Apparently the official statement from Russia is that Trump and Putin did not discuss the election at all.
You know, in kind of a twisted way, I envy the amount of fun the Russians must be having with this.
"Comrade, Damp American President has said he spoke with Shirtless Leader."
"Pfffft ok, ok hahaha good now be releasing statement that Shirtless Leader did not speak with him ahaha."
My admittedly non-professional theory is that the goal of the Russians was to influence the election and harangue the expected Clinton presidency. I don't think they expected Trump to actually win. Their operation has been an incredible, historic success far beyond what they expected. Putin and his cronies are probably very pleased.
I dunno if they were necessarily interested in a specific outcome as much as destabilizing the country to the point where they have a free hand in controlling the near abroad or whittling away at NATO's eastern members and prospective members.
If Clinton had won the result at this point might not have been much different for them - the White House wouldn't be openly Russophile, but they'd also be too busy dealing with a Congress waging war on the president to pay much attention to anything going on in Ukraine or Kazakhstan or what-have-you. The MAGAbots on social media would probably be at least as loud, too. If you have people doubting the legitimacy of the government, its policies, and the democratic process in general...
Granted, getting a White House and a Congress that are openly supportive of Putin probably falls under "we couldn't anticipate this because it's so implausible we wouldn't have thought of it," so who knows what the current plans are..
“This artificial Democratic hit job gets in the way and that’s a shame because people will die because of it,” he said. “And it’s a pure hit job.”
What the actual fuck. This is something Trump said on Air Force 1.
It's the old canard that anyone who angers Russia too much will guarantee a hot war with them. That's one of the reasons people voted for him, because he'd be BFF's with Putin.
+2
Options
HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???
Mueller must have freaked him out recently, so he's gas lighting like he's never gaslit before.
Cause he's a maniac. Maniac. On the phone.
Aaaaand I've just ruined Flashdance for myself forever. I'll see myself out.
“This artificial Democratic hit job gets in the way and that’s a shame because people will die because of it,” he said. “And it’s a pure hit job.”
What the actual fuck. This is something Trump said on Air Force 1.
He'll say something stupider at Mar-A-Lago real soon, I'm sure.
It's probably a dumbass suggestion that if we investigate this Russia thing, then we cannot possibly investigate anything else. Like the terrorists that are hiding under your bed.
It's the sort of thing a terrible manager says because he's only capable of focusing on one thing at a time.
I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???
His good pal and confidante Vlad told him he didn't do it? Is Trump not supposed to trust the word of another duly elected President? /sarcasm(just in case it wasn't apparent)
The interpretation that The Guardian took from it was that he was saying anything that prevents normalisation of relations between the US and Russia prevents cooperation on current conflicts like Syria and potential conflicts like North Korea.
Which to me seems implausibly nuanced for an off the cuff Trump remark.
+24
Options
ChimeraMonster girl with a snek tail and five eyesBad puns, that's how eye roll. Registered Userregular
edited November 2017
Guys it's okay, Trump talked to Putin in person and Putin said Russia didn't meddle in the election and Trump says he believes that Putin "really meant it" so it didn't happen and we can all move on because why would either lie?
Now onto more important things like ballooning the debt by 1.7 trillion dollars with a tax cut on the wealthy because the GOP is and has never been concerned with the national debt levels rising and getting rid of the ability for those not covered by the tax breaks to have health care. You know, the real issues that are destroying our country and threatening our democracy.
Pack it up everybody, Trump knows Putin didn't meddle in our elections because Putin told him so again (WaPo link)
HANOI — President Trump said Saturday that Russian President Vladimir Putin again denied his nation tampered in the U.S. presidential election last year, during brief conversations on the sidelines of an international summit.
Trump told reporters that he and Putin had more than one informal discussion after crossing paths at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum in Danang, Vietnam, before Trump flew to Hanoi for a bilateral meeting Sunday with Vietnamese leaders.
“He said he didn't meddle,” Trump said. “I asked him again. You can only ask so many times … He said he absolutely did not meddle in our election. He did not do what they are saying he did.”
