Like I said, we'll likely see some small tweaks that go a long way towards mitigating the snowball factor in certain games. That being said, I think this is indicative of where they want the game to move.
I honestly don't mind it all that much, but I do think that it will take time for people to re-sort themselves properly. One way to think about these changes is that it increases the value on certain skills and knowledge, and decreases the value of others. In particular, prior to the changes a lot of players were able to get by on literally not paying attention to the map or objectives. You could literally split push all game or just "play defense" all game or literally dick around for the first 15 minutes and then wait for your late game to turn on or the coin flip final fight to go in your favor and win the game. This is no longer a viable strategy, or if it is then it requires significantly more skill and execution to pull off (e.g., getting killed as a split pusher is much more punishable; playing defense for the first 15 minutes may cost you more than just one keep or even the game if you do not draft or play properly; etc.).
One thing I'm noticing in my games is that there is clearly at least one person on my team who frankly does not belong at the MMR. They literally ignore the objective, push all game, and die repeatedly. Or they get caught out in no-man's land where the enemy team is obviously waiting for them right before an objective spawns. Or we get a team wipe and their first course of action is to immediately go back to a random lane and not help the team get some kind of value. These players were winning a lot of games prior to these changes by sheer random chance - either their team carried them past their "small" mistakes or they managed to hang around long enough for the 50% coin flip Level 20+ fight. Now these players are dropping. Rapidly. And every single game they play in, their 4 teammates are dragged down with them.
Over the long term this should balance out, as people who know what they are doing will simply go down more slowly. But it will take time and a lot of games. And if players get fed up enough, they will simply stop playing entirely. Unfortunately, one of the things that might help to mitigate this issue, MMR decay, is not being implemented in HotS.
Which is part of why I get so frustrated about how HL Placements and the MMR system works today. Blizzard drastically underestimates the negative impact of putting players in games where there is a significant skill variance. That shit is just not fun for the majority of people in those games even when they are winning, and definitely not when they are losing. What we're seeing now is a similar situation on steroids, where the game meta has changed so much that "everyone" is getting resorted on a constant basis.
i don't think they underestimate it. i think they don't care. that sounds negative but isn't necessarily. i think the underlying assumption is that everyone will just play a billion games and it will even out in the long run. i think it takes a lot more than most will admit to actually get someone to quit
I know it's just an aesthetic, but holy hell some of those DotA hero names are generic as hell.
We're one week away from a Firebat hero called "Blaze", dude.
Cpl. Miles "Blaze" Lewis, actually. That's not even in the same league as "Anti-Mage" or "Batrider" or "Shadow Demon".
HotS is working from several pre-established fonts of lore, DotA started as a pure gameplay exercise. They're working to improve the lore side of things through the comics (which are excellent), but it's a work in progress.
Personally I'm always going to come back to this game, as it's the one multiplayer game I play consistently and that my real-life friends play. I really do hope that few from our community (especially ducks) quit though, as I really do have fun with the tourneys and analysis in the thread.
I can only speak for myself here, but I don't plan on quitting anytime soon. I've sunk wayyyy too much time and effort (...and money) into this game to just up and call it quits. Blood sweat and tears. I've stuck with this game through thick and thin, it's still my favorite game.
It's just that right now, it is horrendously unfun to actually play. I figured this out when I won a game and it didn't even feel good anymore.
So I'm just taking a break, until they come around and unfuck everything.
Mercs and minions were buffed too much, buildings were nerfed too much, everything is snowbally as all-fuck, games don't even last til 20 (sometimes not even til 16) anymore.
Anteus in that podcast interview with a pro coach where they couldn't say tooooo much about the strategies they're coaching they did hint that they thought things were messed up and stupid and hopefully that message is getting back to blizzard.
Side observation : Grubby seems to be getting salty every day now.
I know it's just an aesthetic, but holy hell some of those DotA hero names are generic as hell.
We're one week away from a Firebat hero called "Blaze", dude.
Cpl. Miles "Blaze" Lewis, actually. That's not even in the same league as "Anti-Mage" or "Batrider" or "Shadow Demon".
