Melee needs to be a 2-hit kill, regardless of Resilience. It is absolutely absurd that you can melee someone twice and they'll have a sliver of health. If you can get close enough to melee twice without dying? Fuck em, THEY should be dead.
Also, Tone Patrol is my new jam.
Le problem is that this messes up some of the new perk systems: the power of Juggernaut Strikers, Protector Sentinals, Warrior Staff Supervisors and Titans with Synthoceps (and possibly Sunbreaker punchy bois) is that they can in particular circumstances 2 hit melee.
Whether or not it would be better, it is going to be a major, major rebalance if it were to be reimplemented.
I completely disagree. Melee is underpowered, full stop, regardless of perks.
I don’t understand. I didn’t say melee was (or, was not) underpowered. My contention is that it’s current power level is part of the interclass balance and there would need to be a major, major rebalance to increase its power to being able to two-punch by default, which has nothing to do with the its relative power.
And I still disagree. Any melee ability that requires a kill for proc is by default a luck-based ability. You need to be in a position to get a kill with it, which requires pre-damage. Hell, I was just in a match where I got a melee, a body shot, and a second melee and that STILL wasn't enough for a kill. That is just fundamentally broken.
The abilities are not tuned in any way that I can tell or have experienced that would break the game if melee were made more powerful. In fact, it would make the game more interesting because you'd have things happening more often.
I don’t understand. The ability to two punch appears to be the main draw for aggressive play styles for each of the aforementioned subsubclasses. The most successful subclasses cannot 2 punch (Gunslinger, Nightstalker, Voidwalker) if they could then what does a Juggernaut Striker or Warrrior Staff Supervisor have to recommend it? The ability is significant enough that it appears to be the factor of choice when playing aggressively (i.e. in your face SMG/last hope + handcannons). I mean, Bungie thought the benefit of being able to do so was significant enough to make it a major differentiator between subsubclasses. It seems to be an assumption baked into how the classes are constructed that this is an issue of balance.
I also take exception with your terminology: situational abilities are not by definition luck based (especially compared to something like Lucky Raspberry, which is literally luck based). Not all the abilities require damage or kills to proc (mainly synthoceps) and Way of the Warrior's Combination Blow lasts for 20 seconds. And "fundamentally broken" is a weird phrase to use - in Overwatch it takes 6 hits to kill even a Tracer with nothing but melee, that's just how the meta works. Likewise, that's how the D2 meta works.
I fully admit that I could be wrong, but, in my experience, it is impossible to get a kill using only two melee attacks against a fully-shielded enemy. That's my complaint. If there is a class ability combo that can do it, I am unaware of it.
For a Juggernaut, Knockout doesn't trigger on a single melee hit because you can't drop an enemy's shield from full health with a single melee hit. If you can't get them below (or even at) 50% total shield/health on a single hit, then you can't get a kill on the second one.
I don't know what Warrior Staff Supervisor is, but Disorienting Blow procs on a strike, not a kill, and it doesn't improve melee lethality. Maybe Shocking Blow can drop a shield from full, since it's elemental damage? If so, is that the only one?
Just to confirm my point: two-hit melee kills without any damage being done from a gun by you or a teammate are impossible (or difficult to the point of absurdity). I would love to be proven wrong, because it means I'd be enjoying the game more. But even if there IS an ability combo that would get me a two-hit melee kill, it's based on a recharge rate, which makes it incredibly situational. That is not good enough for me.
As a Striker, I have to Charge, and then Melee Twice to get a kill. The game actively fighting my desire to be a Striker was one of the real souring points of new crucible.
I was not expecting this video to get salty so quickly!
Finally got around to watching this. I knew the new loadout system was going to cause issues and we're finally seeing the effects. Despite a bit of hyperbole and exaggeration, he's pretty much spot on with the problems of the current loadout system and the issues Destiny 2 will always have with exotics due to it. The best we are going to get will be what would be considered average exotic primaries in Destiny 1.
