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[WoW Classic] Launching on August 27th.

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Posts

  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    BWL was also typically cleared within a week of going live on any Blizzlike private server, Nostalrius being no exception. To the point where most "blizzlike" private servers implement across the board buffs to every raid instance to stop it being consumed so quickly.

    I don't think private servers are any kind of good measure of a vanilla raid experience. In vanilla BWL came out in July and wasn't completed till almost October.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    Y'all must have been in some strict ass guilds. I recall my boyfriend (now husband) enchanting a grey quality trash sword with Crusader so we could trade it to our main tank when he forgot to repair his weapon before the raid AGAIN. I don't think something like that would fly in the guilds y'all are talking about, but in ours he wasn't even demoted from main tank. I was second offtank and I spent a good portion of MC raiding with a dagger as my main weapon, and other than looking to see I had a shield equipped, no one ever two shits what my spec was. My husband was a shadow priest. Maybe we had vastly different Vanilla experiences that has led to us viewing it in different lights.

    So y'all also can have your options about what makes Vanilla bad and current content good. But someone of us disagree and have an opposite position, and it's nice that we are going to have a WoW for us again.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited March 2018
    Stragint wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    BWL was also typically cleared within a week of going live on any Blizzlike private server, Nostalrius being no exception. To the point where most "blizzlike" private servers implement across the board buffs to every raid instance to stop it being consumed so quickly.

    I don't think private servers are any kind of good measure of a vanilla raid experience. In vanilla BWL came out in July and wasn't completed till almost October.

    What the raids were like during actual vanilla is completely irrelevant. It won't be like that. What they're like during modern vanilla private server experiences is far more applicable.

    Dhalphir on
  • RanlinRanlin Oh gosh Registered User regular
    There's a disconnect between what people are thinking about when they talk about Vanilla raiding.

    MC/BWL were very easy to power through with like 10 people doing all the work, with minor exception where maybe a few more people needed to take the pants off their head.

    By the time you got to AQ40 and especially Naxx, it was much harder and you couldn't get away with that.

  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    BWL was also typically cleared within a week of going live on any Blizzlike private server, Nostalrius being no exception. To the point where most "blizzlike" private servers implement across the board buffs to every raid instance to stop it being consumed so quickly.

    I don't think private servers are any kind of good measure of a vanilla raid experience. In vanilla BWL came out in July and wasn't completed till almost October.

    Nef was literally unkillable for a fair while. A ton of guild got to him, and then suddenly one reset everyone kills it at the same time. Was similar for MC and AQ as far as I know.

  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Frozenzen wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    BWL was also typically cleared within a week of going live on any Blizzlike private server, Nostalrius being no exception. To the point where most "blizzlike" private servers implement across the board buffs to every raid instance to stop it being consumed so quickly.

    I don't think private servers are any kind of good measure of a vanilla raid experience. In vanilla BWL came out in July and wasn't completed till almost October.

    Nef was literally unkillable for a fair while. A ton of guild got to him, and then suddenly one reset everyone kills it at the same time. Was similar for MC and AQ as far as I know.

    It also didn't help that getting 40 people their ony cloaks didnt exactly happen overnight, and people struggled with the concept of "get behind the throne" to LoS the shadowflame.

    The raids will definitely be pretty faceroll because a lot of people will be trying to min/max in a situation that they don't need to at all, and it's not like the fights will be new, and players will be much better informed about gear and rotations. I'll be raiding in a pvp spec until naxx, and it won't matter one bit.
    Stragint wrote: »

    Look, I don't think there is really any point in talking about this anymore because I absolutely do not believe you.

    It could be true and that was your experience which would basically mean your guild was both best guild in the world and the laziest because if you are carrying a majority of dead players through MC, BWL, AQ, and Naxx then there would be no reason your guild to not have all the world firsts.

    I've been in all of those raids in vanilla with my geared and well coordinated guild and there is no way we could have carried 80% of the raid being dead through AQ or Naxx fights. MAYBE some MC and BWL bosses but not many. Not even just my guild, I was friends with people in the top end guilds on my servers and got a lot of tips from them and we would talk about how ridiculous some of those fights were.

    I know I said there isn't any point in this conversation and then made a big post but I just wanted to explain why I'm bailing on this conversation. I'm really happy for you if that was your raiding experience because that sounds awesome but I just can't believe it.

