The Alliance had a distinct and measurable advantage with regard to PvE content in Vanilla. I played a Shaman throughout almost the entirety of Classic, and I was jealous down to my bones of Paladins and the utility they could bring to a progression raid group. The thing that people who didn't do Vanilla tend not to understand is that threat and resource management were huge factors you had to contend with. Yes, Windfury was awesome, but good melee DPS were pretty much already riding the Tank's ass in terms of threat generation, and Windfury added in random periods of uncontrolled burst, and that could get you into serious trouble. Also, the argument was never "Horde get Windfury and Alliance get Salvation"; remember that Windfury counted as a MH weapon buff, so Rogues couldn't coat their MH in poison if they wanted Windfury; Warriors couldn't use Elemental Sharpening Stones on their MH if they wanted Windfury; etc. The Alliance was benefiting from those alternative (and still substantial) MH weapon buffs that we were forgoing in exchange for Windfury. Does the Horde still come out ahead in terms of DPS than the Alliance? Probably. But like I said, we're already pretty much riding the Tank's ass so it's less of an issue than people make it out to be.
The bigger issue was that a lot of Shaman utility overlapped because good buffs competed for totem spots. Windfury, for example, uses the Air totem. So does Tranquil Air. And by the way, so does Grace of Air, and I believe Nature Resistance. So Horde groups could have 1 of those things at a time, basically; we had to choose between Windfury / Grace and Tranquil Air, offense or defense. Paladins just hit everyone in the Raid with Greater Blessings of Salvation and Might and were done with it. We also had to deal with it on the Water totem end, with Mana Spring / Tide competing with Fire Protection. Again, all the Alliance had to do was pop Greater Blessing of Wisdom and activate Fire Resistance Aura. Yeah, sure, the Aura only affected that Paladin's group, but Shaman Fire Resistance totems were on the same boat.
I wish I could talk about this longer, but I have to leave for work. End of the day? Yeah, Alliance had a huge PvE advantage in Vanilla WoW and it's not really something people can honestly still debate. It would be like debating that the Horde didn't have a massive advantage in Vanilla PvP with OG Orc stun resistance and Will of the Forsaken and shit -- there's no point arguing, it's a measurable fact.
Yes, Alliance for sure did have advantages in PVE. It wasn't mentioned, but Fear Ward was another major one. Especially against Onyxia.
But really. Even with all the advantages Alliance had in PVE, Horde never had any problem at all clearing content. I raided on both sides of the fence in vanilla, and Horde was never at a serious disadvantage.
Really, the biggest determining factor in a raid was how much of your 40 people were pulling their weight and how much were being carried. A full raid of 40 people who all carried their own weight could easily smash any content in vanilla. Those raids were easy, and they were designed around a large portion of the raid being useless.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Alliance had all the great buffs, but Horde had Bloodlust.
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
It’ll probably be bad when it’s new, and gradually simmer to a decent community when the population narrows to the people that actually want to be there
Once people realize that the community will remember them being dickwads they will eventually just peace out or roll new toons to get a better chance.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Really, the biggest determining factor in a raid was how much of your 40 people were pulling their weight and how much were being carried. A full raid of 40 people who all carried their own weight could easily smash any content in vanilla. Those raids were easy, and they were designed around a large portion of the raid being useless
This is another reason why, on a vast majority of servers, Alliance had the advantage in Vanilla. There was a massive population imbalance in Classic, which stemmed from a number of sources, and continued until the Horde got Blood Elves and Paladins in BC. When you have more people, you can afford to be a lot more choosey with regard to who you brought along to a raid. My raid had an absolute ton of dead weight. I'm sure every raid did. But the fact is, there were times when I'd log over to Alliance and see they had more level 60 NE Hunters online in the evening than the Horde had level 60 characters, period. That's a huge advantage, because Alliance could take the right people and we had to take whoever we could find.
