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[D&D 5E] Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

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Posts

  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    I am disappointed in your party. Is this on roll20, or can you punish them IRL by taking away their snacks?

    Feed their snacks to the dog/cat in front of them while reading it was the price of their failure or whatever theatrical Dm stuff you come up with

  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    I am disappointed in your party. Is this on roll20, or can you punish them IRL by taking away their snacks?

    Why would I want to punish my Healing Word bot or my biographer? But really, they're new to tabletop and generally good guys. Also it's a roll20 game and finding people who aren't mouth-breathers is hard enough, I'd rather not make them uncomfortable.

  • jammujammu Halfling Barbarian (not actual size) Registered User regular
    edited May 6
    Our group is trying 5th edition for our summer campaign. I originally planned to do a Dwarf Bard, but rest of our group rolled (literally with dice) a Dwarf Bard (Entertainer), a Human Rogue (hermit) and a Dwarf Paladin (sage) .

    Based on the heavy groans by our GM, I decided to make a second frontliner:

    a Halfing Barbarian:
    Beorn the Northpaw
    STR 13, DEX 16, CON 16, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 10
    AC 16/18
    HP 15
    
    Carrying a Rapier, Shield and a Short bow.
    Skills: Athletics, Perception, Stealth & Survival
    
    Outlander background (Clan member)
    Shirtless hunter from the wastes of Vaasa. He wears a cloak made out polar bears right arm proudly on his shoulder.
    Planning to take Bear totem on 3rd level.
    
    I'm not familiar 5th edition. Would this build work?

    jammu on
    Ww8FAMg.jpg
  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    edited May 6
    jammu wrote: »
    Our group is trying 5th edition for our summer campaign. I originally planned to do a Dwarf Bard, but rest of our group rolled (literally with dice) a Dwarf Bard (Entertainer), a Human Rogue (hermit) and a Dwarf Paladin (sage) .

    Based on the heavy groans by our GM, I decided to make a second frontliner:

    a Halfing Barbarian:
    Beorn the Northpaw
    STR 13, DEX 16, CON 16, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 10
    AC 16/18
    HP 15
    
    Carrying a Rapier, Shield and a Short bow.
    Skills: Athletics, Perception, Stealth & Survival
    
    Outlander background (Clan member)
    Shirtless hunter from the wastes of Vaasa. He wears a cloak made out polar bears right arm proudly on his shoulder.
    Planning to take Bear totem on 3rd level.
    
    I'm not familiar 5th edition. Would this build work?

    Dex barbs are legit. Ignore most of your class features, ragetank, maybe multicast rogue.

    Powerpuppies on
    sig.gif
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Yes BUUUUT. Barbarians only get their bonus damage and reckless attack ability on strength attacks

    So you're going to want to dual wield Handaxes with a decent strength or something similar. Longsword/Warhammer/Battleaxe wielded 2 handed is fine as well.

    Barbarians have tonnes of HP and a moderate AC is all you're going to need so dropping AC isn't as big a deal when dumping reflex. Additionally you're going to get advantage on the majority of dex saves so this is another reason you can dump dex.

    I would put stats at

    14,14,16,8,13,10 after adjustments

    wbBv3fj.png
  • doomybeardoomybear Hi People Registered User regular
    well, if you wanted to keep Dex and be a tankier barbarian at the expense of your own damage output, you could go Wolf instead of Bear totem at level 3, which would let your allies gain advantage on melee attacks against foes within five feet of you. This might not be so great with a smaller-ish party of 4, though, since the party would be much more fragile. If the rogue or paladin is dropped or controlled - you won't be able to contribute as much to the fight by yourself.

    what a happy day it is
  • KadokenKadoken I'm an adult Registered User regular
    SKT, found something I could get behind, royal murder mystery!

    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
  • jammujammu Halfling Barbarian (not actual size) Registered User regular
    Good to hear that Dexbarians work.
    I was considering wolf totem too, but wolfpaw isn't big enough for cloak. hmm... Maybe a wolfpaw as small sized loincloth?

    Ww8FAMg.jpg
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited May 7
    Yes, sure will.
    jammu wrote: »
    Good to hear that Dexbarians work.
    I was considering wolf totem too, but wolfpaw isn't big enough for cloak. hmm... Maybe a wolfpaw as small sized loincloth?

    *adjusts glasses* well, there are dire wolves...

    Aldo on
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    My group just hit fifth level. Now I have to decide what to take for it. Should it be:

    - Fourth level Fighter, Charisma ASI.
    - Fourth level Fighter, Dual Weapon Mastery.
    - Second level Warlock for Invocations.

    I'm already doing great damage, but an ASI could help me hit more often and Dual Weapon Mastery could let me hit even harder. Invocations would be fun and give me more to do.

    Friend Code: 1590-5696-7916
    Friend Safari Type: Rock
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    jammu wrote: »
    Good to hear that Dexbarians work.
    I was considering wolf totem too, but wolfpaw isn't big enough for cloak. hmm... Maybe a wolfpaw as small sized loincloth?

    Maybe he'd have to use more of the wolf pelt than just one limb?
    A nice furry wolf-ass cloak, with the tail as a scarf?