It also further explains the problems many people are having with power reduction in Destiny 2 compared to Destiny 1. Our supers, grenades, and melees have been relegated to being used half as much as before. We are being forced to use the least powerful weapon category, primaries, more than twice as much as before. Our armor now has essentially one super watered down perk on it, compared to the 3-4 we got per piece in D1. All high mobility stuff has been taken away. Only one of those changes would have sucked on its own, but probably still kept players feeling powerful. All of those changes at the same, though, was too much. The only fix I can see would be to drastically reduce super/grenade/melee cooldown. The rest of that is too baked into the game to be able to change at this point.
I was not expecting this video to get salty so quickly!
Finally got around to watching this. I knew the new loadout system was going to cause issues and we're finally seeing the effects. Despite a bit of hyperbole and exaggeration, he's pretty much spot on with the problems of the current loadout system and the issues Destiny 2 will always have with exotics due to it. The best we are going to get will be what would be considered average exotic primaries in Destiny 1.
It also further explains the problems many people are having with power reduction in Destiny 2 compared to Destiny 1. Our supers, grenades, and melees have been relegated to being used half as much as before. We are being forced to use the least powerful weapon category, primaries, more than twice as much as before. Our armor now has essentially one super watered down perk on it, compared to the 3-4 we got per piece in D1. All high mobility stuff has been taken away. Only one of those changes would have sucked on its own, but probably still kept players feeling powerful. All of those changes at the same, though, was too much. The only fix I can see would be to drastically reduce super/grenade/melee cooldown. The rest of that is too baked into the game to be able to change at this point.
I didn't watch the whole thing, so boo on me. But I can say that while I think the primary motivation for the change was PVP (getting rid of plentiful OHKO weapons/abilities), I do enjoy that moving snipers from Special to Power means that in PVE content I can ignore sniper rifles.
I'm a pretty poor sniper, and knowing that high level PVE content like Raids damn near required always using a sniper (in particular Black Hammer/Spindle) felt like a non-choice.
I enjoy that the new setup gives me choices in Kinetic/Energy instead of always defaulting to Scout/Sniper/GjallaSleeper or some such. All PVE content after a while had me rocking either Visions, the King's Fall pulse I can't recall, or Burning Eye in Y3.
Actually swapping weapons by encounter during Leviathan is something that previously was just not a thing.
I was not expecting this video to get salty so quickly!
Finally got around to watching this. I knew the new loadout system was going to cause issues and we're finally seeing the effects. Despite a bit of hyperbole and exaggeration, he's pretty much spot on with the problems of the current loadout system and the issues Destiny 2 will always have with exotics due to it. The best we are going to get will be what would be considered average exotic primaries in Destiny 1.
It also further explains the problems many people are having with power reduction in Destiny 2 compared to Destiny 1. Our supers, grenades, and melees have been relegated to being used half as much as before. We are being forced to use the least powerful weapon category, primaries, more than twice as much as before. Our armor now has essentially one super watered down perk on it, compared to the 3-4 we got per piece in D1. All high mobility stuff has been taken away. Only one of those changes would have sucked on its own, but probably still kept players feeling powerful. All of those changes at the same, though, was too much. The only fix I can see would be to drastically reduce super/grenade/melee cooldown. The rest of that is too baked into the game to be able to change at this point.
I didn't watch the whole thing, so boo on me. But I can say that while I think the primary motivation for the change was PVP (getting rid of plentiful OHKO weapons/abilities), I do enjoy that moving snipers from Special to Power means that in PVE content I can ignore sniper rifles.
I'm a pretty poor sniper, and knowing that high level PVE content like Raids damn near required always using a sniper (in particular Black Hammer/Spindle) felt like a non-choice.
I enjoy that the new setup gives me choices in Kinetic/Energy instead of always defaulting to Scout/Sniper/GjallaSleeper or some such. All PVE content after a while had me rocking either Visions, the King's Fall pulse I can't recall, or Burning Eye in Y3.
Actually swapping weapons by encounter during Leviathan is something that previously was just not a thing.
I'm pretty confident this is one of the major reasons @erevar has problems with Destiny 2 compared to Destiny 1.
The game has literally removed sniping from its core gameplay loop and thats a huge shame, imo.
I was not expecting this video to get salty so quickly!
