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They advanced the PLOT?! Warhammer 40k casual lore

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    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Squats actually did get some models in the last few years. Only single characters for necromunda but more than anyone really expected. Same for zoats. There's one running around in Blackstone fortress

    They look really good too:

    lrssnlcb9b0k.jpg

    TIME FOR A RECKONING!

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    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Karl wrote: »
    The emperor's grand plan was to remove Humanity's reliance on the warp via the imperial webway project.

    Humanity is evolving into a psychic race and if you think the fall of the eldar was bad, imagine how bad it would be when humanity fucks it all up in the same way.

    Of course, the meta commentary of the setting is that the emperor isn't nearly as smart as he thinks he is and fucks it all up.

    Maybe warn his sons about the extra dimensional psychic xenos (let's be honest, that's what the demons/gods are).

    But no, he tries to keep it all secret.

    Then idiot Magnus fucks the webway project.

    On the other hand Big E eating a thousand psykers a day (and corralling billions of low-grade psykers into short, miserable lives where they are unlikely to reproduce) probably slows humanity's psychic ascension.

    (The webway project was never going to work. Magnus was not going to be content to sit on the Golden Throne as a psychic battery to keep things stable, the Emperor certainly wasn't about to do it himself, and anyone else would have been turned to dust instantly.)

    uH3IcEi.png
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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    I doubt the emperor would have asked Magnus and then said oh, ok, when they refused to be shackled to the throne for eternity

    It wouldn't have been a choice

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    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Trying to force him would have just ended with a different Heresy.

    uH3IcEi.png
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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    As a general rule, GW is fucking terrible about numbers/scale.

    I mean, look at boltgun mags. There is no way the magazine is big enough to fit all the rounds that are supposedly in there.

    Bolters can keep firing because of their faith in the Emprah.

    I mean, it's kind of the 40K/Big E equivalent to Hanukkah's miracle of the lamp oil not running out. Or Christ feeding 5,000 people with only five loaves of bread and two fish. It would be very thematically appropriate for that to be an Act of Faith or some other kind of game mechanic for the more zealous Imperial factions/units.

    Fun fact: Jesus didn't feed 5000 people in the Miracle of the Feeding of the 5000 (5 loaves, 2 fish), nor did he feed 4000 people in the Miracle of the Feeding of the 4000 (7 loaves and some fish). (These are canonically two separate incidents, and not merely the same story repeated twice with minor variance because they had run out of ideas and budget, swearsies.)

    To elaborate, Jesus fed at least 5k/4k; he fed 5k/4k men, and an unspecified number of women and children (no one bothered to count them).

    (Learned this on QI a few years ago.)

    [Expletive deleted] on
    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    [
    I doubt the emperor would have asked Magnus and then said oh, ok, when they refused to be shackled to the throne for eternity

    It wouldn't have been a choice

    If the Emperor had set Magnus up with a Black Library Card, he'd probably have been content to sit on that throne till the end of time just reading through the deepest archives of Eldar lore and sorcery.

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    I doubt the emperor would have asked Magnus and then said oh, ok, when they refused to be shackled to the throne for eternity

    It wouldn't have been a choice

    yeah, big e absolutely did not actually give a shit about his kids or their kids

    the entire primarch and marine project was a means to an end, and he planned to exterminate them like he did the thunder warriors when he finished everything

    he tells rowboat as much when rowboat got lazarus'd and made it back to terra

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    KarlKarl Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    The emperor's grand plan was to remove Humanity's reliance on the warp via the imperial webway project.

    Humanity is evolving into a psychic race and if you think the fall of the eldar was bad, imagine how bad it would be when humanity fucks it all up in the same way.

    Of course, the meta commentary of the setting is that the emperor isn't nearly as smart as he thinks he is and fucks it all up.

    Maybe warn his sons about the extra dimensional psychic xenos (let's be honest, that's what the demons/gods are).

    But no, he tries to keep it all secret.

    Then idiot Magnus fucks the webway project.

    On the other hand Big E eating a thousand psykers a day (and corralling billions of low-grade psykers into short, miserable lives where they are unlikely to reproduce) probably slows humanity's psychic ascension.

    (The webway project was never going to work. Magnus was not going to be content to sit on the Golden Throne as a psychic battery to keep things stable, the Emperor certainly wasn't about to do it himself, and anyone else would have been turned to dust instantly.)


