Either ignore it or counter with (clinically accurate but amusing) pro-butt posters. I think that would be hilarious. It sounds like you're unlikely to get intervention from the authorities.
Either ignore it or counter with (clinically accurate but amusing) pro-butt posters. I think that would be hilarious. It sounds like you're unlikely to get intervention from the authorities.
There are a few ways to run a counter-poster campaign.
Sarcasm: A poster with "POOP [emoji] IS ICKY" and "This important message brought to you by the Friends of [obnoxious original group]"
Turnabout: A poster with "An average person may carry anywhere from 5 to 20 pounds of feces in their large intestine at any given time." Then, depending how on the nose you want to be/can get away with, either "The [obnoxious group] are clearly well above average" or "Some people are always full of shit" or something along those lines.
Helpful: Basic information about best practices for butt stuff
Also, there's a lot more than the mechanics and sti/pregnancy. There's so much about consent culture that is barely taught at all.
I think this is a very important topic for your audience. Whether hands, objects, mouths, genitals or butts are involved, consent is needed. As is education of being aware of when consent is not possible or given is also needed. Safe sex measures and birth control as well. I would not let trolls detract you from developing your presentation and materials of that. You could underline that with response posters under theirs saying "wherever you put it, make sure it's welcome, and use protection" or somesuch.
Edit: I don't like the way that reads now that I re-read it, sounds very phallo-centric. I don't got a better slogan though.
Both sarcasm and turnabout responses are attacks rather than factual information and you should avoid them both. Proving trolls right is worse than feeding them, and it puts you in violation of the rules the Dean has set out.
Trying to argue this from a safety angle is not going to get you far because, as they are Technically Correct, you'll have to argue that facts are dangerous and also argue that more facts are a bad idea, so you shouldn't have to try and communicate them.
Campus culture is yours. Stop trying to get Authority to impose your preferred culture upon the student body, step up yourself, and do something factual to counter the message you don't like.
Campus culture is yours. Stop trying to get Authority to impose your preferred culture upon the student body, step up yourself, and do something factual to counter the message you don't like.
But you guys never like it when students "do something" without the campus authorities getting involved, because then it looks like the PC police bullying conservative students.
If you have two posters up, one saying "Gay sex is icky and dangerous!" and the other saying "Gay sex is fantastic and safe!" it *seems* equal but in fact is very oppressive to gay people. Imagine if people were going around your campus putting up posters, some saying "spool32 is one heckuva guy!" and others saying "spool32 is a garbage person and no-one should talk to him!" You'd feel pretty fucking shitty if you are *honest* with yourself. Bullied people don't tend to feel OK if they have equal numbers of friends to bullies.
Campus culture is yours. Stop trying to get Authority to impose your preferred culture upon the student body, step up yourself, and do something factual to counter the message you don't like.
But you guys never like it when students "do something" without the campus authorities getting involved, because then it looks like the PC police bullying conservative students.
If you have two posters up, one saying "Gay sex is icky and dangerous!" and the other saying "Gay sex is fantastic and safe!" it *seems* equal but in fact is very oppressive to gay people. Imagine if people were going around your campus putting up posters, some saying "spool32 is one heckuva guy!" and others saying "spool32 is a garbage person and no-one should talk to him!" You'd feel pretty fucking shitty if you are *honest* with yourself. Bullied people don't tend to feel OK if they have equal numbers of friends to bullies.
I can't really answer all this within the scope of H/A, but a couple of things:
OP is not describing a situation in which the messaging is equal. An environment where the predominant or even equivalent message is one of facts that tend to cast anal sex in a bad light is not what we've been described... instead it's one troll message in a group of unknown numbers of other sex-positive information vectors. So I feel pretty comfortable suggesting that one set of facts presented in a way that seems trollish, amongst a large group of other facts that are not, is not the same thing as a pro/anti-spool opinion campaign.
If we're all honest here, this is a bit of a fine line to walk anyway because there are legitimate risks, most particularly exposure to blood, that ought to be recognized and mitigated (more lube!) because they can be dangerous.
I'd love to engage with the rest but this ain't the right thread for it.
if you decide it's actually necessary to engage with administration about this further, here's how I would do it
1) Get together with some of the presenters and so on about the relevant subjects and develop an argument about how/why misinformation like this is harmful; if administration want to engage on a 'just the facts' basis, you need to have better facts than the other side. Ideally these presenters are adult professionals, as opposed to other students.
