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Need help with school HR and job reputation
manwiththemachinegun
METAL GEAR?!Registered User regular
METAL GEAR?!Registered User regular
So, I had worked part time for a community college teaching a Personal Training class. I have a masters in teaching, and I'm leaving field for physical therapy (because of crap like this).
So, I was told by my supervising mentor I did a good job, did the whole time without any "official" documentation that I did anything different. I asked if I could get a good reference and she said yes.
Now to come out after the fact, she was "pissed" I didn't reply to her emails, enough that (I was able to read between the lines) applying for a frigging SUBSTITUTE TEACHER position at another school, I was declined by being labeled a problem case. I can only surmise they said, "did a good/decent job. Would not rehire if given the opportunity."
She also related a rumor she had heard that I had "fought" with HR. Again, there is no write up or any coroboration to this, no investigation. Just someone I pissed off in HR when I laughed and said, "Yeah, it's nice you guys read my resume for once!" Apparently, someone was so bent out of shape they IMMEDIATELY called the dean of instruction, and again, there was no conversation or any paperwork I sat in on that said there was a complaint made against me.
It's fucking INFURATING because I was told the whole semester I did a good job, and after using me to teach a class, they are not only, essentially, building a case to not have me return, but giving me a bad reference after I asked if I could use them for a good one.
I know legal action isn't even worth it. But I need to know my legal rights when I talk to the dean of instruction about this. My points are the following:
I was not told that email was the sole method of correspondence between myself and my mentor. Nothing prevented me from doing any and all responsibilities of my job. At my classroom performance evaluation, nothing about this was brought to my attention. My mentor did say, "overall" I was good as a teacher, thank God. But with the forced grin, "we don't know" about having you come back. Which is bullshit.
Said teacher reference relayed a rumor that I had a "fight" with HR, again, without any official corroboration.
When asked point blank if THIS school would ever hire me back, I was told, "maybe" (which means NO, RADIOACTIVE in education terms), again, without any official documentation with my being aware of.
This said school also screwed me over by saying they would pay me for ACE certification (I had NASM at the time) and two weeks into the quarter said they wouldn't.
It's infuriating because I did 99% good work, and the 1% I did wrong (which is debatable even there), is being used to keep me from a good reference, and is actually turning a good one to a bad one that I can't ever use again. I need to know what my rights and recourse is to protect my reputation. From what I understand, complaints have to be made promptly, documented, and this is six months on. So basically rumor damage control. I know nothing can "officially" ever be done to prevent people from lying about you, but this seems extra sketchy to me.
So, I was told by my supervising mentor I did a good job, did the whole time without any "official" documentation that I did anything different. I asked if I could get a good reference and she said yes.
Now to come out after the fact, she was "pissed" I didn't reply to her emails, enough that (I was able to read between the lines) applying for a frigging SUBSTITUTE TEACHER position at another school, I was declined by being labeled a problem case. I can only surmise they said, "did a good/decent job. Would not rehire if given the opportunity."
She also related a rumor she had heard that I had "fought" with HR. Again, there is no write up or any coroboration to this, no investigation. Just someone I pissed off in HR when I laughed and said, "Yeah, it's nice you guys read my resume for once!" Apparently, someone was so bent out of shape they IMMEDIATELY called the dean of instruction, and again, there was no conversation or any paperwork I sat in on that said there was a complaint made against me.
It's fucking INFURATING because I was told the whole semester I did a good job, and after using me to teach a class, they are not only, essentially, building a case to not have me return, but giving me a bad reference after I asked if I could use them for a good one.
I know legal action isn't even worth it. But I need to know my legal rights when I talk to the dean of instruction about this. My points are the following:
I was not told that email was the sole method of correspondence between myself and my mentor. Nothing prevented me from doing any and all responsibilities of my job. At my classroom performance evaluation, nothing about this was brought to my attention. My mentor did say, "overall" I was good as a teacher, thank God. But with the forced grin, "we don't know" about having you come back. Which is bullshit.
Said teacher reference relayed a rumor that I had a "fight" with HR, again, without any official corroboration.
When asked point blank if THIS school would ever hire me back, I was told, "maybe" (which means NO, RADIOACTIVE in education terms), again, without any official documentation with my being aware of.
This said school also screwed me over by saying they would pay me for ACE certification (I had NASM at the time) and two weeks into the quarter said they wouldn't.
It's infuriating because I did 99% good work, and the 1% I did wrong (which is debatable even there), is being used to keep me from a good reference, and is actually turning a good one to a bad one that I can't ever use again. I need to know what my rights and recourse is to protect my reputation. From what I understand, complaints have to be made promptly, documented, and this is six months on. So basically rumor damage control. I know nothing can "officially" ever be done to prevent people from lying about you, but this seems extra sketchy to me.
manwiththemachinegun on
0
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If you're talking to the deen, just let them know how shocked you were when you had requested to use the mentor as a reference and rather than just say no they used it as an opportunity to disparage you to a prospective employer. And mention that the other job had mentioned specific HR issues that you were completely unaware of (but sorry for none the less).
Make a note never to include them as a reference or to allow future employers to contact them (someone else here might be able to say if listing "do not contact" is a bad idea or not) and move on to PT school. Once you graduate from that it won't be considered relevant work experience anyway.
Lastly, since you didn't seem to deny it happened, respond to emails. It is something that shows a lack of professionalism which you'll need no matter what field you're in. I can honestly say that co-workers or professional contacts not responding when I email them with a question or to set up a meeting is a major pet peeve.
