it is actually a huge part of Firebat's gameplay of knowing when to burn the Oil Slick (for damage) and when to not (to retain the slow)
you don't always want to be burning it, especially if you're chasing someone
this is doubly important if you grab the talent that causes your autos to auto-ignite the Oil. i think if you're grabbing that one, that means you're also grabbing the ignite-slow talent as well.
Dibby on
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
+6
Waffles or whateverPreviously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen"Registered Userregular
Day 2 of playing the patch. Today was an odd day initially where Saint Justice and I got snowballed, but we some how managed to recover, and pushed back against the odds. Favorite being a Guardian Shrine one where we lost top keep with the first Immortal (Yeah, I know. We were bad) and later lost the second one. Our Samuro then figured out that his job was to kill the squishies. Once he figured that out, we swept the team easily. Less notable matches we kept getting matched with strange comps and got smashed. Was not pretty.
I am definitely noticing the tower weakness now. Minions are slamming towers pretty bad, especially Archer swarms. I haven't had a snowball game yet, but I have had them before. The only real difference I'm seeing at the moment is that I feel like the Matchmaker keeps making me the pivotal player that makes/breaks the team. Kinda frustrating in that I can't play niche or some viable tier heroes without dooming the team to a total loss
0
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Just ran into a guy who has been spamming Cho'gall games in QM to get a ridiculous win streak and automatic Masters placement in both HL and TL. He didn't even play well. I got a million picks on him with blind Stitches hooks and he still survived because "CHO'GALL IN QM LUL" and my team didn't have the damage to kill him.
What's hilarious is if you looked at his actual win percentages he sits at 50% for all game modes. Meaning he has to cheese the fucking system to get a decent win rate and somehow still boosts his MMR so high that he gets Masters anyway.
Holy shit they need to fix HL seeding and placements so people can't abuse it so easily.
Just ran into a guy who has been spamming Cho'gall games in QM to get a ridiculous win streak and automatic Masters placement in both HL and TL. He didn't even play well. I got a million picks on him with blind Stitches hooks and he still survived because "CHO'GALL IN QM LUL" and my team didn't have the damage to kill him.
What's hilarious is if you looked at his actual win percentages he sits at 50% for all game modes. Meaning he has to cheese the fucking system to get a decent win rate and somehow still boosts his MMR so high that he gets Masters anyway.
Holy shit they need to fix HL seeding and placements so people can't abuse it so easily.
i mean cho'gall is really good in this early game splitpush meta
that's always been one of his core strengths, he's really really good at just shoving lanes out early and sieging down buildings
i don't know if they're "cheesing the system" so much as just playing cho'gall, but i get what you're saying. yeah i dunno, mmr seeding has some inherent problems... but i think placements/increased uncertainty are the bigger problem. 10 games end up mattering more than an entire season's worth of grinding in some cases. or, on the flip side, if you just get unlucky your mmr gets fucking TANKED and it's really hard to recover from that.
There's still no way to see a hero's armor if you aren't playing that hero in a game, right?
If you highlight the hero in question in the select screen, in that pop up window it does state how much armor the hero has such as Anub and Tyrael having +10 Spell Armor.
There's still no way to see a hero's armor if you aren't playing that hero in a game, right?
Correct. You can see temporary Armor buffs, but not permanent baselined Armor.
IIRC:
- Johanna has 25 Physical Armor
- Arthas has 10 Physical Armor
- Anub'arak has 20 Spell Armor
- Tyrael has 15 Spell Armor
- And I almost forgot, Varian has 15 Armor with Taunt. Note that it's Armor, not Physical or Spell.
- Cho also has 25 Armor when using his Trait. This can go further up if he takes the level 20 stacking talent.
- Edit: And Greymane has 10 Armor in Worgen form.
It used to be 25/15/25/15, but there's been nerfs. It's actually been a bit hard to remember all this, I had to go to Heroespatchnotes.com and look up whether or not there's been changes.
And then of course there's Heroes with temporary Armor gains (ETC, Muradin, Diablo, etc) but you can see those.
Edit: Worth noting, perhaps, that Uther used to have 10 baseline Armor, but it was removed. Another example of how it's difficult to keep track of these changes, I swear he still had it.
There's still no way to see a hero's armor if you aren't playing that hero in a game, right?
If you highlight the hero in question in the select screen, in that pop up window it does state how much armor the hero has such as Anub and Tyrael having +10 Spell Armor.