Finally got around to watching this. I knew the new loadout system was going to cause issues and we're finally seeing the effects. Despite a bit of hyperbole and exaggeration, he's pretty much spot on with the problems of the current loadout system and the issues Destiny 2 will always have with exotics due to it. The best we are going to get will be what would be considered average exotic primaries in Destiny 1.
It also further explains the problems many people are having with power reduction in Destiny 2 compared to Destiny 1. Our supers, grenades, and melees have been relegated to being used half as much as before. We are being forced to use the least powerful weapon category, primaries, more than twice as much as before. Our armor now has essentially one super watered down perk on it, compared to the 3-4 we got per piece in D1. All high mobility stuff has been taken away. Only one of those changes would have sucked on its own, but probably still kept players feeling powerful. All of those changes at the same, though, was too much. The only fix I can see would be to drastically reduce super/grenade/melee cooldown. The rest of that is too baked into the game to be able to change at this point.
I didn't watch the whole thing, so boo on me. But I can say that while I think the primary motivation for the change was PVP (getting rid of plentiful OHKO weapons/abilities), I do enjoy that moving snipers from Special to Power means that in PVE content I can ignore sniper rifles.
I'm a pretty poor sniper, and knowing that high level PVE content like Raids damn near required always using a sniper (in particular Black Hammer/Spindle) felt like a non-choice.
I enjoy that the new setup gives me choices in Kinetic/Energy instead of always defaulting to Scout/Sniper/GjallaSleeper or some such. All PVE content after a while had me rocking either Visions, the King's Fall pulse I can't recall, or Burning Eye in Y3.
Actually swapping weapons by encounter during Leviathan is something that previously was just not a thing.
Yeah but Calus is basically the only time I think I've ever felt like swapping weapons was anything but a random whim. The moment to moment gameplay of Destiny 2 PvE is that Kinetic vs Energy is a meaningless difference 99% of the time and you just pick whichever tickles your fancy at the time.
my iron banner emblem says 48 packages. I got 2 whole new items this IB. The hunter gloves and the auto rifle.
so after 2 IBs I am titan 0/5, warlock 1/5, hunter 4/5, weapons only missing 1.
what the actual hell. So I'll have to turn in on hunter for a 3rd straight event to probably not even finish the set because S2 will add to the loot pool I'm sure.
This is the worst kind of discrimination. the kind against me!
On the plus side, I shoulder tackled two people dead right when they popped golden guns and i knifed a fist of havoc titan in between jumps so I feel like a melee GOD right now
I was not expecting this video to get salty so quickly!
Finally got around to watching this. I knew the new loadout system was going to cause issues and we're finally seeing the effects. Despite a bit of hyperbole and exaggeration, he's pretty much spot on with the problems of the current loadout system and the issues Destiny 2 will always have with exotics due to it. The best we are going to get will be what would be considered average exotic primaries in Destiny 1.
It also further explains the problems many people are having with power reduction in Destiny 2 compared to Destiny 1. Our supers, grenades, and melees have been relegated to being used half as much as before. We are being forced to use the least powerful weapon category, primaries, more than twice as much as before. Our armor now has essentially one super watered down perk on it, compared to the 3-4 we got per piece in D1. All high mobility stuff has been taken away. Only one of those changes would have sucked on its own, but probably still kept players feeling powerful. All of those changes at the same, though, was too much. The only fix I can see would be to drastically reduce super/grenade/melee cooldown. The rest of that is too baked into the game to be able to change at this point.
I didn't watch the whole thing, so boo on me. But I can say that while I think the primary motivation for the change was PVP (getting rid of plentiful OHKO weapons/abilities), I do enjoy that moving snipers from Special to Power means that in PVE content I can ignore sniper rifles.
I'm a pretty poor sniper, and knowing that high level PVE content like Raids damn near required always using a sniper (in particular Black Hammer/Spindle) felt like a non-choice.
I enjoy that the new setup gives me choices in Kinetic/Energy instead of always defaulting to Scout/Sniper/GjallaSleeper or some such. All PVE content after a while had me rocking either Visions, the King's Fall pulse I can't recall, or Burning Eye in Y3.