2) If these conservative people are organized enough to actually have a recognized student group, invite them to participate in whatever forum/Q&A/etc sort of event you have going on. If they do show up it's easy to make them look like fools/bigots, and if they don't (they won't) it makes easy fodder in future meetings with administration
(combine the results of #1 and 2 into a short release packet that you can send to campus and local media)
3) Just take down the posters where you see them. Arguments about fair play, campus censorship, etc aside we all know the merits of this kind of thing, and intimidation of people for their sexual orientation isn't something that you have to stand for.
Basically, conservative groups like this want to engage at the most superficial level, because their message is only superficial. That makes them easy to ignore, but if you don't want to do that the solution is to force them to engage more substantively. This approach worked pretty well at shutting them down when I was an undergrad.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
edited November 2017
You could always do a "no butts? I guess you aren't down with mouths either" and maybe include a discussion of coliform bacteria, discussing why protection is necessary if you aren't in a committed, long-term relationship regardless of your style of sex. (and hey, you could even include a reminder of why you always wash your hands after going to the bathroom even if you're "only" peeing)
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
You could always do a "no butts? I guess you aren't down with mouths either" and maybe include a discussion of coliform bacteria, discussing why protection is necessary if you aren't in a committed, long-term relationship regardless of your style of sex. (and hey, you could even include a reminder of why you always wash your hands after going to the bathroom even if you're "only" peeing)
As long as you don't use an air dryer after washing your hands. When it comes to spreading pathogens, those things are literally the worst.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Note that many universities frown mightily at covering up or tearing down others' posters.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
I am still not sure what the reasoning of this troll group is? "Ewww butts hurr hurr hurr" or something far more insidious? Because I assure you, there is enough straight porn with anal sex that these trolls have watched. If it is as infantile as it sounds, then their contribution to Health Week is just utterly useless. Do you have any idea where they are coming from? Do they take other events seriously? If they are anti-gay then that is a whole other can of worms and these posters should be added to whatever file there is on them.
I feel like taking their "concern" about anal seriously and provide information about proper hygiene in a panel or brochure. I would not bother with posters or witty stickers, as that could be interpreted as you playing along in their game.
I really think it is just being trollish. The Dean asks the student societies to contribute in some way to health week, and they were looking for a way to do it that technically met the requirements but actually just annoyed people and created a hostile environment. I don't really beleive they care one way or another about the issue, just about being hostile and entitled. But that's just my take.
It's hard when people with pivilige want to shut down and marginalize your voice.
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
...did you ever reach out to a faculty member to actually take some agency on this?
Also privilege isn't a catch-all term to use when people disagree with you. The fact these kids are being jackasses may or may not be impacted by their social advantages, but generally is more due to them just being terrible people with poor socialization.
Thank you! I did - I met with someone in the English dept who is an Associate Professor and also Director of Graduate Studies. She teaches a couple of classes that seemed releavant, but I was really disapointed when I met her. We talked it over, and she was sympathetic, but just didn't really seem to be fired up about it. She seemed more interested in the idea that women feel obliged to have anal sex with men because of cultural messaging.
I asked her whether she would be willing to make a complaint, but she said she didn't think it was a big deal and didn't really want to dignify it. I don't really know what to do.
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
edited November 2017
At this stage you may want to consider if this is the hill you want to die on. Political capital is a thing, you may be fired up about this wrong (and that's a good thing), but you have very little to lose here and less power to achieve your goals with it. At the same time, folks like that professor have a lot of power, but it requires using political capital to accomplish her goals. If she doesn't think spending her clout to change this contest with the Dean of Students is a viable option, you might consider why that is. Yes, the students are being amoral, insideous jerks, but will they stop being jerks if you take that action to get rid of them? Is there an angle you can be taking instead that will accomplish more good without dying on a rather ineffective hill?
For example, an Associate Professor still has to go before the promotion an tenure committee at some point in the future for her one and only attempt at that institution to gain full Professor status. If the Dean of Students is on that committee, and he likely is, her pressing him over what might be considered a minor incident of bad behavior will likely lower her chances of gaining tenure. From her perspective she has to think if this infraction is significant enough to take a stand on with that risk, and it seems like she didn't see it as such (which, honestly, is fair. If this were something that would go before my school's Conduct Board I would be more likely to say "push harder" but it sounds pretty minor as far as the 'bad people will continue to be bad people, and have followed just enough rules to get away with it for now' sort of deal).
You have a lot of options now, but most of them come down to one of four varieties:
Keep seeking other professors* that would be willing to support your cause. (Issues: Takes effort, only way the poster is likely to be removed, no guarentee someone in power will support you).