There's still no way to see a hero's armor if you aren't playing that hero in a game, right?
If you highlight the hero in question in the select screen, in that pop up window it does state how much armor the hero has such as Anub and Tyrael having +10 Spell Armor.
Wait, seriously? That's new and awesome!
This has been in the game for like, at least a year
There's still no way to see a hero's armor if you aren't playing that hero in a game, right?
If you highlight the hero in question in the select screen, in that pop up window it does state how much armor the hero has such as Anub and Tyrael having +10 Spell Armor.
Wait, seriously? That's new and awesome!
This has been in the game for like, at least a year
Ahh, I see the problem. That's only in QM. It still doesn't help for draft modes, which was my main concern actually.
There is barely any real usable info in the draft mode screen.
It's kind of ridic.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
+5
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Ahaha, alright, I think I get the issue now. Mewn is playing HL on Cursed Hollow. Both teams trade bosses at 6 minutes in. They push with theirs, the other team comes back to defend.
The opposing boss, uncontested, takes the fort and the keep. Just it and a wave of archers. At 8 minutes.
If they had sent one person to clear the archers would they have come out on top?
I agree that's absurd, just wondering about the right call there.
I've been yelled at by teammates recently for not being at an objective while clearing enemy mercs, but in a lot of cases now I think just leaving a merc/boss undefended does more then an objective
Ahaha, alright, I think I get the issue now. Mewn is playing HL on Cursed Hollow. Both teams trade bosses at 6 minutes in. They push with theirs, the other team comes back to defend.
The opposing boss, uncontested, takes the fort and the keep. Just it and a wave of archers. At 8 minutes.
Yeah, something's fucked.
If you trade bosses the optimal call is for both teams to defend, so the other team definitely deserved to lose. That said, buildings are too weak now.
Their lead gameplay designer did say on Reddit that changes were in the pipeline to mitigate the issue of games ending too soon fwiw.
Ahaha, alright, I think I get the issue now. Mewn is playing HL on Cursed Hollow. Both teams trade bosses at 6 minutes in. They push with theirs, the other team comes back to defend.
The opposing boss, uncontested, takes the fort and the keep. Just it and a wave of archers. At 8 minutes.
Yeah, something's fucked.
If you trade bosses the optimal call is for both teams to defend, so the other team definitely deserved to lose. That said, buildings are too weak now.
Their lead gameplay designer did say on Reddit that changes were in the pipeline to mitigate the issue of games ending too soon fwiw.
The other team did defend. You mean mewn's team deserved to lose, yeah?
If that's the case, then I guess the optimal play in that situation is one that tends toward a longer game.
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0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I'm not saying that not defending is OK. But even if you make the bad decision to not defend, a single early-game boss should not do that much damage. An undefended boss would die right as it reached the keep wall before the changes, which is waaaay more reasonable (giving up a fort for free that early in the game is punishment enough).
+4
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
edited January 2018
This attack/defend tradeoff conversation sounds stupid to everyone else too, right? Like, how is that the state of a game?
This attack/defend tradeoff conversation sounds stupid to everyone else too, right? Like, how is that the state of a game?
The difference between an undefended boss 6 minutes into the game taking a fort (pre-changes) or taking a fort and keep (post-changes) has to do with the state of the game. The attack/defend stuff had nothing to do with my point, I was just saying it for context (IE, this happened because his team was dumb and let it happen, but even then it's too severe).
The Escape Goat on
+3
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I'm not saying that not defending is OK. But even if you make the bad decision to not defend, a single early-game boss should not do that much damage. An undefended boss would die right as it reached the keep wall before the changes, which is waaaay more reasonable (giving up a fort for free that early in the game is punishment enough).
Yeah. Making the incorrect decision to attack/defend should have repercussions. But a 6-minute boss destroying a keep without Hero support is ridiculous.
Ahaha, alright, I think I get the issue now. Mewn is playing HL on Cursed Hollow. Both teams trade bosses at 6 minutes in. They push with theirs, the other team comes back to defend.
The opposing boss, uncontested, takes the fort and the keep. Just it and a wave of archers. At 8 minutes.
Ahaha, alright, I think I get the issue now. Mewn is playing HL on Cursed Hollow. Both teams trade bosses at 6 minutes in. They push with theirs, the other team comes back to defend.
The opposing boss, uncontested, takes the fort and the keep. Just it and a wave of archers. At 8 minutes.
Yeah, something's fucked.