HotS is working from several pre-established fonts of lore, DotA started as a pure gameplay exercise. They're working to improve the lore side of things through the comics (which are excellent), but it's a work in progress.
I know the reason behind everything, but it doesn't make what I said less true.
"Game times are running a bit faster than we'd like now, particularly in high MMR bands. There are some tuning changes coming soon to help out with that."
So they are aware and I'm guessing will look to make a series of small changes
E- missed there were more comments, specifically they know that mercs are too strong now
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Anteus in that podcast interview with a pro coach where they couldn't say tooooo much about the strategies they're coaching they did hint that they thought things were messed up and stupid and hopefully that message is getting back to blizzard.
Side observation : Grubby seems to be getting salty every day now.
You know it's bad if Grubby is getting salty...
It does seem like game time is inversely proportional to skill, though. On average, higher-skill games seem to be shorter than lower-skill ones, which reflects the idea that better players make fewer mistakes, and know how to maximize their advantages and mitigate their disadvantages the most.
Which conversely means that games are "less fun" for those players because games are decided much earlier and they can't do anything about it.
Anteus in that podcast interview with a pro coach where they couldn't say tooooo much about the strategies they're coaching they did hint that they thought things were messed up and stupid and hopefully that message is getting back to blizzard.
Side observation : Grubby seems to be getting salty every day now.
You know it's bad if Grubby is getting salty...
It does seem like game time is inversely proportional to skill, though. On average, higher-skill games seem to be shorter than lower-skill ones, which reflects the idea that better players make fewer mistakes, and know how to maximize their advantages and mitigate their disadvantages the most.
Which conversely means that games are "less fun" for those players because games are decided much earlier and they can't do anything about it.
It's also "less fun" because they presumably get to play with level 20 talents less often.
Anteus in that podcast interview with a pro coach where they couldn't say tooooo much about the strategies they're coaching they did hint that they thought things were messed up and stupid and hopefully that message is getting back to blizzard.
Side observation : Grubby seems to be getting salty every day now.
You know it's bad if Grubby is getting salty...
It does seem like game time is inversely proportional to skill, though. On average, higher-skill games seem to be shorter than lower-skill ones, which reflects the idea that better players make fewer mistakes, and know how to maximize their advantages and mitigate their disadvantages the most.
Which conversely means that games are "less fun" for those players because games are decided much earlier and they can't do anything about it.
i don't think it is accurate to say that they are making less mistakes. well i guess it is accurate but not the whole story. it is a matter of who makes the first mistake. the rest don't matter. typically (in other genres anyway) the longer the game the more chance for the better player to showcase their skill.
so yes i guess technically 1 mistake to 0 with games ending quickly means that one team made less mistakes than the other. or it doesn't matter because their advantage was so vast after the first mistake that the next 100 didn't matter
I'm just going to spam this shit because it's hilarious and you all should watch them: https://youtu .be/xbBMVa2A68s
So umm, hey. Warning that there are animals killing other animals in this video. Nothing obscene or such, it's nature, but I was not expecting that at all from your description of the video.
My cat bribes the dog with her kills. Neighbors have caught her dragging squirrel and bird corpses over to the dog's hangout area and dropping them off. Cat is absolutely trying to hax the meta with bribes. Gonna have to stage an admin intervention soon I think.
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Anteus in that podcast interview with a pro coach where they couldn't say tooooo much about the strategies they're coaching they did hint that they thought things were messed up and stupid and hopefully that message is getting back to blizzard.
Side observation : Grubby seems to be getting salty every day now.
You know it's bad if Grubby is getting salty...
It does seem like game time is inversely proportional to skill, though. On average, higher-skill games seem to be shorter than lower-skill ones, which reflects the idea that better players make fewer mistakes, and know how to maximize their advantages and mitigate their disadvantages the most.
Which conversely means that games are "less fun" for those players because games are decided much earlier and they can't do anything about it.