Take action to counter the students yourself through positive messaging. (Issues: Takes even more effort, likely the best way to make actual change in perspective among onlookers, likely opening other students to retaliate with worse posters to drown out your message).
Take action directly against the offending students in some fashion (Issues: likely will get you in an academic disciplinary action and make your perspective seem like the angry, violent, bad one, destroying your moral high ground, but potentially spooking off the students. This is the worst option.)
Move on and devote your energies to something you have more agency and control over.
I'd suggest the second one (get your message out in a positive way) or the last one (move on and focus on better reform issues) at this stage.
*full professors, as once you achieve the status you can't easily lose it.
Thanks, that's helpful. I didn't really understand the politics of her position like that. At this point its not really the poster - that's long gone, its really about the culture of this being ok. They do this stuff all the time. Never anything really over the line, but just a constant drip of stupid stuff that undermines everything. I dont even know really how to describe it right.
She seemed more interested in the idea that women feel obliged to have anal sex with men because of cultural messaging.
So is that the intended message of the posters as best you can tell? Rather than some anti-LGBT thing about how gay sex=butt sex=icky? Which is what people here seem to have initially took it as?
This whole thing just seems so silly.
But since it is, make a poster stating factual information about the bacterial loads of various orifices, and the importance of peeing after sex to decrease the chance of a UTI. And have R. Kelly on the poster.
I don't think so. I think the intended messsage was to shame people who have anal, but I don't really know. She just wanted to take the conversation in a different direction.
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ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
Thanks, that's helpful. I didn't really understand the politics of her position like that. At this point its not really the poster - that's long gone, its really about the culture of this being ok. They do this stuff all the time. Never anything really over the line, but just a constant drip of stupid stuff that undermines everything. I dont even know really how to describe it right.
For everything you do in this life, and it does not matter if it is good or bad, there are at least two people standing behind you waiting to tear it all down. Most of them won't even give you the courtesy of finishing before they start.
Thanks, that's helpful. I didn't really understand the politics of her position like that. At this point its not really the poster - that's long gone, its really about the culture of this being ok. They do this stuff all the time. Never anything really over the line, but just a constant drip of stupid stuff that undermines everything. I dont even know really how to describe it right.
For everything you do in this life, and it does not matter if it is good or bad, there are at least two people standing behind you waiting to tear it all down. Most of them won't even give you the courtesy of finishing before they start.
More like one person waiting to tear it down, and one waiting to give you unwarranted criticism. You can't stop either, but the critic at least will leave your work standing and typically doesn't want it torn down.
Learn to (nominally) ally with your critics, lest the destroyers gain ground.
I feel so glum about all of this. It's not really this issue on its own, just the wole political situation in general. Its really changed the way I think about the people around me. Its made me super cautious even dating. I hate it.
Its bigger than that though, with all the recent stuff in the news, I just really have lost faith that there are any really good men out there.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Okay, this thread has come to a point where it is no longer really asking for advice per se, and this part of the forum (Help/Advice) can't be used as a support group for this sort of situation. There are some threads in SE that are perfect for this kind of discussion including a QUILTBAG thread with pretty solid participation, and things like safe sex definitely end up getting talked about there sometimes too. If you'd like to commiserate with other users on these topics, that's definitely the best place to do it... possibly a few others if you look down the first couple pages.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Posts
There are a few ways to run a counter-poster campaign.
Sarcasm: A poster with "POOP [emoji] IS ICKY" and "This important message brought to you by the Friends of [obnoxious original group]"
Turnabout: A poster with "An average person may carry anywhere from 5 to 20 pounds of feces in their large intestine at any given time." Then, depending how on the nose you want to be/can get away with, either "The [obnoxious group] are clearly well above average" or "Some people are always full of shit" or something along those lines.
Helpful: Basic information about best practices for butt stuff
I think this is a very important topic for your audience. Whether hands, objects, mouths, genitals or butts are involved, consent is needed. As is education of being aware of when consent is not possible or given is also needed. Safe sex measures and birth control as well. I would not let trolls detract you from developing your presentation and materials of that. You could underline that with response posters under theirs saying "wherever you put it, make sure it's welcome, and use protection" or somesuch.
Edit: I don't like the way that reads now that I re-read it, sounds very phallo-centric. I don't got a better slogan though.
Trying to argue this from a safety angle is not going to get you far because, as they are Technically Correct, you'll have to argue that facts are dangerous and also argue that more facts are a bad idea, so you shouldn't have to try and communicate them.
Campus culture is yours. Stop trying to get Authority to impose your preferred culture upon the student body, step up yourself, and do something factual to counter the message you don't like.
