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Lootboxes, Microtransactions, and [Gambling in Gaming]

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Posts

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Monopoly is a sadomasochistic science experiment.

    mrondeauSleepN1tSt4lkerCouscousAndy Joe
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    Monopoly is a sadomasochistic science experiment.

    You mean an educational opportunity on why we should eat the rich.

    shrykePolaritieDacSleepDarkPrimusdiscriderMan in the MistsMatevEtiowsaN1tSt4lkerThawmusJeep-EepkimeBigJoeMdispatch.oMegaMeknever dieFencingsaxAndy JoeEncoverride367TofystedethJoolanderMrVyngaardShadowhopeTetraNitroCubane
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Monopoly is the opposite of a game of chance. You don't roll the dice to see who wins, you roll the dice until something terrible happens and one player loses. All the strategies in the world I've seen like chances of landing on certain squares and their payoff for investment are pointless - it's not the pressure that kills a player, it's usually something utterly unsurvivable, like an upgraded property right before Go or that property tax card (which in Mario Party fashion is utterly lethal to the player who's clearly winning).

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Monopoly is a sadomasochistic science experiment.

    You mean an educational opportunity on why we should eat the rich.

    I thought that's what Cooking Mama was about (I've never played it, not a fan of cannibalism).

    Elvenshae
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Monopoly is the opposite of a game of chance. You don't roll the dice to see who wins, you roll the dice until something terrible happens and one player loses. All the strategies in the world I've seen like chances of landing on certain squares and their payoff for investment are pointless - it's not the pressure that kills a player, it's usually something utterly unsurvivable, like an upgraded property right before Go or that property tax card (which in Mario Party fashion is utterly lethal to the player who's clearly winning).

    In other words, with Monopoly, you are 100% guaranteed to have a bad time. Since it's 100%, it's definitely not a game of chance.

  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Drez wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Monopoly is a sadomasochistic science experiment.

    You mean an educational opportunity on why we should eat the rich.

    I thought that's what Cooking Mama was about (I've never played it, not a fan of cannibalism).

    No, Monopoly really is an educational opportunity on why we should eat the rich. That's why it (well, The Landlord's Game) was first made.

    Then capitalism got its hands on it. So now we've got Angry Birds Monopoly.

    WotanAnubis on
    DoodmannJeep-EepMan in the MistsIncenjucarautono-wally, erotibot300TofystedethLovely
  • mRahmanimRahmani DetroitRegistered User regular
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Monopoly is a game of chance. The chance simply happens early in the game. If you get good properties and if your opponent lands on properties when you have more money than your opponent but they cannot afford the property normally are good events. The person who receives more of these early good events wins the game an hour later, once the loser gets so far behind that they have to start mortgaging... and then the winner buys them up at half price.

    wbBv3fj.png
    DarkPrimus
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46030753
    Under-fives are being blitzed with app-based ads which are often manipulative, inappropriate or deceptive, according to a coalition of campaign groups.

    Examples given include a character crying if the child does not pay to unlock part of a game, and an app promoting another title that showed a cartoon of the US president trying to press a "nukes" button.

    More than 20 groups have called on US regulators to launch an official probe.

    A UK charity has also urged action.
    ...

    Character endorsements
    The study gives several examples of advertising techniques which it thinks raise concern:

    use of commercial characters - in Paw Patrol: Air and Sea Adventures it says some characters show facial expressions of disappointment when the player does not choose locked items
    teasers - in the free version of Balloon Pop it says the user is shown fancier-than-normal balloons, but if selected a sound effect and written text state that they are only available in the full app
    interruptions - in Kids Animal Jigsaw it says pop-up ads appear every time the player completes a puzzle, meaning they take up about as much time as gameplay
    character encouragement - in Strawberry Shortcake Bake Shop it says the protagonist always states how much better the locked pay-to-use tools are than the free ones
    unsuitable ads - one unnamed app was said to feature banner adverts for bipolar disorder treatments and Instagram, which has a 13+ age limit
    camouflaged items - in Talking Tom it says that a present falls from the ceiling which appears to be part of the game but is actually a prompt to "watch videos and win"

    ...