But on top of that, yeah, Alliance still had a massive advantage in end-game PvE content. Horde could do it, sure. We DID do it, but we often did it server second (all except Hakkar on Feathermoon, as I recall) and the Alliance rubbed our fucking noses in it every day. To the extent that it's literally still a sore subject lol.
god i forgot about the paladin blessings. yea. that was a definite thing. blessing of kings alone was what made lice raiding ez mode. 10% more HP? ok. 30% raid threat reduction? sure, that too. How about range specific dps buffs? how many paladins you got? sure why not.
i quit during mid BC, but the best moment in the game was when lice *finally* got ahold of shaman after bitching and moaning that frost shock solved everything... and threw a tantrum that horde got the better end of the class swap deal as well as belf racials and looks compared to russian squidfaces.
the lice on my server finally realized that our shamans were simply 'good' at what they did and what they had to work with.
they had to be or else no one would group with them.
still really fun to suddenly rip agro from the main tank with a windfury assisted shieldslam crit. 2x 2k dmg from a high threat shield attack? i hit harder in that burst than our dps on any single attack at that time... as a prot tank. (yes they still left me in the dust over time, point was, i could one shot someone in pvp with with a shield when those stars aligned, and it was glorious.)
yea, BRD was bullshit. but here's the funny thing. you could run through the proper way and it would take 4hours to complete.
or you took a shortcut down a cliff path into the orc camp and fighting to the wrymkin boss there. then dropped onto the troll and the ogre and cut it down to 2hours as a kind of Boss Blitz.
and it was fucking horrible because you NEED 3 gems from those bosses for the UBRS key and the gems were 10% drops and only 1 specific gem dropped per boss that could be looted by anyone, so.. Master Loot was flipped on during PUGs
I think you're thinking of LBRS? But yeah, LBRS, and particularly the key quest, was also pretty miserable. Which is why not a lot of people had the UBRS key, and you'd get a lot of "LF1M for UBRS, need key" type spam.
I don't remember it being a 10% drop rate for the gems (for the key, maybe). Running it as a 5 man, we got all the drops we needed with one kill, but that could just be poor memory....although you're right, we had specific people with keys.
What I *DO* remember, though, was our guild solving this issue by running LBRS and UBRS with 30 man raids and just having people who needed the gems leave the raid as the target was about to die (and rejoin after they looted, but before the minute timer ran out).
We got our people all attuned in no time. ALSO, it was a blast, as we'd have 100 gold guild bets awarded to the person who could successfully wipe the raid. Someone almost managed to pull it off in UBRS by shooting down at the orcs in a camp just before we went to fight Rend. A massive train showed up probably a full minute after he aggro'd the orcs.
****
WoW classic thoughts. It was great, loved it on my Warrior. That being said, I made a Troll to check, and the Troll did not have his "Kill two dwarfs" song. I was....sad.
Bizazedo on
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PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I remember doing UBRS and we didn't have the requisite amount / type of CC to deal with Drak's two warders, so our tank suggested he pull the boss back to the bridge and jump off, popping some engineering item to break his fall before landing essentially in LBRS. His theory was that Drak would path all the way through UBRS to catch him, and in the meantime, we could deal with the Warders by burning one down and chain-fearing the other without having to worry about the boss's mechanics. And while we're doing that, our tank, who was easily among the best geared and most experienced Warrior on the server, would meet Drak halfway through the instance and kite him back to us in the final area, popping defensives on the way to smooth out the run. Fuck it, makes sense.
Tank pulls, Drak chased him to the bridge, and the tank dives off. Drak then IMMEDIATELY turns toward the rest of us, I don't know if it was healing aggro or what, but he turned and ran at us and meanwhile our tank was down in fucking LBRS. It was a disaster but it was also hilarious. I miss that shit.
In TBC the Alliance got Bloodlust when Shaman were added to Draenei.
I disagree, and so does WoW Wiki:
Since the Paladin and Shaman classes are no longer unique to either faction, Blizzard added new abilities to each class to make them what they truly feel they should be: Paladins received a long-awaited spell, Righteous Defense (a long-range, mass taunt-like ability, like the Death Knight's Dark Command); and Shamans received the spell Bloodlust (a long-cooldown, powerful buff) to complement their DPS and utility roles.
Man there are some things that I remember being classic wow that were really TBC stuff.
Righteous Defense and Meeting stones actually being able to summon people felt 100% were things that were there in vanilla... but nope, TBC additions. I kind of almost want them modify classic wow a tiny bit and add things like the meeting stone being used for summoning. I know the purists would hate that, but eh.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
That's why I honestly don't think I will ever play on the WoW Classic server. I am not a purist, and the more pure the vanilla experience is, the less fun it will be (to me).