    I would absolutely say our guild fits being really good AND really lazy. We had a good chunk of people that had left Imperial Order (google holding AQ40 hostage) or the other top guilds on the server, and wanted a less serious and demanding raiding schedule. There were times when people got caught playing one of the poker addons during a raid, people ran into each other on the PTR while we were doing MC on live, and we killed a lot of afk people who autofollowed others into lava. probably about 1/4 of our raid were just hardcore pvpers who only raided to get gear, another 1/4 that really liked pve, and the rest were pretty much just people along for the ride, friends, family, we even brought a chinese gold farmer along for a couple runs because we gave him runecloth and he gave us potions. It's true aq40 is where we started hitting problems, but we still managed to buckle down and kill things. By the time we bothered messing in naxx, we did it for like 2 months, then they announced the TBC prepatch was coming out, and everyone said screw it, and waited the month or two to farm in the new honor system for any gear they were missing.

    As an aside on the gold farmer, we decked him out in like 2 runs, and he was absolutely merciless after in killing people who were screwing with his farming spot in azshara. Was the absolute funniest thing to watch. We even got to learn how much he made, and about his family and stuff since we had someone in the guild who could speak/read/write mandarin.

    Maybe my guild was just magical christmasland, but even when i did dungeons outside of guild stuff people didn't care, and people from our guild went on alt-raids with some of the other top guilds all the time, and nobody really cared there either, they just needed bodies, buffs, and decursers.

  • SkeithSkeith Registered User regular
    Decomposey wrote: »
    Y'all must have been in some strict ass guilds. I recall my boyfriend (now husband) enchanting a grey quality trash sword with Crusader so we could trade it to our main tank when he forgot to repair his weapon before the raid AGAIN.

    Shit, I used to drop repair bots in BWL on hunter calls.

    aTBDrQE.jpg
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    I have the farmers broom I got from the farm in tirisfal glades on my warlock as I did question how is this a weapon
    I used it to level my enchanting till I got firey and kept it on it so I will always have a fiery broom
    zglmgomuopxj.jpg

  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    The way Vanilla was structured, you could actually do a ton of the damn game naked. Because half the classes didn't gain jack shit from equipment anyway till halfway through the progression of raids, and even then as was stated the game mathematically was easy as shit. People just absolutely sucked as at it.

    So yeah, if legit Vanilla wow comes and everything is the same, every single build is going to be viable because in many cases NO build would even be viable. Talent everything into frostbolt, then spam scorch. You could still finish AQ40 with 39 others being just as silly if you play the rest of the game right.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    oh man that's right, intellect just made you have a bigger mana pool didn't it, they had to add explicit spell power and healing power stats to bandaid the fact that caster throughput didn't scale off any of the original gear stats except like... crit chance? I think there was very occasionally crit chance on a handful of 1.0 vanilla gear right?

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Well int also gave crit too. So it wasnt completely bad. Stamina was actually useful too since a lot of things could 1 shot you. Mp5 was where it was at though. Thats like all i stacked on my druid and i had infinite mana.

    I agree that pretty much every spec will be viable. People are mostly better players and the mechanics are almost non-existant. I think the part that a lot of people will hate is no dual spec/respeccing cost. People will bitch about how hard it is to make gold and those more hybrid specs start to make a lot more sense than the min/maxed ones.

  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    The crit gained by int was super insignificant. But yeah, pretty much you found those rare 1 or 2+ crit items which was before rating, and then eventually they actually started giving you hit which was the biggest increase you could get. People used to ignore the rings in MC that gave 20 spellpower over int gear because they felt obliged to due to RPG standards. So people played the game super duper suboptimally. At least the melee characters could pretty much be good with any gear and their natural instincts to get strength would be rewarded. It was kind of subverted by the fact casters had a ton of natural damage on spells which is why until like late AQ or even Naxx they could be fairly effective completely naked.

  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    It was great for a while that nobody wanted spell power, i picked up quite a few pieces on my druid really early. I was probably the most geared balance druid on the server until people cleared aq40 before us. It was always funny when i dueled people and they were mystified how hard my starfire crit.

