It's strange that they are focusing on ray tracing. If you asked me what the biggest issue with this generations graphics are, I'd say it's human modeling. Playing through my backlog, I finished ME:A not long ago and I'm currently playing through Deus Ex: MD. Both have amazing textures and lighting. You can see the light streaming in through Adam's apartment windows with dust floating around in just the light streams. It's crazy good looking. But where both games fall down is with human modeling. Hair, skin textures, animations, etc. Everything feels a little last gen.
I have no idea what technology would help with that, I think I saw they mentioned Ray-tracing will help (skin and eye translucency), if so, I'd love to see more demo's of that in practice. It's interesting that the BF5 demo, the human models looked pretty much the same except that you could see reflections in their eyes (I bet you'll be able to see that during a MP match lol).
Do we have any idea for price ranges of the new cards?
MSRP is going to be as follows:
2070: $500
2080: $700
2080 Ti: $1000
Preorder prices/founders cards are even more expensive.
2070: $600
2080: $800
2080 Ti: $1200
I urge you peeps to watch at least part of JayzTwoCents' vid about the pricing tiers. He makes a good point. Nvidia made a change with the 20XX generation, that I agree with (I agree with Jay) and speculated previously. The 2080 Ti is the next Titan. I'm not saying that to imply there will be a Ti*2 part in between those two tiers at some point, but it gives a better explanation of the tier pricing.
Yeah. I watched that last night. He also goes into a little bit why Nvidia is hyping ray tracing without mentioning other performance data.
(Basically, real time ray tracing is a pretty big fucking deal. But, it will still be new and so performance will not be quite the same as we have now.)
The future of GPUs certainly looks promising, be we aren't quite there yet. I'm definitely not going to worry about it until it becomes time to upgrade.
One thing to remember is that just based off of raw CUDA count, and clock speed, and memory improvements, even without raytracing the new cards will be better than the cards they are replacing. add in raytracing, and if developers actually choose to implement it in any meaningful way you'll see the performance delta increase.
That being said, I'd gladly trade raytracing for a $100 cheaper card. If a 2070 without raytracing had the performance of a 1080 and was a $375-$400 card, I'd buy that over spending $500 on a 2070 that has raytracing that may or may not be implemented in games.
But the more likely scenario is that either the 2060 won't have raytracing, or nvidia is really going to push the technology to try to get developers to use it. That is not at all a guarantee.
a 1060 (6gb) is faster than my 970 and is a great card.
also my 970 still runs everything at at high or ultra ato 1080p with no problems
I don't think this is neccessarily true, re: 970 vs 1060. I remember looking hard at bench marks when building my new PC -- I had a 970 and was still considering sticking to 1080P resolution.
Part of me wonders if they will take some of the binned cores that had trouble with ray tracing and use them for a 2050 Ti or 20XX "LT" (light?) for a lower price tier.
With new tech like this, I'm sure they have problematic chips sitting around.
Mugsley on
0
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Sure except his budget is $280-400 (preferably lower), so suggesting a card that can be bought for ~$600 if you can get a deal is not very useful. A 1060(6gb)/RX580 and up is probably enough for gaming at 1080p so I would start there and maybe go up one notch depending on how much you want to spend.
Edit: a 1050Ti or equivalent will probably also be fine even, if you want to really save cash, I wouldn't go any lower than that though.
The idea of 4k gaming is definitely appealing to me in general but lower intensity stuff like RPGs not FPSs. Is there a site that tracks the pricing of PC components over time?
PC Part Picker has price history for given components, but I don't think it has anything for general categories. I've never looked so I could be wrong.
I'm toying with the idea of upgrading my monitor situation. I currently have mismatch 24" monitors (Asus and LG). I'm thinking I will replace one of them with a 27", 1440p. 4K isn't very important to me, but I have heard higher refresh rates are amazing. Does anyone have suggestions? I'm willing to be patient until black friday but I want to look into options now.
The computer is a i5-3570k, 16GB ram, GTX 1070.
e: I should add, I barely know what are important things I need to mention so if I have left any specs out, let me know. My monitor purchases have usually involved looking at what seems like a good price and buying it impulsively.
Anyone know when we'll actually get some reviews on the new Nvidia cards? Do outlets have the cards and there is an embargo or are we not at that point yet?
I think it'll be a couple of weeks, but likely just before or on September 20th when the cards are officially released. There's a good chance the media has cards in for review or will soon, but they're under embargo until whenever Nvidia wants the reviews to come out.
So I hear crypto is crashing and the next gen of GPU's is on the horizon which has or will bring down the price of the current gen. Can I get some recommendations on best value for a middle class card? I'd like to keep below $280 but I know that's a lot harder to do than it used to be. I'd put a theoretical max at $400 but only if it's a really huge discount.