I'd rather have a ton of QoL changes brought in.
And more importantly than QoL, I'd like to see class balance adjustments.
Keep the original vanilla talent trees and specs, with all their skills and such. But adjust numbers and variables so that more than warriors are viable tanks, more than priests are viable main healers, and so forth.
Basically, I'd love to see a WoW classic, in which all the original classes have viable specs. Also, I don't remember when free respecs were added but I definitely am not interested in paying 200 gold every time I want to change my spec. Ugh.
It’ll probably be bad when it’s new, and gradually simmer to a decent community when the population narrows to the people that actually want to be there
Once people realize that the community will remember them being dickwads they will eventually just peace out or roll new toons to get a better chance.
I don’t know why everyone says this, but this hardly ever actually happened in vanilla. It’s an urban legend.
It’ll probably be bad when it’s new, and gradually simmer to a decent community when the population narrows to the people that actually want to be there
Once people realize that the community will remember them being dickwads they will eventually just peace out or roll new toons to get a better chance.
I don’t know why everyone says this, but this hardly ever actually happened in vanilla. It’s an urban legend.
you totally can roll a new toon. and spend 2months grinding to 60 again. and worry that your speech mannerisms can and do fingerprint onto digital characters.
people did it, but they were locked from the 60 community while they leveled a new persona.
It’ll probably be bad when it’s new, and gradually simmer to a decent community when the population narrows to the people that actually want to be there
Once people realize that the community will remember them being dickwads they will eventually just peace out or roll new toons to get a better chance.
I don’t know why everyone says this, but this hardly ever actually happened in vanilla. It’s an urban legend.
you totally can roll a new toon. and spend 2months grinding to 60 again. and worry that your speech mannerisms can and do fingerprint onto digital characters.
people did it, but they were locked from the 60 community while they leveled a new persona.
Yup someone had to leave our server because his reputation as a shitead in heroics made it impossible for him to even find normal dungeons to do with people.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
That's why I honestly don't think I will ever play on the WoW Classic server. I am not a purist, and the more pure the vanilla experience is, the less fun it will be (to me).
I'd rather have a ton of QoL changes brought in.
And more importantly than QoL, I'd like to see class balance adjustments.
Keep the original vanilla talent trees and specs, with all their skills and such. But adjust numbers and variables so that more than warriors are viable tanks, more than priests are viable main healers, and so forth.
Basically, I'd love to see a WoW classic, in which all the original classes have viable specs. Also, I don't remember when free respecs were added but I definitely am not interested in paying 200 gold every time I want to change my spec. Ugh.
I'd really like to see seasons like how Diablo works. Work your way through classic->BC->Wrath and then it resets (because fuck the later expansions).
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
0
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
It’ll probably be bad when it’s new, and gradually simmer to a decent community when the population narrows to the people that actually want to be there
Once people realize that the community will remember them being dickwads they will eventually just peace out or roll new toons to get a better chance.
I don’t know why everyone says this, but this hardly ever actually happened in vanilla. It’s an urban legend.
It was absolutely a thing on my server.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
+7
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
It’ll probably be bad when it’s new, and gradually simmer to a decent community when the population narrows to the people that actually want to be there
Once people realize that the community will remember them being dickwads they will eventually just peace out or roll new toons to get a better chance.
I don’t know why everyone says this, but this hardly ever actually happened in vanilla. It’s an urban legend.
It was absolutely a thing on my server.
Then perhaps your server had an above average amount of geese on it.
Speaking of personal reputations, the flexing between rival top guilds was always pretty funny.
We used to post server first kill screenshots where everyone is saying something to insult a rival guild leader.
And the rivalries between top organized PVP groups, like WSG 10's focused around someone grinding out rank 14. Those were a lot of fun as long as you weren't the one actually trying for High Warlord.
It’ll probably be bad when it’s new, and gradually simmer to a decent community when the population narrows to the people that actually want to be there
Once people realize that the community will remember them being dickwads they will eventually just peace out or roll new toons to get a better chance.
I don’t know why everyone says this, but this hardly ever actually happened in vanilla. It’s an urban legend.
It was absolutely a thing on my server.
Then perhaps your server had an above average amount of geese on it.
Hi have you played wow before?