    Edbuzzkids' Sight Words was also highlighted for prompting players to click on ads by using cartoon hands to guide them to a banner.

    In addition, the groups said the "x" used to close out of ads in several apps was very small, meaning children were likely to tap outside it and be led to a purchase screen or app store instead.

    "The blurred lines between ads and entertainment may simply overwhelm the defences children are still in the process of building," the groups wrote to the Federal Trade Commission.

    ...

    "This issue and the questions raised are just as relevant in the UK," Will Gardner told the BBC.

    "If advertising is aimed at children who are too young to distinguish advertising from other content for example, then there is a clear issue to address."

    The matter falls under the remit of the Advertising Standards Authority in the UK. Its current rules focus on whether ads might cause distress or include age-restricted products.

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46030753
    Under-fives are being blitzed with app-based ads which are often manipulative, inappropriate or deceptive, according to a coalition of campaign groups.

    Examples given include a character crying if the child does not pay to unlock part of a game, and an app promoting another title that showed a cartoon of the US president trying to press a "nukes" button.

    More than 20 groups have called on US regulators to launch an official probe.

    A UK charity has also urged action.
    ...

    Character endorsements
    The study gives several examples of advertising techniques which it thinks raise concern:

    use of commercial characters - in Paw Patrol: Air and Sea Adventures it says some characters show facial expressions of disappointment when the player does not choose locked items
    teasers - in the free version of Balloon Pop it says the user is shown fancier-than-normal balloons, but if selected a sound effect and written text state that they are only available in the full app
    interruptions - in Kids Animal Jigsaw it says pop-up ads appear every time the player completes a puzzle, meaning they take up about as much time as gameplay
    character encouragement - in Strawberry Shortcake Bake Shop it says the protagonist always states how much better the locked pay-to-use tools are than the free ones
    unsuitable ads - one unnamed app was said to feature banner adverts for bipolar disorder treatments and Instagram, which has a 13+ age limit
    camouflaged items - in Talking Tom it says that a present falls from the ceiling which appears to be part of the game but is actually a prompt to "watch videos and win"

    ...

    Edbuzzkids' Sight Words was also highlighted for prompting players to click on ads by using cartoon hands to guide them to a banner.

    In addition, the groups said the "x" used to close out of ads in several apps was very small, meaning children were likely to tap outside it and be led to a purchase screen or app store instead.

    "The blurred lines between ads and entertainment may simply overwhelm the defences children are still in the process of building," the groups wrote to the Federal Trade Commission.

    ...

    "This issue and the questions raised are just as relevant in the UK," Will Gardner told the BBC.

    "If advertising is aimed at children who are too young to distinguish advertising from other content for example, then there is a clear issue to address."

    The matter falls under the remit of the Advertising Standards Authority in the UK. Its current rules focus on whether ads might cause distress or include age-restricted products.

    In relation to this, something which is angering me greatly lately is that the apple app store USED to have a section for each game or app which read like this....

    Top paid items

    1. Box of gems ($4)
    2. Crate of gems ($10)
    3. Favorite characters pack ($20)
    4. Istanbul Expansion ($5)
    5. Lonestar Pistol ($3)

    So you could quickly and easily see if a game was a poisonous free to play nightmare or a real game

    But as of 12 months ago they changed the store such that there's just a little button which says...

    "This game includes paid downloadable content blah blah blah"

    And because EVERY game has at least some Paid DLC, every game has the button so you can't see whats a real game. In addition, games which USED to be real games that I play have gradually become freemium nightmare versions of themselves.