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited May 6
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    My group just hit fifth level. Now I have to decide what to take for it. Should it be:

    - Fourth level Fighter, Charisma ASI.
    - Fourth level Fighter, Dual Weapon Mastery.
    - Second level Warlock for Invocations.

    I'm already doing great damage, but an ASI could help me hit more often and Dual Weapon Mastery could let me hit even harder. Invocations would be fun and give me more to do.

    Invocations for sure. fun character defining toys are just the bees knees, and the way the invocations pan out your second level ones are usually more fun, and character diversifying, utilities rather than raw combat strength. Also it puts you one level out from your pact boon (assuming pact of the blade right)

    Sleep on
  • iguanacusiguanacus Desert PlanetRegistered User regular
    On a whim the other night I mocked up a halfing dex brute fighter. If you're DM doesn't have a problem with Unearthed Arcana (semi-official playtest material from WotC) I'd give it a try, seems very workable

    a Stout Halfing Brute:
    Beorn the Northpaw
    STR 10, DEX 16, CON 16, INT 10, WIS 13, CHA 10
    AC 16/18
    HP 13
    
    Carrying 2 Shortswords, Shield and a Short bow.
    Skills: Athletics, Perception, Stealth & Survival
    
    Outlander background (Clan member)
    Shirtless hunter from the wastes of Vaasa. He wears a cloak made out polar bears right arm proudly on his shoulder.
    
    Two Weapon Fighting Style
    Brute Fighter at level 3
    +2 Dex at level 4 & 6
    Switch to Studded Leather at level 4 for the same AC but no stealth disadvantage & weight savings
    Either Dual Wielder (2x Rapiers, +1 AC) or Crossbow Expert (for Hand Crossbow shenanigans) at level 8
    Defense Fighting Style at 10 for +1 AC
    Resilient - Wisdom at level 12 for +1 WIS and save proficiency
    

    Starting at level 1 you'll be attacking twice a turn for 1d6+DEX, going to 1d6+1d4+DEX at lvl3, and so on and so on. At lvl7 you add 1d6 to all saving throws (stout halfling already advantage & resistant to poison). When you hit 8 and choose a feat you can go with Dual Wielder for the benefits I listed above or you can take Crossbow Expert and you can basically make it so you're using a shortsword with a range of 30/120 when you need it.

    I dunno, I take you seriously on some topics and dick rider is your profession
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited May 7
    Aldo wrote: »
    Compared to a suboptimal party a fighter will look great. They are pretty straightforward in how they play and they shine in combat encounters. Their out of combat utility is zilch, though.

    I started playing in a campaign, that is going to be mostly 1 shots, since the group is like 9 people and normally only 5 to 6 will be there. But being one of only 2 experienced players, I figured I need to make a character that is combat effective so that I can carry some water for some of the more tacticily baffling decisions and also better be an option as the face to keep things moving when needed with Nobel background for Persuasion with a decent Charisma score and it is working okay. No Dex now, but I'll just do Heavy Armor Master anyways.

    Also I made him a 16 year old human, and sort of mentally play him like he's the FR version of a star lacrosse player. Who writes and performs poetry... emo poetry. So he is simultaneously the turbo charged killing engine propelling the group of murder hobos to victory and also the most hated member of the party.

    tinwhiskers on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 8
    Oh dear is the D&D game I'm running a hot mess (in the good way) because my players are borderline suicidal

    I had to remind them that their characters know attacking a vampire's lair at midnight isn't a smart idea and also that taking out a line of credit from the assassin's guild is likewise something they know might be a bad idea if they're not sure they can pay it back

    override367 on
  • ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    I am kinda scared of letting my players loose on a city for similar reasons.

    Chanus wrote: »

    Your wang is a better man than you.
  • KhildithKhildith Registered User regular
    One of my players is frankly doomed because of this. If something gross and poisonous or obviously unhealthy is around, he has his character eat it. Like dust of dryness or gross liquid left over in an unnatural egg that makes you throw up if you even smell it too much.

    In our last session I described a magic circle with corpses around it with footprints showing each of the corpses crossed through the circle right before dying, the player announces hes going to run into the middle of the circle and stand there! Hes like a toddler with cleric abilities.

    Hes playing a character that has a reason for acting a bit crazy, but I'm not certain that this is an actual character choice or if he just doesn't think I'll kill him if he does something obviously suicidal. He is almost certainly going to find out differently soon!