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
That's why I honestly don't think I will ever play on the WoW Classic server. I am not a purist, and the more pure the vanilla experience is, the less fun it will be (to me).
I'd rather have a ton of QoL changes brought in.
I agree, but the problem is that you can ask a thousand players what QoL changes should be made, and you'll get a thousand different answers.
The only constant is that everyone wants to play Classic in some form. So the best approach is to recreate it faithfully, then see what kind of community springs up around the game, and adjust things through continual development over time once they have a better idea what the playerbase wants.
That's the approach that was taken with Old School RuneScape and it worked very well.
+3
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I don't know if I saw it mentioned, but the thing about Windfury VS Tranquil is that a tank could also increase threat gen with a WF totem, which could give all dps a bigger window too.
I think free autos on most warrior tanks would add a ton of threat, both from autos being a lot of their damage and the added rage.
That's why I honestly don't think I will ever play on the WoW Classic server. I am not a purist, and the more pure the vanilla experience is, the less fun it will be (to me).
I'd rather have a ton of QoL changes brought in.
I agree, but the problem is that you can ask a thousand players what QoL changes should be made, and you'll get a thousand different answers.
The only constant is that everyone wants to play Classic in some form. So the best approach is to recreate it faithfully, then see what kind of community springs up around the game, and adjust things through continual development over time once they have a better idea what the playerbase wants.
That's the approach that was taken with Old School RuneScape and it worked very well.
Yeah and at the end of the day, there's always the option just play the live servers. Classic basically is the tedium. A lot of the things people remember and liked about classic is all of the tedious little shit. Like waiting for boats, running to dungeons, fighting over herbs/ore, take a shit, shower, and get food length flight paths, the necessity of making friends in a guild to get raid gear, doing strat runs to get people crusader enchants/righteous orbs. There are a ton of things that made people have to go out and do things and interact with the world. I dont think wow ever really recovered from the garrison debacle where you could do all the meaningful content in the expansion from your garrison. World quests tried to get people back out into the world, but they stop mattering as soon as you get to around 325 ilvl, and get your reps maxed out. In vanilla, potions require mats from obscure mobs, and herbs from low level zones. And there was competition for herbs, so you either had to fight for them, or go to a limited number of other zones that had whichever herb you needed. People actually used bandages, so there was always a market for cloth because people needed to level first aid.
Theyve really only said there will be a few QoL improvements, and even as a mostly no change person, things like being able to trade loot is a good addition because shit happens. Im curious how theyre going to limit what addons can and cant do.
Also, as far as the alliance having it easier train of thought. World first ragnaros, onyxia, cthun, and kelthuzad were all horde, the only one alliance got was nefarion.
All this talk about racials and Salv being a boon to Alliance reminded me that Priests had racials back then too, with Dwarves' racial, Fear Ward, being another reason why Alliance had things slightly easier than Horde while raiding.
Well it was the pressure and curiousity I had that made me play a priest 9 times before my blood elf
Just how the eye alluded me in MC I will be making a priest just to get Benediction/Anathema just to get it
I know the drama and such will still be there but there is the hope since much of the player base has matured {lawl} it will not be as bad as it was
That's why I honestly don't think I will ever play on the WoW Classic server. I am not a purist, and the more pure the vanilla experience is, the less fun it will be (to me).
I'd rather have a ton of QoL changes brought in.
I agree, but the problem is that you can ask a thousand players what QoL changes should be made, and you'll get a thousand different answers.
The only constant is that everyone wants to play Classic in some form. So the best approach is to recreate it faithfully, then see what kind of community springs up around the game, and adjust things through continual development over time once they have a better idea what the playerbase wants.
That's the approach that was taken with Old School RuneScape and it worked very well.
Yeah and at the end of the day, there's always the option just play the live servers. Classic basically is the tedium. A lot of the things people remember and liked about classic is all of the tedious little shit. Like waiting for boats, running to dungeons, fighting over herbs/ore, take a shit, shower, and get food length flight paths, the necessity of making friends in a guild to get raid gear, doing strat runs to get people crusader enchants/righteous orbs. There are a ton of things that made people have to go out and do things and interact with the world. I dont think wow ever really recovered from the garrison debacle where you could do all the meaningful content in the expansion from your garrison. World quests tried to get people back out into the world, but they stop mattering as soon as you get to around 325 ilvl, and get your reps maxed out. In vanilla, potions require mats from obscure mobs, and herbs from low level zones. And there was competition for herbs, so you either had to fight for them, or go to a limited number of other zones that had whichever herb you needed. People actually used bandages, so there was always a market for cloth because people needed to level first aid.