    What this means is that it is literally impossible to provide a safe curated gaming experience to a kid on a phone or tablet.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    ElvenshaeJeep-EepkimeThawmusLord_AsmodeusMan in the MistsJazzoverride36738thDoeShadowhope
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46286945
    The number of children classed as having a gambling problem has quadrupled to more than 50,000 in just two years, a report has claimed.
    The commission also raised concerns that close to a million young people had been exposed to gambling through "loot boxes" in video games or on smartphone apps.

    These can involve a player paying money for an item that is only revealed after purchasing.

    MegaMekIncenjucarN1tSt4lkerDacJazzCouscous38thDoe
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Drez wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Monopoly is a sadomasochistic science experiment.

    You mean an educational opportunity on why we should eat the rich.

    I thought that's what Cooking Mama was about (I've never played it, not a fan of cannibalism).

    No, Monopoly really is an educational opportunity on why we should eat the rich. That's why it (well, The Landlord's Game) was first made.

    Then capitalism got its hands on it. So now we've got Angry Birds Monopoly.

    It's the prisoner's dilemma, it's almost impossible to lose as an altruistic Co-op until one side betrays the other. And usually when faced with a Co-op acting in good faith, the people who like Monopoly will quit or be ruined before you have to turn on each other. Or they'll do it immediately after.

    Tastyfish on
  • Fartacus_the_MightyFartacus_the_Mighty Brought to you by the letter A.Registered User regular
    Belgium's anti-lootbox law inflicts casualties: 3 Squeenix games pulled entirely from that market.

    ElvenshaeV1mMegaMekMan in the MistsIncenjucarknitdanMegaMan001yossarian_livesThawmusJeep-EepHeffling38thDoeDacMrVyngaardShadowhope
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    FFRK has changed to add a store, but it's definitely not replacing the gacha.

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Final Fantasy Brave Exvius should also be shutting down in Belgium.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    http://gamasutra.com/view/news/331827/IGDA_urges_devs_to_selfregulate_loot_boxes__while_they_still_can.php
    The International Game Developers Association has put forth a call to action regarding how loot boxes are used, a few days after the Federal Trade Commission agreed to launch an investigation into monetization schemes in video games to see whether or not they take advantage of young players.

    [...]

    "Random loot drops are a well-established game mechanic, and a way to vary rewards and keep players interested and engaged," the post continues. "But when a player makes a real-money purchase of an unknown item-a loot box-we run the risk of triggering gambling laws."

    [...]

    To protect younger players from the potentially exploitative monetization mechanic, the IGDA urges the game dev community to establish "clear, easy-to-understand game ratings and content descriptions so that consumers, and especially parents, understand what's in the games they or their children play."



    This includes:



    Affirm an industry commitment to not market loot boxes to children.
    Clearly disclose the odds of different rewards when purchasing loot boxes.
    Launch a coordinated education campaign that boosts awareness of the parental controls that are available to appropriately limit how players engage with games


    They shook, and with good reason.

    Andy JoeIncenjucarshrykeGONG-00Thawmusnever dieJazzBullheadMartini_Philosopher38thDoeMan in the MistsLord_AsmodeusJaysonFourMrVyngaardyossarian_lives
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    The game industry had it's chance to self regulate and thoroughly blew it. The call to action itself largely ignores predation on adults and suggests existing laws might be vague and new ones overreaching. It's like they'd have to comply with laws in the countries they sell in and might have to hire lawyers. Which if you are intent on selling micro transactions to anyone is something you should be doing anyway.

    Piss off mate, you had you're chance. European countries aren't going to back off writing laws explicitly dealing with this issue on the promise the industry self regulates. There is no reason to believe the games industry is capable of restraint. For a time they tried waiting around for game devs to get their house in order with mobile gaming and they just got worse.

    shrykemrondeauoverride367never diedestroyah87JazzPolaritiekimeBullheadElvenshaeMartini_PhilosopherdiscriderJeep-EepMan in the MistsLord_AsmodeusFencingsaxJaysonFourMrVyngaardOrcaMegaMekShadowhopeyossarian_livesNyysjan
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    All indicators are that game companies have been fully aware of how seedy and manipulative their loot box practices have been, and relied on lobbying and government apathy to never call them on it. Now that they are, they aren’t really mounting a rhetorical offense.

    override367V1mdestroyah87JazzObiFettIncenjucarElvenshaeMartini_PhilosopherDarkPrimusTaranisMan in the MistsLord_AsmodeusFencingsaxDacJaysonFourMrVyngaardMegaMekNyysjanLovely
  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Of course game companies knew that loot boxes are manipulative and trigger gambling addiction.
    That's the whole point of loot boxes.