I dunno, don't leave bosses uncontested?
Yeah. That's just too much punishment that early in the game, though.
Ahaha, alright, I think I get the issue now. Mewn is playing HL on Cursed Hollow. Both teams trade bosses at 6 minutes in. They push with theirs, the other team comes back to defend.
The opposing boss, uncontested, takes the fort and the keep. Just it and a wave of archers. At 8 minutes.
Yeah, something's fucked.
I dunno, don't leave bosses uncontested?
Yeah. That's just too much punishment that early in the game, though.
I'm sitting on 20k gold and I was thinking about getting Blaze day one. But after some thinking, I figured I should just save the 5k gold to buy another hero as well. Besides, Blaze looks so awesome the wait times to play him will probably be 2 weeks already.
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I'm sitting on 20k gold and I was thinking about getting Blaze day one. But after some thinking, I figured I should just save the 5k gold to buy another hero as well. Besides, Blaze looks so awesome the wait times to play him will probably be 2 weeks already.
the wait times for new hero releases really aren't that bad and you'd make the 5k gold back pretty quickly. there really isn't much to spend gold on anyway.
I'm sitting on 20k gold and I was thinking about getting Blaze day one. But after some thinking, I figured I should just save the 5k gold to buy another hero as well. Besides, Blaze looks so awesome the wait times to play him will probably be 2 weeks already.
the wait times for new hero releases really aren't that bad and you'd make the 5k gold back pretty quickly. there really isn't much to spend gold on anyway.
20k gold isn't really all that much to just throw away, though. That's at the point that I would consider waiting for the 10k drop.
In the end, it's your choice though. You could always just play Abathur in QM when Blaze is released. Easiest way to "play" all the new heroes
I've got gold falling out of my ass. It's up to like 50k+ at this stage.
There's nothing to spend it on anymore except new heroes at release.
I'm in a similar position. I don't actually own every hero... but I don't want to play some of them, so it works out. It's mostly me being miserly when I don't buy heroes I think I may like Day 1 :P
That, and I'm grumpy that after I bought Hanzo they did an ahead-of-schedule price drop a few hours later.
I'm sitting on 20k gold and I was thinking about getting Blaze day one. But after some thinking, I figured I should just save the 5k gold to buy another hero as well. Besides, Blaze looks so awesome the wait times to play him will probably be 2 weeks already.
the wait times for new hero releases really aren't that bad and you'd make the 5k gold back pretty quickly. there really isn't much to spend gold on anyway.
20k gold isn't really all that much to just throw away, though. That's at the point that I would consider waiting for the 10k drop.
In the end, it's your choice though. You could always just play Abathur in QM when Blaze is released. Easiest way to "play" all the new heroes
that's the thing, what else are you spending it on? i am around 20k as well and day 1 any hero of interest.
I'm sitting on 20k gold and I was thinking about getting Blaze day one. But after some thinking, I figured I should just save the 5k gold to buy another hero as well. Besides, Blaze looks so awesome the wait times to play him will probably be 2 weeks already.
the wait times for new hero releases really aren't that bad and you'd make the 5k gold back pretty quickly. there really isn't much to spend gold on anyway.
20k gold isn't really all that much to just throw away, though. That's at the point that I would consider waiting for the 10k drop.
In the end, it's your choice though. You could always just play Abathur in QM when Blaze is released. Easiest way to "play" all the new heroes
that's the thing, what else are you spending it on? i am around 20k as well and day 1 any hero of interest.
Any older hero's you don't have but may want to try soon ish
I'm missing Brightwing (7k), Hanzo, Abathur, TLV, Junkrat, and KT. That's 57k gold in heroes, although I have no plans on buying TLV or Abathur so 37k. If I buy Blaze at 10k, I can pick up Junkrat, KT, or Hanzo as well (no idea which). I'd like a finished roster at level 5 each one day.
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you don't always want to be burning it, especially if you're chasing someone
this is doubly important if you grab the talent that causes your autos to auto-ignite the Oil. i think if you're grabbing that one, that means you're also grabbing the ignite-slow talent as well.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I am definitely noticing the tower weakness now. Minions are slamming towers pretty bad, especially Archer swarms. I haven't had a snowball game yet, but I have had them before. The only real difference I'm seeing at the moment is that I feel like the Matchmaker keeps making me the pivotal player that makes/breaks the team. Kinda frustrating in that I can't play niche or some viable tier heroes without dooming the team to a total loss
What's hilarious is if you looked at his actual win percentages he sits at 50% for all game modes. Meaning he has to cheese the fucking system to get a decent win rate and somehow still boosts his MMR so high that he gets Masters anyway.