Theyve really only said there will be a few QoL improvements, and even as a mostly no change person, things like being able to trade loot is a good addition because shit happens. Im curious how theyre going to limit what addons can and cant do.
Also, as far as the alliance having it easier train of thought. World first ragnaros, onyxia, cthun, and kelthuzad were all horde, the only one alliance got was nefarion.
these two points right here, and my reminiscence about being an MC geared out warrior running pugs through scholomance because that was the only alchemy table available outside of BWL. For a while, everyone knew about that crazy warrior *alchemist* that ran scholo for the table and for scourgestones before scourgestones were a thing. You did things for people because you needed things done as well and being able to call up a roster of buddies expedited that.
Also, running pugs through scholo meant that I could basically do secret try outs for guild recruitment and put in recommendations to the guild boss on new talent with the proper mindset and attitude that would gel well for raiding. didn't have a lot of warrior recruits from that, but we had like 6 or 7 warriors that were always 98+% attendance. it was the dps and healer types we were short on at times.... we ran 8 druids when we first started raiding because we only had 3 priests and 3 shaman that would show up regularly to raid.
I thought about battle shout, but both sides have access to battle shout, so that's hardly a comparison.
The part I was missing was that I forgot that it's much easier to give your DPS multiple Paladin buffs vs multiple Shaman totems. Salvation and Might together don't require you to put two paladins into the melee group, the way Tranquil air and windfury would require two shamans. Since Horde don't get Might at all, Windfury and Might (I assume) largely cancel out and Salvation is just gravy on top.
Yep, basically. I THINK between Strength of Earth and Windfury and Might it's all basically a wash-ish, though SoE conflicts with Earthbind or Tremor, so isn't guaranteed to exist.
Add on that now your DPS casters can have an aggro reduction without needing to burn a slot THERE on a Shaman as well, and it's even better. (Nobody's bringing 8 Shaman, and your tank groups, melee groups, ranged/hunter group, and healer groups need them, unless healers can get by with just SPriests.)
I can't remember; when did they make the melee/tank base aggro changes? "Ages ago", but I want to say Wrath sometime.
dont forget that a lot of the later content was very very mobile (osirus comes to fore, as well as cthun. totems tend to be static with their buffs. paladin buffs. ding here you go, do whatever.
Posts
The bigger issue was that a lot of Shaman utility overlapped because good buffs competed for totem spots. Windfury, for example, uses the Air totem. So does Tranquil Air. And by the way, so does Grace of Air, and I believe Nature Resistance. So Horde groups could have 1 of those things at a time, basically; we had to choose between Windfury / Grace and Tranquil Air, offense or defense. Paladins just hit everyone in the Raid with Greater Blessings of Salvation and Might and were done with it. We also had to deal with it on the Water totem end, with Mana Spring / Tide competing with Fire Protection. Again, all the Alliance had to do was pop Greater Blessing of Wisdom and activate Fire Resistance Aura. Yeah, sure, the Aura only affected that Paladin's group, but Shaman Fire Resistance totems were on the same boat.
I wish I could talk about this longer, but I have to leave for work. End of the day? Yeah, Alliance had a huge PvE advantage in Vanilla WoW and it's not really something people can honestly still debate. It would be like debating that the Horde didn't have a massive advantage in Vanilla PvP with OG Orc stun resistance and Will of the Forsaken and shit -- there's no point arguing, it's a measurable fact.
But really. Even with all the advantages Alliance had in PVE, Horde never had any problem at all clearing content. I raided on both sides of the fence in vanilla, and Horde was never at a serious disadvantage.
Really, the biggest determining factor in a raid was how much of your 40 people were pulling their weight and how much were being carried. A full raid of 40 people who all carried their own weight could easily smash any content in vanilla. Those raids were easy, and they were designed around a large portion of the raid being useless.
In TBC the Alliance got Bloodlust when Shaman were added to Draenei.