  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    Introduce another character for him to play. Say it's not natural if a replacement character only ever shows up right after a beloved companion has died, and since his is obviously going to get himself killed soon it won't tax him too much to play two in the meantime :twisted:

    sig.gif
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    What're the other players doing? We're keeping our Barbarian on a leash after she got my fighter knocked out twice in one evening.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 8
    my players adopted a girl (one of the ghosts from deadhouse they couldn't just put to rest like respectable people, and instead felt necessary to resurrect) and have been training her as a rogue for the 3 or so (ingame) years of the campaign, they took her vampire hunting and she got torn into fun sized chunks in front of them because why would you take a 13 year old vampire hunting


    The monk has a beloved item I have given him, a wand of random wishes, using a table I found online of 10,000 random effects (with the caveat that I will just reroll if something is too out of line). He said "I don't know if we can bring her back with this thing but I point it at her remains and use all 7 remaining charges"

    the child is alive again, a small volcano opened near the temple of Sune, she has a crown stuck to her head that cannot be removed, she's the queen of port nyanzaru (which isn't a monarchy so it's more ceremonial), she is incapable of wearing weapons and armor at the same time, all the priests of sune have gained temporary madness believing they're persecuted, and she's now a young brass dragon

    they managed to corral her back to their base near the old city and I had her burrow underground not wanting to be talked to which is where she still was when the game ended

    They THINK this is going to be an unquestionably good thing, their collectively adopted ward is an arcane trickster AND a dragon. Thing about dragons though, they're greedy, they're REALLY greedy. And they bought this girl gloves of thievery. She has +14 to sleight of hand.

    Hope none of them were too attached to their stuff

    override367 on
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    You should have it act like a thirteen year old, and so she steals all their stuff.. to fly down to the local fair and buy the entire stand of toffee apples.

    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    On that note, I've also saddled my party with a baby.
    I think we've now taken it deep-water diving and through into another epoch of time?
    We are hoping we can get it somewhere safe before we accidentally kill it.

    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 8
    discrider wrote: »
    You should have it act like a thirteen year old, and so she steals all their stuff.. to fly down to the local fair and buy the entire stand of toffee apples.

    I have already been having her act like a 13 year old, incredibly reckless and yet bestowed with the powers of an adventurer

    I've been rolling out of view for her shenanigans but she is actually already wealthier than the entire party (boasting such items as a frostbrand scimitar, boots of levitation, and a ghost lantern), this npc is a level 2 divination wizard and a level 3 arcane trickster. At the start of each ingame day I roll portents and at the end of each ingame day she goes a-stealin. Often it's not even super valuable stuff, for example I ran a series of rolls (per xanathars thieving rules) to have her steal a fair bit of merchant princess Kwayathe's (and her pet succubus') wardrobe while she was off at Goldenthrone

    In the background I've been dropping increasingly loud hints of increased thefts and they have no idea they are harboring the thief. One of these days one of them is going to look for her in her room and make an investigation check and they're going to lose their shit

    Before any of that nonsense can continue though they've gotten a new sidequest to finally get them out into the jungles for a bit: find an older metallic wyrm to teach her how to shapeshift back into a humanoid

    override367 on
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited May 8
    Wait, is this (CoS spoiler)
    Rosavalda Durst!?

    Smrtnik on
    steam_sig.png
  • ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    omg...strapping my party with a baby/child would be soooo much fun.

    Chanus wrote: »

    Your wang is a better man than you.
  • ZonugalZonugal The Divorce Force Registered User regular
    The monthly game of D&D I'm in at the moment has my best-friend playing a child based off of Laura from Logan.

    She is constantly swearing at us and storming off ahead, because she wants to, duh!

    Ross_Geller_Prime_Sig_A.jpg
  • webguy20webguy20 Registered User regular
    So I just attacked a drow as a polymorphed eagle, and as I dove at them i started my barbarian rage and our warlock unpolymorphed as i was just in range of my charge attack.

    This drow just watched a raging eagle diving at them and them transform into a minotaur barbarian charging horns first. I hit for 25?damage plus 10ft knockback, and it was amazing. I used the rest of my movement to stand up out of the small crater I made.

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Curious if this sounds like an interesting dungeon, or a dick move, or if it's something I read somewhere and am only thinking I made it up.
    The party enters the Tomb of Heroes, a monument dedicated to a legendary group of adventurers who saved the town (country, world, whatever) numerous times over their career. The massive antechamber that opens in in front of them is only dimly lit by a number of low burning braziers around the center of the hall, casting dancing shadows around the room.
    The walls to the sides of the tomb are lost in the dimness. Though the rear wall of the room is dominated by a single, massive door with intricate carvings, illuminated by braziers on either side.
    In the center of the room, a single massive statue of a fully armored knight. If standing, she'd easily top 12 feet, but she is kneeling. Her massive broadsword held vertically, point down in the floor with one hand wrapped around it's cross guard and her other hand rests on a tower shield. A closer inspection reveals this statue to be of remarkably realistic craftsmanship and, if not for the size, the armor would be indistinguishable from actual plate mail (if it's a really good perception check maybe mention that it seems like the statue could almost get up and walk around).
    A plaque is mounted in the floor at her feet, reading "Take arms my friends. The time for heroes is nearly upon us."