Holy shit they need to fix HL seeding and placements so people can't abuse it so easily.
i mean cho'gall is really good in this early game splitpush meta
that's always been one of his core strengths, he's really really good at just shoving lanes out early and sieging down buildings
i don't know if they're "cheesing the system" so much as just playing cho'gall, but i get what you're saying. yeah i dunno, mmr seeding has some inherent problems... but i think placements/increased uncertainty are the bigger problem. 10 games end up mattering more than an entire season's worth of grinding in some cases. or, on the flip side, if you just get unlucky your mmr gets fucking TANKED and it's really hard to recover from that.
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If you highlight the hero in question in the select screen, in that pop up window it does state how much armor the hero has such as Anub and Tyrael having +10 Spell Armor.
Correct. You can see temporary Armor buffs, but not permanent baselined Armor.
IIRC:
- Johanna has 25 Physical Armor
- Arthas has 10 Physical Armor
- Anub'arak has 20 Spell Armor
- Tyrael has 15 Spell Armor
- And I almost forgot, Varian has 15 Armor with Taunt. Note that it's Armor, not Physical or Spell.
- Cho also has 25 Armor when using his Trait. This can go further up if he takes the level 20 stacking talent.
- Edit: And Greymane has 10 Armor in Worgen form.
It used to be 25/15/25/15, but there's been nerfs. It's actually been a bit hard to remember all this, I had to go to Heroespatchnotes.com and look up whether or not there's been changes.
And then of course there's Heroes with temporary Armor gains (ETC, Muradin, Diablo, etc) but you can see those.
Edit: Worth noting, perhaps, that Uther used to have 10 baseline Armor, but it was removed. Another example of how it's difficult to keep track of these changes, I swear he still had it.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Steam: CavilatRest
Wait, seriously? That's new and awesome!
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This has been in the game for like, at least a year
Ahh, I see the problem. That's only in QM. It still doesn't help for draft modes, which was my main concern actually.
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There is barely any real usable info in the draft mode screen.
It's kind of ridic.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
The opposing boss, uncontested, takes the fort and the keep. Just it and a wave of archers. At 8 minutes.
Yeah, something's fucked.
I agree that's absurd, just wondering about the right call there.
I've been yelled at by teammates recently for not being at an objective while clearing enemy mercs, but in a lot of cases now I think just leaving a merc/boss undefended does more then an objective
If you trade bosses the optimal call is for both teams to defend, so the other team definitely deserved to lose. That said, buildings are too weak now.
Their lead gameplay designer did say on Reddit that changes were in the pipeline to mitigate the issue of games ending too soon fwiw.
Steam: CavilatRest
The other team did defend. You mean mewn's team deserved to lose, yeah?
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Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
The difference between an undefended boss 6 minutes into the game taking a fort (pre-changes) or taking a fort and keep (post-changes) has to do with the state of the game. The attack/defend stuff had nothing to do with my point, I was just saying it for context (IE, this happened because his team was dumb and let it happen, but even then it's too severe).
Yeah. Making the incorrect decision to attack/defend should have repercussions. But a 6-minute boss destroying a keep without Hero support is ridiculous.
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ahaha holy shit "I got top" while the enemy core is literally at 50% and falling
I dunno, don't leave bosses uncontested?
Yeah. That's just too much punishment that early in the game, though.
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This is what I was saying above, to be clear. <_<
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
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the wait times for new hero releases really aren't that bad and you'd make the 5k gold back pretty quickly. there really isn't much to spend gold on anyway.
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20k gold isn't really all that much to just throw away, though. That's at the point that I would consider waiting for the 10k drop.
In the end, it's your choice though. You could always just play Abathur in QM when Blaze is released. Easiest way to "play" all the new heroes
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There's nothing to spend it on anymore except new heroes at release.
I'm in a similar position. I don't actually own every hero... but I don't want to play some of them, so it works out. It's mostly me being miserly when I don't buy heroes I think I may like Day 1 :P
That, and I'm grumpy that after I bought Hanzo they did an ahead-of-schedule price drop a few hours later.
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that's the thing, what else are you spending it on? i am around 20k as well and day 1 any hero of interest.
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Any older hero's you don't have but may want to try soon ish
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wra
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