Once people realize that the community will remember them being dickwads they will eventually just peace out or roll new toons to get a better chance.
This is another reason why, on a vast majority of servers, Alliance had the advantage in Vanilla. There was a massive population imbalance in Classic, which stemmed from a number of sources, and continued until the Horde got Blood Elves and Paladins in BC. When you have more people, you can afford to be a lot more choosey with regard to who you brought along to a raid. My raid had an absolute ton of dead weight. I'm sure every raid did. But the fact is, there were times when I'd log over to Alliance and see they had more level 60 NE Hunters online in the evening than the Horde had level 60 characters, period. That's a huge advantage, because Alliance could take the right people and we had to take whoever we could find.
But on top of that, yeah, Alliance still had a massive advantage in end-game PvE content. Horde could do it, sure. We DID do it, but we often did it server second (all except Hakkar on Feathermoon, as I recall) and the Alliance rubbed our fucking noses in it every day. To the extent that it's literally still a sore subject lol.
i quit during mid BC, but the best moment in the game was when lice *finally* got ahold of shaman after bitching and moaning that frost shock solved everything... and threw a tantrum that horde got the better end of the class swap deal as well as belf racials and looks compared to russian squidfaces.
the lice on my server finally realized that our shamans were simply 'good' at what they did and what they had to work with.
they had to be or else no one would group with them.
still really fun to suddenly rip agro from the main tank with a windfury assisted shieldslam crit. 2x 2k dmg from a high threat shield attack? i hit harder in that burst than our dps on any single attack at that time... as a prot tank. (yes they still left me in the dust over time, point was, i could one shot someone in pvp with with a shield when those stars aligned, and it was glorious.)
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Seems so much harder than just saying ally.
But it's more condescending. :rotate:
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
I don't remember it being a 10% drop rate for the gems (for the key, maybe). Running it as a 5 man, we got all the drops we needed with one kill, but that could just be poor memory....although you're right, we had specific people with keys.
What I *DO* remember, though, was our guild solving this issue by running LBRS and UBRS with 30 man raids and just having people who needed the gems leave the raid as the target was about to die (and rejoin after they looted, but before the minute timer ran out).
We got our people all attuned in no time. ALSO, it was a blast, as we'd have 100 gold guild bets awarded to the person who could successfully wipe the raid. Someone almost managed to pull it off in UBRS by shooting down at the orcs in a camp just before we went to fight Rend. A massive train showed up probably a full minute after he aggro'd the orcs.
****
WoW classic thoughts. It was great, loved it on my Warrior. That being said, I made a Troll to check, and the Troll did not have his "Kill two dwarfs" song. I was....sad.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Tank pulls, Drak chased him to the bridge, and the tank dives off. Drak then IMMEDIATELY turns toward the rest of us, I don't know if it was healing aggro or what, but he turned and ran at us and meanwhile our tank was down in fucking LBRS. It was a disaster but it was also hilarious. I miss that shit.
I disagree, and so does WoW Wiki:
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/World_of_Warcraft:_The_Burning_Crusade
Righteous Defense and Meeting stones actually being able to summon people felt 100% were things that were there in vanilla... but nope, TBC additions. I kind of almost want them modify classic wow a tiny bit and add things like the meeting stone being used for summoning. I know the purists would hate that, but eh.
I'd rather have a ton of QoL changes brought in.
And more importantly than QoL, I'd like to see class balance adjustments.
Keep the original vanilla talent trees and specs, with all their skills and such. But adjust numbers and variables so that more than warriors are viable tanks, more than priests are viable main healers, and so forth.
Basically, I'd love to see a WoW classic, in which all the original classes have viable specs. Also, I don't remember when free respecs were added but I definitely am not interested in paying 200 gold every time I want to change my spec. Ugh.
I don’t know why everyone says this, but this hardly ever actually happened in vanilla. It’s an urban legend.
you totally can roll a new toon. and spend 2months grinding to 60 again. and worry that your speech mannerisms can and do fingerprint onto digital characters.
people did it, but they were locked from the 60 community while they leveled a new persona.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Yup someone had to leave our server because his reputation as a shitead in heroics made it impossible for him to even find normal dungeons to do with people.
I'd really like to see seasons like how Diablo works. Work your way through classic->BC->Wrath and then it resets (because fuck the later expansions).