    N1tSt4lkerThawmusshrykeV1mJazzPolaritiekimeObiFettBullheadIncenjucarElvenshaeMartini_Philosopher38thDoeCouscousDarkPrimusJeep-EepTaranisMan in the MistsLord_AsmodeusFencingsaxDacJaysonFourMrVyngaardOrcaMegaMekMvrckNyysjanSleepLovely
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Of course game companies knew that loot boxes are manipulative and trigger gambling addiction.
    That's the whole point of loot boxes.

    Yeah but most of the time there’s some kind of ‘yeah but’ line of argument for why they shouldn’t need to change. But not this time.

    Jeep-Eep
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Launch a coordinated education campaign that boosts awareness of the parental controls that are available to appropriately limit how players engage with games

    Just as a tangent, I saw an advertisement for an actual gambling app a while back, and among its boasted features were hard monthly limits on credit card spending and an easy way to see how much you spent, so you could see when you were taking it too far.

    When you have to tout these features, yikes.

    destroyah8738thDoeCouscousV1mJeep-EepFencingsaxJaysonFourMrVyngaardMegaMekNyysjan
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Of course game companies knew that loot boxes are manipulative and trigger gambling addiction.
    That's the whole point of loot boxes.

    Yeah but most of the time there’s some kind of ‘yeah but’ line of argument for why they shouldn’t need to change. But not this time.

    Don't they invariably boil down to "yeah, but our shareholders..."?

    Jeep-EepNyysjanLovely
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Of course game companies knew that loot boxes are manipulative and trigger gambling addiction.
    That's the whole point of loot boxes.

    Yeah but most of the time there’s some kind of ‘yeah but’ line of argument for why they shouldn’t need to change. But not this time.

    Don't they invariably boil down to "yeah, but our shareholders..."?

    yeah, but just think of the day you'll be one of them!

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Launch a coordinated education campaign that boosts awareness of the parental controls that are available to appropriately limit how players engage with games

    Just as a tangent, I saw an advertisement for an actual gambling app a while back, and among its boasted features were hard monthly limits on credit card spending and an easy way to see how much you spent, so you could see when you were taking it too far.

    When you have to tout these features, yikes.

    When you have to tout those features, but also can say, "These features are far more advanced, fair, and consumer protective than those used in "Magic pony happy town express", our competitors lootbox focused product targetted at 5 year olds"

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    destroyah87CouscousRMS OceanicJeep-EepLord_AsmodeusFencingsaxMegaMekKayne Red RobeNyysjanSleep
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Of course game companies knew that loot boxes are manipulative and trigger gambling addiction.
    That's the whole point of loot boxes.

    Yeah but most of the time there’s some kind of ‘yeah but’ line of argument for why they shouldn’t need to change. But not this time.

    Don't they invariably boil down to "yeah, but our shareholders..."?

    yeah, but just think of the day you'll be one of them!

    Ah yes, the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" theory.

  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Launch a coordinated education campaign that boosts awareness of the parental controls that are available to appropriately limit how players engage with games

    Just as a tangent, I saw an advertisement for an actual gambling app a while back, and among its boasted features were hard monthly limits on credit card spending and an easy way to see how much you spent, so you could see when you were taking it too far.

    When you have to tout these features, yikes.