Higher skill games finishing faster mostly tells you that the meta is fucked to hell. It means the better players have figured out better strategies in the new HOTS game and that those strategies result in shorter and snowballier games. Which is the opposite of what you want from the game. It suggests that the best strategies are more dominant then they used to be. Because those higher-skill players are also playing other high skill players. So if the games are getting shorter it's because whatever strategy they are using snowballs better and faster then games used to.
I know it's just an aesthetic, but holy hell some of those DotA hero names are generic as hell.
We're one week away from a Firebat hero called "Blaze", dude.
Cpl. Miles "Blaze" Lewis, actually. That's not even in the same league as "Anti-Mage" or "Batrider" or "Shadow Demon".
pushes glasses up nose excuse me his name is the shadow demon
Wait, those names are real? Look, real talk here, when I design games I focus almost 100% on mechanics and could give a shit about graphics and story. But even I would come up with real fucking names for my characters. Good lord that's lazy as hell.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
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I know it's just an aesthetic, but holy hell some of those DotA hero names are generic as hell.
We're one week away from a Firebat hero called "Blaze", dude.
Cpl. Miles "Blaze" Lewis, actually. That's not even in the same league as "Anti-Mage" or "Batrider" or "Shadow Demon".
If I'm being totally honest, the Lore behind Dota is actually pretty fucking good.
Like, legit interesting. And a ton of it is layered throughout the game for people to find. There are whole channels dedicated it.
I know it's just an aesthetic, but holy hell some of those DotA hero names are generic as hell.
We're one week away from a Firebat hero called "Blaze", dude.
Cpl. Miles "Blaze" Lewis, actually. That's not even in the same league as "Anti-Mage" or "Batrider" or "Shadow Demon".
pushes glasses up nose excuse me his name is the shadow demon
Wait, those names are real? Look, real talk here, when I design games I focus almost 100% on mechanics and could give a shit about graphics and story. But even I would come up with real fucking names for my characters. Good lord that's lazy as hell.
Like, I feel like y'all are really missing the point (and the history) of DotA here. It was a fan mod that radically changed how the game played, there was literally no importance to who the characters were when it was being originally developed. And then when Blizzard was like "you're too big now and we have to protect our copyrights, so you can't call her Windrunner anymore" they're like "ok I guess we'll call her Windranger now please don't sue". And since the game only got a full development team behind it a few years ago, after a decade of it existing as a mod and people getting used to the placeholder names, that's kinda late to change things. And with the extra developmental power they are throwing more resources into making lemonade with the characters as they are, with some actually incredibly good comics.
i mean, a substantial amount of their lore is devoted to why they choose to go by a title rather than a name
anti-mage is an orphan raised by monks, and all the monks were killed by wizards. he forsook all aspects of his life and devoted himself to the extermination of mages, tossing his name aside and defining himself by the fact that he is The Anti-Mage
there's no shortage of characters with actual names - earthshaker is Raigor Stonehoof, drow ranger is Traxex, alchemist is Razzil, phantom assassin is Mortred, crystal maiden is Rylai, etc etc
heck nearly every character in dota 1 had a name, anti-mage included, and they decided for the lore of dota 2 to just not use them
i don't deny that they're pretty simple, universal titles, but i'd hesitate to say that they weren't thought about and that there isn't story and reason
Personally I'm always going to come back to this game, as it's the one multiplayer game I play consistently and that my real-life friends play. I really do hope that few from our community (especially ducks) quit though, as I really do have fun with the tourneys and analysis in the thread.
I have no intention of quitting the game entirely. I just need a break, because it hasn't been fun.
It took all of, like, 24 hours to get hyped again when the Firebat info officially released.
I'll jump back in when he launches, no matter what the current state of the game looks like, because he's the hero I've been most hyped about (other than Zul'jin) since I first started playing in the Alpha.
Personally I'm always going to come back to this game, as it's the one multiplayer game I play consistently and that my real-life friends play. I really do hope that few from our community (especially ducks) quit though, as I really do have fun with the tourneys and analysis in the thread.
I have no intention of quitting the game entirely. I just need a break, because it hasn't been fun.