"There was no collusion," Trump said on the plane. "Everybody knows there was no collusion." The president added that he is determined to enlist Moscow's help to end the civil war in Syria and to ramp up pressure on North Korea over its nuclear weapons program.
He said the investigation into his campaign's ties with Russia could hurt those efforts. "I think it’s a shame that something like that could destroy a very important potential relationship between 2 countries that are really important countries," Trump said.
Trump also cast blame on President Obama and Clinton, who famously attempted a "reset" of U.S. relations with Russia in Obama's first term. Trump referred to Clinton's "stupid reset button," in which she presented Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov with an oversized "reset button" that erroneously used the Russian word for "overcharged" instead of "reset."
"Hillary tried it, she failed, nobody mentions it," Trump said. "She hit that reset button, it was a joke. But she tried and she failed." Trump said Obama had bad chemistry with Putin and Clinton was "in way over her head.
Trump did not answer when asked during the Air Force One flight to Hanoi whether he believed Putin's denial of the tampering.
“Every time he sees me, he says, 'I didn't do that,'" Trump said, “but I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it … I think he is very insulted by it, which is not a good thing for our country.”
The best and brightest president.
It's not like as a former spy Putin would be able to lie to someones face.
+28
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???
It also looks silly as shit because at one time he was defending himself with "that's not collusion" and another time with "so what if it was collusion?"
I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???
At this point literally the only answer that makes sense is blackmail.
Trump lashes out and insults everyone even his own staff and allies for little to no reason. Putin is the only person he defers to everytime.
I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???
At this point literally the only answer that makes sense is blackmail.
Trump lashes out and insults everyone even his own staff and allies for little to no reason. Putin is the only person he defers to everytime.
He seems to see him as his superior.
+1
Options
MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???
At this point literally the only answer that makes sense is blackmail.
Trump lashes out and insults everyone even his own staff and allies for little to no reason. Putin is the only person he defers to everytime.
He seems to see him as his superior.
Bullies are easily bullied themselves when a bigger/stronger/smarter/meaner one comes along.
+26
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???
At this point literally the only answer that makes sense is blackmail.
Trump lashes out and insults everyone even his own staff and allies for little to no reason. Putin is the only person he defers to everytime.
Trump also tends to talk about things when someone literally spoke to him about it that day, so it's not far-fetched to imagine that a Russian representative got to meet with him and say "AHEM" (given that his proximity to Russia at the moment is close and who knows how international travel works over in China).
I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???
At this point literally the only answer that makes sense is blackmail.
Trump lashes out and insults everyone even his own staff and allies for little to no reason. Putin is the only person he defers to everytime.
Trump also tends to talk about things when someone literally spoke to him about it that day, so it's not far-fetched to imagine that a Russian representative got to meet with him and say "AHEM" (given that his proximity to Russia at the moment is close and who knows how international travel works over in China).
Yeah he tends to call people liars or cowards or monsters the next day
0
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
"And that's when I looked Mr. Comey in the eye and I asked him are you a cop? Because you totally have to tell me if you are a cop. And he said no! And that is why I fired him"
Now technically... I don't think the FBI are cops at all? In the technical sense of what powers they have.
FBI are federal law enforcement officers that answer to US prosecutors, are always armed when on duty and arrest charged federal criminals. I'd call them cops especially compared to their colleagues in intelligence like the CIA and NSA who do not enforce the law in any capacity.
I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???
At this point literally the only answer that makes sense is blackmail.
Trump lashes out and insults everyone even his own staff and allies for little to no reason. Putin is the only person he defers to everytime.
Trump also tends to talk about things when someone literally spoke to him about it that day, so it's not far-fetched to imagine that a Russian representative got to meet with him and say "AHEM" (given that his proximity to Russia at the moment is close and who knows how international travel works over in China).
Yeah he tends to call people liars or cowards or monsters the next day
That's the surprising thing to me. Usually when someone crosses him, like the russians just did again by saying they didn't talk at all about the election, he lashes out on twitter immediately.
I know we've been at this exact same place before, but Trump's attacks on our own intelligence agencies still amazes me in it's brashness.
It does make me think of a line in The West Wing:
"How do I know this isn't the start of a military coup? I want the Secret Service in here right now."