I would not list this person as a specific reference or course, but I also wouldn't be worried about them badmouthing you to a future employer.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Thanks, THAT'S the thing that bugged me the most. Obviously I won't use that person as a reference, but the dean should be aware that said incident was just that, hearsay.
I can see lack of professionalism. That being said. As a teacher on paper I received a good mentor evaluation and good student reviews. In my 5+ years in education, with my kind of credentials, I have NEVER heard of a teacher being decline a job boiled down to, "didn't answer emails". I can tell you of five teachers I know right now who do, and they still have their jobs for sure. And they DON'T have masters degrees.
I know this is a tenure, pecking order thing which is why I'm so furious to begin with. I plan to play it very cool with the dean, but I do want to use some of the information here to keep it pithy and snappy.
#1 My time at the school was not accurately judged, nor was that information properly relayed when I asked in good faith for a reference.
#2 That there are "concerns" about me being taking on another teaching job with this school when no official paperwork or complaint was filed. No steps were followed. By not letting me, de facto, apply for future jobs, I'm essentially fired AND blacklisted by this school.
#3 I was never made aware of this issues while I was an employee.
I know it's a popularity contest, but I want to fight this for pride if nothing else. I don't plan on throwing any money at it.
Hello, college administrator here!
Not responding to professional correspondence is absolutely grounds for negative review beyond student perception of instruction ratings (SPIs). Having positive SPIs is necessary to keep working, but so too is working positively within the university bureaucracy. My guess here is that, between multiple instances of lack of professionalism combined with alienating your contacts within the administration you burned all the bridges needed to continue working.
If you go back to education in the future, keep in mind that the classroom is only ~40% of the job. The other 60% (most of which is politics and understanding institution culture) is also essential in keeping your position and thriving.
If this was a state institution (and most community colleges are), they will be banned from providing any form of negative review beyond the institution. Internally there are many ways they can convey a negative review within the legal framework, but from institution to institution it likely will be something along the lines of "X worked here from this date to that date" and when asked about rehiring they likely will say "I have no comment" which means the same thing to any hiring manager.
Concerning #1 - you aren't entitled a reference and accuracy in judgement is never going to happen in any field if you make political enemies.
Concerning #2 - official complaints aren't actually required in many cases, though they do help with terminations in the public sector. More likely you were on adjunct contract or a VI appointment with soft money, so when it came time to renew your contract they simply decided not to. Which sucks, but is common. You can certainly apply to more jobs at the institution, but if your alienated HR or the upper-level hiring managers that will be tough to get around. There likely isnt some database blacklisting you, but if anyone you offended is in the hiring chain for the school (and community colleges are usually tiny), it's not gonna matter. They can find a thousand and one ways to say someone else was more qualified without breaking any laws.
Concerning #3 - Subtext is your most powerful weapon. Whatever you did, you did it strong enough to make a real bad impression. It doesn't sound so much as being railroaded so much as creating enemies you didn't need across several offices. Telling HR something passive aggressive like "looks like you finally checked my resume!", even in jest, implies a lot of bad shit about their profession, their professionalism, and their personal work ethics. It's just a terrible thing to say. It probably caused many other things you said to, henceforth, be taken as hostile.
Take it as a lesson learned and in the future be more mindful of making friends across your institution, especially the paperwork bureaucrats behind the scenes. Most institutions are, in essence, run by a handful of clerks that keep the wheels running and are permanent, while administrators come and go and are mostly trained and rely heavily on those clerks. If the clerk says you had some kind of personality problem in the past, the administrators tend to listen.
Those clerks also tend to put in a shit ton of hours for a tiny amount of pay and take shit from faculty 24-7 who constantly look down on them (even when many of them have BA, MA, MS, PHD, or EDDs but choose to serve in a different capacity), so putting any kind of shit out there is deeply felt in an already gaping wound. Make friends with college staff and you will be able to go really far and have every question you ever need found quickly and helpfully. Make enemies with them and this sort of thing eventually happens.
Faculty hires cannot be offered verbal assurances in nearly every instance, and doing so is against many state policies (at least in Florida, New York, and California, though I would expect most other states as well). This is both because it likely violates state competitive hiring practices requirements (i.e. giving preferential treatment to a candidate before search) and also because if there is a Faculty Union it likely violates several forms of collective bargaining requirements with hires (such as having set search criteria, etc.).
I've done adjunct, GTA, and VI hiring over the years, and I would likely have been fired or formally rebuked for making such a statement with a positive response. It may happen (especially from non-administrative faculty mostly unfamiliar with policy), but that would be the expected statement from anyone following the book.
There is also the fact that state budgets vary greatly from year to year, making the possibility of continuing the budget almost always murky when looking into the future. Often departments don't know if they will find money to offer all their staple courses and keep their main faculty and instructor lines, much less adjunct, VI, or GTA positions.
I went to HR to find the source of the complaint and spoke with the HR director friendly and candidly. I mentioned any comments on my part were simply of a joking nature, and I was serious about my professional conduct and reputation. Said HR supervisor (the supposed source of the complaint) couldn't even remember the incident. I likewise spoke with the dean of instruction regarding my teaching there, and had mention that it was a mistake on his part, and that any concerns about my performance should have been brought to my attention right away.
In short, as I had originally surmised. It was an unfortunate lapse on the part of my mentor relaying the rumor, who had mentioned that while she was *irritated* with my not getting back to her via email, she had had far more serious talks with other employees. Again, this person was under no obligation to give a reference. I could have gone to any number of other staff who observed my classroom.
Thus, while mistakes were made, it was not the bomb I was anticipating.
Hopefully that mentor is removed from the rotation, though.