It took all of, like, 24 hours to get hyped again when the Firebat info officially released.
I'll jump back in when he launches, no matter what the current state of the game looks like, because he's the hero I've been most hyped about (other than Zul'jin) since I first started playing in the Alpha.
Yeah, I mean, Wraith King was originally called "Leoric". And that was changed to (Ostarion, the) "Skeleton King" when he was transitioned over to DOTA2, to avoid legal issues with Blizzard.
And then when that name got them in trouble with Blizzard, he was changed again to (Ostarion, the) "Wraith King". People do videos on this shit.
Yeah, I mean, Wraith King was originally called "Leoric". And that was changed to (Ostarion, the) "Skeleton King" when he was transitioned over to DOTA2, to avoid legal issues with Blizzard.
And then when that name got them in trouble with Blizzard, he was changed again to (Ostarion, the) "Wraith King". People do videos on this shit.
Also, after conversing with some of my DotA friends, every DotA hero actually does have a name from the original DotA. They just haven't all moved over to DotA2 yet; Anti-Mage was Magina, and Shadow Demon was some C'thuloid mash of letters. The catch is that the name you see in-game is what people ICly refer to them as the most--hence why you see Riki's name, because people call him Riki, but see Templar Assassin instead of Lanaya, because nobody knows her actual name (this is an actual plot point).
Firebat Protip: You don't necessarily need to cast Oil Slick first, if you're just looking to set it on fire for damage. Because your Flame Jets have range and travel time, you can actually Q first, then cast W toward the end of Jets, and they'll instantly set your Slick on fire.
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I'm pretty sure it's actually going to be correct like 80% to not like Oil Slick on fire. Who cares about three ticks of no damage when you could have a chunky slow instead?
Barring needing the heal, of course, but that's what the two charges are for.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
By the slick still slows while burning, right?
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I love tilting enemy DVa by waiting for her to pop out of mech then double leaping strike her to death before she can get in. Multiple times in one match.
Smrtnik on
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Posts
i don't think they underestimate it. i think they don't care. that sounds negative but isn't necessarily. i think the underlying assumption is that everyone will just play a billion games and it will even out in the long run. i think it takes a lot more than most will admit to actually get someone to quit
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website
HotS is working from several pre-established fonts of lore, DotA started as a pure gameplay exercise. They're working to improve the lore side of things through the comics (which are excellent), but it's a work in progress.
I can only speak for myself here, but I don't plan on quitting anytime soon. I've sunk wayyyy too much time and effort (...and money) into this game to just up and call it quits. Blood sweat and tears. I've stuck with this game through thick and thin, it's still my favorite game.
It's just that right now, it is horrendously unfun to actually play. I figured this out when I won a game and it didn't even feel good anymore.
So I'm just taking a break, until they come around and unfuck everything.
Mercs and minions were buffed too much, buildings were nerfed too much, everything is snowbally as all-fuck, games don't even last til 20 (sometimes not even til 16) anymore.
Fix all that shit and then we can talk, Blizzo.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Side observation : Grubby seems to be getting salty every day now.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/7nrzeb/average_game_length_has_been_reduced_by_144_since
"Game times are running a bit faster than we'd like now, particularly in high MMR bands. There are some tuning changes coming soon to help out with that."
So they are aware and I'm guessing will look to make a series of small changes
E- missed there were more comments, specifically they know that mercs are too strong now
You know it's bad if Grubby is getting salty...
It does seem like game time is inversely proportional to skill, though. On average, higher-skill games seem to be shorter than lower-skill ones, which reflects the idea that better players make fewer mistakes, and know how to maximize their advantages and mitigate their disadvantages the most.
Which conversely means that games are "less fun" for those players because games are decided much earlier and they can't do anything about it.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
You have also said that Trik isn't a salty streamer, so I'm not sure you're the best judge of these things :P
He didn't used to be! I actually stopped watching Trik a while ago, it became not fun.