Actually swapping weapons by encounter during Leviathan is something that previously was just not a thing.
I'm pretty confident this is one of the major reasons erevar has problems with Destiny 2 compared to Destiny 1.
The game has literally removed sniping from its core gameplay loop and thats a huge shame, imo.
I love blowing aliens up with rockets as much as the next guy, but I really miss sniping. They don't belong in the same category of weapons.
(Destiny) Doot Doot, Shoot Brutes for New Boots, Woot Woot for Rad Suits and Phat Loots
73 Packages. Does the counter reset? I'm... sure I didn't get 73 packages this time because I only played enough to complete challenges. Either way, I'm at
just a bit harder (think its at 300 light recommended instead of 230)
and it has a strict timer (17 mins) to finish or you fail
and by strick i mean you must plan ahead on certain encounters and use the weeks modifiers (torrent) to spam grenades
not overly difficult, just a bit annoying since random red health adds can 2 shot you etc
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
Snipers need a massive PvE buff. Probably something like double the precision damage, if you don't wanna balance separately for PvE and PvP. The fact that they aren't even the best option for stationary critable boss DPS like Calus is just pathetic.
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
Would adding a 4th weapon slot be a heretical concept to entertain?
Yes in that the controller setup would have difficulty supporting it. You'd need to change the weapon swap system and everyone would need to relearn it and rebalance around it.
Ignoring that it's not a terrible suggestion but still leaves you with 2 mostly redundant primary weapons.
Snipers need a massive PvE buff. Probably something like double the precision damage, if you don't wanna balance separately for PvE and PvP. The fact that they aren't even the best option for stationary critable boss DPS like Calus is just pathetic.
Eh. Using sniper rifles as a main DPS weapon seems really fucking weird. The point of snipers is usually that they don't do the highest DPS. Their reload and shots per minute values should preclude that. The point of a sniper rifle is supposed to be one (or a few) big life-ending shots from way downtown, not unloading them as fast as possible into a giant stationary target.
In PvE, don't you get a bonus to crits with kinetic weapons? I know when I started playing originally, I would drop shields with an energy weapon, then immediately switch to kinetic to drop orange bars.
Edit: also, I absolutely love how there is a notice in-game today telling you that Season 1 is ending soon, be sure to buy the exotic emote that was for sale last week because you can't after that! It's just the worst fucking optics with these guys lately.
In PvE, don't you get a bonus to crits with kinetic weapons? I know when I started playing originally, I would drop shields with an energy weapon, then immediately switch to kinetic to drop orange bars.
Yes, that's how you're supposed to fight. Energy to strip shields, Kinetic to strip bone structure.
Nobody does it.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
+2
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
edited November 2017
Yeah, I do think that eventually there will need to be some kind of harsher PVP/PVE split, like actually making some guns worse in PVP (eg something like The Last Word would have its damage reduced in PVP or whatever), in order to create new and different weapons. But maybe that's not necessary! I think Sunshot is a fantastic PVE exotic and sits perfectly fine in the existing system, so fun designs are possible.
I also feel like if we could, in PVE, swap between power weapons (another good use for a hold the button get a wheel widget) it would go a long way to addressing a lot of the complaints. Because I think they all have their uses, but if you're gonna have to pick one its likely gonna be rockets. And swapping them around costs too much time and ammo.
I personally like the two primary one power loadout and the resulting ups and downs of ammo management. Two primaries lets you cover a variety of situations, and gives you a little minigame of managing the ammo between them (using one seems to drop more ammo for the other), and it makes using your power weapon feel significant. But then I also like using those primaries.
I can see why people would prefer a bunch of the things in the video/post, but I think they are mostly different things, not necessarily better things.
In PvE, don't you get a bonus to crits with kinetic weapons? I know when I started playing originally, I would drop shields with an energy weapon, then immediately switch to kinetic to drop orange bars.
Yes, that's how you're supposed to fight. Energy to strip shields, Kinetic to strip bone structure.
In PvE, don't you get a bonus to crits with kinetic weapons? I know when I started playing originally, I would drop shields with an energy weapon, then immediately switch to kinetic to drop orange bars.