But you guys never like it when students "do something" without the campus authorities getting involved, because then it looks like the PC police bullying conservative students.
If you have two posters up, one saying "Gay sex is icky and dangerous!" and the other saying "Gay sex is fantastic and safe!" it *seems* equal but in fact is very oppressive to gay people. Imagine if people were going around your campus putting up posters, some saying "spool32 is one heckuva guy!" and others saying "spool32 is a garbage person and no-one should talk to him!" You'd feel pretty fucking shitty if you are *honest* with yourself. Bullied people don't tend to feel OK if they have equal numbers of friends to bullies.
I can't really answer all this within the scope of H/A, but a couple of things:
OP is not describing a situation in which the messaging is equal. An environment where the predominant or even equivalent message is one of facts that tend to cast anal sex in a bad light is not what we've been described... instead it's one troll message in a group of unknown numbers of other sex-positive information vectors. So I feel pretty comfortable suggesting that one set of facts presented in a way that seems trollish, amongst a large group of other facts that are not, is not the same thing as a pro/anti-spool opinion campaign.
If we're all honest here, this is a bit of a fine line to walk anyway because there are legitimate risks, most particularly exposure to blood, that ought to be recognized and mitigated (more lube!) because they can be dangerous.
I'd love to engage with the rest but this ain't the right thread for it.
1) Get together with some of the presenters and so on about the relevant subjects and develop an argument about how/why misinformation like this is harmful; if administration want to engage on a 'just the facts' basis, you need to have better facts than the other side. Ideally these presenters are adult professionals, as opposed to other students.
2) If these conservative people are organized enough to actually have a recognized student group, invite them to participate in whatever forum/Q&A/etc sort of event you have going on. If they do show up it's easy to make them look like fools/bigots, and if they don't (they won't) it makes easy fodder in future meetings with administration
(combine the results of #1 and 2 into a short release packet that you can send to campus and local media)
3) Just take down the posters where you see them. Arguments about fair play, campus censorship, etc aside we all know the merits of this kind of thing, and intimidation of people for their sexual orientation isn't something that you have to stand for.
Basically, conservative groups like this want to engage at the most superficial level, because their message is only superficial. That makes them easy to ignore, but if you don't want to do that the solution is to force them to engage more substantively. This approach worked pretty well at shutting them down when I was an undergrad.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
As long as you don't use an air dryer after washing your hands. When it comes to spreading pathogens, those things are literally the worst.
I feel like taking their "concern" about anal seriously and provide information about proper hygiene in a panel or brochure. I would not bother with posters or witty stickers, as that could be interpreted as you playing along in their game.
Also privilege isn't a catch-all term to use when people disagree with you. The fact these kids are being jackasses may or may not be impacted by their social advantages, but generally is more due to them just being terrible people with poor socialization.
I asked her whether she would be willing to make a complaint, but she said she didn't think it was a big deal and didn't really want to dignify it. I don't really know what to do.
For example, an Associate Professor still has to go before the promotion an tenure committee at some point in the future for her one and only attempt at that institution to gain full Professor status. If the Dean of Students is on that committee, and he likely is, her pressing him over what might be considered a minor incident of bad behavior will likely lower her chances of gaining tenure. From her perspective she has to think if this infraction is significant enough to take a stand on with that risk, and it seems like she didn't see it as such (which, honestly, is fair. If this were something that would go before my school's Conduct Board I would be more likely to say "push harder" but it sounds pretty minor as far as the 'bad people will continue to be bad people, and have followed just enough rules to get away with it for now' sort of deal).
You have a lot of options now, but most of them come down to one of four varieties:
I'd suggest the second one (get your message out in a positive way) or the last one (move on and focus on better reform issues) at this stage.
*full professors, as once you achieve the status you can't easily lose it.
So is that the intended message of the posters as best you can tell? Rather than some anti-LGBT thing about how gay sex=butt sex=icky? Which is what people here seem to have initially took it as?
This whole thing just seems so silly.
But since it is, make a poster stating factual information about the bacterial loads of various orifices, and the importance of peeing after sex to decrease the chance of a UTI. And have R. Kelly on the poster.
For everything you do in this life, and it does not matter if it is good or bad, there are at least two people standing behind you waiting to tear it all down. Most of them won't even give you the courtesy of finishing before they start.
Shogun Streams Vidya
More like one person waiting to tear it down, and one waiting to give you unwarranted criticism. You can't stop either, but the critic at least will leave your work standing and typically doesn't want it torn down.
Learn to (nominally) ally with your critics, lest the destroyers gain ground.