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[Punisher] Marvel Murder Machine (Spoilers)

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited January 26
    Yeah, Bernthal's face and the silence that followed after he rescues the girl in the bathroom really sold the "things-were-going-so-well-but-now-I've-murdered-three-people" vibe in the first episode.

    RT800 on
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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I'm near the end of a re-watch on Season 1 and the ground Season 2 retreads for whatever reason was handled way, way better the first time around.
    Particularly Castle realizing who he is. They did this in season 1, when Agent Orange is laying into him and he's having those visions of his wife. Artfully speaking, that got the message across in a more clever way compared to season 2 where he literally just tells everyone "I went to my wife's grave and she said this." I guess not enough people picked up on it the first time around so they needed to be handheld to that message.

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  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    I guess, having watched it all now, I'd say the actors did a good job with the mess they were given. But basically everything about the plot was impressively unbelievable.

    dispatch.o
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited January 27
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    As far as the characterization (I think Bernthal got it exactly right in his acting, even this season and the biggest thing that sticks out to me is in the bar fight early in the season) I think any writers for a Punisher show should really spend some time around Marine grunts. Frank Castle is supposed to be an infantry officer who went through indoc for Recon and ended up a platoon leader in a Force Recon Company. He's going to be aggressive.

    They can't make him too aggressive or it'll turn off audiences, since they want to relate and sympathise with people. They touched a bit on this
    when he was abusive with Amy, but they couldn't make him like all the time.

    Harry Dresden on
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    No one should relate or sympathize with The Punisher in the way they were attempting to force though. I'll grant you the first half of the first season during flashbacks, but they really really tried to oversell his humanity.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited January 27
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    No one should relate or sympathize with The Punisher in the way they were attempting to force though. I'll grant you the first half of the first season during flashbacks, but they really really tried to oversell his humanity.

    The Punisher is a person. While he has been written as a force of nature that characterisation is suited to an antagonistic role like in Daredevil and they still gave him depth and made him sympathetic. They can't do that with him where he's the lead in every scene, that's why they toned him down for the second season.

    Harry Dresden on
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    No one should relate or sympathize with The Punisher in the way they were attempting to force though. I'll grant you the first half of the first season during flashbacks, but they really really tried to oversell his humanity.

    The Punisher is a person. While he has been written as a force of nature that characterisation is suited to an antagonistic role like in Daredevil and they still gave him depth and made him sympathetic. They can't do that with him where he's the lead in every scene, that's why they toned him down for the second season.

    The 2000s era Punisher movies did a good job of making Frank sympathetic without also trying too hard to make him relatable.

    camo_sig.png
    NSDFRand
  • PeccaviPeccavi Registered User regular
    Hey, it's Fusco!

    BethrynForarAtlas in ChainsZampanovAsthariel
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    No one should relate or sympathize with The Punisher in the way they were attempting to force though. I'll grant you the first half of the first season during flashbacks, but they really really tried to oversell his humanity.

    The Punisher is a person. While he has been written as a force of nature that characterisation is suited to an antagonistic role like in Daredevil and they still gave him depth and made him sympathetic. They can't do that with him where he's the lead in every scene, that's why they toned him down for the second season.

    The 2000s era Punisher movies did a good job of making Frank sympathetic without also trying too hard to make him relatable.

    The Thomas Jane punisher is still my favourite. The Dirty Laundry short just rubbed salt into the wound that we won’t get another one.

    NSDFRandWhiteZinfandelenc0re
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    edited January 29
    -Loki- wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    No one should relate or sympathize with The Punisher in the way they were attempting to force though. I'll grant you the first half of the first season during flashbacks, but they really really tried to oversell his humanity.

    The Punisher is a person. While he has been written as a force of nature that characterisation is suited to an antagonistic role like in Daredevil and they still gave him depth and made him sympathetic. They can't do that with him where he's the lead in every scene, that's why they toned him down for the second season.

    The 2000s era Punisher movies did a good job of making Frank sympathetic without also trying too hard to make him relatable.