  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    When I got some of the glove enchants I made so much gold back then as I horded my enchanting stuff since no one really wanted enchants at the time

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Stragint wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    BWL was also typically cleared within a week of going live on any Blizzlike private server, Nostalrius being no exception. To the point where most "blizzlike" private servers implement across the board buffs to every raid instance to stop it being consumed so quickly.
    I don't think private servers are any kind of good measure of a vanilla raid experience. In vanilla BWL came out in July and wasn't completed till almost October.
    Launch BWL is not the same as 1.10 BWL. Shit was fucking broken as hell when it first came out.

    YL9WnCY.png
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    They never admitted anything being impossible or patched in raids back in the day, just silently changed them in hotfixes after a month or two and pretended everyone suddenly getting past the stonewall boss in the same week was A Coincidence.

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    BWL was also typically cleared within a week of going live on any Blizzlike private server, Nostalrius being no exception. To the point where most "blizzlike" private servers implement across the board buffs to every raid instance to stop it being consumed so quickly.
    I don't think private servers are any kind of good measure of a vanilla raid experience. In vanilla BWL came out in July and wasn't completed till almost October.
    Launch BWL is not the same as 1.10 BWL. Shit was fucking broken as hell when it first came out.

    Everyone blamed Vael on the lag until they improved the servers. Being insane enough to progression raid on Tuesday was madness.

  • BartholamueBartholamue Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    I would say Cataclysm started off excellent and went downhill with a too-slow drip feed of lackluster content.

    Sort of like Warlords too. The experience at the start was fun, but then garrisons became a slog and they ran out of content a year before the new expansion would be ready.

    I have to wonder if the planned raid that was going to be in Shattrath would've made the expansion better in WoD.

    Steam- SteveBartz Xbox Live- SteveBartz PSN Name- SteveBartz
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    I would say Cataclysm started off excellent and went downhill with a too-slow drip feed of lackluster content.

    Sort of like Warlords too. The experience at the start was fun, but then garrisons became a slog and they ran out of content a year before the new expansion would be ready.

    I have to wonder if the planned raid that was going to be in Shattrath would've made the expansion better in WoD.

    Couldn't have done much to hurt.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    They never admitted anything being impossible or patched in raids back in the day, just silently changed them in hotfixes after a month or two and pretended everyone suddenly getting past the stonewall boss in the same week was A Coincidence.

    Launch C'thun was proved mathematically impossible, and I believe they copped to it. Launch BWL drakes were effectively impossible for horde due to the deaggro and no Salv. (You could do it, but not... Well.) They didn't so much as "admit" that as they did change the boss mechanic in a patch.

    Vael was doable at launch, just A: Lag and B: Threat meters weren't a well-developed thing, so your tank order could get squirrely, especially horde-side. Tuesday was not a fun day to raid.

  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    edited April 2018
    I was so mad the day BWL released. My first guild in vanilla was Vodka, they were top 5 in the world or very close and I was only in the guild cause my older brother's friend was a core raider.

    They had MC on farm and took me once to get me gear which was cool but I was young an didn't really understand dkp.

    So BWL comes out and I'm still mostly in blues and just been goofing off while they crush MC. They invited me to the group to get the quest done to teleport into BWL and I was really excited cause I was in the raid group and was going to get to check out the raid day 1.

    Turns out they just wanted me to sit in UBRS to keep the dungeon from resetting so the core raid group could zone in from UBRS and they could get started. It was very disappointing.

    I ended up quitting soon after that cause I wanted to farm two Skullforge Reavers because they had that purple glow and I thought it was really cool and some dude in the guild went on a shit talking rant at me and I quit because it pissed me off. They started telling people I was a ninja which was hilarious because one time the guild leader shut off guild chat and spent 15 minutes yelling at the guild for ninja looting non stop and getting a bad reputation.

    The guild I joined after that was much cooler and I got to be a core raider.

    Stragint on
    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • KlatuKlatu Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi OiRegistered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Enigmedic wrote: »

    Well we killed plenty of bosses with 80% of the taid dead because people couldnt do mechanics. Geddon, shazzrah, sartura, and >>onyxia<< have distinct memories of doing them with like 5 people for half the fight.

    Maybe my guild just had a huge stratification of skill, but we never benched anyone for being poor dps. I even distinctly remember those people refusing loot we wanted to give them to help them improve in favor of better dps. They just wanted to come hang out and down bosses. And even despite not being great dps they still got their fr and more importantly nr gear so they could soak huhuran.

