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[Russia/US investigation thread] - Mueller seeks to question Trump

So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
edited January 2018 in Debate and/or Discourse
This thread is for talking about:

The election interference and collusion investigation, both in the FBI and congress.
The firing of James Comey, and continuing fallout of it.
The special counsel, Robert Mueller and his investigation, et all.
Any further claims about wiretapping of Donald Trump.

Things we will not be talking about:

Impeachment, until further notice. So far this includes a lot of speculation with the investigation itself remaining unresolved, so we're leaving it off the table until a notable event happens.
The definition of treason/whether Trump et al can be charged with it. Off the table unless we see that charge on paper.
The media.

______________

DO NOT POST SETH ABRAMSON TWITTER THREADS IN HERE WITHOUT CORROBORATION FROM RELIABLE SOURCES.

Identify all twitter authors. Don't post from dubious sources or random accounts.


______________

Official prevention of cross contamination post.

Trump's foreign trip and other foreign policy issues: Foreign Policy Thread
Trump admin/family corruption and grift not related to Russia: Corruption/Grift/Ethics Violations in the Trump Administration
General Middle East goings on: The Middle East Thread
Trump immigration policy, Muslim ban and beyond: Immigration Policy Thread

Reminder: Watergate comparison/discussion is on topic here, but don't get too into the weeds on it.

So It Goes on
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Posts

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Repeated for emphasis:

    DO NOT POST SETH ABRAMSON TWITTER THREADS IN HERE WITHOUT CORROBORATION FROM RELIABLE SOURCES.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Thank you for your continued hard work on wrangling all these threads, SiG.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Repeated for emphasis:

    DO NOT POST SETH ABRAMSON TWITTER THREADS IN HERE WITHOUT CORROBORATION FROM RELIABLE SOURCES.

    I appreciate this one a lot. I keep getting my hopes up and then remembering the source.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    Who is Seth Abramson? I believe he is a reporter but I didn't know he was bad.

    I'm asking rather than googling because I doubt I will be the only one.

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Who is Seth Abramson? I believe he is a reporter but I didn't know he was bad.

    I'm asking rather than googling because I doubt I will be the only one.

    near as I can tell, he's a twitter guy who takes verified information and extrapolates to varying degrees of success. More often than not he's wrong though.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Who is Seth Abramson? I believe he is a reporter but I didn't know he was bad.

    I'm asking rather than googling because I doubt I will be the only one.

    He's very excitable and sensationalizes a lot. So he assembles a fair amount of reasonable information, adds in some innuendo and rumor and draws STUNNING CONCLUSIONS. He's not necessarily wrong, but he's not careful so leaps to conclusions quickly. He's a much shittier version of Josh Marshall, who is the person you should actually follow for all Russian collusion needs.

    For example, here's him today on ways in which Stephen Miller might be screwed.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Usually I do not derive enjoyment from the suffering or misery of others. Having said that, I keep thinking about all the various scumbags losing sleep over the weekend, with dark bags under thier eyes, pale and jittery and lacking appetite. I think these things and my heart is filled with joy.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    For all you guys last thread:

    bnkqOB1m.jpg

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    New thread, so let's aim for a current summary:

    James Comey, as head of the FBI, was investigating whether or not Russia interfered with the 2016 elections and if they did, did they have assistance from any Americans in doing so.

    He was then fired by Donald Trump, with the strong backing of Stephen Miller and Jared Kushner in particular.

    Jeff Sessions had recused himself after the first lie he told about his contact with Russian entities during the campaign, so public pressure mounted and forced Deputy Attorney General Ron Rosenstein to appoint a special counsel in the matter to investigate the firing of Comey and whether it constituted obstruction of justice as well as whatever crimes were underlying that obstruction of justice.

    Existing Charges

    1) Paul Manafort and Rick Gates, with a number of counts surrounding tax evasion and conspiracy against the United States (to evade taxes) centered on their dealings with pro-Russian political parties in the Ukraine. But also just in general.

    2) George Papadopoulos has pled guilty to lying to the FBI and is now acting as a cooperating witness. He repeatedly reached out to Russian interests during the campaign.