    The Thomas Jane punisher is still my favourite. The Dirty Laundry short just rubbed salt into the wound that we won’t get another one.

    At the time I was kind of salty that they recast Jane for Punisher Warzone. I had really enjoyed the 2004 punisher movie and really wanted to see more of him. The thing is that Ray Stevens play the character so well and Warzone was a damn good movie. He's the only actor so far to get a proper Punisher story. They didn't have to shoehorn in an origin story and started the movie with a well established Punisher taking care of business. Casting Newman as Micro was a stroke of genius. I read a lot of of MAX comics ater Warzone came out and developed a real appreciation for the movie. Warzone's Jigsaw was a million times better than the Netflix version. Dominic West is a great actor and brought much needed clout to the movie.

    Edit: I think the artists for MAX started drawing Punisher to look like Ray Stevenson around the same time.

    k90bnd5epwzs.png

    That_Guy on
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    NSDFRandTexiKen
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Alright, so what does everyone think of the Dolph Lundgren Punisher movie? I really didn't like it. IIRC he didn't even dawn the trademark white skull.

    camo_sig.png
  • Capt HowdyCapt Howdy Registered User regular
    Loved the Lundgren Punisher flick.

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  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Registered User regular
    edited January 29
    It's more of just an 80s action movie though. There's not really a whole lot of "Punisher" to it.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    TexiKen
  • Capt HowdyCapt Howdy Registered User regular
    His sewer monologues were awesome, the violence was perfect, the only thing missing was the skull.

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Frank needed to be a lot more aggressive towards the end. All the bad guys should have been dead few episodes sooner and mainly weren't just because he didn't end them, though at least he returned to form in the end. Stop putting Amy in harms way everyone, though, she doesn't have the instincts for it.

    What was so extra bad about Madani shooting Mahoney? He snuck up on her when she thought her life was in danger. I mean she did tons of shit that would get her fired, but that specific thing is pretty low on the "What the fuck was she thinking?" meter.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • KadokenKadoken One batch, two batch, poyo and hIIIIII Registered User regular
    It was kind of Archer-y in how both kind of blew that off.

    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
    Mine TTRPG blog http://darkheresychainsofmalice.blogspot.com/
    WhiteZinfandelMcFodder
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    What was so extra bad about Madani shooting Mahoney? He snuck up on her when she thought her life was in danger. I mean she did tons of shit that would get her fired, but that specific thing is pretty low on the "What the fuck was she thinking?" meter.

    Law enforcement is trained to determine friend from foe before pulling the trigger, for exactly this reason. Despite all evidence to the contrary, Madani is a federal cop.

    She could have KILLED Mahoney (and would have if he wasn't wearing a vest), and it's okay just because he wasn't loud enough while examining a crime scene? What?

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  • KadokenKadoken One batch, two batch, poyo and hIIIIII Registered User regular
    edited February 4
    Whoever said they represented the Snap is a goose and I believed you and how could you

    Also the journalist that said this season would be an adaption of The Slavers from MAX was also a big liar.

    Kadoken on
    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    I feel like Season 2 of Pun Pun would be legit improved if it were set during the Snap times. Would give it a lot more flavour.

    We just got up to
    Frank accidentally murdering those women. That was a good scene. The season has been light on those, but it feels like it's finally going somewhere.

    I don't care about Pilgrim at aaaaaall.

    Oh brilliant
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    That scene was horrible due to the setup. If they wanted to do it they could have done it a looooooot better.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
    Dark Raven XDracomicron
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    I mostly just appreciated Bernthal's acting there. Could say that for a lot of the series, I guess! His breakdown was really well done. "wait wait wait wait" especially

    Oh brilliant
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Registered User regular
    Just finished this last night. I still think that Bernthal is the best Punisher we could hope for but people are right that the show really fell apart in the last couple of episodes. That final warehouse scene followed by the Stan Lee tribute was Family Guy levels of ridiculous.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    What was so extra bad about Madani shooting Mahoney? He snuck up on her when she thought her life was in danger. I mean she did tons of shit that would get her fired, but that specific thing is pretty low on the "What the fuck was she thinking?" meter.