    It seemed to work for us. We ended up killing about half the bosses in naxx which most guilds didn't even step foot inside of. It certainly wasn't easy carrying so many people, but we liked the people not their character’s dps, so we progressed slower, but we had remarkably low turnover.

    I'm wondering if we were in the same guild... we had plenty of fights where over half the raid got wiped during Ony when we had it on farm mode just so they didn't have to do anything (probably). We'd often finish that fight with only a few members standing. Towards the end of "needing" to do Ony we'd split our raid in to 2 groups of 20 and do Ony, just to finish off getting everyone cloaks/Ony heads faster.

    wrt class diversity... I have to agree with laughing Bender.

    Pally/shaman/priest/druid: healbot/cleanse bots. Unless you were the lucky shaman that got to be windfury bot for everyone.
    Rogues: combat (I think?)
    Mage: frost
    Warriors could be arms if they weren't tanking - except when that Georges thunderfury video came out in Nef fight, everyone wanted to be fury then, and failed at it.
    I'd argue that warlocks got a little more diversity than warriors though, we didn't really regulate our warlocks too much (only 2 of them) we didn't mind what build they went as they weren't window lickers that died every fight.

    Hunters, don't care (not because they could have build diversity, I just pretended hunters didn't exist).

    Klatu on
    Steam id:Klatu - PS id: Klatu_PA - 3DS FC: 0920-0528-6680
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Warlocks just couldn't really do anything due to lack of a threat reduction talent. I literally wanded bosses until around 50% before I even started up the turbines. Then I would chain crit shadowbolts and would have to stop again because the improved shadowbolt debuff combined with ruin was just stupid. Warlocks were really just there to summon tanks when they had to go repair, hand out healthstones to the tanks and maybe a good rogue dps, and banish the odd thing in MC. Until twin emps to tank and patchwerk, warlocks just did too much damage compared to threat generation. Not to mention some uptight healers would just complain that you were life tapping.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    Warlocks just couldn't really do anything due to lack of a threat reduction talent. I literally wanded bosses until around 50% before I even started up the turbines. Then I would chain crit shadowbolts and would have to stop again because the improved shadowbolt debuff combined with ruin was just stupid. Warlocks were really just there to summon tanks when they had to go repair, hand out healthstones to the tanks and maybe a good rogue dps, and banish the odd thing in MC. Until twin emps to tank and patchwerk, warlocks just did too much damage compared to threat generation. Not to mention some uptight healers would just complain that you were life tapping.

    "Want to hear a WORLD OF WARCRAFT joke ?"

    "Sure."

    "Wands."

  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Judgement of wisdom = wanding for mana in longer fights

  • KlatuKlatu Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi OiRegistered User regular
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    Warlocks just couldn't really do anything due to lack of a threat reduction talent. I literally wanded bosses until around 50% before I even started up the turbines. Then I would chain crit shadowbolts and would have to stop again because the improved shadowbolt debuff combined with ruin was just stupid. Warlocks were really just there to summon tanks when they had to go repair, hand out healthstones to the tanks and maybe a good rogue dps, and banish the odd thing in MC. Until twin emps to tank and patchwerk, warlocks just did too much damage compared to threat generation. Not to mention some uptight healers would just complain that you were life tapping.

    Fair enough, makes sense then why warlocks would often be the target of choice (if it wasn't a rogue) when I'd DI the tank and watch the raid boss go off to whoever was 2nd on threat :D

    In my defence MC was well on farm when I did that and we were doing rapid clears even with shenanigans.

    Steam id:Klatu - PS id: Klatu_PA - 3DS FC: 0920-0528-6680
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Yeah the threat management was stupid. No idea how horde warlocks did anything without salvation. Raiding on my warlock was boring but it got me gear to go pvping. Raiding is pretty easymode when you could just set it to wand and watch tv/netflix and dodge the occasional aoe, and hand out healthstones to the tank or something. It's why most of the warlocks in my guild had alts of other classes, because we wanted to actually do something. In addition, the only mana efficient spell was searing pain, and it caused EXTRA threat. So you could only use it on patchwerk lol. Keeping up curse of elements for the mages was basically the only job.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    hypothetically warlocks were supposed to fuel their big mana costs by hitting life tap a lot and using drain life to get that HP back, right? it's been so long I can't clearly remember what the pre-modern-specs warlock kit looked like

    BahamutZERO on
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  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    that's probably what the design doc said the goal was yeah

    the numbers working out that way are another matter

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  • KlatuKlatu Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi OiRegistered User regular
    I can't remember, could affliction locks get too high in threat if they started out early on fights in vanilla? I know very early vanilla you couldn't be affliction because there were only 8? slots for debuffs, which meant warriors couldn't spec bleed things either. It got doubled to 16 or 18 after a while, but it still wasn't enough for 40 man raids.