    Behind the statue of the knight are a number of smaller stone statues: the legendary band of heroes, all standing ready as if preparing for imminent combat, though all are strangely unarmed and unarmored.
    The number of statues is equal to the number of party members, and their classes are the same as the players. Inspecting the carvings on the large door will show the heroes, each wielding their preferred weapons/gear, which closely (though not exactly) mirrors the players equipment.
    The obvious solution is for players to disarm themselves to equip the statues around the room. As the party equips the statues, the statues grip the gear making it impossible to pry loose. The players have been warned that defiling this monument would be a very bad idea.
    Once the statues are fully equipped in this manner, the knight rises to her feet, revealing herself to be an iron golem (though possibly adjusted to have lesser golem stats depending on the party). The Knight attacks the party members. If they win the fight the door to the rear of the room opens allowing plot progression, or maybe just access to some treasure.
    Damaging the smaller statues, either accidentally or in an attempt to retrieve gear, causes them to all activate as well. They are stone golems, armed and proficient with your players gear and able to cast level appropriate spells to match the party.

    The less obvious solution involves increasing the light level in the room through whatever means (magic, torches, pouring oil/firewood into the braziers...), revealing a number of smaller doors in the sides of the main hall (again, equal to the number of party members). These doors are locked, but the locks are easily bypassed. Each is clearly designed to keep things from the other side of the door from getting out rather than to prevent anyone on this side from getting in. Exploring these lesser halls lets the party encounter a number of fights, traps, puzzles or other obstacles based on the party members before they find a sarcophagus at the end of each one. Each sarcophagus is adorned with a plaque detailing the name and some of the more famous deeds of one of the heroes buried in the tomb, and each is decorated with stone replicas of class relevant equipment that can be easily carried back to the main hall and equipped on the statues to proceed through the large door...

    At this point I'm not sure if I'd want The Knight to fight or not.
    I'm thinking the theme is kind of based around respecting the dungeon and the dead interred there by learning their stories and how they might relate to your own past and future adventures as opposed to taking the easiest route to treasure. Ideally each hall dungeon would be based off of the class of that adventurer. The fighter dungeon would have you get in fights, the rogue dungeon you'd have to pass a series of dexterity checks like an obstacle course and disarm traps (think Indiana Jones here), the wizard dungeon requires tests of intelligence and problem solving followed by dumping some high level spell slots to blow something up, then at the end of each you learn a bit about the heroes buried here before obtaining their macguffins to proceed.
    Or you bypass them, lose your gear (temporarily?) and have to fight a very difficult monster (potentially bare handed and without your spell component bags or casting focuses if you haven't kept spares), but with all the combat resources that you would have otherwise spent in the side dungeons.

    On the other hand, it's D&D, and it seems like a dungeon should have a big boss fight at the end. Maybe something gribbly and potentially gibbering on the other side of the door?
    So, does that sound like it might be a fun bit to play? It seems like the potential for it to be over unfortunately quickly exists depending on the party.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    edited May 10
    As a player it feels like I get screwed either way and I could get forced to fight without my gear? Doesn't seem like you're following three clues at all, so you should assume the party will figure nothing out and make that playthrough still fun

    Powerpuppies on
    sig.gif
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Somehow my players managed to "activate" both endings to the Death House by
    sacrificing a familiar on the altar but then one of them getting greedy and shooting a sacred flame into the garbage pile/shambling mound to "see if there is any treasure"

    steam_sig.png
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Somehow my players managed to "activate" both endings to the Death House by
    sacrificing a familiar on the altar but then one of them getting greedy and shooting a sacred flame into the garbage pile/shambling mound to "see if there is any treasure"

    Sounds like someone read ahead. You should kill their pc to make a point.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    evilthecat wrote: »
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Somehow my players managed to "activate" both endings to the Death House by
    sacrificing a familiar on the altar but then one of them getting greedy and shooting a sacred flame into the garbage pile/shambling mound to "see if there is any treasure"

    Sounds like someone read ahead. You should kill their pc to make a point.

    No, this particular player generally gets the party in trouble, and toss wouldn't be the first time. In the "how they got to Barovia" session i wrote instead of using the prepared ones, she ran ahead of the party to save whomever was making the cries for help only to pull additional monsters into a fight they were already in. And in an earlier adventure she's placed aoe spells on top of the party.

    She missed last session so she was behind on xp, and what i suspect happened is that she metagamed that there would be something in the garbage that she could get xp or loot from but wasn't expecting what actually came out of it. And 2 other party members whose initiative was before hers ran for it so she had to run. When they got it if the house she asked if she can have 107xp (to get her to lvl 3) and i said no, but you are alive.

    steam_sig.png
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Curious if this sounds like an interesting dungeon, or a dick move, or if it's something I read somewhere and am only thinking I made it up.
    The party enters the Tomb of Heroes, a monument dedicated to a legendary group of adventurers who saved the town (country, world, whatever) numerous times over their career. The massive antechamber that opens in in front of them is only dimly lit by a number of low burning braziers around the center of the hall, casting dancing shadows around the room.
    The walls to the sides of the tomb are lost in the dimness. Though the rear wall of the room is dominated by a single, massive door with intricate carvings, illuminated by braziers on either side.
    In the center of the room, a single massive statue of a fully armored knight. If standing, she'd easily top 12 feet, but she is kneeling. Her massive broadsword held vertically, point down in the floor with one hand wrapped around it's cross guard and her other hand rests on a tower shield. A closer inspection reveals this statue to be of remarkably realistic craftsmanship and, if not for the size, the armor would be indistinguishable from actual plate mail (if it's a really good perception check maybe mention that it seems like the statue could almost get up and walk around).
    A plaque is mounted in the floor at her feet, reading "Take arms my friends. The time for heroes is nearly upon us."