God I miss the old days when god cards were only $500 and you could get 80% of their performance for half the price.
It's at the top of your proposed budget, but Dell has a 1070 Ti for $390:
Anyone know when we'll actually get some reviews on the new Nvidia cards? Do outlets have the cards and there is an embargo or are we not at that point yet?
They don't release until September 20th, any embargo probably won't lift until the 13th at the earliest.
I'm toying with the idea of upgrading my monitor situation. I currently have mismatch 24" monitors (Asus and LG). I'm thinking I will replace one of them with a 27", 1440p. 4K isn't very important to me, but I have heard higher refresh rates are amazing. Does anyone have suggestions? I'm willing to be patient until black friday but I want to look into options now.
The computer is a i5-3570k, 16GB ram, GTX 1070.
e: I should add, I barely know what are important things I need to mention so if I have left any specs out, let me know. My monitor purchases have usually involved looking at what seems like a good price and buying it impulsively.
I guess it depends on the type of games you play. If you play a lot of online gaming that's fast moving like Overwatch, it's probably worth looking into. For me, since I play mostly offline, I wanted the best picture I could get and went with a OLED TV.
I'm toying with the idea of upgrading my monitor situation. I currently have mismatch 24" monitors (Asus and LG). I'm thinking I will replace one of them with a 27", 1440p. 4K isn't very important to me, but I have heard higher refresh rates are amazing. Does anyone have suggestions? I'm willing to be patient until black friday but I want to look into options now.
The computer is a i5-3570k, 16GB ram, GTX 1070.
e: I should add, I barely know what are important things I need to mention so if I have left any specs out, let me know. My monitor purchases have usually involved looking at what seems like a good price and buying it impulsively.
I guess it depends on the type of games you play. If you play a lot of online gaming that's fast moving like Overwatch, it's probably worth looking into. For me, since I play mostly offline, I wanted the best picture I could get and went with a OLED TV.
This will be used almost entirely for gaming.
0
HeatwaveCome, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered Userregular
I don't watch Jayztwocents anymore because he's a sponsored shill. So I'm not going to bother with that video on why people should buy a card for technology that will likely have better gaming results in the GPU generation AFTER the 20X0's.
I don't watch Jayztwocents anymore because he's a sponsored shill. So I'm not going to bother with that video on why people should buy a card for technology that will likely have better gaming results in the GPU generation AFTER the 20X0's.
He mostly says preordering anything is bullshit, and fps is not the only measure of what the cards are doing, but we need to see the cards first, especially working on finalized drivers on a finalized game. (Apparently there was a build of the next Tomb Raider that ran at 30fps or whatever)
+1
Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
I don't watch Jayztwocents anymore because he's a sponsored shill. So I'm not going to bother with that video on why people should buy a card for technology that will likely have better gaming results in the GPU generation AFTER the 20X0's.
....
He tells people to wait and hypothesis that the ti model is this generation 'titan' model.
One thing that made me go wtf in one of Jayz recent videos was that he was talking about how you could speed up old hardware with an SSD, and he was focused purely on the boot time, which of course is going to be faster with SSD over platter drives. And he goes to the trouble of timing it with his phone stop watch.....but he leaves the PXE boot in the boot order before the SSD and even points it out and acts as if that's normal.
Aside from that one moment though, at the very minimum, his videos have inspired me to do an extreme watercooling build when the funds materialize. I appreciate that he occasionally does "back to basics" videos for people like me who are newbies to watercooling. But hey, he's not the only youtuber I watch either. And as others have said. His advice was to wait for the benchmarks and not to preorder.....which is sound advice.
I don't watch Jayztwocents anymore because he's a sponsored shill.
Literally everyone is a sponsored shill.
Is there one youtube/tv/magazine/website that doesn't get $$$ for sponsorships?
It's basically the business model for Youtube channels now. Money from views is very little of their income. The majority comes from being paid by companies to runs ads after they do their intro, other forms of sponsorship, merch, and Patreon. When I was at the ModMyMods store/warehouse having them work on my computer they talked about running an ad on Jayz's channel (and computer/watercool focused channels in general and taking what they say about some things with a skeptical eye). For them it was a lot of money (I don't remember if they said it helped them very much) but for big companies the thousands of dollars they spend on ads with him and other channels is just part of their multimillion dollar marketing budget. A 30 second ad on big channels can be a couple of thousand dollars.