    Steam id:Klatu - PS id: Klatu_PA - 3DS FC: 0920-0528-6680
  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    i don't think anyone in vanilla knew what affliction threat was, for the reasons you went on to describe

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  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    furlion wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    Vanilla was a weird ass place. Specs were very limited and DPS was weird too. My friend who was in one of the top 5 guilds world wide at the time DPSed MC with the primary raid group using the Skullforge Reavers on his Rogue and was top DPS.

    The game was also just a mess for PVP. I'll never forget world of roguecraft or how I killed a level Rogue that tried to gank me on my level 50 Warlock.

    Mages were basically forced to play Frost or gtfo. Hunters basically rolling need for anything cause they could equip anything.

    Let's see if I remember correctly : Only restoration druids and shamans, only holy priests and paladins, and only protection warriors. And if you did not show up with enough reagents to recast your raid wide buffs over and over again you were in deep shit.

    f78ikbmc3e1e.png

    Didn't most tanks not even hardly touch the Protection tree?

    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: Arthil
  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    No, tanking warriors used a bunch from the Prot tree. That picture seems to be a DPS warrior whose build is all over the place, with a lot of stuff in Arms but not taking the good stuff, and points in fury.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Affliction could be even worse than destro because there were +shadow damage talents, nightfall procs, and imp shadowbolt would cause dots to tick 20% harder too. Also if you went far enough to get dark pact, your mana problems werent as bad so you had more uptime too. Playing vanilla was actually really thematically on point, you were always riding the line of getting yourself killed.

  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    oof.. there's a whole section of my brain dedicated to "wanding for mana" that was blocked off until today...

    bad memories

    I can echo the "most of these fights seemed conspicuously doable by 7 people with the other 33 dead"... i have vivid memories of really long kills in BWL that played out like that

    in the early days of WoW information on optimal play was REALLY scarce. there was no icy veins. a lot of people got really far without really learning what weapon skill did, or the idea that hit was better than crit, and that was a bigger check on guilds than most of the encounters were

    i dont know what any of this will mean for WoW classic.. but I do know that peoples memories of raiding are WAY more rose tinted than is warranted

    for me, the value of WoW classis is absolutely NOT 40 man raiding. i'm one of those people who liked the level up grind though, and feeling like I lived in that world, instead of just walking through it like disneyland, and your character being YOUR character, and not just a weapon you pull out of your holster to eat through content

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    You absolutely were not going to have 25 players afk in naxx and be able to beat it.

    But you could probably get away with it in MC.

    BWL was "okay everyone take yourself off follow we're almost to lashlayer"

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    you could def do bwl with less people, since you pretty much mega throttled dps for most of the bosses anyway.

  • dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    Decomposey wrote: »
    No, tanking warriors used a bunch from the Prot tree. That picture seems to be a DPS warrior whose build is all over the place, with a lot of stuff in Arms but not taking the good stuff, and points in fury.

    Not initially. Common tanking build to start went 31 Arms for MS, then enough prot for I think some improved something talent.

    Warriors were PRETTY stupid at launch... And after launch... And most of Vanilla...

  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    dporowski wrote: »
    Decomposey wrote: »
    No, tanking warriors used a bunch from the Prot tree. That picture seems to be a DPS warrior whose build is all over the place, with a lot of stuff in Arms but not taking the good stuff, and points in fury.

    Not initially. Common tanking build to start went 31 Arms for MS, then enough prot for I think some improved something talent.

    Warriors were PRETTY stupid at launch... And after launch... And most of Vanilla...

    Then I guess I was more of a total scrub tank, because I leveled putting my points in the prot tree.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    Ah, 40 man raiding.

    I went from tagging along (ele/enh shaman relegated to standing back and healing), to making everyone FR gear, and culminating in leading several raids while the leaders were absent.

    I discovered that stressing out while 30+ people /w you to tell you that you're doing it wrong isn't particularly fun.

    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
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This discussion has been closed.