    As others have said, the Emperor did not factor choice into his plan.

    Because the Emperor never factors choice into any of his plans.

    He just assumes that everyone will go with it because he's so smart and how could anyone disagree.

    The man is the smartest idiot in the galaxy.

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    manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    From what I've read Ollanius is even cooler, being a guy that was around as long as Big E, with none of the psychopathy to go with it. Just an old soldier still doing his duty after everything else in his life changed around him. He's still himself.

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    KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    Anyone who wants more expanded depth of lore into the Primarchs project, perpetual, etc, should read Saturnine by Dan Annett.

    Lots of stuff explained.

    For example... (Major spoiler)
    The Primarchs being thrown across the galaxy wasn't a chaos incursion. It was sabotage by another perpetual

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Trying to convince Magnus to spend the rest of his days boring holes around in an Imperial Webway might not have been the biggest hole in Enos whole plan. Its not like it involved sitting there and thumbing through old magazines and Magnus was a relatively calm and reasonable dude until the space wolves started massacring his boys

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    Turning ollanius into some immortal superhuman is one of the worse ideas of the HH series. Just let him be a normal human soldier.

    he doesn't actually have super strength or anything

    he is literally just a guy that cannot die
    It’s not even really that he can’t die; perpetuals can totally die… they just can’t stay dead like a sensible person. They will, eventually, recover, whether they like it or not. It’s like a lich and their phylactery, only the phylactery is their own sense of self.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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    KarlKarl Registered User regular
    Magnus also liked astral plane'ing about.

    If the Emperor had bothered to explain anything, it would have gone much better.

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    LalaboxLalabox Registered User regular
    the emperor's grand fascist plans were self defeating

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    KarlKarl Registered User regular
    Lalabox wrote: »
    the emperor's grand fascist plans were self defeating

    The emperor has moved beyond such petty concerns as

    *checks notes*

    Common sense?

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    RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    One of the things I noticed is the Emp treated the legions of SM very similar to how the old AI troops were probably used, so either he just plagiarized the plan or was involved in it himself.

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    italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Elaro wrote: »
    Delduwath wrote: »
    You've also got the odd flash gitz that like to enhance their shootaz with gold and gubbinz and whatnot, and freebootaz are like orky mercenaries that will take payment and grog and stuff. I don't know how current that is in canon though, that's just bits I've read here and there.
    My understanding of the Warhammer 40k universe is that the galaxy is big enough and weird enough that somewhere there's a corner where your Personal Preferred Take On the Setting Is Happening and it's all canon anyway because what's the canon police gonna do, come to every planet and knock on every door?

    "Canon police", huh? Are the Protectors of the Plot Continuum still around?

    The Canon Police were raised during the 19th Founding in the mid-36th Millennium.

    An Ultramarines successor with a deep reverence for the Codex Astartes, they are widely known for actions in support of the Ecclesiarchy, having participated in the Zoat incursions in M38 and, more recently being part of extensive offensive actions against Imperial planets with large Abhuman populations, especially ones shorter than the average Imperial citizen...

    How long before White Dwarf steals this idea too?

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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    ElaroElaro Apologetic Registered User regular
    Karl wrote: »
    Lalabox wrote: »
    the emperor's grand fascist plans were self defeating

    The emperor has moved beyond such petty concerns as

    *checks notes*

    Common sense?

    You know that rule in the Evil Overlord's List that goes "I will have a 5-year old review my plan. If he can find a flaw in it, I will revise the plan", or somesuch? Well, if Emps is tens of thousands of years old, and Malcador several hundred, then both of them are far removed from five-year-oldedness. I'm pretty sure Emps thought Malc was his child advisor, and I don't know if Malcador had one of his own.

    Maybe that's why the Imperium is such shit. Not enough healthy families in positions of authority.

    Children's rights are human rights.
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    manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Norgoth wrote: »
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    As a general rule, GW is fucking terrible about numbers/scale.

    I mean, look at boltgun mags. There is no way the magazine is big enough to fit all the rounds that are supposedly in there.

    Bolters can keep firing because of their faith in the Emprah.

    I mean, it's kind of the 40K/Big E equivalent to Hanukkah's miracle of the lamp oil not running out. Or Christ feeding 5,000 people with only five loaves of bread and two fish. It would be very thematically appropriate for that to be an Act of Faith or some other kind of game mechanic for the more zealous Imperial factions/units.