It was absolutely a thing on my server.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Then perhaps your server had an above average amount of geese on it.
We used to post server first kill screenshots where everyone is saying something to insult a rival guild leader.
And the rivalries between top organized PVP groups, like WSG 10's focused around someone grinding out rank 14. Those were a lot of fun as long as you weren't the one actually trying for High Warlord.
Hi have you played wow before?
We'd play against an Alliance PvP guild that did the same.
When we weren't versus them, we were cruising to 7 minute complete tower victories in Alterac Valley in vanilla.
When we were versus them, it was 40 vs 40 AVs with actual teams instead of randoms and it was the best PvP I've ever experienced in WoW.
.....maybe I should look up some new PvP guilds.
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I agree, but the problem is that you can ask a thousand players what QoL changes should be made, and you'll get a thousand different answers.
The only constant is that everyone wants to play Classic in some form. So the best approach is to recreate it faithfully, then see what kind of community springs up around the game, and adjust things through continual development over time once they have a better idea what the playerbase wants.
That's the approach that was taken with Old School RuneScape and it worked very well.
I think free autos on most warrior tanks would add a ton of threat, both from autos being a lot of their damage and the added rage.
Yeah and at the end of the day, there's always the option just play the live servers. Classic basically is the tedium. A lot of the things people remember and liked about classic is all of the tedious little shit. Like waiting for boats, running to dungeons, fighting over herbs/ore, take a shit, shower, and get food length flight paths, the necessity of making friends in a guild to get raid gear, doing strat runs to get people crusader enchants/righteous orbs. There are a ton of things that made people have to go out and do things and interact with the world. I dont think wow ever really recovered from the garrison debacle where you could do all the meaningful content in the expansion from your garrison. World quests tried to get people back out into the world, but they stop mattering as soon as you get to around 325 ilvl, and get your reps maxed out. In vanilla, potions require mats from obscure mobs, and herbs from low level zones. And there was competition for herbs, so you either had to fight for them, or go to a limited number of other zones that had whichever herb you needed. People actually used bandages, so there was always a market for cloth because people needed to level first aid.
Theyve really only said there will be a few QoL improvements, and even as a mostly no change person, things like being able to trade loot is a good addition because shit happens. Im curious how theyre going to limit what addons can and cant do.
Also, as far as the alliance having it easier train of thought. World first ragnaros, onyxia, cthun, and kelthuzad were all horde, the only one alliance got was nefarion.
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Well it was the pressure and curiousity I had that made me play a priest 9 times before my blood elf
Just how the eye alluded me in MC I will be making a priest just to get Benediction/Anathema just to get it
I know the drama and such will still be there but there is the hope since much of the player base has matured {lawl} it will not be as bad as it was
Will of the Forsaken was the closest you got to Fear Ward.
Or the Stamina fetish of being a Tauren
these two points right here, and my reminiscence about being an MC geared out warrior running pugs through scholomance because that was the only alchemy table available outside of BWL. For a while, everyone knew about that crazy warrior *alchemist* that ran scholo for the table and for scourgestones before scourgestones were a thing. You did things for people because you needed things done as well and being able to call up a roster of buddies expedited that.
Also, running pugs through scholo meant that I could basically do secret try outs for guild recruitment and put in recommendations to the guild boss on new talent with the proper mindset and attitude that would gel well for raiding. didn't have a lot of warrior recruits from that, but we had like 6 or 7 warriors that were always 98+% attendance. it was the dps and healer types we were short on at times.... we ran 8 druids when we first started raiding because we only had 3 priests and 3 shaman that would show up regularly to raid.
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Yep, basically. I THINK between Strength of Earth and Windfury and Might it's all basically a wash-ish, though SoE conflicts with Earthbind or Tremor, so isn't guaranteed to exist.
Add on that now your DPS casters can have an aggro reduction without needing to burn a slot THERE on a Shaman as well, and it's even better. (Nobody's bringing 8 Shaman, and your tank groups, melee groups, ranged/hunter group, and healer groups need them, unless healers can get by with just SPriests.)
I can't remember; when did they make the melee/tank base aggro changes? "Ages ago", but I want to say Wrath sometime.
In BFA it got nerfed a good chunk, mostly to make AoE tanking require a bit more thought than spamming AoE.
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