    Potential Avenues of Investigation

    1) Obstruction of Justice
    • A - By Donald Trump, in firing James Comey. Into any of a number of potential crimes (detailed below)
    • B - By Stephen Miller and Jared Kushner, in advising Trump to fire James Comey. Miller would have motive because he was Papadopoulos' boss in the campaign.
    • C - By Devin Nunes, in using his committee chairmanship to help cover up potential crimes committed by this White House

    This is the original purpose of the investigation centered around Comey's firing. However, it has seemingly spun off in all sorts of directions like...

    2) Collusion with the Russian government to help them interfere with the American election. We have numerous meetings and points of contact between the government and the campaign at this point. These have Sessions all tied into knots that are totally not perjury you guys. Many arranged by Papadopoulos but also the infamous Don. Jr. and Jared Kushner meet about "adoption" with a Russian lawyer in New York incident. We also have Kushner attempting to set up untraceable back channels with the Russian government, potential quid pro quos involving sanctions and a billion other avenues to investigate here.

    3) The plot to kidnap the Turkish dissident Fethullah Gülen from his home in Pennsylvania and deliver him to Turkish authorities in exchange for $15 million. This is centered around disgraced National Security Advisor Michael Flynn and might be the actual proximate cause of this whole mess. If Trump fired Comey to protect Flynn. Though Flynn could also have been involved with the Russian government. He was very busy. Flynn's son is also implicated and recent reports suggest that Mueller has enough to indict both of them, but is attempting to use Flynn's son as leverage in convincing Flynn Sr. to flip on higher ups (which means the president).

    4) The real financial goings on with the Trump organization. These have been ruled "off limits" by Trump himself because things are transparently wrong with them. The most obvious potential avenue is money laundering involving Russian nationals. The Trump Organization has been fined for similar violations in the past. Other obvious targets: Trump and Kushner's personal financial dealings which are almost definitely shady, fraudulent business practices, legal violations all over the place, etc.

    5) Petty (and grand) corruption. Some stuff is obvious, like Trump promoting his properties with public money or siphoning money budgeted to protect him to his golf courses or hotels. But there are a ton of other avenues Mueller could pursue.

    6) Whatever the fuck Felix Sater was involved with. Longtime Trump associate, longtime gangster, sometime FBI informant, international man of mystery/idiocy. Could literally be anything from legitimate business to black market weapons dealing.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    edited November 2017
    EB I think the first part isn't accurate. Comey was investigating the Flynn firing which had possible ties to Russia, which is what prompted Trump to ask him in private if he could "let this one go". Comey said no, documented everything, and then was fired shortly after.

    Roz on
  • Kristmas KthulhuKristmas Kthulhu Currently Kultist Kthulhu Registered User regular
    There's so much awful shit that's happened this year, I'd totally forgotten about some of the quainter stuff like Kushner attempting to backchannel with Russia.

  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    There's so much awful shit that's happened this year, I'd totally forgotten about some of the quainter stuff like Kushner attempting to backchannel with Russia.

    You know how Nixon got "All the President's Men" to dramatize his downfall?

    With this admin we are going to need Peter Jackson. Director's cut Peter Jackson.

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »
    There's so much awful shit that's happened this year, I'd totally forgotten about some of the quainter stuff like Kushner attempting to backchannel with Russia.

    You know how Nixon got "All the President's Men" to dramatize his downfall?

    With this admin we are going to need Peter Jackson. Director's cut Peter Jackson.

    No, the Coen's are really the only people I trust to nail the "burn after Reading" vibe this whole thing has.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    There's so much awful shit that's happened this year, I'd totally forgotten about some of the quainter stuff like Kushner attempting to backchannel with Russia.

    You know how Nixon got "All the President's Men" to dramatize his downfall?

    With this admin we are going to need Peter Jackson. Director's cut Peter Jackson.

    No, the Coen's are really the only people I trust to nail the "burn after Reading" vibe this whole thing has.

