They advanced the PLOT?! Warhammer 40k casual lore

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  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    New edition of 40K being announced:

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  • SnowbearSnowbear Registered User regular
    Cawl could not improve the trusty chainsword it seems.

    8EVmPzM.jpg
  • ElaroElaro Mister No Fun AllowedRegistered User regular
    Snowbear wrote: »
    Cawl could not improve the trusty chainsword it seems.

    Even the mightiest of Armor Piercing numbers cannot best one more attack per model.

    My ongoing quest to ask Larlar if he's a good source of Malarlarkey: FOILED AT THE FINAL HOUR
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Snowbear wrote: »
    Cawl could not improve the trusty chainsword it seems.

    The chainsword, laser rifle, and your trusty bayonet are the pinnacle of military achievement, recruit. What is this doubt in the Munitorum's ability to provide materiel gloriously superior to that used by the perfidious foes of Man?

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  • SnowbearSnowbear Registered User regular
    That's my point, Cawl came out of nowhere like "I made better marines, and better guns, and better tanks, and better dreadnoughts...What? M-melee weapons? No, no those as good as they get."

    8EVmPzM.jpg
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    I am legit shocked they are coming out with a new edition, instead of just updating 8th some more

    also, chainswords are exactly as good as they need to be, and improving them likely would not improve overall results to a measurable degree
    resources are also a consideration

    also, cawl was very nearly executed for making primaris marines, what with technological breakthroughs being a heresy

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Apparently the recent psychic awakening stuff is compatible with the new edition, so it might be that this is more of a 8.5 than a 9th edition.

    Styrofoam Sammich
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    if the only change is that shooting occurs simultaneously, I will be happy

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    The new edition is the same core as current but with some major refinements to some peripheral bits. Hopefully they will tighten up the wording so that assault weapons actually work RAW which they didn’t at the beginning of 8e.
    Anyway there’s a video about the nine biggest/best changes (because 9th edition lawl) and it’s basically:
    • cover is useful again
    • reserves are useful again
    • tanks are useful again
    • big guns are useful again
    • soup’s off/no more Loyal 32
    • flyers actually fly again
    • Warcry style asymmetric campaign mode
    • rules scale from single squad patrol incidents to near-apocalypse battles

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    why are they even addressing soup, a thing that has not been good for a year

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    Did you also notice the list only has eight things?

    Actually what they’ve really done is fix the baseline CP value to the size of the battle and make you spend CP to include allies.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    if the only change is that shooting occurs simultaneously, I will be happy

    They've said they're borrowing from KT and Armageddon so maybe

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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    why are they even addressing soup, a thing that has not been good for a year

    Because they changed it because people were building armies just to take advantage of the CP you could generate and certain powers
    I was annoyed as it effected the army who's whole basic thing is soup the Ynnari

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    why are they even addressing soup, a thing that has not been good for a year

    Because they changed it because people were building armies just to take advantage of the CP you could generate and certain powers
    I was annoyed as it effected the army who's whole basic thing is soup the Ynnari

    right yes, I understand what soup is

    it's just it hasn't been a thing in like, a year? at least

    pretty much ever since new orks came out, new marine chapters essentially killed any reason to soup

    last years nerfs destroyed my knights army, and now they've fallen all the way to pretty much dead last even if they take loyal32

  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    edited May 24
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    why are they even addressing soup, a thing that has not been good for a year

    I suspect the way soup is going to work now is that you buy detachments with CP instead of getting CP for building them, and tags other than your main faction more expensive.

    Knights will likely get a serious competitive boost from Engine War, and likely also got helped a lot by forcing SM armies to advance through doctrines instead of being able to just sit in Devastator all game. We just didn't get a chance to see the effects of that before COVID basically shut down tabletop.

    Monwyn on
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  • TonkkaTonkka Some one in the club tonight Has stolen my ideas.Registered User regular
    As someone who hasn't actually played or even looked at a codex or rulebook since 3rd(?!) edition, I have no worldly idea what any of you are even talking about.

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  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Soup is a sort of watery food that humans prepare

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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited May 24
    Tonkka wrote: »
    As someone who hasn't actually played or even looked at a codex or rulebook since 3rd(?!) edition, I have no worldly idea what any of you are even talking about.

    As someone who has never played the tabletop game and only briefly glanced through the core rules for 7th and 8th, but spends a lot of time reading threads here and articles on goonhammer and 1d4chan, I didn't find it that hard to follow?