    Behind the statue of the knight are a number of smaller stone statues: the legendary band of heroes, all standing ready as if preparing for imminent combat, though all are strangely unarmed and unarmored.
    The number of statues is equal to the number of party members, and their classes are the same as the players. Inspecting the carvings on the large door will show the heroes, each wielding their preferred weapons/gear, which closely (though not exactly) mirrors the players equipment.
    The obvious solution is for players to disarm themselves to equip the statues around the room. As the party equips the statues, the statues grip the gear making it impossible to pry loose. The players have been warned that defiling this monument would be a very bad idea.
    Once the statues are fully equipped in this manner, the knight rises to her feet, revealing herself to be an iron golem (though possibly adjusted to have lesser golem stats depending on the party). The Knight attacks the party members. If they win the fight the door to the rear of the room opens allowing plot progression, or maybe just access to some treasure.
    Damaging the smaller statues, either accidentally or in an attempt to retrieve gear, causes them to all activate as well. They are stone golems, armed and proficient with your players gear and able to cast level appropriate spells to match the party.

    The less obvious solution involves increasing the light level in the room through whatever means (magic, torches, pouring oil/firewood into the braziers...), revealing a number of smaller doors in the sides of the main hall (again, equal to the number of party members). These doors are locked, but the locks are easily bypassed. Each is clearly designed to keep things from the other side of the door from getting out rather than to prevent anyone on this side from getting in. Exploring these lesser halls lets the party encounter a number of fights, traps, puzzles or other obstacles based on the party members before they find a sarcophagus at the end of each one. Each sarcophagus is adorned with a plaque detailing the name and some of the more famous deeds of one of the heroes buried in the tomb, and each is decorated with stone replicas of class relevant equipment that can be easily carried back to the main hall and equipped on the statues to proceed through the large door...

    At this point I'm not sure if I'd want The Knight to fight or not.
    I'm thinking the theme is kind of based around respecting the dungeon and the dead interred there by learning their stories and how they might relate to your own past and future adventures as opposed to taking the easiest route to treasure. Ideally each hall dungeon would be based off of the class of that adventurer. The fighter dungeon would have you get in fights, the rogue dungeon you'd have to pass a series of dexterity checks like an obstacle course and disarm traps (think Indiana Jones here), the wizard dungeon requires tests of intelligence and problem solving followed by dumping some high level spell slots to blow something up, then at the end of each you learn a bit about the heroes buried here before obtaining their macguffins to proceed.
    Or you bypass them, lose your gear (temporarily?) and have to fight a very difficult monster (potentially bare handed and without your spell component bags or casting focuses if you haven't kept spares), but with all the combat resources that you would have otherwise spent in the side dungeons.

    On the other hand, it's D&D, and it seems like a dungeon should have a big boss fight at the end. Maybe something gribbly and potentially gibbering on the other side of the door?
    So, does that sound like it might be a fun bit to play? It seems like the potential for it to be over unfortunately quickly exists depending on the party.

    It sounds, uh ... How do I say this charitably?

    It sounds awful. Like, straight-up, pick-up-my-dice, thank-you-for-the-game, walk-out awful.

    Like, just as I was reading through your description, my first thought was, "Hey - we can place our weapons on the statues - following the hint in the plaque - and open a secret door." That sounds neat!

    Except it's not a "secret door," really, it's a huge fight against a probably-overwhelming enemy, and I don't have my gear because it's on the statue that opened the door, and if I try to get it back, that statue animates and tries to kill me with my own stuff. Or they all animate if they're caught in an AoE that I might cast while trying to fight off the iron golem.

    Also, the "secret doors" on the side that are hidden in the dark (somehow?) aren't really going to be hidden. Any nonhuman (and nonhalfling?) in your party will have some form of low-light vision that makes them more-or-less immediately visible. There's also nothing in your room that indicates that "raising the light level" - such as just by walking in with a torch? - would have any effect. If you want that to be the puzzle, there should be something that indicates it's a good idea.

    omgbfz5lzi1s.png
    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    The Disappearance of Inigo Sharpe: Tomas à Dunsanin
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Curious if this sounds like an interesting dungeon, or a dick move, or if it's something I read somewhere and am only thinking I made it up.
    The party enters the Tomb of Heroes, a monument dedicated to a legendary group of adventurers who saved the town (country, world, whatever) numerous times over their career. The massive antechamber that opens in in front of them is only dimly lit by a number of low burning braziers around the center of the hall, casting dancing shadows around the room.
    The walls to the sides of the tomb are lost in the dimness. Though the rear wall of the room is dominated by a single, massive door with intricate carvings, illuminated by braziers on either side.
    In the center of the room, a single massive statue of a fully armored knight. If standing, she'd easily top 12 feet, but she is kneeling. Her massive broadsword held vertically, point down in the floor with one hand wrapped around it's cross guard and her other hand rests on a tower shield. A closer inspection reveals this statue to be of remarkably realistic craftsmanship and, if not for the size, the armor would be indistinguishable from actual plate mail (if it's a really good perception check maybe mention that it seems like the statue could almost get up and walk around).
    A plaque is mounted in the floor at her feet, reading "Take arms my friends. The time for heroes is nearly upon us."