Most channels are now pretty upfront when they post a video that is entirely sponsored content such as Bitwit's recent video about Coolermaster mechanical keyboards being at select Best Buy stores. Some are less so but I'd like to think my bullshit radar is keen enough to know when a video is something I can take seriously or one that's purely for entertainment purposes. One of the few channels I go to for advice about stuff I'd actually buy is Gamers Nexus. Channels like Jay's, Bitwit, Paul's Hardware are more because I like they guys and their personalities, and I'm not going to them for the detailed, measured, and quantified reviews. Although they do some of that but not to the detailed extent that Gamers Nexus does because that's what they specialize in.
I'm definitely not a expert on the juggernaut Youtube media economy, but this seems like a sort of inevitable consequence of Youtube's original position of "Man, is there anything lamer than Grandpa TV! Can you believe they watch ads? Like Grandpas?" followed by them creating a massive advertising system based on exceedingly complex predictive logarithms so they can put commercials in all of their content, but "smarter". And when it turned out this system wasn't somehow magically different and perfect, the people dependent on a potion of that income had to bypass Youtube's payments mostly or entirely.
I don't watch Youtube for Youtube ads, but I do watch it for everyone else's ads, and have subsequently blocked all of theirs for the ads I want (via MyTube app or a simple ad blocker in Vivaldi).
It's strange that they are focusing on ray tracing. If you asked me what the biggest issue with this generations graphics are, I'd say it's human modeling. Playing through my backlog, I finished ME:A not long ago and I'm currently playing through Deus Ex: MD. Both have amazing textures and lighting. You can see the light streaming in through Adam's apartment windows with dust floating around in just the light streams. It's crazy good looking. But where both games fall down is with human modeling. Hair, skin textures, animations, etc. Everything feels a little last gen.
I have no idea what technology would help with that, I think I saw they mentioned Ray-tracing will help (skin and eye translucency), if so, I'd love to see more demo's of that in practice. It's interesting that the BF5 demo, the human models looked pretty much the same except that you could see reflections in their eyes (I bet you'll be able to see that during a MP match lol).
Ray Tracing will help with sub surface scattering to give more realistic skin tones (but will be dependant on devs putting the effort in). Hair I'm not as sure on. Some games do it okay, some it's just awful. Certain hair styles are also just less of a pain to do as well. A tight pony tail is relatively straight forward, but unrestrained flowing hair is fairly resource intensive for a low return on realism. If the RTX free's up enough other power to make that more manageable, you might see gains in that department.
Moving on to animations, the limiter here is they just take ridiculous amounts of time. But, honestly, the bigger issue? Most people even in the animation industry suck at it. When I was in school, just one other of my classmates actually had a solid feel and eye for proper movement and timing. And neither of us actually wound up doing anything industry related because the intro pay is so awful. It's a shit gig that is soul crushing, long hours to do menial tweaks over and over again, and the really, really competent people go become tech artists or get into advertising or something else entirely unrelated because it's a damn hard industry to break into unless you want to earn 30k a year animating backgrounds in shitty SyFy channel movies.
I don't watch Jayztwocents anymore because he's a sponsored shill.
Literally everyone is a sponsored shill.
Is there one youtube/tv/magazine/website that doesn't get $$$ for sponsorships?
It's basically the business model for Youtube channels now. Money from views is very little of their income. The majority comes from being paid by companies to runs ads after they do their intro, other forms of sponsorship, merch, and Patreon. When I was at the ModMyMods store/warehouse having them work on my computer they talked about running an ad on Jayz's channel (and computer/watercool focused channels in general and taking what they say about some things with a skeptical eye). For them it was a lot of money (I don't remember if they said it helped them very much) but for big companies the thousands of dollars they spend on ads with him and other channels is just part of their multimillion dollar marketing budget. A 30 second ad on big channels can be a couple of thousand dollars.
Most channels are now pretty upfront when they post a video that is entirely sponsored content such as Bitwit's recent video about Coolermaster mechanical keyboards being at select Best Buy stores. Some are less so but I'd like to think my bullshit radar is keen enough to know when a video is something I can take seriously or one that's purely for entertainment purposes. One of the few channels I go to for advice about stuff I'd actually buy is Gamers Nexus. Channels like Jay's, Bitwit, Paul's Hardware are more because I like they guys and their personalities, and I'm not going to them for the detailed, measured, and quantified reviews. Although they do some of that but not to the detailed extent that Gamers Nexus does because that's what they specialize in.
I read detailed reviews when I'm looking to buy pc hardware, but those channels are good for one thing: pc cases. Since buying a case in a b&m store is just not an option for me, the videos of case builds and the hardwarecanucks case review videos are the next best thing to looking at the case in person.
Also that GOG tweet made me laugh out loud at work. I needed that.