    Soup is army lists that mix detachments from different army books (Imperial Knights with Imperial Guard, for example). CP are command points, which are a resource you get based on how you build your army or obtain mid-game using various army-specific special rules (usually warlord traits, which are associated with your main HQ choice, and you can only have 1 active per match). CP can be spent to activate various other army-specific special rules called stratagems (including pre-game ones that let you cheat the deployment rules or list-building options). Certain armies (usually small elite forces) are really at their best using high-octane strategem-based tactics, but have limited CP supplies to fuel them. Meanwhile other armies (often large hordes of cheap units) have really robust options for generating extra CP. This lead to a situation where tournaments where being heavily dominated by high/low mixtures like the aforementioned Knights and Guards mixed lists (aka Imperial Soup). The most popular Guard CP battery build was called the "loyal 32" for the number of figures in it (2 HQ choices, 3x10-guard Troops choices), similarly the most popular Adeptus Mechanicus build is the "rusty 17" (2 HQ, 3x5-skitarii Troops). These are both very point-cheap ways to add a lot of CP to your army for your scary stuff to exploit.

    Soup has fallen out of favor recently due to a preponderance of new army gimmicks that favor monobuilds where all detachments come from the same subfaction.

    Edit: Oh, detachments are basically portions of an army that have specific force org requirements (the bread and butter example being the battalion, which needs 2 HQ & 3 Troops, and grants 5 CP, at what is often a low point cost). Detachments let you mix and match to tailor your army a lot more than the old force org charts did, while still having some flavor to them. IIRC, you can also mix detachments from any army that share a faction keyword (like "Imperial", "Space Marine", "Chaos", or the new trademarkable name for space elves, "Aeldari"). Your maximum number of detachments scaled up with the point limit for a match, with 3 being the limit for 2000 point games.

    H3Knuckles on
    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Soup is a sort of watery food that humans prepare

    It's great if you're hungry and also thirsty because you can sort of eat and drink it at the same time.

    H9f4bVe.png
    H3KnucklesHobnailKristmas Kthulhu
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Tonkka wrote: »
    As someone who hasn't actually played or even looked at a codex or rulebook since 3rd(?!) edition, I have no worldly idea what any of you are even talking about.
    As someone who has never played the tabletop game and only briefly glanced through the core rules for 7th and 8th, but spends a lot of time reading threads here and articles on goonhammer and 1d4chan, I didn't find it that hard to follow?

    Soup is army lists that mix detachments from different army books (Imperial Knights with Imperial Guard, for example). CP are command points, which are a resource you get based on how you build your army or obtain mid-game using various army-specific special rules (usually warlord traits, which are associated with your main HQ choice, and you can only have 1 active per match). CP can be spent to activate various other army-specific special rules called stratagems (including pre-game ones that let you cheat the deployment rules or list-building options). Certain armies (usually small elite forces) are really at their best using high-octane strategem-based tactics, but have limited CP supplies to fuel them. Meanwhile other armies (often large hordes of cheap units) have really robust options for generating extra CP. This lead to a situation where tournaments where being heavily dominated by high/low mixtures like the aforementioned Knights and Guards mixed lists (aka Imperial Soup). The most popular Guard CP battery build was called the "loyal 32" for the number of figures in it (2 HQ choices, 3x10-guard Troops choices), similarly the most popular Adeptus Mechanicus build is the "rusty 17" (2 HQ, 3x5-skitarii Troops). These are both very point-cheap ways to add a lot of CP to your army for your scary stuff to exploit.

    Soup has fallen out of favor recently due to a preponderance of new army gimmicks that favor monobuilds where all detachments come from the same subfaction.

    Edit: Oh, detachments are basically portions of an army that have specific force org requirements (the bread and butter example being the battalion, which needs 2 HQ & 3 Troops, and grants 5 CP, at what is often a low point cost). Detachments let you mix and match to tailor your army a lot more than the old force org charts did, while still having some flavor to them. IIRC, you can also mix detachments from any army that share a faction keyword (like "Imperial", "Space Marine", "Chaos", or the new trademarkable name for space elves, "Aeldari"). Your maximum number of detachments scaled up with the point limit for a match, with 3 being the limit for 2000 point games.