    Behind the statue of the knight are a number of smaller stone statues: the legendary band of heroes, all standing ready as if preparing for imminent combat, though all are strangely unarmed and unarmored.
    The number of statues is equal to the number of party members, and their classes are the same as the players. Inspecting the carvings on the large door will show the heroes, each wielding their preferred weapons/gear, which closely (though not exactly) mirrors the players equipment.
    The obvious solution is for players to disarm themselves to equip the statues around the room. As the party equips the statues, the statues grip the gear making it impossible to pry loose. The players have been warned that defiling this monument would be a very bad idea.
    Once the statues are fully equipped in this manner, the knight rises to her feet, revealing herself to be an iron golem (though possibly adjusted to have lesser golem stats depending on the party). The Knight attacks the party members. If they win the fight the door to the rear of the room opens allowing plot progression, or maybe just access to some treasure.
    Damaging the smaller statues, either accidentally or in an attempt to retrieve gear, causes them to all activate as well. They are stone golems, armed and proficient with your players gear and able to cast level appropriate spells to match the party.

    The less obvious solution involves increasing the light level in the room through whatever means (magic, torches, pouring oil/firewood into the braziers...), revealing a number of smaller doors in the sides of the main hall (again, equal to the number of party members). These doors are locked, but the locks are easily bypassed. Each is clearly designed to keep things from the other side of the door from getting out rather than to prevent anyone on this side from getting in. Exploring these lesser halls lets the party encounter a number of fights, traps, puzzles or other obstacles based on the party members before they find a sarcophagus at the end of each one. Each sarcophagus is adorned with a plaque detailing the name and some of the more famous deeds of one of the heroes buried in the tomb, and each is decorated with stone replicas of class relevant equipment that can be easily carried back to the main hall and equipped on the statues to proceed through the large door...

    At this point I'm not sure if I'd want The Knight to fight or not.
    I'm thinking the theme is kind of based around respecting the dungeon and the dead interred there by learning their stories and how they might relate to your own past and future adventures as opposed to taking the easiest route to treasure. Ideally each hall dungeon would be based off of the class of that adventurer. The fighter dungeon would have you get in fights, the rogue dungeon you'd have to pass a series of dexterity checks like an obstacle course and disarm traps (think Indiana Jones here), the wizard dungeon requires tests of intelligence and problem solving followed by dumping some high level spell slots to blow something up, then at the end of each you learn a bit about the heroes buried here before obtaining their macguffins to proceed.
    Or you bypass them, lose your gear (temporarily?) and have to fight a very difficult monster (potentially bare handed and without your spell component bags or casting focuses if you haven't kept spares), but with all the combat resources that you would have otherwise spent in the side dungeons.

    On the other hand, it's D&D, and it seems like a dungeon should have a big boss fight at the end. Maybe something gribbly and potentially gibbering on the other side of the door?
    So, does that sound like it might be a fun bit to play? It seems like the potential for it to be over unfortunately quickly exists depending on the party.

    It sounds, uh ... How do I say this charitably?

    It sounds awful. Like, straight-up, pick-up-my-dice, thank-you-for-the-game, walk-out awful.

    Like, just as I was reading through your description, my first thought was, "Hey - we can place our weapons on the statues - following the hint in the plaque - and open a secret door." That sounds neat!

    Except it's not a "secret door," really, it's a huge fight against a probably-overwhelming enemy, and I don't have my gear because it's on the statue that opened the door, and if I try to get it back, that statue animates and tries to kill me with my own stuff. Or they all animate if they're caught in an AoE that I might cast while trying to fight off the iron golem.

    Also, the "secret doors" on the side that are hidden in the dark (somehow?) aren't really going to be hidden. Any nonhuman (and nonhalfling?) in your party will have some form of low-light vision that makes them more-or-less immediately visible. There's also nothing in your room that indicates that "raising the light level" - such as just by walking in with a torch? - would have any effect. If you want that to be the puzzle, there should be something that indicates it's a good idea.

    Cool, this is the kind of information I was looking for. I had assumed that "Investigate the room" was part of the normal dungeon crawl for most people and that would reveal the doors.
    If it's just my group who's surprisingly curious for a team of wandering murder hobos, then I'll need to add something to indicate the doors, or just have them be visible from the start.

    At least the idea of equipping the statues to proceed wasn't completely terrible though, right? Just everything that follows.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Yeah, if they are being deprived of their gear, then the challenges that take place after that need to account for that, or else it feels unfair.

    If you have a secret door that will be triggered, perhaps have a sign of it show up after they place a single item with one statue - y'know, like, one rune lighting up around the hidden entrance or the slight creak of a gear, things like that.