    We definitely need JK Simmons to say "Hold on, run that by me again"

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    CIA Superior: What did we learn, Palmer?
    CIA Officer: I don't know, sir.
    CIA Superior: I don't fuckin' know either. I guess we learned not to do it again.
    CIA Officer: Yes, sir.
    CIA Superior: I'm fucked if I know what we did.
    CIA Officer: Yes, sir, it's, uh, hard to say
    CIA Superior: Jesus Fucking Christ.

  • LabelLabel Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    For some reason, I feel like that summary is surely leaving something out. Fuck if I can remember anything though. Criminy.

    I think someday after this is all over I'm gunna wanna find a really good summary, sit down, and just try to comprehend it all.

    Label on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Re: The thread title... did Flynn flip? I've had a busy week I'm not super caught up. I don't see anything specific to that on WaPo.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Re: The thread title... did Flynn flip? I've had a busy week I'm not super caught up. I don't see anything specific to that on WaPo.

    He and his wife are very worried about their sons legal troubles and he's likely facing the kind of charges that even bringing down the president won't completely zero out. It's likely only a matter of time.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Re: The thread title... did Flynn flip? I've had a busy week I'm not super caught up. I don't see anything specific to that on WaPo.

    A better question is - does Trump and co. think he's already flipped? Whether he actually did or not is incidental.

  • LabelLabel Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Oh hey look it's Devin Nunes, somehow getting connected to Flynn and Turkey.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/devin-nunes-michael-flynn-turkey-russia-2017-11
    Republican Rep. Devin Nunes, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, attended a breakfast meeting in January that Michael Flynn, then the incoming national security adviser, and Mevlut Cavusoglu, the Turkish foreign minister, also attended.

    The breakfast event, held on Wednesday, January 18, was closed to the press, and it is still unclear what exactly was discussed.

    The Washington correspondent for the Turkish newspaper Daily Sabah, which tends to be pro-government, reported at the time that an aide to Cavusoglu said he "was the only foreign leader at the breakfast and the topics on the US-Turkish agenda were discussed by the attendees."

    The invitation, obtained by the newspaper, said the breakfast would "be a small event for about 50-60 guests" and that the incoming White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus, "might join the meeting," Daily Sabah reported.

    Don't think there's any allegations on Nunes yet. Wonder how long that will take.

    Label on
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Label wrote: »
    Don't think there's any allegations on Nunes yet. Wonder how long that will take.

    Knowing Mueller it's a matter of time. Nunes must be sweating fierce.

  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Guys remember when trump jr ditched his secret service for like a week. I'm still waiting for the obvious mueller evidence from that giant telegraph

    616610-1.png
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Wonder if Nunes will get caught up in enough shit that he'll have to recuse himself for real.

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    Pack it up everybody, Trump knows Putin didn't meddle in our elections because Putin told him so again (WaPo link)
    HANOI — President Trump said Saturday that Russian President Vladimir Putin again denied his nation tampered in the U.S. presidential election last year, during brief conversations on the sidelines of an international summit.

    Trump told reporters that he and Putin had more than one informal discussion after crossing paths at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum in Danang, Vietnam, before Trump flew to Hanoi for a bilateral meeting Sunday with Vietnamese leaders.

    “He said he didn't meddle,” Trump said. “I asked him again. You can only ask so many times … He said he absolutely did not meddle in our election. He did not do what they are saying he did.”

    "There was no collusion," Trump said on the plane. "Everybody knows there was no collusion." The president added that he is determined to enlist Moscow's help to end the civil war in Syria and to ramp up pressure on North Korea over its nuclear weapons program.

    He said the investigation into his campaign's ties with Russia could hurt those efforts. "I think it’s a shame that something like that could destroy a very important potential relationship between 2 countries that are really important countries," Trump said.

    Trump also cast blame on President Obama and Clinton, who famously attempted a "reset" of U.S. relations with Russia in Obama's first term. Trump referred to Clinton's "stupid reset button," in which she presented Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov with an oversized "reset button" that erroneously used the Russian word for "overcharged" instead of "reset."