Yes, that's how you're supposed to fight. Energy to strip shields, Kinetic to strip bone structure.
In PvE, don't you get a bonus to crits with kinetic weapons? I know when I started playing originally, I would drop shields with an energy weapon, then immediately switch to kinetic to drop orange bars.
Yes, that's how you're supposed to fight. Energy to strip shields, Kinetic to strip bone structure.
Nobody does it.
Well, people do it sometimes. I do it when it's an option. It's just shields aren't common enough to warrant a whole weapon slot devoted to popping them.
In PvE, don't you get a bonus to crits with kinetic weapons? I know when I started playing originally, I would drop shields with an energy weapon, then immediately switch to kinetic to drop orange bars.
Yes, that's how you're supposed to fight. Energy to strip shields, Kinetic to strip bone structure.
Nobody does it.
I do sometimes but it's somewhat muddled by my energy weapon being an exotic which is still really good even on unshielded enemies. It would be more consistent if I had a better kinetic
Plus sometimes there's a strike challenge to kill x enemies using a specified element which makes energy weapons stay out longer.
Would adding a 4th weapon slot be a heretical concept to entertain?
That'd be great, but I don't know how practical it'd be to implement.
I like having two primaries in both PvP and PvE, but it's not worth sacrificing the special weapon slot. The energy slot as-is feels like an afterthought in PvE.
Yeah, I do think that eventually there will need to be some kind of harsher PVP/PVE split, like actually making some guns worse in PVP (eg something like The Last Word would have its damage reduced in PVP or whatever), in order to create new and different weapons. But maybe that's not necessary! I think Sunshot is a fantastic PVE exotic and sits perfectly fine in the existing system, so fun designs are possible.
I also feel like if we could, in PVE, swap between power weapons (another good use for a hold the button get a wheel widget) it would go a long way to addressing a lot of the complaints. Because I think they all have their uses, but if you're gonna have to pick one its likely gonna be rockets. And swapping them around costs too much time and ammo.
I personally like the two primary one power loadout and the resulting ups and downs of ammo management. Two primaries lets you cover a variety of situations, and gives you a little minigame of managing the ammo between them (using one seems to drop more ammo for the other), and it makes using your power weapon feel significant. But then I also like using those primaries.
I can see why people would prefer a bunch of the things in the video/post, but I think they are mostly different things, not necessarily better things.
In PvE, don't you get a bonus to crits with kinetic weapons? I know when I started playing originally, I would drop shields with an energy weapon, then immediately switch to kinetic to drop orange bars.
Yes, that's how you're supposed to fight. Energy to strip shields, Kinetic to strip bone structure.
Nobody does it.
I do it! ...sometimes.
Splitting PvE and PvP would instantly solve a ton of problems for the game but Bungie has made not doing that a core design philosophy so we are pretty hosed.
+1
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
In PvE, don't you get a bonus to crits with kinetic weapons? I know when I started playing originally, I would drop shields with an energy weapon, then immediately switch to kinetic to drop orange bars.
Yes, that's how you're supposed to fight. Energy to strip shields, Kinetic to strip bone structure.
Nobody does it.
Well, people do it sometimes. I do it when it's an option. It's just shields aren't common enough to warrant a whole weapon slot devoted to popping them.
Well, the slots also let you carry two weapon classes for different situations, like short range (pulse rifle), mid range (scout rifle), or long range (hand cannon).
Snipers need a massive PvE buff. Probably something like double the precision damage, if you don't wanna balance separately for PvE and PvP. The fact that they aren't even the best option for stationary critable boss DPS like Calus is just pathetic.
Eh. Using sniper rifles as a main DPS weapon seems really fucking weird. The point of snipers is usually that they don't do the highest DPS. Their reload and shots per minute values should preclude that. The point of a sniper rifle is supposed to be one (or a few) big life-ending shots from way downtown, not unloading them as fast as possible into a giant stationary target.
Yeah, they fit that niche in PvP, but all of the raid encounters don't allow for long range, safe sniping like that, so it's not really an useful design niche in the PvE environment that Bungie has created.