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    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Curious if this sounds like an interesting dungeon, or a dick move, or if it's something I read somewhere and am only thinking I made it up.
    The party enters the Tomb of Heroes, a monument dedicated to a legendary group of adventurers who saved the town (country, world, whatever) numerous times over their career. The massive antechamber that opens in in front of them is only dimly lit by a number of low burning braziers around the center of the hall, casting dancing shadows around the room.
    The walls to the sides of the tomb are lost in the dimness. Though the rear wall of the room is dominated by a single, massive door with intricate carvings, illuminated by braziers on either side.
    In the center of the room, a single massive statue of a fully armored knight. If standing, she'd easily top 12 feet, but she is kneeling. Her massive broadsword held vertically, point down in the floor with one hand wrapped around it's cross guard and her other hand rests on a tower shield. A closer inspection reveals this statue to be of remarkably realistic craftsmanship and, if not for the size, the armor would be indistinguishable from actual plate mail (if it's a really good perception check maybe mention that it seems like the statue could almost get up and walk around).
    A plaque is mounted in the floor at her feet, reading "Take arms my friends. The time for heroes is nearly upon us."

    Behind the statue of the knight are a number of smaller stone statues: the legendary band of heroes, all standing ready as if preparing for imminent combat, though all are strangely unarmed and unarmored.
    The number of statues is equal to the number of party members, and their classes are the same as the players. Inspecting the carvings on the large door will show the heroes, each wielding their preferred weapons/gear, which closely (though not exactly) mirrors the players equipment.
    The obvious solution is for players to disarm themselves to equip the statues around the room. As the party equips the statues, the statues grip the gear making it impossible to pry loose. The players have been warned that defiling this monument would be a very bad idea.
    Once the statues are fully equipped in this manner, the knight rises to her feet, revealing herself to be an iron golem (though possibly adjusted to have lesser golem stats depending on the party). The Knight attacks the party members. If they win the fight the door to the rear of the room opens allowing plot progression, or maybe just access to some treasure.
    Damaging the smaller statues, either accidentally or in an attempt to retrieve gear, causes them to all activate as well. They are stone golems, armed and proficient with your players gear and able to cast level appropriate spells to match the party.

    The less obvious solution involves increasing the light level in the room through whatever means (magic, torches, pouring oil/firewood into the braziers...), revealing a number of smaller doors in the sides of the main hall (again, equal to the number of party members). These doors are locked, but the locks are easily bypassed. Each is clearly designed to keep things from the other side of the door from getting out rather than to prevent anyone on this side from getting in. Exploring these lesser halls lets the party encounter a number of fights, traps, puzzles or other obstacles based on the party members before they find a sarcophagus at the end of each one. Each sarcophagus is adorned with a plaque detailing the name and some of the more famous deeds of one of the heroes buried in the tomb, and each is decorated with stone replicas of class relevant equipment that can be easily carried back to the main hall and equipped on the statues to proceed through the large door...

    At this point I'm not sure if I'd want The Knight to fight or not.
    I'm thinking the theme is kind of based around respecting the dungeon and the dead interred there by learning their stories and how they might relate to your own past and future adventures as opposed to taking the easiest route to treasure. Ideally each hall dungeon would be based off of the class of that adventurer. The fighter dungeon would have you get in fights, the rogue dungeon you'd have to pass a series of dexterity checks like an obstacle course and disarm traps (think Indiana Jones here), the wizard dungeon requires tests of intelligence and problem solving followed by dumping some high level spell slots to blow something up, then at the end of each you learn a bit about the heroes buried here before obtaining their macguffins to proceed.
    Or you bypass them, lose your gear (temporarily?) and have to fight a very difficult monster (potentially bare handed and without your spell component bags or casting focuses if you haven't kept spares), but with all the combat resources that you would have otherwise spent in the side dungeons.

    On the other hand, it's D&D, and it seems like a dungeon should have a big boss fight at the end. Maybe something gribbly and potentially gibbering on the other side of the door?
    So, does that sound like it might be a fun bit to play? It seems like the potential for it to be over unfortunately quickly exists depending on the party.

    It sounds, uh ... How do I say this charitably?

    It sounds awful. Like, straight-up, pick-up-my-dice, thank-you-for-the-game, walk-out awful.

    Like, just as I was reading through your description, my first thought was, "Hey - we can place our weapons on the statues - following the hint in the plaque - and open a secret door." That sounds neat!

    Except it's not a "secret door," really, it's a huge fight against a probably-overwhelming enemy, and I don't have my gear because it's on the statue that opened the door, and if I try to get it back, that statue animates and tries to kill me with my own stuff. Or they all animate if they're caught in an AoE that I might cast while trying to fight off the iron golem.

    Also, the "secret doors" on the side that are hidden in the dark (somehow?) aren't really going to be hidden. Any nonhuman (and nonhalfling?) in your party will have some form of low-light vision that makes them more-or-less immediately visible. There's also nothing in your room that indicates that "raising the light level" - such as just by walking in with a torch? - would have any effect. If you want that to be the puzzle, there should be something that indicates it's a good idea.

    Cool, this is the kind of information I was looking for. I had assumed that "Investigate the room" was part of the normal dungeon crawl for most people and that would reveal the doors.
    If it's just my group who's surprisingly curious for a team of wandering murder hobos, then I'll need to add something to indicate the doors, or just have them be visible from the start.