    An excellent summary. Just wanted to add, for those who are used to 3rd edition, detachments are basically an iteration of the standard force org chart with slots per role only they explicitly codified how you can have multiple charts, and created several ‘standard’ or common charts for everyone to use rather than having faction-specific ones (hello Decurion, no we don’t miss you) all over the place. The most familiar would be the Battalion which is the 3e standard, plus an extra mandatory HQ and two slots for Flyers which are a separate new Role but there are an assortment of weird ones that focus on having more of a particular Role, like the Outrider detachment that has 3-6 Fast Attack units but 0-3 Troops, and super-specialised ones like the Super-Heavy which is 3-5 Lords of War (aka super-heavy) units which is pretty much the only detachment Imperial Knights can take since they have no units in any other Role.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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  • LalaboxLalabox Registered User regular
    Im gonna run my knights with my solar auxilia counting as scions and then it's not gonna be all that effective and im also going to remember that ive never been big on playing but i should give it a go now and then

  • TonkkaTonkka Some one in the club tonight Has stolen my ideas.Registered User regular
    Yeah, no, I still don't follow.

    Old brain and all.

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  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    This is all based on my understanding of forum posts, I have never played a Warhammer, so this will be maybe accurate in spirit but wrong in details:

    CPs are fuel that lets you cast special abilities.

    Armies with big scary special abilities are balanced by not letting you generate many CPs.

    Armies with lots of weakling units are balanced by letting you get CPs all day every day.

    A rule in the game lets you build an army by taking a couple of units from one faction and some more units from another faction, e.g. a couple of Space Marines and 10,000 Imperial Guard.

    People figured out you could make a legal army by taking a couple of scary units with powerful CP-fueled abilities from Faction A and then take a whole lot of the crummy puny units from Faction B to just generate CP to fuel the scary units.

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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    Delduwath wrote: »
    This is all based on my understanding of forum posts, I have never played a Warhammer, so this will be maybe accurate in spirit but wrong in details:

    CPs are fuel that lets you cast special abilities.

    Armies with big scary special abilities are balanced by not letting you generate many CPs.

    Armies with lots of weakling units are balanced by letting you get CPs all day every day.

    A rule in the game lets you build an army by taking a couple of units from one faction and some more units from another faction, e.g. a couple of Space Marines and 10,000 Imperial Guard.

    People figured out you could make a legal army by taking a couple of scary units with powerful CP-fueled abilities from Faction A and then take a whole lot of the crummy puny units from Faction B to just generate CP to fuel the scary units.

    All this, in theory, except they screwed up because the the elite armies that don’t generate many CP kinda hilariously under-perform without their special abilities, simply because big numbers are even scarier than mad special rules, especially when they don’t work.

    So they are re-balancing the system by reversing the polarity on the CP generator; when 9e hits, both sides will be starting with a set number based on the size of the game and adding extra army keywords will cost you CP same as a special rule, somehow. Details are non-existent so far.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited May 25
    Imperial soup had neat mechanics, and it was fluffy, so it shouldn't die in a fire. But it was way too strong and for so long people kept coming up with changes to try and fix it and none of them were enough. What finally fixed (and possibly over-corrected) the imbalance was to stop changing soup rules and start adding newer, stronger incentives to the various armies to monobuild, like with the Space Marine doctrines.

    H3Knuckles on
    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
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  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    Like the ideal should've been "a small detachment of space marines support a larger guard army" and not the other way around.

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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Like the ideal should've been "a small detachment of space marines support a larger guard army" and not the other way around.

    The guards are just the SMs' pets. Who's a good little guardsman? You are. Yes you are.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    gxao0oz1sem6.jpg

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  • LalaboxLalabox Registered User regular
    Lancer Ousmane Marot, Pilot of Litha's Bountiful Harvest

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    I really really just like mechs.

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  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
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    40k being what it is, this happened somewhere with a human scavenger and his lovable grot buddy who's along for the salvage.

    Tonkka
  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    edited May 30
    I just received my copy of WD 453 today and damn if they didn't steal our idea for a chapter of librarian space marines. Which one of you works for White Dwarf and thought we'd forget after only a year? (We came up with our ideas back in Feb-Mar of 2019, around pg 69 of this thread.)

    valhalla130 on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Is 253 the issue with the harlequin rules?

  • ElaroElaro Mister No Fun AllowedRegistered User regular
    I just received my copy of WD 453 today and damn if they didn't steal our idea for a chapter of librarian space marines. Which one of you works for White Dwarf and thought we'd forget after only a year? (We came up with our ideas back in Feb-Mar of 2019, around pg 69 of this thread.)

    I believe we've already had this discussion (although maybe in the CF 40K thread), and I believe we came to the conclusion that the person who alerted WD was...

    *looks at notes*

    "everybody".

    My ongoing quest to ask Larlar if he's a good source of Malarlarkey: FOILED AT THE FINAL HOUR
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