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
Other than the occasional shielded enemy, the main reason I swap kinetic and energy weapons is to get ammo for whichever type is running low. You know, thanks to the whole permanent juggler modifier the game has.
Other than the occasional shielded enemy, the main reason I swap kinetic and energy weapons is to get ammo for whichever type is running low. You know, thanks to the whole permanent juggler modifier the game has.
I mean, the point of ammo in games is almost always to make you switch guns.
In PvE, don't you get a bonus to crits with kinetic weapons? I know when I started playing originally, I would drop shields with an energy weapon, then immediately switch to kinetic to drop orange bars.
Yes, that's how you're supposed to fight. Energy to strip shields, Kinetic to strip bone structure.
Nobody does it.
Well, people do it sometimes. I do it when it's an option. It's just shields aren't common enough to warrant a whole weapon slot devoted to popping them.
Well, the slots also let you carry two weapon classes for different situations, like short range (pulse rifle), mid range (scout rifle), or long range (hand cannon).
How to spot a PC player. :rotate:
For the records, hand cannons are supposed to compete with auto-rifles at short range.
In PvE, don't you get a bonus to crits with kinetic weapons? I know when I started playing originally, I would drop shields with an energy weapon, then immediately switch to kinetic to drop orange bars.
Yes, that's how you're supposed to fight. Energy to strip shields, Kinetic to strip bone structure.
Nobody does it.
Well, people do it sometimes. I do it when it's an option. It's just shields aren't common enough to warrant a whole weapon slot devoted to popping them.
Well, the slots also let you carry two weapon classes for different situations, like short range (pulse rifle), mid range (scout rifle), or long range (hand cannon).
How to spot a PC player. :rotate:
For the records, hand cannons are supposed to compete with auto-rifles at short range.
In PvE, don't you get a bonus to crits with kinetic weapons? I know when I started playing originally, I would drop shields with an energy weapon, then immediately switch to kinetic to drop orange bars.
Yes, that's how you're supposed to fight. Energy to strip shields, Kinetic to strip bone structure.
Nobody does it.
Well, people do it sometimes. I do it when it's an option. It's just shields aren't common enough to warrant a whole weapon slot devoted to popping them.
Well, the slots also let you carry two weapon classes for different situations, like short range (pulse rifle), mid range (scout rifle), or long range (hand cannon).
Yeah, but how often does this really come up? It's like the shield stripping thing. It's a good idea but the game rarely every requires the function. The two functions also somewhat work at cross purposes, although that can be considered a good thing for forcing interesting decisions in your loadout. By adding it in though you compress the available space for other weapons to just one slot though and I really don't think it's all that worth the trade-off as currently designed.
Honestly, I wonder if maybe they should just tone down snipers and shotguns and the like somewhat and just make them available in the energy slot.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Other than the occasional shielded enemy, the main reason I swap kinetic and energy weapons is to get ammo for whichever type is running low. You know, thanks to the whole permanent juggler modifier the game has.
I mean, the point of ammo in games is almost always to make you switch guns.
it used to be more of a good/better/best thing where you secondary (now energy) weapon was like an in between regular and super powerful, so you'd use each situationally
now it's basically two guns you swap just to keep ammo in them
it just makes sense because you don't have to reload when the enemy is at a sliver of health left that way, just swap after the shield pops
Assuming the enemy isn't dead long before you need to reload. Especially if you are matching shield types, you will easily gun them down. You gotta be an yellow bar before that's not true in my experience and with those you probably gonna need to reload your kinetic anyway.
And of course, none of them are that common anyway.
Other than the occasional shielded enemy, the main reason I swap kinetic and energy weapons is to get ammo for whichever type is running low. You know, thanks to the whole permanent juggler modifier the game has.
I find myself rarely if ever running out of ammo. The raid is probably the only place it seems to maybe happen sometimes.
Or I guess if I'm using exclusively my energy weapon in PvE I do find myself needing to occasionally swap to kinetic. But never from kinetic to energy for ammo.