    The real answer is somehow even stupider, the recent Dark Imperium novel decided to "answer" the ammo question by saying that marines have new clips delivered to them in tiny drop pods. Which begs the question if they can deliver constant ammo reloads with pinpoint accuracy from orbit, why not just send bombs?

    An actual answer to this question. Power fists and chainswords don't need reloading, and Space Marines themselves ARE tanks for most purposes.

    "Inaccuracy is a sin. You will always have more targets on the battlefield than available ammunition." -Scout Sergeant Cyrus

    Bullets are treated as optional for Space Marines, they're expected to do their job with or without ammunition. Bullets just let them kill faster.

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    TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Elaro wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    Lalabox wrote: »
    the emperor's grand fascist plans were self defeating

    The emperor has moved beyond such petty concerns as

    *checks notes*

    Common sense?

    You know that rule in the Evil Overlord's List that goes "I will have a 5-year old review my plan. If he can find a flaw in it, I will revise the plan", or somesuch? Well, if Emps is tens of thousands of years old, and Malcador several hundred, then both of them are far removed from five-year-oldedness. I'm pretty sure Emps thought Malc was his child advisor, and I don't know if Malcador had one of his own.

    Maybe that's why the Imperium is such shit. Not enough healthy families in positions of authority.

    This is your yearly reminder that Malcador was such a badass that he force choked Horus and nearly killed him.

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    KarlKarl Registered User regular
    Should have finished the job.

    Horus was a wanker

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    Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    Oh yeah, there’s some next level predestination shit going on with the whole Heresy thing:
    If Horus hadn’t seen that vision when he was incapacitated, he probably wouldn’t have turned. But that vision was of the future he would create by turning.
    Ditto, none of the primarchs would have been scattered if it wasn’t for that guy spirit walking back in time and fiddling with the seals. But he only did that because the scattering of the primarchs led to him, a Colchisian native, becoming a marine who could recognise the script the emperor was using for the seals.
    And the whole thing was rushed because the big E was in a panic because his own precognition showed him dying inexplicably very soon but it was the shortcuts and lack of communication induced by the rush that ultimately caused his death in the first place.

    Tzeentch is a magnificent bastard.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

    I really like the essentially dangerous nature of trying to see the future in 40k. It only drove Curze crazier, generally freaks any regular human trying to do it out, and even the Aeldari are basically only able to confirm that they lor others) are still boned; they just get more detail about how.

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    From the future visions vin the HH and how it's typically described when the eldar use it it seems like human scryers seem to see a future and can try to work towards or against it while the farseers see a bunch of possible timelines and have to guess/roll a dice which action leads to which strand.

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    Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    honovere wrote: »
    From the future visions vin the HH and how it's typically described when the eldar use it it seems like human scryers seem to see a future and can try to work towards or against it while the farseers see a bunch of possible timelines and have to guess/roll a dice which action leads to which strand.

    I think they get a pretty good idea of how to get to the destination they choose buuut… most Farseers can’t see more than a few decades ahead across a limited volume of space. Also there’s hundreds of them, all with slightly different ideas of what “the best outcome” actually is, so they have to constantly recast their divinations or ‘lose their place’ and get blindsided by something.

    Eldrad is allegedly someone that can see the whole galaxy, centuries ahead, and does his thing based on that. Except that most non-Ulthwé (and even a whole bunch of them) Eldar think he’s either making that shit up to make himself seem better, or that he’s sailing too close to the wind and letting Chaos influence his Sight, because sometimes he will expend Eldar lives to achieve some inscrutable purpose that might even look like he’s helping the mon-keigh or something… now all this Ynnari jibber jabber really hasn’t helped him in that regard, since he, y’know, broke a Craftworld in half.

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    Elaro wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    Lalabox wrote: »
    the emperor's grand fascist plans were self defeating

    The emperor has moved beyond such petty concerns as

    *checks notes*

    Common sense?

    You know that rule in the Evil Overlord's List that goes "I will have a 5-year old review my plan. If he can find a flaw in it, I will revise the plan", or somesuch? Well, if Emps is tens of thousands of years old, and Malcador several hundred, then both of them are far removed from five-year-oldedness. I'm pretty sure Emps thought Malc was his child advisor, and I don't know if Malcador had one of his own.

    Maybe that's why the Imperium is such shit. Not enough healthy families in positions of authority.