+3
That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
I always forget that Youtube runs actual ads beyond the sponsored content. I used to use an Adblocker but my Google Music subscription also gets me Youtube Red. I can't even remember the last time I saw an ad before a video.
I always forget that Youtube runs actual ads beyond the sponsored content. I used to use an Adblocker but my Google Music subscription also gets me Youtube Red. I can't even remember the last time I saw an ad before a video.
I turn off my adblocker on youtube. It just feels wrong.
From the perspective of someone who wanted to try out watercooling, I have to give it up to Jayztwocents. He had a big catalogue of very relevant videos and for me the old addage, seeing is believing, definitely helped me try it out with some modicum of confidence.
+1
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited August 2018
If you're watching a YouTube channel or Twitch stream from someone who does it for a living, you're watching a paid shill. Some of them (like Steve at GN) are good at separating and labeling their shilling from their professional opinions, others not so much. Steve is also very good about blasting a company if they pull some bullshit even if they are paying him or have paid him in the past.
HeatwaveCome, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered Userregular
Part of why I singled out Jay as opposed to Steve from GN is because Jay can sometimes be too light in his criticisms of certain companies, where as Steve will tear a company apart.
I just watched that video of Jay's and while he does advise people to wait, he also tries to justify the price by claiming it's a name shuffle and the ray tracing is still an amazing feature for the GPUs.
That feature might be amazing in the future, but so far it has yet to prove itself worthy of the price increase for consumer GPUs.
But I will cut him a bit of slack for still urging buyers to wait for in hand reviews.
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Steve is probably the most trustworthy Youtuber for tech that I've found.
None of the entertainment value of the techbros at LTT, but I don't watch their reviews as much as I just like seeing the weird shit they do. They had to put together a PC with no internet usage, even email, and it was quite entertaining tbh.
I always forget that Youtube runs actual ads beyond the sponsored content. I used to use an Adblocker but my Google Music subscription also gets me Youtube Red. I can't even remember the last time I saw an ad before a video.
I turn off my adblocker on youtube. It just feels wrong.
I haven't turned mine off in a while for YouTube, but last time i ever had it off i remember ads running mid video, and small pop up boxes at the bottom of the view port. That means they're interrupting content, so I don't want any part of it. Not to mention so many people have extra sponsors they have spots for in the video itself, so i assume they're paying more for total views than anything.
Posts
I have no idea what technology would help with that, I think I saw they mentioned Ray-tracing will help (skin and eye translucency), if so, I'd love to see more demo's of that in practice. It's interesting that the BF5 demo, the human models looked pretty much the same except that you could see reflections in their eyes (I bet you'll be able to see that during a MP match lol).
I urge you peeps to watch at least part of JayzTwoCents' vid about the pricing tiers. He makes a good point. Nvidia made a change with the 20XX generation, that I agree with (I agree with Jay) and speculated previously. The 2080 Ti is the next Titan. I'm not saying that to imply there will be a Ti*2 part in between those two tiers at some point, but it gives a better explanation of the tier pricing.
Skip to 7:30 in the below vid:
(Basically, real time ray tracing is a pretty big fucking deal. But, it will still be new and so performance will not be quite the same as we have now.)
The future of GPUs certainly looks promising, be we aren't quite there yet. I'm definitely not going to worry about it until it becomes time to upgrade.
That being said, I'd gladly trade raytracing for a $100 cheaper card. If a 2070 without raytracing had the performance of a 1080 and was a $375-$400 card, I'd buy that over spending $500 on a 2070 that has raytracing that may or may not be implemented in games.
But the more likely scenario is that either the 2060 won't have raytracing, or nvidia is really going to push the technology to try to get developers to use it. That is not at all a guarantee.
I don't think this is neccessarily true, re: 970 vs 1060. I remember looking hard at bench marks when building my new PC -- I had a 970 and was still considering sticking to 1080P resolution.
With new tech like this, I'm sure they have problematic chips sitting around.
The idea of 4k gaming is definitely appealing to me in general but lower intensity stuff like RPGs not FPSs. Is there a site that tracks the pricing of PC components over time?
The computer is a i5-3570k, 16GB ram, GTX 1070.
e: I should add, I barely know what are important things I need to mention so if I have left any specs out, let me know. My monitor purchases have usually involved looking at what seems like a good price and buying it impulsively.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
It's at the top of your proposed budget, but Dell has a 1070 Ti for $390:
https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/accessories/apd/a9972110?ref=1689_koa_title
They don't release until September 20th, any embargo probably won't lift until the 13th at the earliest.