Posts
I fully admit that I could be wrong, but, in my experience, it is impossible to get a kill using only two melee attacks against a fully-shielded enemy. That's my complaint. If there is a class ability combo that can do it, I am unaware of it.
For a Juggernaut, Knockout doesn't trigger on a single melee hit because you can't drop an enemy's shield from full health with a single melee hit. If you can't get them below (or even at) 50% total shield/health on a single hit, then you can't get a kill on the second one.
I don't know what Warrior Staff Supervisor is, but Disorienting Blow procs on a strike, not a kill, and it doesn't improve melee lethality. Maybe Shocking Blow can drop a shield from full, since it's elemental damage? If so, is that the only one?
Just to confirm my point: two-hit melee kills without any damage being done from a gun by you or a teammate are impossible (or difficult to the point of absurdity). I would love to be proven wrong, because it means I'd be enjoying the game more. But even if there IS an ability combo that would get me a two-hit melee kill, it's based on a recharge rate, which makes it incredibly situational. That is not good enough for me.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Finally got around to watching this. I knew the new loadout system was going to cause issues and we're finally seeing the effects. Despite a bit of hyperbole and exaggeration, he's pretty much spot on with the problems of the current loadout system and the issues Destiny 2 will always have with exotics due to it. The best we are going to get will be what would be considered average exotic primaries in Destiny 1.
It also further explains the problems many people are having with power reduction in Destiny 2 compared to Destiny 1. Our supers, grenades, and melees have been relegated to being used half as much as before. We are being forced to use the least powerful weapon category, primaries, more than twice as much as before. Our armor now has essentially one super watered down perk on it, compared to the 3-4 we got per piece in D1. All high mobility stuff has been taken away. Only one of those changes would have sucked on its own, but probably still kept players feeling powerful. All of those changes at the same, though, was too much. The only fix I can see would be to drastically reduce super/grenade/melee cooldown. The rest of that is too baked into the game to be able to change at this point.
first attempt was almost there, there 2-3 restarts and finally got it done on 4th try
now just to do trials and to level a hunter..
I didn't watch the whole thing, so boo on me. But I can say that while I think the primary motivation for the change was PVP (getting rid of plentiful OHKO weapons/abilities), I do enjoy that moving snipers from Special to Power means that in PVE content I can ignore sniper rifles.
I'm a pretty poor sniper, and knowing that high level PVE content like Raids damn near required always using a sniper (in particular Black Hammer/Spindle) felt like a non-choice.
I enjoy that the new setup gives me choices in Kinetic/Energy instead of always defaulting to Scout/Sniper/GjallaSleeper or some such. All PVE content after a while had me rocking either Visions, the King's Fall pulse I can't recall, or Burning Eye in Y3.
Actually swapping weapons by encounter during Leviathan is something that previously was just not a thing.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
What's the difference and what's the rewards?
I'm pretty confident this is one of the major reasons @erevar has problems with Destiny 2 compared to Destiny 1.
The game has literally removed sniping from its core gameplay loop and thats a huge shame, imo.
Yeah but Calus is basically the only time I think I've ever felt like swapping weapons was anything but a random whim. The moment to moment gameplay of Destiny 2 PvE is that Kinetic vs Energy is a meaningless difference 99% of the time and you just pick whichever tickles your fancy at the time.
so after 2 IBs I am titan 0/5, warlock 1/5, hunter 4/5, weapons only missing 1.
what the actual hell. So I'll have to turn in on hunter for a 3rd straight event to probably not even finish the set because S2 will add to the loot pool I'm sure.
This is the worst kind of discrimination. the kind against me!
On the plus side, I shoulder tackled two people dead right when they popped golden guns and i knifed a fist of havoc titan in between jumps so I feel like a melee GOD right now
I love blowing aliens up with rockets as much as the next guy, but I really miss sniping. They don't belong in the same category of weapons.
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5/5 Hunter (+1)
4/5 Titan (+3)
4/5 Warlock (+2? I forget)
Tons of weapons and duplicates.
just a bit harder (think its at 300 light recommended instead of 230)
and it has a strict timer (17 mins) to finish or you fail
and by strick i mean you must plan ahead on certain encounters and use the weeks modifiers (torrent) to spam grenades
not overly difficult, just a bit annoying since random red health adds can 2 shot you etc
Yes in that the controller setup would have difficulty supporting it. You'd need to change the weapon swap system and everyone would need to relearn it and rebalance around it.