    Law enforcement is trained to determine friend from foe before pulling the trigger, for exactly this reason. Despite all evidence to the contrary, Madani is a federal cop.

    She could have KILLED Mahoney (and would have if he wasn't wearing a vest), and it's okay just because he wasn't loud enough while examining a crime scene? What?

    Not to mention shes Special Agent in Charge in freakin NYC. Yet she never seems to do any actual work or even go into the office anymore.

    they frankly would've been better off having her be a burnout after last season and working as a loose cannon like Frank

    Dracomicrondispatch.o
  • WinklebottomWinklebottom Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    What was so extra bad about Madani shooting Mahoney? He snuck up on her when she thought her life was in danger. I mean she did tons of shit that would get her fired, but that specific thing is pretty low on the "What the fuck was she thinking?" meter.

    Law enforcement is trained to determine friend from foe before pulling the trigger, for exactly this reason. Despite all evidence to the contrary, Madani is a federal cop.

    She could have KILLED Mahoney (and would have if he wasn't wearing a vest), and it's okay just because he wasn't loud enough while examining a crime scene? What?

    Not to mention shes Special Agent in Charge in freakin NYC. Yet she never seems to do any actual work or even go into the office anymore.

    they frankly would've been better off having her be a burnout after last season and working as a loose cannon like Frank

    They could have easily still had her on medical leave or had the FBI shrink not sign off on her returning to duty, especially with her obsession. It felt like they found out midway through writing it, that it was there last season, so I had to have Jigsaw's story take over or something.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    What was so extra bad about Madani shooting Mahoney? He snuck up on her when she thought her life was in danger. I mean she did tons of shit that would get her fired, but that specific thing is pretty low on the "What the fuck was she thinking?" meter.

    Law enforcement is trained to determine friend from foe before pulling the trigger, for exactly this reason. Despite all evidence to the contrary, Madani is a federal cop.

    She could have KILLED Mahoney (and would have if he wasn't wearing a vest), and it's okay just because he wasn't loud enough while examining a crime scene? What?

    Not to mention shes Special Agent in Charge in freakin NYC. Yet she never seems to do any actual work or even go into the office anymore.

    they frankly would've been better off having her be a burnout after last season and working as a loose cannon like Frank

    I think that's just what they were doing with Madani in Season 2.

    Dracomicron
  • KadokenKadoken One batch, two batch, poyo and hIIIIII Registered User regular
    This thread has convinced me to watch the movies.

    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
    Mine TTRPG blog http://darkheresychainsofmalice.blogspot.com/
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    One scene that worked super well on the other hand re: setup was-
    Amy disarming the attacker after practicing all the previous times and then actually shooting him, but "You didn't kill him, I did.".

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
    DracomicronCapt HowdyMcFodderWhiteZinfandelenc0re
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Still watching this season. It's been very good so far. I actually think I might rate the Punisher shows above JJ a little bit now. That would put them at the time.

    Minor-ish spoiler from this season shown early like ep or so I think
    They really dropped the ball with what's his names face. Like at first I thought that was the intention and it was just going to be to show how shallow he is. But then they have other characters reacting to so strongly to it which just feels bad and silly every time.

    Otherwise though dang. Each episode has me wanting more.

    desc wrote: »
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    McFodder
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Kadoken wrote: »
    This thread has convinced me to watch the movies.

    The Thomas Jane one is pretty bad
    Punisher Warzone is peak campy action movie. Think Crank with the Punisher

  • lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    While watching this it's making me sad as I know that there will never be such a TV-MA version of these characters ever again.

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
  • McFodderMcFodder 'SploringRegistered User regular
    After finishing season 2 this week, I'd say it's the strongest second season any of these shows have had, and if DD season 3 hadn't been so strong would probably lift it to be my favourite overall.