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i don't think it is accurate to say that they are making less mistakes. well i guess it is accurate but not the whole story. it is a matter of who makes the first mistake. the rest don't matter. typically (in other genres anyway) the longer the game the more chance for the better player to showcase their skill.
so yes i guess technically 1 mistake to 0 with games ending quickly means that one team made less mistakes than the other. or it doesn't matter because their advantage was so vast after the first mistake that the next 100 didn't matter
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website
So umm, hey. Warning that there are animals killing other animals in this video. Nothing obscene or such, it's nature, but I was not expecting that at all from your description of the video.
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Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
really makes you think
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Higher skill games finishing faster mostly tells you that the meta is fucked to hell. It means the better players have figured out better strategies in the new HOTS game and that those strategies result in shorter and snowballier games. Which is the opposite of what you want from the game. It suggests that the best strategies are more dominant then they used to be. Because those higher-skill players are also playing other high skill players. So if the games are getting shorter it's because whatever strategy they are using snowballs better and faster then games used to.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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pushes glasses up nose excuse me his name is the shadow demon
Wait, those names are real? Look, real talk here, when I design games I focus almost 100% on mechanics and could give a shit about graphics and story. But even I would come up with real fucking names for my characters. Good lord that's lazy as hell.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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If I'm being totally honest, the Lore behind Dota is actually pretty fucking good.
Like, legit interesting. And a ton of it is layered throughout the game for people to find. There are whole channels dedicated it.
Like, I feel like y'all are really missing the point (and the history) of DotA here. It was a fan mod that radically changed how the game played, there was literally no importance to who the characters were when it was being originally developed. And then when Blizzard was like "you're too big now and we have to protect our copyrights, so you can't call her Windrunner anymore" they're like "ok I guess we'll call her Windranger now please don't sue". And since the game only got a full development team behind it a few years ago, after a decade of it existing as a mod and people getting used to the placeholder names, that's kinda late to change things. And with the extra developmental power they are throwing more resources into making lemonade with the characters as they are, with some actually incredibly good comics.
anti-mage is an orphan raised by monks, and all the monks were killed by wizards. he forsook all aspects of his life and devoted himself to the extermination of mages, tossing his name aside and defining himself by the fact that he is The Anti-Mage
there's no shortage of characters with actual names - earthshaker is Raigor Stonehoof, drow ranger is Traxex, alchemist is Razzil, phantom assassin is Mortred, crystal maiden is Rylai, etc etc
heck nearly every character in dota 1 had a name, anti-mage included, and they decided for the lore of dota 2 to just not use them
i don't deny that they're pretty simple, universal titles, but i'd hesitate to say that they weren't thought about and that there isn't story and reason
I have no intention of quitting the game entirely. I just need a break, because it hasn't been fun.
It took all of, like, 24 hours to get hyped again when the Firebat info officially released.
I'll jump back in when he launches, no matter what the current state of the game looks like, because he's the hero I've been most hyped about (other than Zul'jin) since I first started playing in the Alpha.
Yup, breaks are healthy
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Like, I'm a Tank main. I play Tanks. That's my thing.
(although really I don't "main" anything, but, we'll overlook that. Tanking's my best role, w/e~~~)
And Firebat looks CRAZY COOL and he's got everything I like about Tanks and he looks to be the first Main Tank we've had in a VERY long time.
Shit yeah I'm hype about this motherfucker.
E X T R A C R I S P Y
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
And then when that name got them in trouble with Blizzard, he was changed again to (Ostarion, the) "Wraith King". People do videos on this shit.
Also, after conversing with some of my DotA friends, every DotA hero actually does have a name from the original DotA. They just haven't all moved over to DotA2 yet; Anti-Mage was Magina, and Shadow Demon was some C'thuloid mash of letters. The catch is that the name you see in-game is what people ICly refer to them as the most--hence why you see Riki's name, because people call him Riki, but see Templar Assassin instead of Lanaya, because nobody knows her actual name (this is an actual plot point).
Just like, to be honest, I still call Stitches "Pudge" on occasion.
Steam: CavilatRest
Barring needing the heal, of course, but that's what the two charges are for.
Nope. That's why there's a talent to make setting it on fire apply a smaller slow for a few seconds.