Ignoring that it's not a terrible suggestion but still leaves you with 2 mostly redundant primary weapons.
Eh. Using sniper rifles as a main DPS weapon seems really fucking weird. The point of snipers is usually that they don't do the highest DPS. Their reload and shots per minute values should preclude that. The point of a sniper rifle is supposed to be one (or a few) big life-ending shots from way downtown, not unloading them as fast as possible into a giant stationary target.
Edit: also, I absolutely love how there is a notice in-game today telling you that Season 1 is ending soon, be sure to buy the exotic emote that was for sale last week because you can't after that! It's just the worst fucking optics with these guys lately.
Yes, that's how you're supposed to fight. Energy to strip shields, Kinetic to strip bone structure.
Nobody does it.
I also feel like if we could, in PVE, swap between power weapons (another good use for a hold the button get a wheel widget) it would go a long way to addressing a lot of the complaints. Because I think they all have their uses, but if you're gonna have to pick one its likely gonna be rockets. And swapping them around costs too much time and ammo.
I personally like the two primary one power loadout and the resulting ups and downs of ammo management. Two primaries lets you cover a variety of situations, and gives you a little minigame of managing the ammo between them (using one seems to drop more ammo for the other), and it makes using your power weapon feel significant. But then I also like using those primaries.
I can see why people would prefer a bunch of the things in the video/post, but I think they are mostly different things, not necessarily better things.
I do it! ...sometimes.
Well, people do it sometimes. I do it when it's an option. It's just shields aren't common enough to warrant a whole weapon slot devoted to popping them.
I do sometimes but it's somewhat muddled by my energy weapon being an exotic which is still really good even on unshielded enemies. It would be more consistent if I had a better kinetic
Plus sometimes there's a strike challenge to kill x enemies using a specified element which makes energy weapons stay out longer.
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That'd be great, but I don't know how practical it'd be to implement.
I like having two primaries in both PvP and PvE, but it's not worth sacrificing the special weapon slot. The energy slot as-is feels like an afterthought in PvE.
Splitting PvE and PvP would instantly solve a ton of problems for the game but Bungie has made not doing that a core design philosophy so we are pretty hosed.
Yeah, they fit that niche in PvP, but all of the raid encounters don't allow for long range, safe sniping like that, so it's not really an useful design niche in the PvE environment that Bungie has created.
How to spot a PC player. :rotate:
For the records, hand cannons are supposed to compete with auto-rifles at short range.
Engagement ranges (Short > Long):
SMG = Sidearm > Hand Cannon = Auto-Rifle > Pulse Rifle > Scout Rifle
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But only partially.
it just makes sense because you don't have to reload when the enemy is at a sliver of health left that way, just swap after the shield pops
Yeah, but how often does this really come up? It's like the shield stripping thing. It's a good idea but the game rarely every requires the function. The two functions also somewhat work at cross purposes, although that can be considered a good thing for forcing interesting decisions in your loadout. By adding it in though you compress the available space for other weapons to just one slot though and I really don't think it's all that worth the trade-off as currently designed.
Honestly, I wonder if maybe they should just tone down snipers and shotguns and the like somewhat and just make them available in the energy slot.
it used to be more of a good/better/best thing where you secondary (now energy) weapon was like an in between regular and super powerful, so you'd use each situationally
now it's basically two guns you swap just to keep ammo in them
Assuming the enemy isn't dead long before you need to reload. Especially if you are matching shield types, you will easily gun them down. You gotta be an yellow bar before that's not true in my experience and with those you probably gonna need to reload your kinetic anyway.
And of course, none of them are that common anyway.
I find myself rarely if ever running out of ammo. The raid is probably the only place it seems to maybe happen sometimes.
Or I guess if I'm using exclusively my energy weapon in PvE I do find myself needing to occasionally swap to kinetic. But never from kinetic to energy for ammo.