"Mr President, in the event of a military coup, what makes you think the Secret Service is gonna be on your side?"
I don't think it'll go that far (although the number of things in the last year that happened when I didn't think they'd happen gives me some pause for thought), but he's really not giving them any incentive to help him in any way.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
+2
Options
jmcdonaldI voted, did you?DC(ish)Registered Userregular
So uh ... can anyone point to Seth Abramson "being wrong more often than right?" I ask because in my experience, it has been the opposite. Yes, he makes assumptions. But he's also posting facts, which he bases those assumptions on. It's analysis and guess-work, sometimes, but those parts of his posts are easy to distinguish from the facts. I'm not arguing to allow us to post things from him, so please don't get the wrong idea. I've been vastly more well-informed reading his posts on Twitter than I have with mainstream news sources that don't go into nearly as much detail, or connect the dots the way he does. In fact, Id go so far as to say he's the reason I have such a strong grasp of the situation at all.
Anyways, I've seen people complain about him on here without backing it up other than to go "oh, Seth; pshaw."
So uh ... can anyone point to Seth Abramson "being wrong more often than right?" I ask because in my experience, it has been the opposite. Yes, he makes assumptions. But he's also posting facts, which he bases those assumptions on. It's analysis and guess-work, sometimes, but those parts of his posts are easy to distinguish from the facts. I'm not arguing to allow us to post things from him, so please don't get the wrong idea. I've been vastly more well-informed reading his posts on Twitter than I have with mainstream news sources that don't go into nearly as much detail, or connect the dots the way he does. In fact, Id go so far as to say he's the reason I have such a strong grasp of the situation at all.
Anyways, I've seen people complain about him on here without backing it up other than to go "oh, Seth; pshaw."
This thread isn't about him. He's not a reliable news source, on his own, for the purposes of this thread. If you want to discuss him specifically I'm sure people can PM you, we don't need the tangent in this thread.
I know we've been at this exact same place before, but Trump's attacks on our own intelligence agencies still amazes me in it's brashness.
Not just that, but sides with a Russian dictator against the intelligence agencies on the subject of THE RUSSIAN DICTATOR HIMSELF.
I mean, come on, America is not so perfect and has done some very bad things...
...Said by the person that is supposed to represent and lead America.
I completely forgot he said this. If this had been a democrat that said this the right and Fox News would still be talking about it
That's because what he actually said (in their memories) was "America is perfect (when lead by a Republican) and has done some very bad things (when lead by a Democrat)."
Please, someone PM me then. Because the last thread shat on him at the end, then we get the new one with the seemingly out of nowhere restriction, and there isn't an SE++ thread to have OT conversations in. Thanks, moving on!
When will all the haters and fools out there realize that having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. There always playing politics - bad for our country. I want to solve North Korea, Syria, Ukraine, terrorism, and Russia can greatly help!
I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???
At this point literally the only answer that makes sense is blackmail.
Trump lashes out and insults everyone even his own staff and allies for little to no reason. Putin is the only person he defers to everytime.
Trump also tends to talk about things when someone literally spoke to him about it that day, so it's not far-fetched to imagine that a Russian representative got to meet with him and say "AHEM" (given that his proximity to Russia at the moment is close and who knows how international travel works over in China).
Yeah he tends to call people liars or cowards or monsters the next day
That's the surprising thing to me. Usually when someone crosses him, like the russians just did again by saying they didn't talk at all about the election, he lashes out on twitter immediately.
He never does that with Russia. It's what people having been talking about with his behaviour for like 18+ months now. Russia seems to be literally the only thing he never turns on, even when they do something that might provoke him if anyone else had done it. It's probably the biggest tell that he's in their pocket in one way or another.
+24
Options
Johnny ChopsockyScootaloo! We have to cook!Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered Userregular
Posts
My admittedly non-professional theory is that the goal of the Russians was to influence the election and harangue the expected Clinton presidency. I don't think they expected Trump to actually win. Their operation has been an incredible, historic success far beyond what they expected. Putin and his cronies are probably very pleased.
https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-says-people-will-die-as-a-result-of-focus-on-russia-allegations/
What the actual fuck. This is something Trump said on Air Force 1.