I guess it depends on the type of games you play. If you play a lot of online gaming that's fast moving like Overwatch, it's probably worth looking into. For me, since I play mostly offline, I wanted the best picture I could get and went with a OLED TV.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
This will be used almost entirely for gaming.
Steam / Origin & Wii U: Heatwave111 / FC: 4227-1965-3206 / Battle.net: Heatwave#11356
He mostly says preordering anything is bullshit, and fps is not the only measure of what the cards are doing, but we need to see the cards first, especially working on finalized drivers on a finalized game. (Apparently there was a build of the next Tomb Raider that ran at 30fps or whatever)
....
He tells people to wait and hypothesis that the ti model is this generation 'titan' model.
Aside from that one moment though, at the very minimum, his videos have inspired me to do an extreme watercooling build when the funds materialize. I appreciate that he occasionally does "back to basics" videos for people like me who are newbies to watercooling. But hey, he's not the only youtuber I watch either. And as others have said. His advice was to wait for the benchmarks and not to preorder.....which is sound advice.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Literally everyone is a sponsored shill.
Is there one youtube/tv/magazine/website that doesn't get $$$ for sponsorships?
It's basically the business model for Youtube channels now. Money from views is very little of their income. The majority comes from being paid by companies to runs ads after they do their intro, other forms of sponsorship, merch, and Patreon. When I was at the ModMyMods store/warehouse having them work on my computer they talked about running an ad on Jayz's channel (and computer/watercool focused channels in general and taking what they say about some things with a skeptical eye). For them it was a lot of money (I don't remember if they said it helped them very much) but for big companies the thousands of dollars they spend on ads with him and other channels is just part of their multimillion dollar marketing budget. A 30 second ad on big channels can be a couple of thousand dollars.
Most channels are now pretty upfront when they post a video that is entirely sponsored content such as Bitwit's recent video about Coolermaster mechanical keyboards being at select Best Buy stores. Some are less so but I'd like to think my bullshit radar is keen enough to know when a video is something I can take seriously or one that's purely for entertainment purposes. One of the few channels I go to for advice about stuff I'd actually buy is Gamers Nexus. Channels like Jay's, Bitwit, Paul's Hardware are more because I like they guys and their personalities, and I'm not going to them for the detailed, measured, and quantified reviews. Although they do some of that but not to the detailed extent that Gamers Nexus does because that's what they specialize in.
Suck it, Google Alphabet.
Ray Tracing will help with sub surface scattering to give more realistic skin tones (but will be dependant on devs putting the effort in). Hair I'm not as sure on. Some games do it okay, some it's just awful. Certain hair styles are also just less of a pain to do as well. A tight pony tail is relatively straight forward, but unrestrained flowing hair is fairly resource intensive for a low return on realism. If the RTX free's up enough other power to make that more manageable, you might see gains in that department.
Moving on to animations, the limiter here is they just take ridiculous amounts of time. But, honestly, the bigger issue? Most people even in the animation industry suck at it. When I was in school, just one other of my classmates actually had a solid feel and eye for proper movement and timing. And neither of us actually wound up doing anything industry related because the intro pay is so awful. It's a shit gig that is soul crushing, long hours to do menial tweaks over and over again, and the really, really competent people go become tech artists or get into advertising or something else entirely unrelated because it's a damn hard industry to break into unless you want to earn 30k a year animating backgrounds in shitty SyFy channel movies.
I read detailed reviews when I'm looking to buy pc hardware, but those channels are good for one thing: pc cases. Since buying a case in a b&m store is just not an option for me, the videos of case builds and the hardwarecanucks case review videos are the next best thing to looking at the case in person.
Also that GOG tweet made me laugh out loud at work. I needed that.
I turn off my adblocker on youtube. It just feels wrong.
I just watched that video of Jay's and while he does advise people to wait, he also tries to justify the price by claiming it's a name shuffle and the ray tracing is still an amazing feature for the GPUs.
That feature might be amazing in the future, but so far it has yet to prove itself worthy of the price increase for consumer GPUs.
But I will cut him a bit of slack for still urging buyers to wait for in hand reviews.
Steam / Origin & Wii U: Heatwave111 / FC: 4227-1965-3206 / Battle.net: Heatwave#11356
None of the entertainment value of the techbros at LTT, but I don't watch their reviews as much as I just like seeing the weird shit they do. They had to put together a PC with no internet usage, even email, and it was quite entertaining tbh.
For actual hardware, Steve is the man.
I haven't turned mine off in a while for YouTube, but last time i ever had it off i remember ads running mid video, and small pop up boxes at the bottom of the view port. That means they're interrupting content, so I don't want any part of it. Not to mention so many people have extra sponsors they have spots for in the video itself, so i assume they're paying more for total views than anything.