    "Hillary tried it, she failed, nobody mentions it," Trump said. "She hit that reset button, it was a joke. But she tried and she failed." Trump said Obama had bad chemistry with Putin and Clinton was "in way over her head.

    Trump did not answer when asked during the Air Force One flight to Hanoi whether he believed Putin's denial of the tampering.

    “Every time he sees me, he says, 'I didn't do that,'" Trump said, “but I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it … I think he is very insulted by it, which is not a good thing for our country.”

    The best and brightest president.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-6732-9515-9697
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "Of course you won fair and square, Donald. You are best President for America. You know everything I tell you is truth, yes?"

  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/politics/joseph-mifsud-trump-russia-investigation/index.html
    Joseph Mifsud, the Maltese academic suspected of being a link between the Trump campaign and Russian officials, was once a regular on the foreign policy circuit, attending conferences the world over.
    Now, after being identified as a key figure in the US special counsel investigation into Russian influence over the 2016 US presidential election, Mifsud has gone to ground.
    Last Thursday he disappeared from the private university in Rome where he teaches. Repeated attempts to reach him since have been unsuccessful, though he appears to have read some messages from CNN.

    I wonder who he's hiding from?

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/politics/joseph-mifsud-trump-russia-investigation/index.html
    Joseph Mifsud, the Maltese academic suspected of being a link between the Trump campaign and Russian officials, was once a regular on the foreign policy circuit, attending conferences the world over.
    Now, after being identified as a key figure in the US special counsel investigation into Russian influence over the 2016 US presidential election, Mifsud has gone to ground.
    Last Thursday he disappeared from the private university in Rome where he teaches. Repeated attempts to reach him since have been unsuccessful, though he appears to have read some messages from CNN.

    I wonder who he's hiding from?

    If he’s lucky, he’s in hiding. You never know with the Russians. They are absolutely not above assassination.

  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    Pack it up everybody, Trump knows Putin didn't meddle in our elections because Putin told him so again (WaPo link)
    HANOI — President Trump said Saturday that Russian President Vladimir Putin again denied his nation tampered in the U.S. presidential election last year, during brief conversations on the sidelines of an international summit.

    Trump told reporters that he and Putin had more than one informal discussion after crossing paths at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum in Danang, Vietnam, before Trump flew to Hanoi for a bilateral meeting Sunday with Vietnamese leaders.

    “He said he didn't meddle,” Trump said. “I asked him again. You can only ask so many times … He said he absolutely did not meddle in our election. He did not do what they are saying he did.”

    "There was no collusion," Trump said on the plane. "Everybody knows there was no collusion." The president added that he is determined to enlist Moscow's help to end the civil war in Syria and to ramp up pressure on North Korea over its nuclear weapons program.

    He said the investigation into his campaign's ties with Russia could hurt those efforts. "I think it’s a shame that something like that could destroy a very important potential relationship between 2 countries that are really important countries," Trump said.

    Trump also cast blame on President Obama and Clinton, who famously attempted a "reset" of U.S. relations with Russia in Obama's first term. Trump referred to Clinton's "stupid reset button," in which she presented Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov with an oversized "reset button" that erroneously used the Russian word for "overcharged" instead of "reset."

    "Hillary tried it, she failed, nobody mentions it," Trump said. "She hit that reset button, it was a joke. But she tried and she failed." Trump said Obama had bad chemistry with Putin and Clinton was "in way over her head.

    Trump did not answer when asked during the Air Force One flight to Hanoi whether he believed Putin's denial of the tampering.

    “Every time he sees me, he says, 'I didn't do that,'" Trump said, “but I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it … I think he is very insulted by it, which is not a good thing for our country.”

    The best and brightest president.

    Okay, but why didn’t he ask Putin whether he colluded with Clinton over uranium? Total missed opportunity!

    ACsTqqK.jpg
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    If you ask someone if they hacked your elections, they have to tell you the truth. It's in the constitution.