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  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    All the movies were ... pretty poor I thought. The best moments are lifted from comics (the popsicle against the skin trick) Even the Netflix series was just so boring. I basically liked Garth Ennis' work on the Punisher, with the MAX stuff being the highlight, his interactions with O'Brien, Yorkie and Barracuda. It's a lot like Watchmen - sure they could make a movie or show that directly adapts those stories but why bother when the source material got it so right. I wanted that Watchmen movie so bad until we got it and I realized it wasn't needed at all. Stories like The Slavers where sure you have the odd moment of satisfaction where Frank dispatches monsters, but ultimately nothing is fixed and no one gets out unscathed. In fact, that final panel of the Slavers arc is the one that sticks with me the most - Viorica crying in the alleyway after seeing a woman with her baby in the diner where she works.

    HappylilElf
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Tom Jane punisher is largely discardable but the scene with The Russian is fucking five stars hysterical, motherfucker hits a thrown grenade with a 2x4 like a baseball and I fucking dare you to not laugh until you die

    WhiteZinfandelNSDFRandCapt Howdy
  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    I assume this is the last series we're gonna see on Netflix and I...somehow can't see it popping up on a Disney branded channel. Wonder how they're going to handle non-kid fare.

  • lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    Nosf wrote: »
    I assume this is the last series we're gonna see on Netflix and I...somehow can't see it popping up on a Disney branded channel. Wonder how they're going to handle non-kid fare.

    Jessica Jones is coming. They already shot it so it'll drop between two and four months after Punisher. After that, no more Netflix series.

    Disney has a couple of options for non-kid fare such as Punisher. They either never do it again (which I'm guessing will happen), make it PG-13 and put it on Disney Plus like the Loki and Hawkeye/Falcon shows, make it PG-13 and put it on Hulu like Runaways, or make it MA and put it on Hulu (which I'm guessing will never happen).

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    I sure hope they surprise the hell out of me and do some MA stuff somewhere. Killing off the Netflix stuff so soon is such a waste, no hope for them but I live in blind hope for something.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
    DracomicronMcFodderDemonStacey
  • KadokenKadoken One batch, two batch, poyo and hIIIIII Registered User regular
    Watched the Thomas Jane movie.

    It was dumb and just kind of watchable where all of its good parts were from the Ennis run and even then they weren’t as good.

    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
    Mine TTRPG blog http://darkheresychainsofmalice.blogspot.com/
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Finished season 2!

    Alright yea, Punisher is my fav of the Netflix Marvel shows. Dang that was so good.

    I'm really hoping something turns around and we get more of this somewhere.

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
    McFodder
  • KadokenKadoken One batch, two batch, poyo and hIIIIII Registered User regular
    edited February 15
    Now folks, Punisher Warzone
    Now Folks
    Punisher Warzone

    This is possibly the greatest blending of not only Ennis’s 616 and MAX runs but also the 80s and 90s Punisher. To me, the EOD style armour looks like modernized spandex he used to wear. The Thomas Jayne movie was schlock with distillate decent parts stolen from Ennis. This was Punisher. Not just MAX, all of it.

    Dominic West was rad. Ray Stevenson was an awesome Frank. Fucking Newman! Good action. Actually emotionally resonant parts. Nice satire. Great one-liners. It was everything the Jayne movie should have been. The Netflix series holds the Punisher MAX spirit closer to it especially in Daredevil Season 2 and Bernthal is still probably the best Frank Castle in my book, but this was a celebration of everything Frank from his beginning to MAX.

    Also the Dirty Laundry short was meh. Frank possibly let a woman get raped when he knew she was out there? That’s what that scene read to me. Like that’s fucking horrid and wouldn’t happen. The last time something like that happened people were thrown into shatter proof windows for an hour, had their intestines wrapped around a tree, and set on fire

    Kadoken on
    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
    Mine TTRPG blog http://darkheresychainsofmalice.blogspot.com/
    TexiKen
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