    At least the idea of equipping the statues to proceed wasn't completely terrible though, right? Just everything that follows.

    No, gosh - equipping the statues to proceed is a great idea. :D

    In fact, maybe have one of them already equipped with the "sham" gear, one of the doors to the side already open and unlocked (and empty), and one that looks like it was unlocked and traveled through fairly recently and then relocked again and left alone. Then, in that mini-dungeon, the party can find the remains of the previous team of adventurers who were done in by whatever the traps / trials are down that passage.

    More generally, I find it helpful to think of Zelda games when I'm doing "puzzles" for my players.

    The end boss requires you to have mastered a certain mechanic (usually based around an item you picked up in that dungeon), but 1) it's not the first time you see it, and 2) the lead-in is gradual.

    So, with, e.g., bombs, the first puzzle just requires you to use a bomb at the right spot (and maybe there are a couple of these). The second puzzle requires you to use a bomb to trigger something on a delay. The third puzzle requires you to beat an enemy who can only be damaged while he's stunned from, e.g., your boomerang. And then the boss requires you to drop a bomb, then stun him, so that he's over the bomb when it detonates.

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    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    The Disappearance of Inigo Sharpe: Tomas à Dunsanin
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited May 10
    ... hit "post" too soon ...

    Finishing here.

    So, "The room must be brightly lit for the doors to show up" is a good puzzle. But if you're going to do it, hint at it beforehand. Have previous rooms in the Tomb of Heroes where there are light-based shenanigans going on, and ones where there's a plaque on the floor talking about the value of illumination near some torches that, when lit, dispel some magical darkness. Etc. (EDIT2: Maybe the adventuring team was known, previously, as the Heroes of Light?)

    Then, when they get to the "final chamber," and they notice all the unlit braziers around, lighting things up to find hidden doors doesn't feel like it comes out of left field.

    EDIT: And, of course, since this is D&D, allow for other ways to see that the doors are there. Detect Magic might reveal the illusion spells hiding them, or the transmutation spells that cause the real stone blocking the doorways to melt away when the proper brazier is lit, etc.

    Elvenshae on
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    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    The Disappearance of Inigo Sharpe: Tomas à Dunsanin
  • FryFry Registered User regular
    edited May 10
    Another consideration: in Zelda, there basically only exists one sword in the entire world, so when there's a statue that looks like it wants you to put a sword in its hand, that's a big deal! In D&D, your party probably has three to five swords among them, possibly dozens if they have a bag of holding and haven't been back to town lately. Plus they can go scrounge some swords, spears, and bows from the goblins they killed outside. Having a statue that wants to be equipped isn't as narratively impactful.

    But if they do choose to try to use their own gear, don't take that as an excuse to remove their gear forever. D&D players hate being deprived of their stuff. The magical weapons and armor often feel like part of the character. They wrote down all of their attacks anticipating that they're going to be swinging a +2 greatsword, if you force them to recalculate for a mundane longsword or *shudder* bare-handed, they're going to be unhappy.

    Having the "reward" for solving a puzzle be a hard fight feels very wrong. Being clever enough to shortcut a puzzle should be a good thing!

    I think you could make the idea work with some tweaking. If the players can make an informed decision (hard fight unequipped vs doing side areas) it feels a lot better than trying to solve the immediate puzzle with the tools at hand and being punished with a tough fight for doing it "correctly." Maybe have some lore on the wall indicating that there are two ways into the tomb: the path of Skill and the path of Combat, with a hallway clearly indicated for each. For the path of Combat, there is further wall-lore that indicates a position to temporarily unburden themselves of their worldly possessions, with the promise of a dangerous foe ahead to overcome. And allow the party to come back and get their stuff when they're done! Then there can be wall-lore for the path of Skill that lays out whatever your other challenges were (including your dexterity, intelligence, and strength challenges).


    edit: another way you could tweak your original idea: side areas are all visible from the get-go. Small statues will not accept the "wrong" items to be placed in their hands, they will only hold the stone/ornamental weapons and gear from the side areas. After all of the small statues are correctly loaded, have the fight against the big statue. After the big statue is defeated, the stone/ornamental weapons in the small statues' hands are transformed into real magical items, which the statues then set down to allow the PCs to claim them.

    Fry on
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Is there a good 5e character builder out there given Orcpub has been nerfed?

    I tried using Wizards' official one until I realized they want me to repurchase everything I already have.

  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited May 12
    Quid wrote: »
    Is there a good 5e character builder out there given Orcpub has been nerfed?

    I tried using Wizards' official one until I realized they want me to repurchase everything I already have.

    More Purple More Betters character sheet pdf one is pretty solid, but it also only comes with the SRD stuff. It'd be really cool if it could also import a javascript file that had all the other published stuff, like it can due for homebrew, so you could use it to make a non SRD character, but I'm sure no such all_WotC_pub+UA.js file exists on the internet. And if it did, how would someone find something so small on something as vast as the entire internet. There have to be like a googilian different places it could be.

    tinwhiskers on
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