the country aren't all idiots and active bigots. Portraying it that way makes it less likely that they will ever be exposed to ideas that challenge their own limited and honestly rather isolated experience. Granted some of these people aren't ever going to change their mind but giving up on them all as a lost cause is some elitest nonsense imo.

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    capitalism is real wild in that unemployed folk will literally reject help because they've been convinced they don't deserve it

    it's important to stop every now and then and think about how incredibly fucked up that is

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    turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    I guess this is the part where I reiterate that there are a lot of left leaning people or undecided people in rural areas, just not a majority. Deciding policy based only on the shitty racists isn't fair to the people stuck living near them. And ignoring those people when making decisions about federal aid and such is a great way to make them not want to vote because they feel completely alienated by all sides.

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    masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    There isn't some magical force in impoverished areas that forces people to believe racist narratives any more than there is one that lets them understand that getting out of it is not really in their control

    Just fight for policies that actually do good in the world and forget about pathologizing areas that have lived under constant material efforts to exploit them as inherently less moral than you

    Some people will listen, some people won't, you get nothing if you don't even fucking try

    masterofmetroid on
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    this is my bubble. it's filled with filth and despair, but I will stay here as long as the president says mean things about black people.

    what are you going to do. these communities are literally dying as all the younger people OD. no one has the answer because there is no answer

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    WheatBun01WheatBun01 Face It, Tiger Registered User regular
    as someone with a bit of a southern accent living in well, the south, it is incredibly hurtful and shitty when people cast a wide net describing my entire home as a bunch of backwards, racist, homophobic idiots - doubly so when I see sentiments about the poor people here getting what they deserve for voting for Trump, when I'm a full blown fuckin' socialist and also watching some of my closet friends and loved ones cutting out everything in their lives but electricity so they can afford to feed their kid and working two jobs.

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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    It wasn't to say that the next step was "and so we shouldn't do any of that, because fuck those people." If that was the implication taken away from my statement then I apologize.

    We should absolutely do all those things, just because it's the right thing to do and no one should live in a situation like what is going on in those areas. But we shouldn't expect a thank you or a change in voting pattern, because they will never admit that "liberal" policies helped them out and they will definitely never vote for a Democrat.

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    WheatBun01WheatBun01 Face It, Tiger Registered User regular
    also - i grew up deeply deeply religious and had a ton of homophobic/transphobic/racist views instilled in me and outgrew them as I got older, people living here can change and it may be frustrating and slow but it happens. Everyone in my social circle is moderately to far left and like 50% of them grew up here with me.

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    PwnanObrienPwnanObrien He's right, life sucks. Registered User regular
    So it turns out that a larger than expected turnout of younger voters is what drove a lot of this. Not too surprising. Back in early 2016 GOP pollster Frank Luntz was pointing out how young people are terrifyingly progressive. You've seen years of the Republicans trying to vilify and fearmonger about teenage SJWs on Tumblr and now that crowd can legally vote. The old men on Fox News are right about one thing, there is a culture war. The thing they don't want to admit is that they're not going to win.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    So it turns out that a larger than expected turnout of younger voters is what drove a lot of this. Not too surprising. Back in early 2016 GOP pollster Frank Luntz was pointing out how young people are terrifyingly progressive. You've seen years of the Republicans trying to vilify and fearmonger about teenage SJWs on Tumblr and now that crowd can legally vote. The old men on Fox News are right about one thing, there is a culture war. The thing they don't want to admit is that they're not going to win.
    I mean if they blow up the world first...

    Quire.jpg
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    PwnanObrienPwnanObrien He's right, life sucks. Registered User regular
    So it turns out that a larger than expected turnout of younger voters is what drove a lot of this. Not too surprising. Back in early 2016 GOP pollster Frank Luntz was pointing out how young people are terrifyingly progressive. You've seen years of the Republicans trying to vilify and fearmonger about teenage SJWs on Tumblr and now that crowd can legally vote. The old men on Fox News are right about one thing, there is a culture war. The thing they don't want to admit is that they're not going to win.
    I mean if they blow up the world first...

    Alternatively they can write pithy articles about how Millenials are killing the GOP with their avocado toast and Hamilton musicals.

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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    WheatBun01 wrote: »
    also - i grew up deeply deeply religious and had a ton of homophobic/transphobic/racist views instilled in me and outgrew them as I got older, people living here can change and it may be frustrating and slow but it happens. Everyone in my social circle is moderately to far left and like 50% of them grew up here with me.

    when you say outgrowing those beliefs the people in that article, and most like it, are all much older than you are. they're middle aged and elderly. your experience isn't going to be the same. most people around here acknowledge that a lot of us were kind of shitty people when we were younger, but the brain changes a lot going from 15 to 30. when you're 60? not so much.

    Jars on
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    WheatBun01WheatBun01 Face It, Tiger Registered User regular
    im not discussing the article in question, just the way folks and at times this forum often end up discussing The South

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    the DSA made a few gains, which is p. nice to see

    hardly enough to call it significant, but I hope the party grows in prominence

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    Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    If anything it's the Midwest that deserves to get picked on.