If Clinton had won the result at this point might not have been much different for them - the White House wouldn't be openly Russophile, but they'd also be too busy dealing with a Congress waging war on the president to pay much attention to anything going on in Ukraine or Kazakhstan or what-have-you. The MAGAbots on social media would probably be at least as loud, too. If you have people doubting the legitimacy of the government, its policies, and the democratic process in general...
Granted, getting a White House and a Congress that are openly supportive of Putin probably falls under "we couldn't anticipate this because it's so implausible we wouldn't have thought of it," so who knows what the current plans are..
It's the old canard that anyone who angers Russia too much will guarantee a hot war with them. That's one of the reasons people voted for him, because he'd be BFF's with Putin.
He'll say something stupider at Mar-A-Lago real soon, I'm sure.
oh my god lord
Aaaaand I've just ruined Flashdance for myself forever. I'll see myself out.
It's probably a dumbass suggestion that if we investigate this Russia thing, then we cannot possibly investigate anything else. Like the terrorists that are hiding under your bed.
It's the sort of thing a terrible manager says because he's only capable of focusing on one thing at a time.
His good pal and confidante Vlad told him he didn't do it? Is Trump not supposed to trust the word of another duly elected President? /sarcasm(just in case it wasn't apparent)
Which to me seems implausibly nuanced for an off the cuff Trump remark.
Now onto more important things like ballooning the debt by 1.7 trillion dollars with a tax cut on the wealthy because the GOP is and has never been concerned with the national debt levels rising and getting rid of the ability for those not covered by the tax breaks to have health care. You know, the real issues that are destroying our country and threatening our democracy.
It's not like as a former spy Putin would be able to lie to someones face.
At this point literally the only answer that makes sense is blackmail.
Trump lashes out and insults everyone even his own staff and allies for little to no reason. Putin is the only person he defers to everytime.
He seems to see him as his superior.
Bullies are easily bullied themselves when a bigger/stronger/smarter/meaner one comes along.
Yeah he tends to call people liars or cowards or monsters the next day
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/359913-cia-director-stands-by-russian-interference-assessment
Twitter: Cokomon | dA: Cokomon | Tumblr: Cokomon-art | XBL / NNID / Steam: Cokomon
Not just that, but sides with a Russian dictator against the intelligence agencies on the subject of THE RUSSIAN DICTATOR HIMSELF.
I mean, come on, America is not so perfect and has done some very bad things...
...Said by the person that is supposed to represent and lead America.
Twitter: Cokomon | dA: Cokomon | Tumblr: Cokomon-art | XBL / NNID / Steam: Cokomon
FBI are federal law enforcement officers that answer to US prosecutors, are always armed when on duty and arrest charged federal criminals. I'd call them cops especially compared to their colleagues in intelligence like the CIA and NSA who do not enforce the law in any capacity.
That's the surprising thing to me. Usually when someone crosses him, like the russians just did again by saying they didn't talk at all about the election, he lashes out on twitter immediately.
"How do I know this isn't the start of a military coup? I want the Secret Service in here right now."
"Mr President, in the event of a military coup, what makes you think the Secret Service is gonna be on your side?"
I don't think it'll go that far (although the number of things in the last year that happened when I didn't think they'd happen gives me some pause for thought), but he's really not giving them any incentive to help him in any way.
Barack Obama?
I completely forgot he said this. If this had been a democrat that said this the right and Fox News would still be talking about it
Anyways, I've seen people complain about him on here without backing it up other than to go "oh, Seth; pshaw."
This thread isn't about him. He's not a reliable news source, on his own, for the purposes of this thread. If you want to discuss him specifically I'm sure people can PM you, we don't need the tangent in this thread.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Moving on.
Haters and fools!
You mean the country that Russia invaded?
He never does that with Russia. It's what people having been talking about with his behaviour for like 18+ months now. Russia seems to be literally the only thing he never turns on, even when they do something that might provoke him if anyone else had done it. It's probably the biggest tell that he's in their pocket in one way or another.
A country being forcibly dissolved and absorbed against their will into a larger attacking country is technically a solution.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
And Syria. Governed by the dictatorship Russia supports.