    Sure, but Malcs "child" advisor was still a geriatric who's coming up on triple digits.
    By the time you actually get a five year old in place to review the plans, you're so far removed from the actual person making the plans that the communication gets too muddled to be of use.

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    SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    New models!



    9madmz1fqjm0.jpg

    This veteran witch hunter has seen hundreds of witches, heretics, and living dead burned at the stake during his illustrious career. Armed with a holy pistol and his trusty rune-etched broadsword, Galen ven Denst can slay the vilest creatures and even banish endless spells with a determined strike from his blessed weapons. He may be long in the tooth but, make no mistake, nothing gets between this grim huntsman and his quarry.

    In recent years, Galen ven Denst rarely works alone – he’s often accompanied by his fellow witch hunter, who also happens to be his daughter, Doralia ven Denst.

    w1148u06jqdq.jpg

    SharpyVII on
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Those are real nice minis

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Those are real nice minis

    Lacking somewhat in the traditionally-excellent hat area, for witch hunters, but very good sculpts.

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    The von Dentists

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Those are real nice minis

    Lacking somewhat in the traditionally-excellent hat area, for witch hunters, but very good sculpts.

    There's an alternate be-hatted head for the daughter:
    0WSI3rV3cjinwNBw.jpg

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    One of my favorite things about Warhammer (as a casual fan) is that I'm never 100% sure whether models like that are 40k or AoS. Torch and crossbow have me pretty sure AoS but if you told me there was an Imperium order that used flintlock pistols for hunting demons I'd buy it.

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Yeah its be trivially easy to modify the old man for 40k

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    The day of ascension draws near!

    The Loving Parents genestealer cult were originally the crew of the imperial freighter now renamed The Star Children's Gift, travelling the galaxy in search of their divine saviors (they don't know where the 'nids are and are too few to draw 'nid attention). They occansionally make planetfall to "recruit", trade, or leave "presents" of purestrains. They are fanatically obsessed with increasing their numbers.

    Group shot of my GSC KT:
    zo4rt09q50dg.jpg
    • Patriarch "The Antediluvian"
    • Magos "Mother" Seimona
    • Neophyte Leader Holluna Gorl
    • Purestrain "Junior"
    • Metamorph Leader Kreena Drevender
    • Heavy Stubber Neophyte Gunner Steen Stennvar
    • Icon Metamorph Rauss Rezzekh
    • Rock saw Acolyte Kol Madrach
    • Metamorphs Nasser Drevender, Davon Gardlinger, and Ghaskin Black
    • Grenade launcher Neophyte Gunner Basc Tarnright
    • Flamer Neophyte Gunner Xanda Rezzekh
    • Neophytes Mallicka Helm, Aldren Kreel, and Michona Black
    (The actual 100 pt list skips the two commanders and two of the metamorphs.)

    Individual pics in the spoiler:
    bzoalfc1gnp1.jpg3oj4xjhu8wke.jpgrfjf1jxlw0cm.jpgd9zvfyxbvycy.jpgzr27nple378g.jpg9tgyhp9kgl11.jpgofz6vzrch4qk.jpgha2nw87q0gii.jpgopbla3gr9mqg.jpg5zae6xsfhf6y.jpg2603ghkdllla.jpgfrtim0jm6hwg.jpghsjfvcwcrxff.jpgp9ooseudeeny.jpglnda8d5qu2wg.jpgv65s3ht1ka3a.jpg

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Yeah slap a bolt pistol in his hands and maybe replace the head with something that has a cybernetic eye or something

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    I love names on bases.

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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    Carpy wrote: »
    One of my favorite things about Warhammer (as a casual fan) is that I'm never 100% sure whether models like that are 40k or AoS. Torch and crossbow have me pretty sure AoS but if you told me there was an Imperium order that used flintlock pistols for hunting demons I'd buy it.

    40K tech being as wacky as it is I'm sure there's flintlock, matchlock and wheellock bolters out there. Somehow.

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    PhotosaurusPhotosaurus Bay Area, CARegistered User regular
    40k already has something that looks more or less exactly like what you'd expect a grim-dark sci-fi flintlock to look like.
    99800107016_InquisitorInfernoPistolPoerSwordNEW_01.jpg

    "If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
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    GR_ZombieGR_Zombie Krillin It Registered User regular
    Fire and melee are canonically more effective against daemons than bolter and bombs, so flintlocks ain’t that much of a stretch.

    04xkcuvaav19.png
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