    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    "And that's when I looked Mr. Comey in the eye and I asked him are you a cop? Because you totally have to tell me if you are a cop. And he said no! And that is why I fired him"

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    RedTide wrote: »
    "And that's when I looked Mr. Comey in the eye and I asked him are you a cop? Because you totally have to tell me if you are a cop. And he said no! And that is why I fired him"

    Now technically... I don't think the FBI are cops at all? In the technical sense of what powers they have.

    Polaritie on
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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    Pack it up everybody, Trump knows Putin didn't meddle in our elections because Putin told him so again (WaPo link)
    HANOI — President Trump said Saturday that Russian President Vladimir Putin again denied his nation tampered in the U.S. presidential election last year, during brief conversations on the sidelines of an international summit.

    Trump told reporters that he and Putin had more than one informal discussion after crossing paths at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum in Danang, Vietnam, before Trump flew to Hanoi for a bilateral meeting Sunday with Vietnamese leaders.

    “He said he didn't meddle,” Trump said. “I asked him again. You can only ask so many times … He said he absolutely did not meddle in our election. He did not do what they are saying he did.”

    "There was no collusion," Trump said on the plane. "Everybody knows there was no collusion." The president added that he is determined to enlist Moscow's help to end the civil war in Syria and to ramp up pressure on North Korea over its nuclear weapons program.

    He said the investigation into his campaign's ties with Russia could hurt those efforts. "I think it’s a shame that something like that could destroy a very important potential relationship between 2 countries that are really important countries," Trump said.

    Trump also cast blame on President Obama and Clinton, who famously attempted a "reset" of U.S. relations with Russia in Obama's first term. Trump referred to Clinton's "stupid reset button," in which she presented Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov with an oversized "reset button" that erroneously used the Russian word for "overcharged" instead of "reset."

    "Hillary tried it, she failed, nobody mentions it," Trump said. "She hit that reset button, it was a joke. But she tried and she failed." Trump said Obama had bad chemistry with Putin and Clinton was "in way over her head.

    Trump did not answer when asked during the Air Force One flight to Hanoi whether he believed Putin's denial of the tampering.

    “Every time he sees me, he says, 'I didn't do that,'" Trump said, “but I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it … I think he is very insulted by it, which is not a good thing for our country.”

    The best and brightest president.

    This is incredibly pathetic.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    He also said the intelligence community is a bunch of political hacks and untrustworthy.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Apparently the official statement from Russia is that Trump and Putin did not discuss the election at all.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Apparently the official statement from Russia is that Trump and Putin did not discuss the election at all.

    That's obviously a lie. Trump would want to bitch about his inauguration numbers.

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/politics/joseph-mifsud-trump-russia-investigation/index.html
    Joseph Mifsud, the Maltese academic suspected of being a link between the Trump campaign and Russian officials, was once a regular on the foreign policy circuit, attending conferences the world over.
    Now, after being identified as a key figure in the US special counsel investigation into Russian influence over the 2016 US presidential election, Mifsud has gone to ground.
    Last Thursday he disappeared from the private university in Rome where he teaches. Repeated attempts to reach him since have been unsuccessful, though he appears to have read some messages from CNN.

    I wonder who he's hiding from?

    If he’s lucky, he’s in hiding. You never know with the Russians. They are absolutely not above assassination.

    maybe Mueller has him in protective custody

    LxX6eco.jpg
    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Apparently the official statement from Russia is that Trump and Putin did not discuss the election at all.

    You know, in kind of a twisted way, I envy the amount of fun the Russians must be having with this.

    "Comrade, Damp American President has said he spoke with Shirtless Leader."

    "Pfffft ok, ok hahaha good now be releasing statement that Shirtless Leader did not speak with him ahaha."

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Apparently the official statement from Russia is that Trump and Putin did not discuss the election at all.
    But Trump said they did.
    So now we have Trumps own word that Putin is a liar, right?
    Either that or Trump lied about it.

    Someone, please press them on this.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    I don’t understand why Trump is back to completely denying Russian influence despite the increasing agreement between politicians, intelligence community, and the media that is totally happened to varying degrees???

    Mueller must have freaked him out recently, so he's gas lighting like he's never gaslit before.

This discussion has been closed.