    When you have to tout those features, but also can say, "These features are far more advanced, fair, and consumer protective than those used in "Magic pony happy town express", our competitors lootbox focused product targetted at 5 year olds"

    *Shareholders immediately sell their interest and invest in Magic pony happy town express*



    steam_sig.png
    DoodmannElvenshaeDacSleepLovely
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Launch a coordinated education campaign that boosts awareness of the parental controls that are available to appropriately limit how players engage with games

    Just as a tangent, I saw an advertisement for an actual gambling app a while back, and among its boasted features were hard monthly limits on credit card spending and an easy way to see how much you spent, so you could see when you were taking it too far.

    When you have to tout these features, yikes.

    A lot of those features are required by various Governments. "Gamble Responsibly" had to be forced on them and are constantly evaluated and audited.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
    V1mIncenjucarMartini_PhilosopherLord_AsmodeusElvenshaeJeep-EepLoisLaneNyysjanSleep
  • ZiggymonZiggymon Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    Launch a coordinated education campaign that boosts awareness of the parental controls that are available to appropriately limit how players engage with games

    Just as a tangent, I saw an advertisement for an actual gambling app a while back, and among its boasted features were hard monthly limits on credit card spending and an easy way to see how much you spent, so you could see when you were taking it too far.

    When you have to tout these features, yikes.

    A lot of those features are required by various Governments. "Gamble Responsibly" had to be forced on them and are constantly evaluated and audited.

    It's weird in the Uk I used to do some work repairing AWP machines (Slot machines) at a casino and for problem gamblers we couldn't force any bans on them or intervene in any meaningful way. The most we could do is hand them a leaflet with information and hope they would request a self imposed ban (most didn't).

    Personally I also think its dangerous to have either side of the regulation argument, it's obvious the industry won't self regulate and something needs to happen but if you impose government regulation, it's authenticity to action for the industry to push the practice to the absolute limits (something in which they aren't doing currently).

    Take for example in the UK there was a stink with mobile phone networks imposing inflation charges on customers contracts several times a year meaning a contract cost over a 12 month period could have 3 price increases (usually way under inflation but still annoying). The government got involved and regulated it to ban multiple increases in price and said if companies do this you could leave the contract. The government also said that companies could only increase prices by so much above inflation within so many times per year, so each of the networks now guarantee price increases by the maximum amount they are allowed, making costs worse for the customers than before.

    I have REZ for the Dreamcast PAL for sale £35. Other Excellent retro games for sale PM for details
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Ziggymon wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    Launch a coordinated education campaign that boosts awareness of the parental controls that are available to appropriately limit how players engage with games

    Just as a tangent, I saw an advertisement for an actual gambling app a while back, and among its boasted features were hard monthly limits on credit card spending and an easy way to see how much you spent, so you could see when you were taking it too far.

    When you have to tout these features, yikes.

    A lot of those features are required by various Governments. "Gamble Responsibly" had to be forced on them and are constantly evaluated and audited.

    It's weird in the Uk I used to do some work repairing AWP machines (Slot machines) at a casino and for problem gamblers we couldn't force any bans on them or intervene in any meaningful way. The most we could do is hand them a leaflet with information and hope they would request a self imposed ban (most didn't).

    Personally I also think its dangerous to have either side of the regulation argument, it's obvious the industry won't self regulate and something needs to happen but if you impose government regulation, it's authenticity to action for the industry to push the practice to the absolute limits (something in which they aren't doing currently).

    Take for example in the UK there was a stink with mobile phone networks imposing inflation charges on customers contracts several times a year meaning a contract cost over a 12 month period could have 3 price increases (usually way under inflation but still annoying). The government got involved and regulated it to ban multiple increases in price and said if companies do this you could leave the contract. The government also said that companies could only increase prices by so much above inflation within so many times per year, so each of the networks now guarantee price increases by the maximum amount they are allowed, making costs worse for the customers than before.

    I am trying to remember who supplied us with AWP software. Ash Gaming I think? It was a UK company.

    They had the most terrible awesome puns for names. Abrakabra for a genie was food stand theme, Hiphophipotomus for a rapping hippo etc.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
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