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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    WheatBun01 wrote: »
    also - i grew up deeply deeply religious and had a ton of homophobic/transphobic/racist views instilled in me and outgrew them as I got older, people living here can change and it may be frustrating and slow but it happens. Everyone in my social circle is moderately to far left and like 50% of them grew up here with me.

    when you say outgrowing those beliefs the people in that article, and most like it, are all much older than you are. they're middle aged and elderly. your experience isn't going to be the same. most people around here acknowledge that a lot of us were kind of shitty people when we were younger, but the brain changes a lot going from 15 to 30. when you're 60? not so much.

    I mean, I've seen the beliefs my parents and extended family hold shift pretty radically even in their 50s and 60s

    Admittedly they weren't starting from the farthest right and deepest held racist beliefs like the ones in the article, but more exposure to different people and viewpoints through cultural shifts as well as just trying to have conversations that challenge their viewpoints over the years, comparing and contrasting their life experiences with those of others has done a lot, I think

    It really requires a good relationship with whoever you're trying to teach, though, and it's obviously not going to work for everyone, but political and social stances aren't necessarily as ingrained as it is tempting to think. They just don't change quickly.

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    my parents are still trump supporters

    it's the last straw for my relationship with them - I'm just gonna quietly minimize how much time I spend talking to them

    not like they ever listen to or respect me anyways :rotate:

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    rich people deserve to be picked on mainly through seizing and redistributing the wealth

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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    nice offshore account, nerd

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited November 2017
    There isn't some magical force in impoverished areas that forces people to believe racist narratives

    that depends on whether or not the local news affiliate is run by warlocks

    Jasconius on
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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    You know I think Donna brazile may just be a shitty person and not someone worth listening to

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Bloods End wrote: »
    You know I think Donna brazile may just be a shitty person and not someone worth listening to



    Hmmmmm

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    IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know TexasRegistered User regular
    turtleant wrote: »

    Living in rural PA as a leftist fuckin sucks, for so many reasons.

    The overwhelming redness
    Watching where you grew up slowly die
    Being trapped there because of the economy
    Watching people bring all this shit on themselves over and over
    People in the two big Ps lumping you in with the people they hate for voting R and wishing you would disappear

    I don't think there actually is any way to fix rural PA at this point.

    My whole county basically revolves around a single factory for construction lifts. If that place ever shuts down (and it'll happen eventually, there's been rumblings about the whole thing going over seas for years) it will be a catastrophe. It's basically the only place that pays a living wage, other than the hospital, in the whole county.

    Dunno if you played Night in the Woods, but a lot of people have pegged the town it takes place in as rural PA, especially with the creator being a native.

    It...touches on a few of those.

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    turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    Ilpala wrote: »
    turtleant wrote: »

    Living in rural PA as a leftist fuckin sucks, for so many reasons.

    The overwhelming redness
    Watching where you grew up slowly die
    Being trapped there because of the economy
    Watching people bring all this shit on themselves over and over
    People in the two big Ps lumping you in with the people they hate for voting R and wishing you would disappear

    I don't think there actually is any way to fix rural PA at this point.

    My whole county basically revolves around a single factory for construction lifts. If that place ever shuts down (and it'll happen eventually, there's been rumblings about the whole thing going over seas for years) it will be a catastrophe. It's basically the only place that pays a living wage, other than the hospital, in the whole county.

    Dunno if you played Night in the Woods, but a lot of people have pegged the town it takes place in as rural PA, especially with the creator being a native.

    It...touches on a few of those.

    It's my GotY. And yeah, had to take a lotta breaks playing that.

    X22wmuF.jpg
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Alabama doesn't vote until December for some reason.

    And hey, Roy Moore (yeah, that asshole) who is the R candidate for the Senate replacement has been accused of 'initiating sexual contact with a 14 year old girl when he was 32'

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.84ecc80da2f7

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    Alabama doesn't vote until December for some reason.

    And hey, Roy Moore (yeah, that asshole) who is the R candidate for the Senate replacement has been accused of 'initiating sexual contact with a 14 year old girl when he was 32'

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.84ecc80da2f7

    It would be nice to live in a world where I could feel confident that this would cost him the election

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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    Alabama doesn't vote until December for some reason.

    And hey, Roy Moore (yeah, that asshole) who is the R candidate for the Senate replacement has been accused of 'initiating sexual contact with a 14 year old girl when he was 32'

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.84ecc80da2f7

    It would be nice to live in a world where I could feel confident that this would cost him the election

    He'll be elected

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Alabama doesn't vote until December for some reason.

    And hey, Roy Moore (yeah, that asshole) who is the R candidate for the Senate replacement has been accused of 'initiating sexual contact with a 14 year old girl when he was 32'

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.84ecc80da2f7

    'cause it's a special election for Jeff Sessions' seat.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I know about that.

    I just don't know why it's in December and not November.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    curious about how the Alabama GOP feels about it?

    (thread)


    Yes, they openly admit they'd rather vote for a (hypothetically) proven child rapist than a Democratic candidate.

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    curious about how the Alabama GOP feels about it?

    (thread)


    Yes, they openly admit they'd rather vote for a (hypothetically) proven child rapist than a Democratic candidate.

    Actually she said quite a bit more than that happened.

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